355 | Improving Sleep Quality and Quantity to Kick Insomnia with Devin Burke

[00:00:05] Welcome to the Optimal Body Podcast. I'm Dr. Jen, and I'm Dr. Dom, and we are Doctors of

[00:00:10] Physical Therapy bringing you the body tips and physical therapy pearls of wisdom to help

[00:00:14] you begin to understand your body, relieve your pains and restrictions, and answer your

[00:00:19] questions. Along with expert guests, our goal of the Optimal Body Podcast is really

[00:00:23] to help you discover what optimal means within your own body. Let's dive in!

[00:00:29] Before we get into sleep, which is obviously so incredibly important and it sets our

[00:00:33] foundation for our entire day with how our brain is going to work, with how we're

[00:00:37] going to feel within our body. But our feet are also our foundation to help us

[00:00:43] feel better from our ankles, our knees, our hips, our low back. It all plays a role

[00:00:48] at the chain based on how we're moving down at our feet. And traditionally

[00:00:52] we've been told we need more structure, we need more arch support, we need more

[00:00:55] on our feet to help support it. But the reality is we need more mobility,

[00:01:00] we need more strength, we need more control, feedback and feeling within our

[00:01:05] feet to be able to play a role up the chain of our body. And this is what

[00:01:09] Vivo Barefoot Shoes does. This is why we talk about it. This is why we've been

[00:01:13] wearing them for what five years now I think. This is why our little boy is

[00:01:17] wearing them because we trust that we trust what they're doing for your

[00:01:21] feet because we are taking away the structure. One of the number one

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[00:01:32] have a wide toe area, not just toe box, but the natural toe area for your big

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[00:01:42] spread allows for increased activation at the bottom of your foot to help

[00:01:46] improve that strength and stability. Without that spread of the toes,

[00:01:50] without that mobility of the foot, we lose the strength and stability. And

[00:01:54] this is why getting yourself in Vivo Barefoot Shoes is so important. So you

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[00:02:12] optimal dash body. That's the optimal body for Vivo Barefoot Shoes. You're

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[00:02:19] at checkout, but snag yourself either a new pair of shoes or another pair

[00:02:24] of shoes, whether it's hiking and getting out for the beautiful weather.

[00:02:26] That's coming up. Our next guest, Devin Burke, as recognized as one of the top

[00:02:30] 10 coaches of 2023 in the United States is a TEDx speaker, bestselling

[00:02:35] author, renowned sleep coach, and is the founder of the Sleep Science

[00:02:39] Academy. His company is dedicated to helping people stop suffering and

[00:02:43] start sleeping using a unique holistic approach called Dynamic Sleep

[00:02:47] Recalibrating. Additionally, Devin has earned recognition as one of the

[00:02:51] top 25 health coaches in America at over 100,000 plus other coaches for

[00:02:57] his innovative methods and results. Devin is on a mission to help the 40

[00:03:02] million people who suffer from poor sleep by sharing the tools and

[00:03:06] techniques they need to stop suffering and start sleeping as quickly as

[00:03:10] possible. He helps people learn how optimizing sleep is truly the

[00:03:14] missing link to unlocking the incredible potential of their bodies

[00:03:18] and their minds. Devin firmly believes that providing our bodies with the

[00:03:22] right conditions enables healing, and he advocates that small consistent

[00:03:26] choices yield substantial enduring results. He is also the author of The

[00:03:31] Sleep Advantage, a book that isn't just about sleep, but a roadmap for

[00:03:34] generating effortless energy to live with more passion, power and

[00:03:38] presence. I know this interview is going to help a lot of people. So

[00:03:41] let's get into it.

[00:03:43] Devin, thank you so much for taking some time to chat with us about

[00:03:46] sleep. This is a really big topic and I honestly don't think we've had

[00:03:50] anyone specifically, like people say, oh yeah, you need to get sleep. But

[00:03:54] like what does that mean? And how does that look? Because it impacts

[00:03:57] so many people who cannot get good sleep or feel rested the next day. So

[00:04:03] I'm really excited for this.

[00:04:05] I'm excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.

[00:04:07] I think the crazy thing is, I mean, when we talk about any aspect of

[00:04:11] health, sleep comes up as something that is of vital importance for

[00:04:16] optimization in almost any area of health. So what initially

[00:04:20] attracted you to the field of optimization of sleep? Were you

[00:04:25] someone who had sleep issues yourself or just interested in the area

[00:04:29] of study?

[00:04:29] Yeah, so funny enough, I'm actually an incredible sleeper. Like my

[00:04:33] family used to kid around and call it like call me narco,

[00:04:37] short for narcoleptic, because I could literally sleep anywhere. And

[00:04:42] I didn't realize how much of a gift that was until I started to

[00:04:45] study sleep and realize how big of an issue it is for so many

[00:04:48] people and how important it is for every aspect of our health. And

[00:04:53] a lot of really

[00:04:56] Okay, interrupting really quickly to let you guys in on a little

[00:04:59] secret actually this very vulnerable for me right now. But

[00:05:04] we are trying for baby number two.

[00:05:07] Growing the fam.

[00:05:08] It's just very exciting. And so I'm back on taking prenatals

[00:05:12] again and being very consistent with China be more conscious

[00:05:16] than aware of the supplements that I'm putting in my body. And,

[00:05:20] you know, we actually started looking at this company needed.

[00:05:23] And they have a ton of incredible supplements and actually

[00:05:29] dumb, you're taking some too.

[00:05:31] I'm taking them too. They have male prenatal vitamins as well as

[00:05:34] sperm support. And it's just so important. And we both,

[00:05:38] obviously, you guys know, we focus on what we put in our

[00:05:40] body and make sure we're using high quality things. And that is

[00:05:44] why we're so excited about needed because they don't use any

[00:05:47] unnecessary fillers, they use the highest quality and version of

[00:05:51] the different nutrients in their vitamins. And all of their

[00:05:53] ingredients are sustainably sourced.

[00:05:55] And I made sure I got a sign off from my RD as well. Yeah, to

[00:05:59] make sure is this going to be the best? Because you guys

[00:06:03] know after having a miscarriage, I'm just, and

[00:06:06] obviously I can't say this is why but I'm just so conscious

[00:06:09] and aware of what I put in my body. And I know that needed

[00:06:11] has seven times more colon, which is vital for brain

[00:06:15] development and metabolism six times more vitamin D three to

[00:06:19] support strong immune and bone health and 20 times more vitamin

[00:06:23] B six to enhance energy mood and reduce nausea, which is so

[00:06:27] crucial. And those you know, in that first trimester of

[00:06:31] pregnancy. So this is why I'm taking their prenatal and

[00:06:34] other supplements and I trust their company. And I'm so

[00:06:38] excited that they are now sponsored with us. Yes, all that

[00:06:41] to be say we went out and got them as a sponsor because we had

[00:06:44] been using their supplements for a few months. We absolutely

[00:06:47] love them. And they are giving 20% off to our audience using

[00:06:51] code optimal you can get 20% off any of their supplements any

[00:06:54] of their prenatals for men or for women. So go check out the

[00:06:57] link down in the show notes make sure you use code

[00:06:59] optimal at checkout to get that special 20% off. And then

[00:07:03] we'll head back into the interview.

[00:07:05] And so kind of what led me to get into sleep is other people

[00:07:08] asking me for help. I was working with a lot of entrepreneurs

[00:07:11] and business owners. Most of them as you can imagine, don't

[00:07:14] sleep. They're asking Hey, I don't want to take sleeping

[00:07:17] medications. I want to get off these medications. Is there

[00:07:21] anything you can do? Do you know anyone or is there

[00:07:23] anything you can do to help? And so that kind of set

[00:07:26] me on a journey to kind of dive into sleep. And the more

[00:07:31] I was learning about it, the more interested I got and the

[00:07:34] more I realized that the real it really isn't many good

[00:07:37] solutions for people that are truly struggling with falling

[00:07:41] and staying asleep. And so that kind of set me on this

[00:07:44] journey, this path to really understand sleep, understand

[00:07:48] how it impacts our life, how it impacts our health and

[00:07:51] really how to give people the tools that they're

[00:07:53] missing to naturally restore their ability to sleep.

[00:07:57] Yeah, I mean, that's huge. And it's so funny that you

[00:07:59] say that you can sleep anywhere. I mean, I feel like

[00:08:02] I'm married to that. And I've heard from a lot of women as

[00:08:06] well, where you're like, I lay down and my mind just goes

[00:08:10] million miles. But yet my husband's head hits the

[00:08:13] pillow and they're out.

[00:08:14] I think it's maybe an issue for me on the other end

[00:08:18] where I fall asleep too easily in some places that I

[00:08:22] probably shouldn't and but you know, whole different

[00:08:24] discussion of topic. She struggles to wake me up

[00:08:27] sometimes, you know, that type of thing. I'm sleeping

[00:08:30] so soundly that she has to like kick me in the ribs to

[00:08:33] get me out of bed.

[00:08:35] I think a lot of people wish that they had that issue.

[00:08:37] Yeah, definitely.

[00:08:39] Yeah, I mean, everybody sleeps. Most people don't

[00:08:41] sleep well and the people that do sleep really well.

[00:08:44] It truly is a superpower and it is a gift and it can

[00:08:46] be quite annoying for bed partners when one of their

[00:08:51] you know, their bed partner is like just the sound

[00:08:54] of sleeper and they're up all night, you know,

[00:08:56] trying to figure out how to how to fall asleep or

[00:08:58] how to stay asleep and that comes up actually a

[00:09:01] lot in our coaching is my husband, you know, he

[00:09:04] sleeps so peacefully and I just look at him and

[00:09:07] I wish I could just be like that or her and it's

[00:09:12] kind of interesting. Yeah.

[00:09:13] So I'm sure we'll get into some of how to

[00:09:16] overcome some of that in this conversation.

[00:09:18] Exactly. So first of all, like what exactly

[00:09:22] qualifies insomnia? Like if you're having

[00:09:25] trouble sleeping at what point is it that I

[00:09:27] have insomnia or I'm just having, you know,

[00:09:30] some difficulty in this moment?

[00:09:32] Like how does and how does one develop, you

[00:09:35] know, having insomnia? Is this something that

[00:09:37] we happens over time? Is it just come on?

[00:09:40] Like can you explain it a little bit more?

[00:09:42] Yeah. And I really appreciate the question

[00:09:44] because a lot of people actually have insomnia

[00:09:45] and they don't even realize it and there's

[00:09:47] different classifications. So as far as

[00:09:50] duration goes, everyone at some point in their

[00:09:53] life experienced some type of insomnia.

[00:09:55] Usually it doesn't become acute or chronic.

[00:09:58] And so transient insomnia is a couple of

[00:10:01] nights, you know, you're having issues a

[00:10:03] couple of nights, maybe you're going

[00:10:04] through a stressful times, someone in your

[00:10:06] life has passed away. It's a couple of

[00:10:08] nights where your sleep gets thrown off

[00:10:10] and then it gets restabilized. And then

[00:10:12] if that pattern continues for a couple of

[00:10:15] weeks, then that's considered acute

[00:10:18] insomnia. And then if it continues

[00:10:20] past three months, then it's considered

[00:10:23] chronic insomnia. So those are sort of

[00:10:24] the three different classifications of

[00:10:27] duration of time. And then there's

[00:10:29] different types of insomnia. So some

[00:10:31] people have trouble falling asleep,

[00:10:34] that's called onset insomnia. Some

[00:10:36] people have trouble staying asleep,

[00:10:38] which is called maintenance insomnia.

[00:10:40] And some people have both. So it

[00:10:43] kind of goes and it can come, it can

[00:10:45] come in waves for some people. So some

[00:10:47] people, you know, at first it kind

[00:10:49] of presents itself as trouble falling

[00:10:50] asleep, then it kind of switches to

[00:10:52] trouble staying asleep. So it kind of,

[00:10:56] and how it happens, it can happen

[00:10:59] for a number of reasons. Like I said,

[00:11:01] it could be a stressful event in

[00:11:02] someone's life. It could be a reaction

[00:11:04] to a medication. It could be another

[00:11:08] health condition that's going on

[00:11:09] underlying health condition. Often

[00:11:12] it's stress and anxiety. It's people

[00:11:14] that don't understand how to really

[00:11:16] process emotion or understand how to

[00:11:19] allow the body to express

[00:11:22] itself in a way that's healthy.

[00:11:24] That suppression can then create

[00:11:26] tension and pressure and lead to

[00:11:27] insomnia. So there's a lot of ways

[00:11:29] in which people, you know, become

[00:11:33] insomnia hex. But the good news is

[00:11:35] really the way to solve it is the

[00:11:37] same. So but that does that clarify

[00:11:41] the different classifications and

[00:11:43] sort of how someone can fall into

[00:11:45] those different buckets?

[00:11:46] Absolutely. I mean, I really think

[00:11:48] you kind of unfolded the pandora

[00:11:50] box of insomnia because it's just

[00:11:52] this term that everyone will throw

[00:11:54] out. I'm an insomniac or I have

[00:11:56] insomnia and really the different

[00:11:59] classifications, the time

[00:12:01] determinant classifications, whether

[00:12:03] it's acute or a more chronic or

[00:12:05] persistent condition and the trouble

[00:12:08] is falling asleep versus trouble

[00:12:09] staying asleep. I think that's

[00:12:10] really important to know. I think

[00:12:12] another important thing to explain

[00:12:15] a little bit more of is like our

[00:12:17] brain should be doing some pretty

[00:12:18] specific things when we're winding

[00:12:21] down for sleep. And I think that

[00:12:23] this is where when we're trying to

[00:12:25] address the root cause of insomnia

[00:12:27] and if I say anything wrong, you can

[00:12:29] of course tell me no, you're full of

[00:12:31] it or you're just making this up.

[00:12:32] But when we're trying to address

[00:12:34] the root cause, I'm guessing we're

[00:12:36] trying to address a little bit of

[00:12:37] what the brain is doing in these

[00:12:39] moments of having difficulties going

[00:12:41] to sleep or difficulties staying asleep.

[00:12:45] Could you explain a little bit of

[00:12:46] what our brain should be doing as

[00:12:48] we're gearing up for a good

[00:12:50] restful night's sleep?

[00:12:51] Yeah, it's really it's really the

[00:12:53] brain and the body. And I always

[00:12:55] tell our clients, you know, great

[00:12:57] night of sleep actually starts as

[00:12:58] soon as you wake up because literally

[00:13:00] everything throughout the entire

[00:13:02] day what you do, what you decide not

[00:13:03] to do dictates kind of sets your

[00:13:06] body and mind up for a nice

[00:13:09] peaceful relaxing sleep or one that's

[00:13:12] full of tossing and turning

[00:13:13] frustration, fitful sleep.

[00:13:16] And so, you know, throughout the day,

[00:13:19] I always I kind of explain it.

[00:13:20] I give this a balloon analogy where

[00:13:22] our bodies are constantly

[00:13:24] being filled up with air and that

[00:13:27] air is pressure or tension or some

[00:13:29] people can call it stress.

[00:13:30] And it doesn't it's not necessarily

[00:13:32] always from negative sources.

[00:13:34] You could be really excited about

[00:13:35] something you're working on.

[00:13:36] You could just be having a lot

[00:13:37] going on in your life.

[00:13:38] That's amazing.

[00:13:39] But it's it takes attention.

[00:13:41] It takes focus.

[00:13:42] It takes energy.

[00:13:44] And if we don't offset that balloon,

[00:13:46] if we don't let a little air out of

[00:13:47] that balloon throughout the day,

[00:13:49] then the balloon is so filled up

[00:13:50] of air that it creates strange

[00:13:53] things like a racing mind.

[00:13:54] It creates tension and pressure in

[00:13:56] the body. It creates tightness,

[00:13:57] constriction, contraction, hyper

[00:13:59] arousal, this sort of

[00:14:02] sense that something's not right.

[00:14:03] And what that causes is

[00:14:06] then the body having a hard time

[00:14:07] doing the most natural thing in the

[00:14:09] entire world, which is falling

[00:14:11] asleep. I mean, it's so natural.

[00:14:13] We were born to sleep.

[00:14:15] You don't think about it just like

[00:14:16] your heart beats, you don't think

[00:14:17] about that your hair grows, your

[00:14:19] nails grow, you don't think about

[00:14:20] that. It just happens.

[00:14:21] Sleeps the same way.

[00:14:22] So if it's not happening, there's

[00:14:23] something in what we're how we're

[00:14:25] thinking or how we're behaving

[00:14:26] or usually both that is keeping

[00:14:29] the body in this sort of

[00:14:30] hyper aroused loop that then

[00:14:32] keeps the mind from being

[00:14:34] you know, being able to just

[00:14:35] sort of let go and let sleep

[00:14:37] happen or not.

[00:14:40] Does that make sense?

[00:14:40] Mm hmm. And what is, you know, kind

[00:14:43] of the biggest mistake you feel like

[00:14:45] people are making to fix

[00:14:48] this and just be able

[00:14:50] to get to sleep?

[00:14:52] Yeah, there's really there's really

[00:14:53] three big ones.

[00:14:55] The first one is

[00:14:58] people try to force and control

[00:15:00] sleep and sleep.

[00:15:02] It's it's not something you can

[00:15:03] control or force.

[00:15:05] And so it gets a little bit tricky

[00:15:06] because you'll hear a lot of people

[00:15:07] say, hey, let's clean up your

[00:15:09] sleep hygiene. Let's put in,

[00:15:10] you know, place routine or get you

[00:15:12] on some good supplements or

[00:15:14] do anything to kind of set

[00:15:16] sleep up.

[00:15:17] And what can happen is people

[00:15:19] sort of put all this

[00:15:21] pressure on sleep. They put it on a

[00:15:23] pedestal and they see it as

[00:15:25] a problem.

[00:15:26] And it's not a problem. It's just

[00:15:27] it's a result.

[00:15:28] And then people do things

[00:15:30] so that they sleep.

[00:15:32] And if you're doing anything to

[00:15:33] sleep, there's this expectation

[00:15:35] of I'm going to do this and then

[00:15:37] I'm going to sleep. And that's a

[00:15:38] subtle way of trying to force

[00:15:39] control something we have no

[00:15:41] control of.

[00:15:42] And it can be a little bit tricky

[00:15:44] because there is a fine line

[00:15:45] between, hey, let's have some

[00:15:47] healthy behaviors around, you know,

[00:15:49] technology and let's, you know,

[00:15:50] separate our day from our night

[00:15:52] so that we're not carrying all

[00:15:53] that stuff into the bed with

[00:15:54] us.

[00:15:56] But what I found, at least in

[00:15:57] the work that I do is a lot of

[00:15:58] people, they're trying

[00:16:00] to sleep and sleep

[00:16:02] is something that happens.

[00:16:03] You can't really

[00:16:05] trying to sleep is actually the

[00:16:07] last thing you want to do.

[00:16:08] You want to let sleep happen.

[00:16:09] And it kind of sounds like a

[00:16:10] semantic sort of flip,

[00:16:12] but it really is helpful for

[00:16:14] people to get that and understand

[00:16:15] it because it just allows

[00:16:17] the body to get into a state

[00:16:19] where sleep can happen.

[00:16:21] I'm not sure if that's if I

[00:16:22] explain that clear, but

[00:16:24] yeah, it makes sense.

[00:16:25] I mean, that sounds like taking

[00:16:26] off some of the pressure that

[00:16:28] you talked about before, you

[00:16:29] know, letting some of that air

[00:16:30] out rather than building upon

[00:16:32] it and putting a pressure

[00:16:33] even more so of trying to

[00:16:35] force something that's already

[00:16:37] not happening.

[00:16:37] I think it's important, like you

[00:16:39] mentioned, sleep hygiene isn't

[00:16:41] done in order so you can

[00:16:43] go to sleep at 10 p.m.

[00:16:44] every night.

[00:16:45] It's something that

[00:16:47] you need to have a little more

[00:16:48] caution around the expectations

[00:16:49] that come with setting up the

[00:16:51] routine or doing some of those

[00:16:53] behaviors that you mentioned

[00:16:54] that

[00:16:55] happen throughout the day

[00:16:56] could help sleep happen.

[00:16:58] 100 percent.

[00:16:59] I love the language that you're

[00:17:00] using because it's really

[00:17:01] important to kind of frame

[00:17:04] it like that.

[00:17:05] I mean, the other mistake

[00:17:06] kind of leads me right into it.

[00:17:07] It's spending too much time in

[00:17:08] bed.

[00:17:09] So and this is really

[00:17:10] paradoxical.

[00:17:11] It's very counterintuitive.

[00:17:12] Most people think, well, if I'm

[00:17:14] not sleeping well, I should

[00:17:15] spend more time in bed

[00:17:16] and you really should be doing

[00:17:17] the exact opposite of that.

[00:17:21] And the reason for that

[00:17:23] is that if you're in bed

[00:17:24] and you're not sleeping,

[00:17:26] then you're anchoring the

[00:17:27] bed with either frustration

[00:17:30] or tossing and turning or

[00:17:31] fitful sleep or a racing

[00:17:33] mind or anxiety or

[00:17:35] whatever you want to call it.

[00:17:37] And that's the last thing we

[00:17:38] want to do is anchor our bed

[00:17:40] with some type of racing

[00:17:42] mind, racing heart, tossing

[00:17:44] or turning, frustration, anger.

[00:17:47] So if you actually spend less

[00:17:49] time in bed, what that does

[00:17:50] is going to increase your sleep

[00:17:51] efficiency, which is your time

[00:17:53] in bed asleep and it'll allow

[00:17:56] your body to then get the sleep.

[00:17:58] Most people think, well, if I'm

[00:18:00] not in bed, well, then there's

[00:18:02] no chance I'm going to be able

[00:18:03] to sleep.

[00:18:04] And again, it's it makes logical

[00:18:06] sense, like that's true.

[00:18:08] And what I found that when

[00:18:10] people spend less time in bed

[00:18:11] and they do it in the right way,

[00:18:13] it actually then helps them

[00:18:15] sleep more when they're in bed.

[00:18:17] And there's some nuance there

[00:18:19] and there's some strategy

[00:18:20] involved in what I just said,

[00:18:21] but it makes a huge, huge

[00:18:22] difference when people execute

[00:18:24] that strategy correctly.

[00:18:26] I mean, it makes sense to me,

[00:18:27] especially Dom will get mad

[00:18:30] at me too if I, you know,

[00:18:32] just want to do a little work in

[00:18:33] bed. It's like, again, that

[00:18:36] association of what I'm doing in

[00:18:38] bed and what that what that's

[00:18:41] setting up for me mentally as

[00:18:42] well, rather than just being the

[00:18:44] place that I sleep.

[00:18:46] Well, and I'm not innocent

[00:18:48] either. I'm on my phone almost

[00:18:50] every night in bed like and

[00:18:52] that I mean, that brings up an

[00:18:54] important question. All of this

[00:18:56] stuff around sleep hygiene.

[00:18:57] And you even mentioned it

[00:18:59] cleaning, cleaning up screen

[00:19:00] use like what when it

[00:19:02] comes to screens is your

[00:19:04] recommendations in order to

[00:19:06] set up healthy habits around

[00:19:08] our sleep?

[00:19:09] Yeah, it's I mean, this is a

[00:19:10] really interesting question

[00:19:12] because a lot of times people

[00:19:13] think, well, it's the blue

[00:19:14] light from these devices

[00:19:15] that's blocking the melatonin

[00:19:17] faucet. That's creating this.

[00:19:18] But it's actually I found it

[00:19:20] something different. It's

[00:19:21] actually the hyper arousal.

[00:19:23] So it's like when we're on

[00:19:25] our phone, what are we doing?

[00:19:26] We're either on social media,

[00:19:27] we're checking emails, we're

[00:19:28] checking our text messages,

[00:19:30] we're doing something that kind

[00:19:32] of gets the mind active.

[00:19:36] And that's the last thing that

[00:19:38] we want to do in bed, not to

[00:19:40] mention you are getting that

[00:19:41] blue light, which does affect

[00:19:42] melatonin.

[00:19:44] But yeah, I mean, these devices

[00:19:46] it's it's they are the worst

[00:19:48] bed partners.

[00:19:49] They really are TV or a phone

[00:19:51] is the worst bed partner.

[00:19:53] People would just draw strong

[00:19:55] boundaries around their

[00:19:56] technology, their sleep would

[00:19:58] 100 percent improve.

[00:20:00] And I get it.

[00:20:01] It's difficult because these

[00:20:03] things are addicting.

[00:20:04] I mean, the shows are so darn

[00:20:05] good.

[00:20:07] You know, you're watching Yellowstone

[00:20:08] and you're like, oh, I just want to

[00:20:09] watch the next episode in bed

[00:20:10] or whatever it is.

[00:20:12] Or, you know, your your phones

[00:20:13] right next to your your bed

[00:20:15] and you're like, oh, I'm just

[00:20:16] going to pick it up.

[00:20:16] And then the next thing you

[00:20:18] know, you're you're going down

[00:20:19] a rabbit hole.

[00:20:19] I got to watch.

[00:20:21] I got to watch Stephen Colbert's

[00:20:22] monologue, though.

[00:20:24] Exactly.

[00:20:25] That's what I catch it right

[00:20:26] before I go to bed.

[00:20:27] It's just not good.

[00:20:29] And then that becomes a behavior

[00:20:30] pattern.

[00:20:32] And it really is.

[00:20:33] It's it's so common

[00:20:36] and people have a really hard time

[00:20:37] drawing boundary around it.

[00:20:39] So I'm not here to, you know, tell

[00:20:41] you really what to do.

[00:20:42] But what I can say is that if

[00:20:44] you do draw strong boundaries,

[00:20:46] like for me, I'll just kind of

[00:20:47] tell you how I do it.

[00:20:48] I put my phone in the bathroom.

[00:20:50] So it's plugged in.

[00:20:51] It's in the bathroom.

[00:20:52] And I just have kind of an old

[00:20:53] fashioned clock by my bed.

[00:20:56] And that works.

[00:20:57] I mean, it took me some time

[00:20:58] actually to get to that place.

[00:21:00] Like, you know, I used to use my

[00:21:01] phone as alarm clock and then

[00:21:02] it's there and then you pick it

[00:21:03] up and it's it's really,

[00:21:05] really hard

[00:21:07] to draw these boundaries.

[00:21:09] But when you do, it's so worth

[00:21:10] it. It really is.

[00:21:12] So what about in like

[00:21:14] emergency situations?

[00:21:15] Like that's where my brain goes.

[00:21:17] Well, with a family member

[00:21:19] calls in the middle of the

[00:21:20] night, which has happened and

[00:21:21] I've had to get up and I've

[00:21:22] answered the phone luckily

[00:21:23] because it's right by my bed.

[00:21:25] So now I'm

[00:21:28] even more hyper aware that

[00:21:29] I don't want my phone to be away

[00:21:31] for me in an emergency situation.

[00:21:34] So but maybe it's a great

[00:21:35] yeah, no, for sure.

[00:21:36] In that instance, I would say

[00:21:37] actually keep your phone by your

[00:21:38] bed, honestly, because

[00:21:40] if it's going to be more, if

[00:21:41] it's going to create more stress

[00:21:43] for you like, oh, I'm not going

[00:21:44] to get the call or I'm not

[00:21:45] going to wake up if you have

[00:21:45] like a sick parent or

[00:21:47] whatever it is, then

[00:21:48] in those cases, I would say

[00:21:50] yeah, then have the phone.

[00:21:51] And then once that situation

[00:21:52] is stabilized or

[00:21:54] there's a transition that happens

[00:21:56] or whatever it is, then at that

[00:21:57] point I would say, OK, it's time

[00:21:59] to sort of, you know, get

[00:22:01] the phone away from the bed.

[00:22:03] Yeah. Does that make that

[00:22:04] that would be my recommendation?

[00:22:05] No, that that makes sense.

[00:22:07] And that's fair. I haven't done

[00:22:08] it yet, but that.

[00:22:10] And I think the next layer of

[00:22:11] that is, you know, you

[00:22:13] hear different people saying,

[00:22:15] oh, two hours, three hours

[00:22:16] before bed.

[00:22:18] I mean, is there any sweet spot?

[00:22:19] I know you said you're not

[00:22:20] going to tell us exactly what

[00:22:20] to do when it comes to phone

[00:22:21] use and whatnot.

[00:22:22] But is there a sweet spot

[00:22:24] if you're really wanting to.

[00:22:26] Calm down the stress signals,

[00:22:28] any any negative impacts on sleep

[00:22:30] sleep that might come from

[00:22:32] technology use?

[00:22:33] Should we be trying to cease

[00:22:35] use a couple hours before bed?

[00:22:37] Does that matter as much?

[00:22:38] I mean, yeah, that would be ideal,

[00:22:40] for sure.

[00:22:41] One of my mentors shared this

[00:22:42] strategy with me

[00:22:44] and I like to share it's like

[00:22:45] three to one sleep.

[00:22:46] So it's like three hours

[00:22:47] before bed you don't eat two

[00:22:49] hours before bed no work.

[00:22:50] And then one hour before bed

[00:22:52] or more, no technology

[00:22:53] use.

[00:22:54] And I think it really depends

[00:22:57] on several factors.

[00:22:58] It depends on like what type of

[00:23:00] content are you consuming as

[00:23:02] well?

[00:23:03] What type of content are you

[00:23:04] consuming with

[00:23:06] your technology?

[00:23:07] Like people that watch the news

[00:23:10] late at night, that is the

[00:23:11] worst content to watch.

[00:23:13] Like if you're going to watch

[00:23:14] the news, catch the news like

[00:23:15] earlier on in the day,

[00:23:17] not later on in the day

[00:23:19] because it's just all negative.

[00:23:21] It's all stressful.

[00:23:22] It's like you're hearing about

[00:23:23] bridge collapsing and you're

[00:23:24] hearing about, you know, World

[00:23:26] War Three and all this stuff.

[00:23:27] And it's like, oh my God, of

[00:23:28] course, of course, we're not

[00:23:30] going to be able to sleep.

[00:23:31] So the bigger buffer you can

[00:23:33] have, I would say

[00:23:35] create whatever buffer can work

[00:23:37] for you. But the bigger buffer

[00:23:38] you can have between your

[00:23:40] your technologies and your

[00:23:41] actual, you know, bedtime

[00:23:44] is going to be beneficial.

[00:23:45] But that's going to depending

[00:23:46] on your life situation, you

[00:23:47] have kids, do you have a

[00:23:48] sick parent? Do you have,

[00:23:50] you know, is your job?

[00:23:51] What is your job like?

[00:23:52] I mean, there's so many factors

[00:23:53] there. But I would say as much

[00:23:55] as you can distance your

[00:23:56] technology use from

[00:23:59] the time you actually want to

[00:24:00] be asleep, it's going to it's

[00:24:01] going to have a positive impact

[00:24:03] the bigger that gap is on

[00:24:05] your sleep.

[00:24:07] Now, I really appreciate that

[00:24:09] you kind of highlight

[00:24:10] too, how you talk about

[00:24:13] it's from the moment you wake

[00:24:14] up and what you're doing

[00:24:15] throughout the day, not just

[00:24:17] your screen time or things

[00:24:19] that happen right before bed.

[00:24:20] And I think that's really

[00:24:21] important for people to be

[00:24:23] mindful of. And that's something

[00:24:24] as parents now that we've

[00:24:26] had to understand as well, it's

[00:24:28] well, the more active

[00:24:30] and you know, kind of

[00:24:32] allowing the kid to play and get

[00:24:33] sunlight and do different

[00:24:35] things, the more tired they're

[00:24:36] going to be at the end of the

[00:24:37] day. And the more, you know,

[00:24:39] so you're really taking in

[00:24:40] the better he naps, which

[00:24:42] he's napping right now.

[00:24:43] So pray to God he stays

[00:24:44] asleep while we chat

[00:24:46] all of these factors really

[00:24:47] play a role.

[00:24:49] So what does that look like

[00:24:50] then during the day to help set

[00:24:52] your mind and your body up

[00:24:54] to be better, you know, when it

[00:24:56] comes to sleep?

[00:24:58] Well, you really what you just

[00:24:59] said, I mean, be like a kid.

[00:25:01] Yeah, you know, get sun,

[00:25:03] you know, play like

[00:25:05] really, I mean, it sounds and

[00:25:07] people are like, I don't have

[00:25:08] time for that. It's like, OK,

[00:25:09] well, I mean, there's an

[00:25:10] impact, maybe not every day or

[00:25:12] every week, but every little

[00:25:13] thing you can do to

[00:25:15] to get more connected

[00:25:16] to nature and in nature,

[00:25:18] you know, we're, you know,

[00:25:19] we're outside, right?

[00:25:20] We're getting sun on our skin.

[00:25:22] We're seeing the sunrise.

[00:25:22] We're seeing the sunset.

[00:25:23] We're breathing fresh air.

[00:25:25] You look in in in the natural

[00:25:27] world, animals play, right?

[00:25:29] Why do they do that?

[00:25:30] There isn't that like from an

[00:25:31] evolutionary standpoint, that

[00:25:33] would be something that doesn't

[00:25:35] really make sense if animals are

[00:25:36] playing, they're more vulnerable

[00:25:37] being killed. But there's a

[00:25:38] reason why they play.

[00:25:40] And it's because it's it's

[00:25:41] fun. It really is it really

[00:25:42] stress. Right.

[00:25:43] There's there's some time

[00:25:45] where their animals are not

[00:25:47] just looking for food or,

[00:25:49] you know, trying to avoid

[00:25:50] predators.

[00:25:51] So honestly, just looking at

[00:25:53] nature, you can learn so much.

[00:25:56] And if we can become more in

[00:25:57] tune with our natural bio rhythms

[00:25:59] by being more connected to nature,

[00:26:01] being outside, getting sun,

[00:26:03] you know, not going from one thing

[00:26:05] to the next, we call it Sleep

[00:26:06] Science Academy, we call it

[00:26:07] next thing. It's like we just

[00:26:09] like go from from the time we

[00:26:11] wake up, we're all day long.

[00:26:12] It's just like filled with like

[00:26:14] next thing, like we're

[00:26:15] working and then we're eating

[00:26:17] and then we're back to work

[00:26:18] and then we're dealing with

[00:26:18] something else. And then so

[00:26:20] if you can create some

[00:26:22] intentional space and it doesn't

[00:26:24] have to be a lot, it could be five

[00:26:25] minutes in between your

[00:26:27] tasks, where maybe you go outside

[00:26:29] and you get some sunlight, you

[00:26:30] breathe, you know, you

[00:26:32] do something that's fun, that

[00:26:34] doesn't involve technology that

[00:26:35] you know, there's some

[00:26:37] interaction, some type of

[00:26:38] connection with your community

[00:26:41] or the people in your home.

[00:26:42] That makes a huge, huge

[00:26:44] difference. That's those are the

[00:26:45] things that are letting air out

[00:26:47] of the balloon.

[00:26:49] In calf, I mean, and then simple

[00:26:50] things like starting your day with

[00:26:52] caffeine, most people they

[00:26:54] wake up, they drink their coffee

[00:26:55] right away. Cortisol is highest

[00:26:57] in the morning. That's the

[00:26:58] stress hormone. And then

[00:27:00] essentially what caffeine does

[00:27:01] is it's like dumping gasoline

[00:27:03] on fire. And now your

[00:27:05] cortisol is elevated the rest

[00:27:06] of the day. So you know, like

[00:27:08] wait an hour, you wait

[00:27:10] an hour before you have that

[00:27:11] cup of coffee, have a big

[00:27:11] glass of water, start your day

[00:27:13] slower, you know, get up a

[00:27:14] little bit earlier so that you

[00:27:16] can start your day slower and

[00:27:17] that'll have an impact on how

[00:27:18] the rest of your day goes.

[00:27:20] These are all little strategies,

[00:27:22] little tools, a little ways

[00:27:24] of sort of operating

[00:27:27] throughout the day that then

[00:27:28] set the body up for again, the

[00:27:30] most natural thing in the world

[00:27:32] sleep so natural. If we're not

[00:27:34] get if we're not sleeping, all

[00:27:36] that means is that something is

[00:27:38] out of balance in either how

[00:27:40] we're behaving or maybe and

[00:27:41] that's affecting our body,

[00:27:42] which then has the result of

[00:27:44] sleep not happening. That's

[00:27:45] it. It's not a problem.

[00:27:47] It's a result. It's like, OK,

[00:27:49] what is the, you know, what's

[00:27:52] the cause that's leading to the

[00:27:54] effect of one of the most

[00:27:56] natural things in the world

[00:27:59] not happening? Yeah.

[00:28:00] That's the question I always

[00:28:02] ask. And I ask everyone to

[00:28:04] really ask that question

[00:28:05] themselves if they're

[00:28:06] struggling with their sleep.

[00:28:08] And if you really take the

[00:28:09] time to think about it,

[00:28:10] like it's amazing the type

[00:28:12] of answers that come up.

[00:28:13] It's like, oh, wow, like I

[00:28:14] need more connection in my life.

[00:28:15] Oh, wow, I am, you know, super

[00:28:18] stressed about this thing or,

[00:28:19] wow, I haven't drawn these

[00:28:20] boundaries with my technology.

[00:28:22] Like so there's small

[00:28:24] things, but these small things

[00:28:26] throughout the day add up to be

[00:28:27] big things.

[00:28:29] Yeah. And I can't imagine some

[00:28:30] of the things that some of the

[00:28:31] realizations that you've had,

[00:28:33] you know, clients in your in

[00:28:34] your sleep science academy come

[00:28:36] up with.

[00:28:37] But I appreciate too how you

[00:28:40] you approach it in the way,

[00:28:41] you know, we'll always have

[00:28:43] the people who say, oh, I

[00:28:44] don't have time to do that.

[00:28:45] I don't have time to go outside.

[00:28:46] I don't have time to get

[00:28:47] sunlight in my eyes.

[00:28:48] I don't have time to stick my

[00:28:49] feet in the grass.

[00:28:50] And yeah, if we see it as

[00:28:52] something that needs to be this

[00:28:53] hour or two hour long process,

[00:28:55] but you gave three, four, five

[00:28:56] examples right there that could

[00:28:58] take less than 60 seconds from

[00:28:59] your day and those little

[00:29:01] micro doses of

[00:29:03] changes for our brain, our

[00:29:05] stress system and our body

[00:29:06] can be so profound when

[00:29:09] done consistently.

[00:29:10] And, you know, it's a positive

[00:29:12] feedback loop. You do these

[00:29:13] positive things and it will be

[00:29:14] get more because you'll start to

[00:29:16] notice the difference in your

[00:29:17] brain and body won't be able to

[00:29:19] ignore it.

[00:29:20] 100 percent, I see that

[00:29:22] all the time, all

[00:29:24] the time. I mean, we really work

[00:29:26] with the worst of the

[00:29:28] worst like people that have been

[00:29:30] on all kinds of sleeping

[00:29:31] medications are getting two to three

[00:29:32] hours a night.

[00:29:33] They're not sleeping.

[00:29:34] They've tried all the functional

[00:29:35] doctors and they're like,

[00:29:37] we're like their last hope.

[00:29:38] And when I'm not kidding you

[00:29:39] when they start to understand

[00:29:41] how sleep works and they start

[00:29:43] to understand how how they're

[00:29:44] living and thinking impacts

[00:29:46] their sleep and they make these

[00:29:47] little micro adjustments, it's

[00:29:49] like incredible what

[00:29:51] happens. They they shock

[00:29:53] themselves.

[00:29:55] And it's not it's not like it's

[00:29:57] rocket science. It's not like

[00:29:59] it's it's this crazy

[00:30:01] these crazy things that we need

[00:30:02] to implement or do differently.

[00:30:04] It's just small things.

[00:30:05] But like you said, done with

[00:30:06] consistency over time

[00:30:09] then create, you know, a big

[00:30:10] result.

[00:30:11] And that result means natural

[00:30:13] sleep. Yeah.

[00:30:14] And it's I mean, consistency is

[00:30:15] everything we talk about.

[00:30:17] It sounds super similar to me

[00:30:18] with people who we work with

[00:30:20] who have pain and you start

[00:30:22] doing some small things like

[00:30:23] some breathwork and, you know,

[00:30:25] a couple of movements that

[00:30:26] actually target your main

[00:30:28] restrictions and the root cause

[00:30:30] and it empowers

[00:30:32] people to once they realize

[00:30:33] that the decisions they make

[00:30:35] allow them to take

[00:30:36] responsibility for the positive

[00:30:37] things they're feeling in their

[00:30:38] body. It's so much different

[00:30:40] than taking a sleep medication

[00:30:42] or taking malatone or something

[00:30:43] like that that you feel like is

[00:30:45] something external that's going

[00:30:46] to result in something

[00:30:47] different. You put the power

[00:30:48] back in the person's hands,

[00:30:49] which is pretty. Yes.

[00:30:51] That's so important.

[00:30:52] And that's actually one of

[00:30:53] the mistakes that we didn't

[00:30:54] get to when we're talking about

[00:30:55] the big there's three big

[00:30:56] mistakes. The that's that's

[00:30:58] the other one. It's people

[00:31:00] give their power away because

[00:31:01] they rely on sleeping

[00:31:02] medication or sleeping aids or

[00:31:04] whatever it is.

[00:31:05] And they're relying on

[00:31:06] something else to put

[00:31:08] them to sleep.

[00:31:09] And don't get me wrong.

[00:31:10] And this is not medical advice,

[00:31:12] but there's a time and a place

[00:31:13] for medication.

[00:31:14] But these sleeping medications

[00:31:16] were designed to be used

[00:31:17] very, very temporarily,

[00:31:19] not for months and years.

[00:31:22] And the danger is in using

[00:31:23] something like a sleeping aid

[00:31:25] is not only doesn't it doesn't

[00:31:26] create natural sleep.

[00:31:27] It sedates you and there's a

[00:31:28] difference between real sleep

[00:31:29] and sedation.

[00:31:30] But like you said, you're

[00:31:31] giving you're putting your

[00:31:32] power into something else.

[00:31:33] You're saying I need this

[00:31:35] thing or I won't sleep.

[00:31:36] And that's just not true.

[00:31:38] And now you don't have.

[00:31:40] You have less control because

[00:31:42] you're relying on something

[00:31:44] that's outside of yourself.

[00:31:45] Right. So it's very much like

[00:31:48] what you guys do with with

[00:31:49] helping your your clients get

[00:31:51] out of pain. And if pain is

[00:31:53] the reason why you're not

[00:31:54] sleeping, then deal with pain.

[00:31:55] Right? Like figure out a way

[00:31:56] of how to get to the root

[00:31:58] cause of the pain to get out of

[00:31:59] pain so that sleep can happen.

[00:32:02] Yeah. Now I want to go into

[00:32:04] the environment a little bit

[00:32:05] because I noticed even for

[00:32:06] myself being the person that I

[00:32:08] would look at my husband

[00:32:10] peacefully sleeping and I'm

[00:32:11] still trying to figure out how

[00:32:12] I get to sleep.

[00:32:13] One thing that made a really

[00:32:14] huge impact because we don't

[00:32:16] have a blacked out room.

[00:32:17] We don't have blacked out

[00:32:18] shades, but I got a really

[00:32:20] comfortable, amazing sleep

[00:32:21] mask that I love and I

[00:32:23] rely on heavily.

[00:32:25] But I black it out and I can

[00:32:27] sleep. So how much

[00:32:29] does that impact our

[00:32:31] sleep? Like the environment

[00:32:33] and the room that we're in.

[00:32:35] Yeah, it does impact your

[00:32:38] sleep quality drastically.

[00:32:40] Now, so really

[00:32:42] important that people pick that

[00:32:43] up, not necessarily the

[00:32:45] quantity of your sleep, but

[00:32:46] the quality of your sleep.

[00:32:48] Because if you're having

[00:32:49] trouble falling or staying

[00:32:50] asleep and you're waking up,

[00:32:51] getting a sleep mask or black

[00:32:52] out curtains or all those

[00:32:54] things, it's not going to

[00:32:55] really do that do what's

[00:32:57] necessary to actually have the

[00:32:58] result. But if you're

[00:32:59] sleeping pretty good and you

[00:33:01] put in place, you know,

[00:33:03] darkness, the room is

[00:33:04] cold, it's quiet.

[00:33:06] You're in a really comfortable

[00:33:08] bed. You got really nice

[00:33:10] sheets. You know, it's just like

[00:33:11] a sacred space.

[00:33:12] The bedroom is a sacred space.

[00:33:14] We spend a third of our lives

[00:33:16] asleep. So like third of our

[00:33:17] lives in a bed, right?

[00:33:19] So make it

[00:33:21] like a spa.

[00:33:22] Like I tell people like make

[00:33:24] your bedroom like the

[00:33:26] colors on the wall, the

[00:33:27] fabrics on the quality

[00:33:29] of your mattress.

[00:33:30] Like you're spending a third

[00:33:31] of your life in this room

[00:33:33] or a good portion of your life

[00:33:34] in this room. Make it like the

[00:33:36] best room in your house.

[00:33:37] Like really invest in

[00:33:40] high quality stuff as much

[00:33:41] whatever quality that is,

[00:33:43] depending on where you are

[00:33:44] with your finances,

[00:33:47] get the best possible

[00:33:49] whatever it is for your

[00:33:50] bedroom. It'll make a

[00:33:52] difference. It really will

[00:33:53] light and temperature really

[00:33:55] play a big factor in quality

[00:33:57] of sleep. So the depth of

[00:33:58] getting into the Delta stages

[00:34:00] of sleep, the REM stages

[00:34:02] of sleep, those stages that

[00:34:04] really have you wake up feeling

[00:34:05] like a million dollars, the

[00:34:07] quality of your environment,

[00:34:10] the air, you know, open a

[00:34:11] window, get some fresh air.

[00:34:13] I mean, maybe not if you live in

[00:34:14] a city, but if you live somewhere

[00:34:16] where you can get fresh air into

[00:34:17] the bedroom, crack a window even

[00:34:19] in the winter, even better.

[00:34:21] Makes a difference.

[00:34:22] It does. Yeah.

[00:34:23] I'm always cracking the window

[00:34:24] before we go to sleep

[00:34:25] regardless. I'm from Minnesota

[00:34:27] originally. Yeah.

[00:34:28] Even if it's like I would crack

[00:34:30] the windows in the winter in

[00:34:31] Minnesota because I love

[00:34:32] sleeping in a nice, you know,

[00:34:33] crisp room.

[00:34:34] But yeah.

[00:34:36] And I'm guessing when it comes

[00:34:37] to environment, if we're talking

[00:34:40] pillow preference, mattress

[00:34:42] preference, is it all just

[00:34:44] based on preference as

[00:34:45] to what's most comfortable for

[00:34:47] the individual? Are there other

[00:34:48] recommendations that you have?

[00:34:51] Yeah, it really is.

[00:34:52] I mean, I always tell people

[00:34:53] get what's comfortable for you

[00:34:55] because that's and and and

[00:34:56] by what's aligned with your

[00:34:58] values because some, you know,

[00:34:59] some people are really

[00:35:00] concerned about like, you know,

[00:35:01] mattresses off-gassing, you

[00:35:03] know? So OK, we'll get more

[00:35:04] a more organic natural

[00:35:06] mattress. Right?

[00:35:07] If that's important to you.

[00:35:08] Some people are like, well, I

[00:35:10] just want to support a mattress

[00:35:11] that that kind of supports my

[00:35:13] back because I have back issues.

[00:35:14] OK, we'll find a really great

[00:35:16] mattress and pillow that's

[00:35:18] there's not like the perfect

[00:35:19] mattress or the perfect pillow

[00:35:20] for everyone. It's kind of like

[00:35:22] what's right for you.

[00:35:23] And that depends on what's

[00:35:25] going on for you.

[00:35:26] And do you sleep on your side?

[00:35:28] Do you sleep on your stomach?

[00:35:29] You know, like there's all these

[00:35:30] little little nuances that

[00:35:32] then kind of determine, hey, what

[00:35:33] would be maybe appropriate

[00:35:37] for someone to really set

[00:35:38] themselves up for just a great

[00:35:40] night of sleep from an

[00:35:41] environmental standpoint.

[00:35:42] A thousand percent we can as

[00:35:44] PTs, we back that statement

[00:35:45] a lot. There's no one perfect

[00:35:47] pillow, one perfect mattress

[00:35:49] out there. It really depends on

[00:35:51] the person and being able to

[00:35:52] find that comfort for them.

[00:35:53] So I love that you said that.

[00:35:55] OK, one last question when

[00:35:56] it comes to the environment

[00:35:57] because this is something, again,

[00:35:59] that we did for a baby sound

[00:36:01] machine.

[00:36:03] Does that again just play a role

[00:36:05] in the quality and making sure

[00:36:07] you're not hearing outside noises

[00:36:09] or maybe if you live in the city?

[00:36:10] Is it something people shouldn't

[00:36:11] rely on? Like what about

[00:36:13] sound machines?

[00:36:14] Yeah. So really, I think it

[00:36:15] really depends, you know.

[00:36:16] So like if you're in the

[00:36:17] country and you open your

[00:36:18] window and hear the sound of

[00:36:20] crickets and it's just like

[00:36:22] natural sounds, that's a

[00:36:24] sound machine.

[00:36:25] If you live in the city and

[00:36:27] you're hearing honking horns and

[00:36:28] ambulance and all that, you know,

[00:36:31] people in the street screaming

[00:36:32] like, OK, get a sound machine to

[00:36:34] kind of wash that out or like turn

[00:36:36] a fan on to kind of create

[00:36:37] more of a hum or a natural sound.

[00:36:40] But I think it really just

[00:36:41] depends. The really important

[00:36:42] thing for people to understand

[00:36:44] is there's different types of

[00:36:45] sound. You know, there's

[00:36:47] white noise and pink noise and

[00:36:48] all different types of, you

[00:36:50] know, sounds of the nature

[00:36:51] and sounds all have just a

[00:36:53] frequency and certain

[00:36:54] frequencies soothe people

[00:36:56] better than others. Some people

[00:36:58] actually just prefer not to

[00:36:59] have any noise like they want

[00:37:01] their room as quiet as

[00:37:02] possible. So even some people

[00:37:04] sleep with earplugs.

[00:37:05] So again, it kind of comes

[00:37:06] back to personal preference,

[00:37:08] but it really does depend on

[00:37:09] your situation.

[00:37:11] And the last thing

[00:37:12] I'll say is you don't

[00:37:15] want to rely on anything in

[00:37:16] order to sleep.

[00:37:17] You don't want to have to

[00:37:18] feel like you have to pack

[00:37:19] your noise machine

[00:37:22] on your vacation or you

[00:37:23] won't sleep like that

[00:37:25] right there tells you, OK,

[00:37:26] I'm I'm like kind of giving my

[00:37:28] power away to this noise

[00:37:29] machine. And I feel like I need

[00:37:31] to have something in order to

[00:37:32] sleep. So I would just say,

[00:37:33] just be careful about sort of

[00:37:35] relying on anything if that

[00:37:36] makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:38] Oh, that makes perfect sense.

[00:37:39] So we have a lot of people in

[00:37:40] our community that are in

[00:37:42] the ages and going through the

[00:37:43] stages of menopause, whether

[00:37:45] it's perimenopause or

[00:37:46] postmenopause.

[00:37:48] And a lot of people in those

[00:37:50] times because of different

[00:37:51] hormonal changes can

[00:37:53] experience sleep

[00:37:54] disturbances.

[00:37:55] You deal with a lot of clients

[00:37:57] or members like this and what

[00:38:00] are some I know is probably a

[00:38:01] pretty broad topic to cover

[00:38:03] quickly. But are there any

[00:38:05] suggestions or things that you

[00:38:07] would suggest to these people?

[00:38:09] Yeah, it's super common about

[00:38:11] I think it's around 60 percent

[00:38:13] of women during that period

[00:38:14] experience sleep challenge

[00:38:16] and for a lot of reasons.

[00:38:18] So

[00:38:20] here's the this is the truth.

[00:38:22] Like if you're going through

[00:38:23] that time, that period of life

[00:38:25] and you're not sleeping, it's

[00:38:27] going to pass.

[00:38:28] There's there's some things you

[00:38:29] can do like, you know, hot

[00:38:31] flashes and so there's things

[00:38:33] you can do to kind of create a

[00:38:34] cooler environment in your in

[00:38:35] your bedroom.

[00:38:36] There's also really fun devices

[00:38:38] now and mattress pads and things

[00:38:39] that can keep you cool and kind

[00:38:40] of help you during if you're

[00:38:42] having hot flashes in the

[00:38:44] middle of the night.

[00:38:45] There are certain supplements,

[00:38:46] one being glycine, which is

[00:38:47] naturally found in bone broth

[00:38:49] that kind of helps regulate the

[00:38:50] body temperature.

[00:38:51] But that's kind of like a period

[00:38:52] of life, just like when you

[00:38:54] just have a baby and the baby's

[00:38:56] up and it needs to be breastfed

[00:38:57] and all the things.

[00:38:59] It's kind of just like a hard time

[00:39:00] in life. Like you're probably not

[00:39:02] going to get much sleep as a

[00:39:03] new parent.

[00:39:04] And when you're going through

[00:39:05] menopause, you probably might

[00:39:07] not get that great a sleep during

[00:39:08] that period.

[00:39:09] The trick is to not let it carry

[00:39:12] over into after you go

[00:39:14] through that phase because

[00:39:15] then your body's essentially

[00:39:17] your hormones are going to find

[00:39:18] the balance.

[00:39:19] Right. And there's obviously

[00:39:21] not a hormone doctor.

[00:39:22] So I'm not here to tell you to,

[00:39:23] you know, take any type of

[00:39:25] hormone supplements or anything

[00:39:26] like that. But once you get

[00:39:28] through that phase, if you're

[00:39:29] still not sleeping, then

[00:39:31] there's probably something in

[00:39:32] your behavior and your psychology

[00:39:33] that needs to shift.

[00:39:35] But just understand that that's

[00:39:37] going to pass.

[00:39:38] And it usually can be a short

[00:39:39] amount of time if you're

[00:39:40] experiencing sleep challenge in

[00:39:42] that period.

[00:39:43] It can be a short amount of time.

[00:39:44] And it's kind of like, you

[00:39:46] know, there's not much you

[00:39:48] can do.

[00:39:49] But just say I'm going to get

[00:39:50] through this and eventually I

[00:39:51] will sleep again. And if you're

[00:39:53] not, you're still struggling to

[00:39:54] sleep after that. Again, then

[00:39:55] it's kind of something in what

[00:39:56] you're how you're behaving or

[00:39:58] what's going on in your mind.

[00:40:00] If it's not just purely a

[00:40:01] hormonal issue, does that

[00:40:02] make my being hope?

[00:40:03] I hope we're being clear about

[00:40:05] you are kind of express here.

[00:40:06] You are. And I think the

[00:40:07] realization and acknowledgement

[00:40:10] of that in the first place

[00:40:12] can help to take a lot of

[00:40:13] some air out of that balloon

[00:40:15] and reduce some of that stress

[00:40:16] knowing that it's a it's for

[00:40:17] a period of time.

[00:40:18] It's not forever.

[00:40:19] So what can I do?

[00:40:21] You know, during the day to best

[00:40:23] support me because again, I love

[00:40:25] coming back to that concept that

[00:40:26] it's what you're doing

[00:40:28] throughout your day.

[00:40:29] And one last question I have

[00:40:30] that I don't know how much we

[00:40:32] touched on it, but how much

[00:40:34] does movement play a role

[00:40:36] in you being able to

[00:40:38] get back to sleep or get

[00:40:40] to sleep?

[00:40:40] Like like movement meaning like

[00:40:42] exercise or fitness or just

[00:40:44] generally say you have a really

[00:40:45] sedentary job and you're

[00:40:47] sitting just a ton for work

[00:40:49] like does that impact your

[00:40:51] your sleep state as well?

[00:40:52] Oh, 100 percent.

[00:40:53] 100 percent.

[00:40:55] And I think one of the reasons

[00:40:57] that moving your body

[00:40:58] throughout the day, getting

[00:41:00] exercise, whatever form

[00:41:03] is so beneficial is because

[00:41:04] it's a stress reliever.

[00:41:05] You know, that's a totally

[00:41:06] letting air out of that balloon.

[00:41:08] The trick is not to exercise

[00:41:10] too hard too late because what

[00:41:12] what if you're let's say

[00:41:13] you get out of work and it's

[00:41:14] yet out of work kind of late

[00:41:16] like 7 p.m.

[00:41:17] And then you're going to the

[00:41:18] gym and you're really doing

[00:41:19] some hard workout.

[00:41:21] That's going to elevate your

[00:41:22] body temperature and your body

[00:41:24] need body temperature needs to

[00:41:25] drop for sleep to happen two

[00:41:27] to three degrees Fahrenheit.

[00:41:28] And so if you elevate your

[00:41:29] body temperature too much

[00:41:31] through too hard of exercise,

[00:41:32] then it can actually negatively

[00:41:34] impact your sleep.

[00:41:36] But most people don't have that

[00:41:37] challenge. Most people just are

[00:41:38] not moving enough.

[00:41:39] Yeah.

[00:41:40] So even just going for a walk,

[00:41:42] you know, it's like that's

[00:41:43] so beneficial, even if it's

[00:41:45] just down to your mailbox

[00:41:47] or whatever it is, like just

[00:41:48] moving your body at all

[00:41:50] throughout the day is going to be

[00:41:51] have a positive impact on

[00:41:53] on how well you're going to sleep

[00:41:54] at night. Yeah.

[00:41:55] And it kind of brings me back to

[00:41:57] the what you brought up about

[00:41:59] like watch some documentaries

[00:42:01] on cheetahs and leopards.

[00:42:03] And and what are they doing?

[00:42:05] You know, yes, they lay around

[00:42:07] and they sunbathe, but they

[00:42:08] play, they run, they hunt,

[00:42:10] they're active.

[00:42:11] And if we use that as our

[00:42:12] example of some of the things

[00:42:14] that we should add into our

[00:42:15] life in order to

[00:42:17] start setting ourselves up

[00:42:19] so that sleep can come a little

[00:42:21] bit better.

[00:42:23] I think that that one's going to

[00:42:24] stick with me like what would a

[00:42:26] cheetah do?

[00:42:28] Yeah, well, Panda.

[00:42:29] Yeah, or pigeon.

[00:42:32] It's really interesting.

[00:42:33] I mean, it's animals don't have

[00:42:35] trouble sleeping, you know,

[00:42:37] they just do it.

[00:42:38] It's just they don't think about

[00:42:39] it. We really don't need to

[00:42:41] think about it either. But

[00:42:42] what we do need to think

[00:42:43] about is, you know, how

[00:42:45] we're living our lives or in the

[00:42:47] day because that that truly

[00:42:48] is that truly

[00:42:50] is what dictates how well we're

[00:42:52] going to sleep at night. It truly

[00:42:53] is.

[00:42:54] Absolutely no.

[00:42:55] And I think that you've given

[00:42:56] so many incredible

[00:42:58] examples of places that people

[00:43:00] can start to look in their own

[00:43:01] lives to be

[00:43:03] able to set themselves

[00:43:05] up better in this area and set

[00:43:06] themselves up for better sleep.

[00:43:08] But where can they go to learn

[00:43:09] from you more? You've mentioned

[00:43:10] your Institute a couple times.

[00:43:13] Do you have any other places

[00:43:14] online? I'm sure you put out a

[00:43:15] ton more free information and

[00:43:17] also opportunities to get into

[00:43:19] some courses or memberships.

[00:43:22] Yeah, no, absolutely.

[00:43:23] So a lot of my stuff

[00:43:25] is online on for free,

[00:43:26] completely for free on YouTube

[00:43:28] at Sleep Science Academy and

[00:43:30] then sleep scienceacademy.com

[00:43:32] if people are interested in the

[00:43:33] work that we do.

[00:43:35] But I would say YouTube, you

[00:43:36] know, I try to put out at

[00:43:37] least a video week on a

[00:43:39] topic that I know will

[00:43:41] resonate with someone that's

[00:43:41] struggling with their sleep.

[00:43:44] And then we have, you know, we

[00:43:45] have webinars and quizzes

[00:43:47] and all kind of fun things on

[00:43:48] our website as well.

[00:43:50] Perfect. Well, Devin, thank you

[00:43:51] so much for taking the time to

[00:43:53] sit down and really dive into

[00:43:55] sleep science. This is going to

[00:43:56] be very beneficial for so many

[00:43:57] people, myself included.

[00:43:59] So I really appreciate it.

[00:44:01] Oh, thanks for having me on.

[00:44:02] It was really nice to connect

[00:44:03] with you both.

[00:44:05] Thanks for sticking around for

[00:44:06] another interview. Such a great

[00:44:08] discussion on sleep with

[00:44:09] Devin Burke. So if you know

[00:44:11] anybody out there who might be

[00:44:12] struggling with sleep or

[00:44:13] struggling with insomnia, please

[00:44:15] pass this episode along.

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