PNE and Workspace Ergonomics

[00:00:00] Untold Physio Stories is part of the All-New PT Podcast Network. Find a new favorite podcast by

[00:00:05] an amazing PT content creator at PTpodcastnetwork.com

[00:00:10] The future of medical documentation is here and it's revolutionizing the way we record

[00:00:18] patient visits, introducing Comprehend PT, the groundbreaking hippocompline AI-scribed

[00:00:23] design specifically for physical therapists. Imagine a world with a dialogue between

[00:00:28] PT's and patients is interpreted by AI into precise real-time medical notes without lifting

[00:00:34] a pen or tapping a keyboard. Carpohen PT does just that, allowing healthcare professionals

[00:00:39] to stay engaged with patients rather than buried in documentation. Boost your efficiency,

[00:00:44] reduce claimed iniles and liberate yourself from the burdens of manual note taking

[00:00:47] with Carpohen PT, join the revolution now at Carpohenpt.com.

[00:00:53] So Physio Stories listeners get 50% off their first month with code MMT50 and there's a free

[00:01:01] trial available. Find up now, I use it every day in a clinic for virtual and my visits.

[00:01:06] I just speak to the patient and at the end hit Carpohenpt and a soap note generated. I love it

[00:01:11] and you will too. Welcome back down to Physio Stories Podcasts. I'm one of your host

[00:01:21] Dr. E with Modern Manual Therapy Edge Mobility System Network 4 month online mentoring program

[00:01:24] modern we had mastery. My co-host Dr. Andrew Rochale is not with me. Today I have a special guest,

[00:01:30] Dr. Scott Low and Scott's you can give a little intro and tell us your story.

[00:01:36] Alright thank you. I've been a big fan for years so I'm really glad to be part of this program now.

[00:01:42] As introduced my name is Dr. Scott Low. I'm an assistant professor at the Georgia campus

[00:01:48] of the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine Department of Physical Therapy

[00:01:53] and one of the things I want to talk about. Yeah I know, I know, locally I just say PCOM but

[00:02:00] hopefully with broader national audience and that even international. So that's where you can find me.

[00:02:06] The thing that I'm going to kind of bring to the audience today is how I'm finding ways to bring

[00:02:13] together a couple interest of mine that up into this point have really been kind of dissonant

[00:02:19] even. And those two areas are some of what we know in terms of the modern concepts of pain neuroscience

[00:02:25] education with some of the industrial work, for instance, with ergonomics. So as I think a lot of

[00:02:32] listeners on this podcast are probably quite familiar with we've developed across the last 10

[00:02:38] 15 years. Some really good data on how some of these changes can be made with patients when we

[00:02:44] provide with them some of the education about how pain actually works. They're probably not

[00:02:50] getting this oftentimes even from other providers and they're probably not finding some of

[00:02:54] this accurate information from Dr. Google that they like to use. What I've seen though in my experience

[00:03:02] doing ergonomic assessment and evaluation is a lot of that world despite its long history and

[00:03:08] again, it's own solid research has really stayed significantly more on the kind of patho

[00:03:14] anatomical mindset where hey, you know if you're not in this correct sort of speak posture,

[00:03:20] that's going to lead to pain and repetitive musculoskeletal use disorders over time.

[00:03:26] Certainly some of that's true but what I've tried to find is a way to combine these two knowledge

[00:03:31] banks to where the individuals I'm consulting with or treating are able to have good mechanical

[00:03:38] elements but also not potentially playing to some of those no-sebo type elements from wording there.

[00:03:46] Certainly jump and if you have any follow-up questions or clarifications,

[00:03:49] this is something I can definitely roll on about so hit me up if you want any clarification

[00:03:54] that you think would be helpful for the audience. Well I mean normally it's not like a kind of

[00:03:59] interview you took Godgast but I mean would you say, well first of all I would have you

[00:04:06] taken Greg Leamons course. Uh huh. Okay yeah because that's a good I mean that's almost exactly

[00:04:12] what you're trying to do in a way right? Yeah, I'm nodding here but you can't hear me over the

[00:04:18] dying. Right yes maybe we could sometimes I'd make these in this short video clips.

[00:04:24] So what would you say is like the biggest crudals though I mean what since you're doing

[00:04:30] some more of like industrial do you ever get pushed back from like say the employer that you know

[00:04:38] oh I thought you were going to be ergonomic right? Like could I think of like when we even have

[00:04:43] called this ergonomics before pain science, could I do these things? They're certainly ergonomics

[00:04:49] can can add up to what I say is like filling up the cup right? But I wouldn't say it's not it's

[00:04:54] not the end all beyond. I mean I remember I used to teach like a back education school and in like

[00:05:00] 1998 you know I mean long, long time ago and I remember thinking like I lifted weights but it

[00:05:08] didn't occur for me to tell people to deadlift because that's like the most efficient way

[00:05:14] to lifting off the floor and like me whenever it's squat all the way down and then pick up something

[00:05:21] heavy and then lift something up it's like something practical the lift something heavy out the floor

[00:05:26] like what do you say is the biggest disconnect? That is a great question to your point

[00:05:31] uh the employer side of it is definitely relevant one of the biggest elements that I look at

[00:05:38] that does blend these two worlds is the education side of it. That if you're able to describe

[00:05:44] to somebody hey these are some generalities that oftentimes work from the ergonomic side

[00:05:50] but this is also a little bit more about how your body tends to process signals and turn them into

[00:05:57] pain what I found is if you can combine both of those you don't leave anything off and those are

[00:06:04] where we're seeing some of the better outcomes as long as I have a chance to oftentimes chat with

[00:06:09] the employer ahead of time they've been pretty good about getting on board but to your point it is a

[00:06:14] little bit of an educational piece for them as well they may be familiar with ergonomics but not

[00:06:20] so much with some of the pain science elements that I've tried to blend in along with it.

[00:06:25] Yeah yeah um do you have a particular case though in mind where say maybe someone was being treated

[00:06:34] and they were only purely talking about ergonomics or strength or posture or something

[00:06:40] and then P&E actually kind of like help them more than you know ergonomically changing something.

[00:06:50] Yes so there's one example really that comes to mind I was in a office workplace setting

[00:06:56] several years ago doing ergonomics assessment and this person I walked up their desk and they were

[00:07:02] literally in the textbook everything you shouldn't do position and I said hey

[00:07:10] how do you feel about your setup there and they said great I tried to ask them you know not

[00:07:16] two leading questions by said any issues with your neck pain there because you're looking up

[00:07:22] several feet to your monitor they were nearly fully reclined in their chair which is rather impressive

[00:07:27] actually and they said no I've been you know doing this for a couple years now no real symptom issues

[00:07:35] said well if you do we can talk about it person next to them said what about me though they were

[00:07:43] textbook you know monitors 90 90s at the elbows and hips and they said even with trying to

[00:07:51] everything I can possibly hear my neck and my right forearm really started hurt a lot more

[00:07:56] than I'm at work so since the first person did not require any of my time I spent a couple

[00:08:02] minutes talking to that second person about some of the other factors that they'd already identified

[00:08:07] and turns out that they had already recognized that they weren't getting up and moving they weren't

[00:08:12] getting the micro breaks and there were some of the elements of their own stress management

[00:08:17] that they knew they were trying to work through the tint to coincide with their symptom

[00:08:22] presentation at work so why found this is a really neat example that even the static posture didn't

[00:08:30] nearly as much of a difference as the micro breaking and the psychosocial factors which is

[00:08:35] all really consistent with some of the research we have from both worlds so those two people side

[00:08:39] by side were great compare and contrast to me that's funny I wish you could you could think of

[00:08:45] picture of that I thought about that afterwards yeah yeah or even just replicate it you know to me

[00:08:50] like I'm trying to imagine someone being so reclined probably just a relaxing position to work

[00:08:57] in them and I often thought before I knew anything about teen science I used to say that if I

[00:09:02] could develop a recliner that had the monitor attached to it and you know everything like

[00:09:09] your mouse pad and your keyboard and everything was within a good reach of like a 90 90 thing

[00:09:14] but your head and neck were supported as you were inclined and you have like whatever

[00:09:18] the weight of your head on your neck I thought that could probably be good but it doesn't

[00:09:23] I acted like oh you'd be able to sit there and work there for eight hours which we all know

[00:09:28] is actually not even even though it doesn't cause pain it may actually cause several

[00:09:32] comorbidities or may cause early death but that's a good description. I mean I'll cause pain

[00:09:37] yeah you get the cause but it's a associated with an increase in all cause mortality.

[00:09:44] Yes yes that captures all your bases right there.

[00:09:48] Right well this may not I mean you're who I said like this may not actually

[00:09:52] hurt you but you should still get up to move more often if you want to live longer

[00:09:57] exactly so you can enjoy retiring from said job. Right right well if you have any if you guys

[00:10:03] have any comments or questions for Dr. Lowe you can reach out to me on social media and I'll

[00:10:09] forward them if you think it's interesting or you want to just even see a mimic picture of this

[00:10:15] crazy set up it's probably not the worst set up I've ever heard of. I did I don't know if you

[00:10:19] heard the episode of someone who like had like QXR and his keyboard was so high that he was like

[00:10:27] flexed like like taking like this and he had elbow pain and even though like repeated elbow

[00:10:33] extensions helped him the thing that really brought at home was that my co-host at the time

[00:10:40] she found out that he was sleeping on like four or five pillows supine.

[00:10:45] Oh. Investigation. Extremely flexed that it's not actually took away all the pillows

[00:10:51] cold turkey but I think like you had to take away a pillow every couple weeks or something.

[00:10:56] Interesting yeah getting a good subjective huge it is but I mean it also takes you

[00:11:01] while to figure things out when you think like something else is probably going on either you can't

[00:11:06] treat it or you miss something yeah all right hey well thanks coming on

[00:11:13] indeed glad to be here and I appreciate everything that you've done look forward to hearing the next podcast

[00:11:19] after this. All right awesome yeah you're not gonna listen to your episode.

[00:11:23] You know your own voice and all that great great well I hear that all the times they do my

[00:11:28] unediting so all right to make sure to hit that subscribe button give us a five star rating

[00:11:33] special on Apple and Spotify is that helps our show be discovered and with our SEO and it's always