What It Looks Like To Innovate In Today's PT Market With Dr. Joseph Martin

[00:00:00] Welcome! You've entered the Physical Therapy Owners Club podcast, where your host, Nathan

[00:00:08] Shields and other successful PT owners and leaders share their experience and insights

[00:00:12] on how to build successful PT businesses. They'll share the stories of their paths to

[00:00:17] success and show you how you can also obtain greater freedom and more profits from your

[00:00:22] business. That's what the PT Owners Club is all about. Greater freedom and more

[00:00:26] profits. There's plenty of room for you as well, so come on in and join the club.

[00:00:38] Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Adam Robin. And today I'm with a new

[00:00:45] friend of mine, Dr. Joe Martin. How are you doing?

[00:00:49] I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:51] How about Dr. Joe? Do we call you Dr. Joe?

[00:00:53] Sure.

[00:00:54] Dr. Joe. Yeah, so I wanted to bring you on. We connected. You know, I saw that

[00:01:00] you were pretty active in the Facebook group and caught my attention with some of

[00:01:05] the information. Like, you were helping a lot of practice owners answering some

[00:01:09] questions in the group. And it really inspired me. So we connected. We

[00:01:12] connected, what, in the DMs? We started having a conversation. Then we jumped on,

[00:01:15] jumped on a phone call and thought you were a pretty cool guy. You had a

[00:01:18] pretty unique story. Obviously, what we'll share here in a bit is your

[00:01:21] story and how you've been successful in this space. And so I thought it

[00:01:25] would be great to bring you on and introduce you to our listeners and

[00:01:29] learn your story and see if we can't learn something from you about that.

[00:01:32] Great. That's awesome. So tell us, tell us about Dr. Joe. Where, who are

[00:01:37] you? Where are you from? And tell us your story.

[00:01:39] So from upstate New York, and I right out of school, I graduated my doctor

[00:01:46] from upstate medical university in Syracuse. Great place. My undergrad

[00:01:49] was Utica College of Syracuse University and worked at a few places

[00:01:54] before I opened my own practice, kind of a, kind of a quick fun story. I

[00:02:00] kind of was forced into opening my own practice. I've always dreamed of it,

[00:02:04] but I didn't, you know, I didn't really pull the trigger until I was

[00:02:06] kind of forced to. I worked as a site manager for a company for a couple

[00:02:11] years and then a local really reputable doctor wanted me to come

[00:02:15] and manage practice for him. And he was offering me three days a week

[00:02:20] work. I was going from $54,000 up to $80,000 for three days work. It just

[00:02:26] seemed like a good opportunity. He was an extremely reputable doctor and

[00:02:29] he still is to this day really reputable around the world, cutting

[00:02:33] edge and great guy. And so anyway, I left my management position at

[00:02:39] this outpatient outfit and went to work at this place and it wasn't

[00:02:44] with him, but it was with a doctor that he had got into contract

[00:02:47] with. And so I walked in that day and this doctor, in so many words,

[00:02:52] was trying to pretty much promote fraud from day one. And so that

[00:02:59] didn't sit well with me. I've always been kind of a man of

[00:03:02] principle. So I knew I was walking out, my position had already

[00:03:05] been replaced at the other place. And when I had a family, a

[00:03:09] young family, my wife and you know, I don't even remember a couple,

[00:03:13] maybe two small kids at that time, but I don't even remember. It's

[00:03:17] been a blur, it's been a long career. But we had a small, you

[00:03:20] know, young family and there was really no other place in that

[00:03:24] area to go for a management position. I didn't want to go

[00:03:27] backwards. So I opened my own practice and patients that

[00:03:31] believed in me and invested $15,000 to get me started. And

[00:03:36] I was very reputable in the area that my, the position that I

[00:03:40] left, I was very reputable with patients and physicians in that

[00:03:44] area. So my first practice, I opened and went from that

[00:03:49] $54,000 a year to, I believe, $453,000 my first year in

[00:03:54] practice. I really grinded, I really worked hard. It was a

[00:03:58] lot of learning. I didn't know, I didn't have all the

[00:04:00] answers, you know, I didn't have all the answers. So you

[00:04:02] learn as you go. So anyway, that was the beginning. And

[00:04:04] then I ended up opening up, I think at one time, I had eight

[00:04:09] locations in total in upstate New York, I kind of grew to a

[00:04:13] point where I had 70 employees, eight locations, we

[00:04:18] would open and close a couple here and there if the center

[00:04:21] wasn't doing what we wanted it to do or wasn't fitting in

[00:04:24] the picture anymore. But lo and behold, we ended up

[00:04:27] opening eight centers, 70 employees, and had a great

[00:04:30] time. It was quite a journey learning as I go. Did a lot

[00:04:33] of good things.

[00:04:34] Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:04:36] Yeah, so that's New York. And then grew the practice to a

[00:04:40] really good level. You know, we I think we were ended up

[00:04:43] doing, we were small satellite centers, but multiple, I

[00:04:46] think, like we're up doing 2.7 million to 3 million a

[00:04:50] year. And I got to the point where I was fully staffed

[00:04:54] with a lot of great people. And I was able to move to

[00:04:57] Florida to be with my adult children, my daughter,

[00:05:00] Kayla, and my oldest son. And then we all moved down

[00:05:03] here. And I really didn't have to go back and forth

[00:05:05] to New York too much until you know, you find out as a

[00:05:08] practice owner, you know, you as well you find out as

[00:05:11] a practice owner that it's not all a joyride. There's

[00:05:14] a lot of really tough trying times and the

[00:05:16] reimbursement insurance reimbursement in upstate

[00:05:19] New York was really poor. And it was a very

[00:05:22] difficult thing to run a multi center practice in

[00:05:25] upstate New York, there were some insurance companies

[00:05:27] that we actually paid to treat the patients we were

[00:05:31] you know at a loss with this insurance, but we kept

[00:05:34] it for 20 plus years because you know we were

[00:05:37] doing our service, you know everybody else was

[00:05:38] throwing these people to the streets and we

[00:05:41] stayed doing it. And we were able to do it. And

[00:05:43] then something really big happened in well

[00:05:46] obviously 2020 the pandemic that was a disaster

[00:05:49] for everybody. But then another big hit in 2022

[00:05:52] when Medicare cut all the physical therapist

[00:05:54] assistant reimbursement. That was that was the

[00:05:57] second big hit. And then just recently in

[00:05:59] February of 2024, the cyber attack on change

[00:06:03] health care was a devastating blow to us

[00:06:06] probably worse than the pandemic. And so yeah,

[00:06:09] really bad. I mean we were down right from

[00:06:12] probably a couple weeks into the end of the

[00:06:14] cyber attack, we were down about $25,000 a

[00:06:17] week and we're still not up running complete

[00:06:20] you know, we're still trickling in my billing

[00:06:22] agency ended up going in and doing line item

[00:06:25] by line item, not using a clearinghouse at

[00:06:28] all just going to the portal for Medicare

[00:06:30] and Blue Cross and just trying to trickle in

[00:06:32] some reserves. And actually I just did funny

[00:06:35] yesterday I did a photo shoot with Fortune

[00:06:37] magazine they called me and wanted me to talk

[00:06:40] about the cyber attack and how it affected

[00:06:42] small practices and all that kind of stuff.

[00:06:44] So they called and interviewed me and then

[00:06:46] they sent a photographer to me either

[00:06:49] yesterday or the day before we did a whole

[00:06:50] photo shoot. So that story will be coming

[00:06:52] out pretty soon. But yeah, it was pretty

[00:06:54] monumental, pretty crazy. But I think the

[00:06:56] whole big story is listen, there's a lot

[00:06:58] of beautiful things about being in practice.

[00:07:01] But you got to have tough skin and you got

[00:07:03] to be able to know that when your face

[00:07:05] hits the pavement, it's don't walk away.

[00:07:08] You'd be a leader and you show your people

[00:07:10] that are working for you that we got

[00:07:12] this, you know, we got everything. And

[00:07:13] one of the parts of the story for Fortune

[00:07:15] magazine is and they wanted me to have a

[00:07:18] backpack because I remember in the first

[00:07:20] couple weeks of the cyber attack, I was

[00:07:22] carrying cash from Florida to make sure I

[00:07:25] made payroll for my employees. Pretty crazy.

[00:07:31] Hey everybody, let me cut straight to

[00:07:32] the point with this one. If you're looking

[00:07:34] to sell your business, your clinics in

[00:07:36] any way over the next two to five years,

[00:07:37] you need to reach out to my friends at

[00:07:39] multiple exit. Will Humphries and Scott

[00:07:42] Fritz are uniquely positioned to help you

[00:07:45] get the most out of your business when

[00:07:47] it comes time to sell. And if you are

[00:07:49] looking to sell in the next two to

[00:07:50] five years, now is the time to prepare.

[00:07:52] You need to reach out to them now. There

[00:07:54] are a number of things you need to

[00:07:55] consider. There are another number of

[00:07:57] things that you need to do to get the

[00:07:59] optimal value from your sale. So reach

[00:08:02] out to my friend Will Humphries, co-owner

[00:08:04] of multiple exit to maximize your

[00:08:06] future sale. Email him at will at

[00:08:08] unlock hba.com that's will at unlock

[00:08:12] h he is a boy a.com or call text him

[00:08:17] even at 480-248-5119. If you're

[00:08:23] looking to sell your clinics, now is

[00:08:25] the time to prepare. Reach out to

[00:08:26] them now.

[00:08:35] Yeah, I like what you mentioned about

[00:08:36] the hard times because I feel like

[00:08:39] we've all been there and they over yet.

[00:08:42] Right? They never stop, do they?

[00:08:44] They're not over. And you know what?

[00:08:45] It's it takes, you know, it takes and

[00:08:47] I know you do a great job. I don't

[00:08:49] know everything about your practice,

[00:08:50] but I know you're definitely a leader

[00:08:52] in this field bringing other

[00:08:53] professionals together. I actually

[00:08:55] respect you a lot for that.

[00:08:56] Thank you.

[00:08:56] But you're right. You're right,

[00:08:58] Adam. It's it's not if something

[00:09:00] bad is going to happen or if

[00:09:01] something hard is going to happen,

[00:09:03] it's when and how do we deal with

[00:09:05] how do we diversify? Like right now,

[00:09:07] I'm still in the middle of

[00:09:08] diversifying. I mean, I was 22 and

[00:09:09] a half years in practice and

[00:09:12] multiple centers and I'm still

[00:09:14] figuring stuff out because things

[00:09:16] change. And where we go like as

[00:09:18] a practice owner, if this is

[00:09:19] your livelihood, what's happening

[00:09:21] over the next five years? You

[00:09:22] know, consumers are changing,

[00:09:23] patient knowledge is changing.

[00:09:26] I know one of the reasons for

[00:09:28] my success in Delray Beach, my

[00:09:30] practice is because I'm using an

[00:09:32] innovative regenerative technology

[00:09:34] and people down here are

[00:09:37] completely fed up with

[00:09:38] cortisone shots, medication and

[00:09:39] surgery as their answers. And

[00:09:41] people with foot problems being

[00:09:43] orthotics are not just the

[00:09:45] only answer either. There's so

[00:09:46] many other things. And so

[00:09:48] population is getting not just

[00:09:51] not smarter, I think more aware

[00:09:53] that there's a lot of other

[00:09:54] regenerative things that they

[00:09:55] can do out there. And you

[00:09:57] know, insurance doesn't cover

[00:09:59] everything and that's kind of a

[00:10:00] good thing and a bad thing. I

[00:10:02] mean, we want insurance companies

[00:10:04] to cover things for patients.

[00:10:05] But at the same time, patients

[00:10:07] are willing to come out of

[00:10:08] pocket a lot of patients

[00:10:09] because they want the best for

[00:10:10] their health. And they realize

[00:10:12] that some of the things that

[00:10:12] insurance does cover isn't

[00:10:14] necessarily the solution that

[00:10:16] they want. So I'm down here in

[00:10:18] Florida, I'm perfectly

[00:10:19] positioned. We're doing it in

[00:10:20] New York too. But we've been

[00:10:22] with insurance companies for

[00:10:24] 22 and a half years so you

[00:10:25] don't just change your whole

[00:10:27] system overnight. You know, we

[00:10:29] did diversify, which is one

[00:10:31] of the things you do in tough

[00:10:32] times as you learn how to

[00:10:33] diversify your revenue

[00:10:35] sources so that you can not only

[00:10:36] survive. I mean, who wants to

[00:10:37] just survive? You want to

[00:10:39] thrive and become remain a

[00:10:41] force. And ultimately, I

[00:10:43] think at the end of the day,

[00:10:44] what it comes down to is,

[00:10:46] you know, I picture myself

[00:10:47] like if my eight centers

[00:10:48] weren't there all these years,

[00:10:49] I'm not saying that we have a

[00:10:51] lot of great physical

[00:10:51] therapists in my community,

[00:10:53] but I feel like we did a

[00:10:54] we did a great job for people

[00:10:56] and we've changed thousands

[00:10:57] and thousands of lives and

[00:10:58] that's important. You know, I

[00:10:59] want to leave a legacy. I

[00:11:00] don't I don't want to just

[00:11:02] be a business and cash out,

[00:11:04] you know. So we're still

[00:11:05] moving, still going. And I

[00:11:06] feel like we start like 52

[00:11:08] years old. God, I'm coming

[00:11:10] to the end of my career.

[00:11:11] And then you really think

[00:11:11] about it and say, listen, if

[00:11:12] I can stay healthy and do

[00:11:14] all these regenerative

[00:11:14] things and eat well and

[00:11:16] exercise, maybe a hundred is

[00:11:17] not out of the question.

[00:11:18] Maybe 90 is not out of the

[00:11:19] question.

[00:11:19] Squeeze a couple more years

[00:11:20] in.

[00:11:21] Yeah, maybe I'm just getting

[00:11:22] started. Who knows, right?

[00:11:23] But I love life. You know, I

[00:11:25] love people. I love my

[00:11:26] patients. So that's kind of

[00:11:27] where I'm at.

[00:11:28] Well, man, I've got a few

[00:11:29] questions that I want to

[00:11:31] get some clarity on because

[00:11:32] you touched on a few things

[00:11:33] that I you've been doing

[00:11:34] some amazing things yet and

[00:11:36] you've been through a lot.

[00:11:37] Right. So there's a lot of

[00:11:38] wisdom that you have.

[00:11:40] And I would, I mean, I

[00:11:42] don't have any data to

[00:11:43] back this up, but based on

[00:11:44] the number of practice

[00:11:45] owners that I speak with,

[00:11:46] I would say the vast

[00:11:48] majority of owners don't get

[00:11:50] to eight clinics and two

[00:11:52] point seven, three

[00:11:53] million dollars a year. Most

[00:11:53] of them are very small

[00:11:54] practices trying to trying

[00:11:56] to make it right.

[00:11:58] Right.

[00:11:58] The one thing that really

[00:12:00] impresses me is you had

[00:12:04] all you have that big

[00:12:05] company in New York and you

[00:12:06] were able to physically

[00:12:09] remove yourself from the

[00:12:10] company and not only

[00:12:11] physically remove yourself,

[00:12:12] but also travel south like

[00:12:15] a bunch of miles all over

[00:12:16] Florida. How did you do

[00:12:17] that? Like what are some of

[00:12:19] the things that you had to

[00:12:19] have in place in order to

[00:12:21] get that done?

[00:12:22] The shortest answer of all,

[00:12:24] I just had amazing people.

[00:12:27] When I interviewed PTs, I

[00:12:29] didn't look for the best

[00:12:31] education, the best

[00:12:32] continuing education. I

[00:12:33] looked for good people. I

[00:12:35] looked for really good

[00:12:36] people that would love my

[00:12:37] patients like I love my

[00:12:38] patients because that's what

[00:12:39] made me really, really

[00:12:40] popular in my area before

[00:12:42] I started opening

[00:12:42] practices was I really

[00:12:44] resonated with my

[00:12:45] patients and I wanted

[00:12:46] other people that were

[00:12:47] reputable and that would

[00:12:50] and I mean it, man, I

[00:12:51] mean if they just would

[00:12:52] love patients and not

[00:12:53] there just for a job.

[00:12:54] And I had a tremendous

[00:12:56] number of employees that

[00:12:57] were just great. You have

[00:12:58] people that come and go.

[00:13:00] You know that in my area

[00:13:01] was very difficult to

[00:13:02] attract and I would say

[00:13:03] that at one time, I mean

[00:13:05] I had 70 employees. I

[00:13:06] probably had the best,

[00:13:07] the cream of the crop of

[00:13:09] all the people in my

[00:13:10] company. And I still even

[00:13:12] now where I'm down to

[00:13:13] one mega center in New

[00:13:14] York, I'm no longer

[00:13:16] several clinics because

[00:13:17] of the way the industry

[00:13:18] is going. I'm continuing

[00:13:20] to reduce my risk and

[00:13:22] understand what practice

[00:13:24] is going to be successful

[00:13:25] going forward and big

[00:13:26] practices with a lot of

[00:13:28] capital, a lot of venture

[00:13:29] capital behind them,

[00:13:30] equity, investors, all

[00:13:32] that. If you have

[00:13:33] unlimited capital, you

[00:13:34] can grow 50, 80 centers,

[00:13:36] right? There's big

[00:13:37] companies out there. But

[00:13:39] for the little person,

[00:13:40] and I don't mean

[00:13:41] little physically. I mean

[00:13:43] I am a short guy, but

[00:13:44] what I mean is you've

[00:13:45] got a way in your life.

[00:13:47] You've got to weigh what

[00:13:48] risks you want to take.

[00:13:49] You have family at the

[00:13:50] end of the day. You

[00:13:51] have your family. You

[00:13:52] know, you want to live

[00:13:53] your life as well. And

[00:13:54] there's a lot of really

[00:13:56] tough things out there

[00:13:57] to consider. So I don't

[00:13:59] think the industry is

[00:13:59] the same anymore. I

[00:14:00] wouldn't do it again

[00:14:01] alone. I wouldn't open

[00:14:02] like people down in

[00:14:03] Florida. I'm like really

[00:14:04] busy in my practice.

[00:14:05] People always say,

[00:14:06] Oh, you should hire

[00:14:07] three more people and

[00:14:08] just slow down yourself.

[00:14:10] And I really don't want

[00:14:11] to do that because

[00:14:12] I've done that for 22

[00:14:13] and a half years. And

[00:14:14] it was a great

[00:14:15] experience. But I think

[00:14:16] I think right now it's

[00:14:17] going to take a lot of

[00:14:19] a lot of thought on

[00:14:21] where we're going in the

[00:14:21] future, where I'm going

[00:14:23] to fit in in the future

[00:14:24] without patient PT.

[00:14:25] But the answer to get

[00:14:27] back to your question

[00:14:28] is I had really good

[00:14:29] people. And I always

[00:14:30] like to say that I

[00:14:31] always tried to hire

[00:14:32] people that were just

[00:14:33] a cut above myself.

[00:14:34] And I and I

[00:14:36] and I really believe

[00:14:37] that I really believe

[00:14:38] that these guys were

[00:14:38] great. I had I had

[00:14:39] several people I could

[00:14:40] name them all, but I

[00:14:41] won't name them all.

[00:14:42] But they were just

[00:14:43] and I still have a

[00:14:44] couple probably a

[00:14:45] handful of people that

[00:14:46] were with me for a

[00:14:48] long time that still

[00:14:49] but when it comes down

[00:14:50] to it, Adam, how do

[00:14:51] you keep those good

[00:14:52] people? Right? How do

[00:14:53] you attract good people?

[00:14:54] Well, I also, you

[00:14:55] know, a lot of

[00:14:56] businesses put

[00:14:57] productivity first.

[00:14:58] They put numbers

[00:14:59] first, and I never

[00:15:00] did that. I never

[00:15:01] you know, I always

[00:15:02] respected my employees

[00:15:04] family life and I

[00:15:05] bent the rules and I

[00:15:06] loved being a practice

[00:15:07] owner because I could

[00:15:08] bend the rules all I

[00:15:09] wanted. And I was

[00:15:10] fair like I like it

[00:15:11] was equal with

[00:15:12] everybody. But I would

[00:15:13] bend the rules if I

[00:15:14] had a woman that

[00:15:15] her dad died. What's

[00:15:16] this three days

[00:15:16] grievance four days

[00:15:18] he was out for a

[00:15:18] month. I didn't care.

[00:15:20] I wanted her to be

[00:15:21] with her family. They

[00:15:22] were struggling. The

[00:15:22] mom was struggling.

[00:15:23] No problem. I held

[00:15:24] her job. Did I charge

[00:15:25] her PTO? No, I didn't

[00:15:26] charge her PTO. And

[00:15:27] I would do it for every

[00:15:28] single one of my

[00:15:29] staff. I had two

[00:15:30] guys that were with

[00:15:31] me for 10 and 15

[00:15:33] years respectively.

[00:15:34] And at that point,

[00:15:35] we held a ceremony

[00:15:36] and the guy that

[00:15:37] was with me for 15

[00:15:38] years, I paid 15

[00:15:40] months of his home

[00:15:41] mortgage as a

[00:15:42] loyalty thank you.

[00:15:44] And the guy 10

[00:15:45] years, I paid 10

[00:15:46] years, 10 months of

[00:15:47] his personal mortgage.

[00:15:48] And that was my way

[00:15:49] of saying, Hey,

[00:15:50] thanks for 10 years.

[00:15:51] Thanks for 15 years.

[00:15:52] You too. And they

[00:15:53] work. Those two

[00:15:53] guys were cream of

[00:15:55] the crop. They were

[00:15:56] amazing with patients.

[00:15:58] Best one was a PTA,

[00:15:59] one was a PT and

[00:16:01] they were amazing.

[00:16:01] And I always,

[00:16:02] always told my

[00:16:03] staff that I loved

[00:16:04] them and I still do.

[00:16:05] And I think if you

[00:16:06] create that kind of

[00:16:07] a culture where you

[00:16:08] really care about

[00:16:09] your staff and their

[00:16:10] life outside of the

[00:16:12] practice, just as

[00:16:13] much as you do is

[00:16:14] the numbers and

[00:16:14] productivity, the

[00:16:15] money comes, you

[00:16:17] know, popular,

[00:16:18] you know what I mean?

[00:16:19] I love it.

[00:16:20] The reputation comes

[00:16:21] with those people.

[00:16:22] Yeah. So I had a

[00:16:24] coaching call this

[00:16:25] morning with a client

[00:16:26] who, as you

[00:16:28] can might imagine,

[00:16:29] we're talking about

[00:16:29] recruiting because

[00:16:31] everybody's trying to

[00:16:32] hire somebody.

[00:16:32] Right?

[00:16:33] Yeah, no kidding.

[00:16:34] And you know, it's

[00:16:34] like, what do

[00:16:36] owners want or let

[00:16:39] me back that up.

[00:16:40] What do employees

[00:16:41] want? Right.

[00:16:42] And what you can

[00:16:43] really, you can

[00:16:44] break that down

[00:16:45] into two main

[00:16:46] categories.

[00:16:47] They want to be

[00:16:48] around amazing people,

[00:16:49] culture, mentorship,

[00:16:51] support, right?

[00:16:52] They want to be heard.

[00:16:53] They want to be

[00:16:54] connected to like

[00:16:56] the heartbeat of the company.

[00:16:58] They want to belong,

[00:16:59] right?

[00:16:59] And then the other

[00:17:00] stuff is like all

[00:17:01] the details,

[00:17:02] like the pay,

[00:17:03] the types of

[00:17:03] patients, the

[00:17:04] schedule, the flight,

[00:17:05] blah, blah, blah,

[00:17:06] blah, blah, blah,

[00:17:06] right?

[00:17:06] Right, right.

[00:17:07] And when we,

[00:17:09] when we talk about

[00:17:10] recruiting all the

[00:17:10] time, my question's

[00:17:11] always like, well,

[00:17:12] what's the most

[00:17:12] important thing?

[00:17:13] And it's like, we

[00:17:14] get in this mindset

[00:17:15] of, well, they

[00:17:15] want to get paid and

[00:17:17] they want to have a

[00:17:18] good schedule and

[00:17:19] they want, and it's

[00:17:19] like, that's not true.

[00:17:21] You know what I mean?

[00:17:21] Like people want

[00:17:23] to be around amazing

[00:17:24] people more than anything.

[00:17:26] Right?

[00:17:26] They do.

[00:17:27] And they want,

[00:17:27] and they want to be

[00:17:28] paid fairly, but

[00:17:29] they don't have to,

[00:17:29] but right, there's

[00:17:31] people out there that

[00:17:32] do, there's people

[00:17:32] out there that are

[00:17:33] money hungry and

[00:17:34] that know, they

[00:17:35] know the market and

[00:17:35] they want to take

[00:17:36] you for everything

[00:17:37] you get.

[00:17:37] There's people that

[00:17:39] have a sense of

[00:17:39] entitlement and those

[00:17:41] people may not be

[00:17:41] for your company,

[00:17:42] but for the

[00:17:42] grand majority of

[00:17:43] the people, I

[00:17:43] agree with you 100%.

[00:17:45] There's a lot more

[00:17:46] to a job than just

[00:17:47] those details that

[00:17:48] you're talking about.

[00:17:49] But I, but the

[00:17:50] first thing that you

[00:17:50] said was incredibly

[00:17:52] important.

[00:17:53] Yeah, it's like,

[00:17:54] listen, whether you're

[00:17:55] deciding to hire

[00:17:56] somebody, whether

[00:17:56] you're deciding to

[00:17:57] outsource and work

[00:17:58] with a vendor,

[00:17:59] whether it's billing

[00:18:00] or a biller or

[00:18:01] marketing, a digital

[00:18:01] marketing agency

[00:18:02] or whatever it is.

[00:18:03] Like at the end of

[00:18:04] the day, the

[00:18:05] most important

[00:18:06] thing is like,

[00:18:07] are there value

[00:18:08] alignment between

[00:18:09] me and this person?

[00:18:10] Like, is this

[00:18:10] a good relationship?

[00:18:12] Huge.

[00:18:13] And if you get that

[00:18:14] right, all the

[00:18:15] details usually

[00:18:17] work themselves out.

[00:18:18] It's like you're

[00:18:19] gambling on people,

[00:18:21] like gamble on people

[00:18:22] and invest in your people,

[00:18:23] grow your people

[00:18:24] to grow your company.

[00:18:25] Right?

[00:18:25] So I love that

[00:18:26] about you.

[00:18:27] And that's, I'm not

[00:18:27] the smartest guy

[00:18:28] in the world.

[00:18:29] I have my

[00:18:29] opinions about things,

[00:18:31] but one of them

[00:18:32] for now at least

[00:18:33] is if you love

[00:18:35] on your people

[00:18:36] and you really

[00:18:37] focus on your people

[00:18:38] and you maximize

[00:18:39] alignment there,

[00:18:40] you're going to

[00:18:40] make more money.

[00:18:41] You're going to

[00:18:41] grow your business.

[00:18:42] You're going to

[00:18:43] basically do

[00:18:44] whatever you want to do.

[00:18:45] Absolutely.

[00:18:46] So I love that.

[00:18:47] I love that.

[00:18:48] It's funny how it

[00:18:49] comes back to

[00:18:50] simplicity, right?

[00:18:51] It doesn't have

[00:18:51] to be complicated.

[00:18:52] You just have to

[00:18:53] treat people like people

[00:18:54] and care about them

[00:18:55] in their lifestyle

[00:18:56] just as much

[00:18:56] as you do your business.

[00:18:57] And it's pretty,

[00:18:58] like you said,

[00:18:59] the rest takes

[00:19:00] care of itself.

[00:19:01] It's pretty crazy,

[00:19:02] but it's simple like that.

[00:19:04] Well, it gets crazy

[00:19:05] in our heads.

[00:19:06] It gets crazy

[00:19:06] on our heads.

[00:19:07] You know, it's like,

[00:19:07] oh my God,

[00:19:08] should I do this?

[00:19:09] Should I do this?

[00:19:09] Should I do that?

[00:19:10] Is this a good fit?

[00:19:11] Should I, you know,

[00:19:11] is this a good opportunity?

[00:19:13] And it's like,

[00:19:14] let's just back up

[00:19:14] and ask ourselves,

[00:19:15] are these good people?

[00:19:16] There you go.

[00:19:17] You know what I mean?

[00:19:18] The answer is yes,

[00:19:19] then you got to

[00:19:20] take a risk on that.

[00:19:21] And the other thing

[00:19:21] I think we,

[00:19:22] if you don't mind.

[00:19:23] Sure, go ahead.

[00:19:24] That I learned along the way

[00:19:26] that wasn't always obvious to me

[00:19:28] and talk about,

[00:19:29] I always thought

[00:19:29] I was pretty smart guy too,

[00:19:30] but you know,

[00:19:31] you learn as you go.

[00:19:32] You're not as smart.

[00:19:33] You're smart,

[00:19:34] but you learn

[00:19:35] more about yourself

[00:19:36] as a leader

[00:19:36] and you back up

[00:19:37] and you say, well, wait a minute,

[00:19:38] this person can't be managed

[00:19:40] the same way

[00:19:40] that person can be managed.

[00:19:42] And everybody

[00:19:43] responds differently

[00:19:44] and you got it.

[00:19:44] You know, one of the skills

[00:19:45] that I think

[00:19:46] that I could still use.

[00:19:47] Is learning how

[00:19:49] different people tick

[00:19:51] and how do you really?

[00:19:52] And obviously there's policies

[00:19:54] and you got to kind of stay above

[00:19:55] board with every pay,

[00:19:56] but different people

[00:19:58] respond differently

[00:19:59] to different types of feedback,

[00:20:00] different incentives,

[00:20:02] the way you talk to them,

[00:20:03] the way you respect them,

[00:20:04] the opportunities

[00:20:05] that you give them.

[00:20:06] I mean, there's so many

[00:20:07] different things about managing

[00:20:08] people differently

[00:20:09] instead of across the board.

[00:20:11] Everybody gets managed

[00:20:12] the same way.

[00:20:12] I'm a fanatic with that.

[00:20:15] Yeah, it's like emotional intelligence.

[00:20:17] You know, it's like that's amazing.

[00:20:19] You're like I had a coach

[00:20:20] tell me one time EQ

[00:20:21] is the new IQ.

[00:20:22] Emotional intelligence

[00:20:23] is the new IQ.

[00:20:24] And I'm probably making this up.

[00:20:26] You guys can,

[00:20:27] if who are listening,

[00:20:27] you guys can Google it.

[00:20:28] In fact, check me if you want.

[00:20:29] But I would be willing to bet

[00:20:31] that your EQ,

[00:20:32] your emotional intelligence

[00:20:34] is more correlated

[00:20:35] to your income

[00:20:37] than your IQ is.

[00:20:38] Your ability to understand others

[00:20:40] and how they tick

[00:20:41] and what their personalities are like

[00:20:43] and how you can influence them

[00:20:44] and help them

[00:20:46] be the best versions of themselves.

[00:20:47] And lead them like that is

[00:20:50] the skill set

[00:20:51] that all great business owners have.

[00:20:53] The Johnny Rockefellers

[00:20:55] and that's what they do.

[00:20:56] Right, right.

[00:20:57] Dale Carnegie, he wrote How to Win

[00:20:58] Friends and Influence People.

[00:20:59] What do you think?

[00:21:00] What do you think that's about?

[00:21:01] The whole the whole book

[00:21:02] is about how to make

[00:21:02] other people feel good.

[00:21:03] Do you remember

[00:21:04] when you read that book?

[00:21:05] I read that book

[00:21:06] when I was in PT school.

[00:21:07] I don't even remember

[00:21:08] when I read it, but it was

[00:21:09] at least two decades ago.

[00:21:10] Yeah, I've got to read it.

[00:21:12] Yeah, and we do, right?

[00:21:13] We do.

[00:21:13] We've got to go back

[00:21:14] and read those

[00:21:15] the power of now.

[00:21:16] And what is it?

[00:21:18] Napoleon Hills.

[00:21:19] Thinking Rich.

[00:21:20] Yeah, I mean, just so many great

[00:21:22] old classic books

[00:21:23] they can learn from good to great.

[00:21:25] You ever read that book?

[00:21:26] Yeah, Jim Collins.

[00:21:28] Yeah, that was a great book too.

[00:21:30] I mean, just and there's so many

[00:21:32] that you're like,

[00:21:32] you look back and you're like,

[00:21:33] man, I didn't read that.

[00:21:34] I didn't read that.

[00:21:35] I read that.

[00:21:35] I mean, books are books are huge.

[00:21:38] Shape us.

[00:21:39] I have a other sidebar question.

[00:21:41] It's obvious that you had to place

[00:21:44] some amazing people

[00:21:45] in that clinic

[00:21:46] that you trusted, that you knew

[00:21:47] that you didn't have to micromanage.

[00:21:48] You could just kind of

[00:21:49] let them run with things.

[00:21:50] Maybe some some

[00:21:51] some type of leadership team.

[00:21:53] Do you have a partner?

[00:21:54] Is there some equity shares

[00:21:56] or a profit share?

[00:21:57] Like how do you have that

[00:21:57] set up with your leaders?

[00:21:59] No equity, no legitimate equity.

[00:22:01] But I do pay when I diversify.

[00:22:04] You know, when you again

[00:22:05] in upstate New York,

[00:22:07] the reimbursement was so small.

[00:22:09] That's the other thing

[00:22:10] that was the difficult thing

[00:22:11] about running the practice is

[00:22:13] and the more you can make

[00:22:14] your employees understand

[00:22:16] the business end of things

[00:22:17] and they understand margins

[00:22:19] and they understand where

[00:22:20] there's not a lot of room for things

[00:22:22] when the reimbursement

[00:22:23] so impoverished.

[00:22:24] You know, some understood

[00:22:26] it and grasped it.

[00:22:26] And some some people along the way

[00:22:28] just didn't really care about it.

[00:22:29] They just wanted what they wanted.

[00:22:31] And you know, that was it.

[00:22:32] But it truly did.

[00:22:34] You know, I had one leader,

[00:22:35] actually the guy that was with me

[00:22:37] for 10 years

[00:22:37] and I paid 10 years of his mortgage.

[00:22:39] And this goes back

[00:22:40] to what we were talking about.

[00:22:41] How much people always say things to him.

[00:22:43] He was my he was a clinical director

[00:22:45] and I always would say things to him

[00:22:47] that for me I got.

[00:22:48] It was pretty easy and common sense.

[00:22:50] And this guy was really smart in it.

[00:22:52] I mean, like tremendously smart,

[00:22:53] really smart, certainly smarter than me.

[00:22:55] But do you know?

[00:22:55] And he had some performance issues.

[00:22:58] Matter of fact, we tell the story.

[00:22:59] There was one time

[00:23:00] I was going to let him go

[00:23:01] and he was great.

[00:23:02] He was probably one of the best

[00:23:03] physical therapists I ever met in my life.

[00:23:04] And it wasn't really

[00:23:05] that he was doing anything wrong.

[00:23:07] It's just that I didn't get through to him

[00:23:09] because I didn't figure it out.

[00:23:11] You know, and I figured it out

[00:23:12] when I taught him

[00:23:13] how much a 12 inch piece of toilet paper

[00:23:16] came out of each visit,

[00:23:17] how much it costs for a piece of toilet paper.

[00:23:20] And when you subtract that

[00:23:21] by what you're getting per visit,

[00:23:23] per revenue, you know,

[00:23:24] everything has a cost to it

[00:23:26] and everything has to come out

[00:23:27] of that visit revenue.

[00:23:28] And when I did that,

[00:23:29] the guy like did a 360

[00:23:31] and he never had a problem again.

[00:23:33] Like it was amazing.

[00:23:34] But I had to break it down to say,

[00:23:36] hey, look, that air freshener

[00:23:38] comes out of the visit.

[00:23:39] That comes out of the visit.

[00:23:40] That comes out of the visit.

[00:23:41] And, you know, he understood that.

[00:23:42] So so incentives.

[00:23:44] When I got into the cash

[00:23:45] based stuff, this opened up

[00:23:46] a whole different ballgame

[00:23:48] because now there's profit margin

[00:23:50] in this cash based innovation.

[00:23:53] A lot of profit margin.

[00:23:54] It's a great technology and left room.

[00:23:57] And I'm not a greedy guy.

[00:23:58] And being the employer

[00:23:58] that I always have been,

[00:24:00] I said, listen,

[00:24:00] there's going to be a profit

[00:24:02] share to this cash

[00:24:03] based side of the business

[00:24:04] that opens it up.

[00:24:05] I mean, these people can make

[00:24:07] I had one therapist.

[00:24:08] I offered her kind of a partner,

[00:24:10] but not a partner.

[00:24:11] Matter of fact, after Medicare

[00:24:13] caught PTAs and was such

[00:24:15] a monumental cut for us.

[00:24:17] And I had to disrupt

[00:24:18] the business model.

[00:24:19] I actually offered employees

[00:24:21] a partnership without a partnership

[00:24:23] like it wasn't a legal partnership

[00:24:24] and they weren't legally

[00:24:25] having equity in the company.

[00:24:27] But they got treated like a partner.

[00:24:29] So they would actually

[00:24:30] they'd get a ten thousand dollar raise.

[00:24:32] They would get anything above

[00:24:34] a quota that they did.

[00:24:35] They would get X

[00:24:36] number of dollars of profit share.

[00:24:38] I mean, I had one girl

[00:24:39] that was making really good money.

[00:24:40] I mean, total all in

[00:24:41] with insurance and everything.

[00:24:43] She was like one hundred

[00:24:43] and twenty four thousand dollars a year.

[00:24:45] And she was like,

[00:24:46] I don't know, every eight weeks

[00:24:48] cashing in four to six hundred dollars.

[00:24:50] And so when you have profit

[00:24:52] in a company

[00:24:53] and you're not greedy,

[00:24:54] you can share.

[00:24:55] But you have to somehow

[00:24:57] in the PTA industry,

[00:24:58] we've got to find

[00:24:59] that room in the profit margin.

[00:25:01] Obviously, the profit margin

[00:25:03] shrinking in the industry

[00:25:04] with insurance based practice.

[00:25:06] It's shrinking.

[00:25:06] So we really have to, you know,

[00:25:08] and it really comes down to that.

[00:25:09] Right. At the end of the day,

[00:25:11] there's revenue and expenses.

[00:25:12] And at the end of the day,

[00:25:13] there's only so much left over.

[00:25:14] I always taught my therapist.

[00:25:16] I said, listen, not just therapists,

[00:25:18] but everybody else.

[00:25:18] Listen, if my payroll is

[00:25:20] thirty thousand dollars every Friday

[00:25:22] and everybody here on this team

[00:25:25] wants a five percent raise

[00:25:26] or four percent to the mass

[00:25:28] and rightfully so.

[00:25:29] I mean, they want to progress too.

[00:25:31] Right. But if you add

[00:25:32] five percent to thirty thousand dollars

[00:25:34] and you do that every year,

[00:25:36] we're a dying ship

[00:25:37] unless we're increasing profitability

[00:25:38] or increasing revenues.

[00:25:40] Right.

[00:25:40] Yeah, you can't.

[00:25:41] I mean, five percent.

[00:25:42] I mean, do the math on it

[00:25:43] if that keeps going.

[00:25:44] And there's no increase

[00:25:45] in reimbursement, in fact,

[00:25:46] decrease in going down.

[00:25:48] Right. Right. Right.

[00:25:49] So like how, you know,

[00:25:50] I tell people if we all

[00:25:52] are in this together,

[00:25:53] it's not employer versus employee.

[00:25:55] It's like understand,

[00:25:56] but they have to understand

[00:25:57] the economics of it,

[00:25:59] because if they don't,

[00:26:00] they don't understand why.

[00:26:01] I don't want you to be productive

[00:26:02] and do this and reduce your no

[00:26:04] showing cancel rates

[00:26:05] and make sure your units are good.

[00:26:07] I mean, don't overbill,

[00:26:08] but don't underbill all

[00:26:10] the different things that

[00:26:11] all the metrics that we look at.

[00:26:12] It's so critically important

[00:26:14] because you want that five percent

[00:26:16] raise or that eight percent raise.

[00:26:18] We've got to pay for that with profits.

[00:26:19] If we don't, we're a dying ship.

[00:26:21] We'll all be out of business.

[00:26:23] Well, let's talk about that,

[00:26:25] because I know you were able

[00:26:27] to completely change

[00:26:29] your business model,

[00:26:30] which is amazing in itself.

[00:26:32] And then not only that,

[00:26:33] you started a new cash pay.

[00:26:36] You added some cash

[00:26:37] pay services to your clinic.

[00:26:38] You moved to Florida and now you have

[00:26:40] a cash pay clinic in Florida, right?

[00:26:42] Yes.

[00:26:43] I am credentialed with Medicare here.

[00:26:45] OK.

[00:26:45] But other than Medicare,

[00:26:47] obviously our hands are tied

[00:26:48] with the whole can't charge

[00:26:50] Medicare cash,

[00:26:50] but it is an uncovered service.

[00:26:52] So it's not it's not really part of that.

[00:26:54] But but you still get Medicare

[00:26:56] people that want to do it.

[00:26:57] And right now I'm so busy down here

[00:26:59] with with SoftWave

[00:27:00] that our Facebook marketing campaigns

[00:27:02] we target customers

[00:27:04] that are 64 and below

[00:27:05] just because we don't want

[00:27:06] to muddy the waters.

[00:27:07] It's it's a tough situation,

[00:27:08] you know, and we don't want to get into the

[00:27:10] we don't want to get caught up

[00:27:11] in the game of what skilled care

[00:27:13] and what's not skilled care

[00:27:14] and what's covered service.

[00:27:16] What's an uncovered shot?

[00:27:17] I just don't want to

[00:27:18] why money the water if you don't have to.

[00:27:20] And I refer people

[00:27:21] like I take Medicare,

[00:27:23] but I refer people

[00:27:24] to other therapists in this area.

[00:27:25] If I think they need three times

[00:27:27] a week for six, eight weeks

[00:27:28] and they want they need balance training.

[00:27:30] I'll refer to another physical therapist

[00:27:32] to do all that traditional work

[00:27:33] and I'll just do SoftWave.

[00:27:36] I'm assuming that's a

[00:27:38] margins are a lot different

[00:27:39] down there in Florida

[00:27:40] and your new practice.

[00:27:41] Yeah, and they're different

[00:27:42] in New York as well with cash base.

[00:27:44] So when it's cash based

[00:27:45] and you find out,

[00:27:46] I never thought

[00:27:47] because my reimbursement

[00:27:48] was so impoverished

[00:27:49] in upstate New York,

[00:27:50] I never ever considered

[00:27:52] any part of a cash base program

[00:27:54] because people balked at it.

[00:27:55] But you but really what drives it

[00:27:57] is the digital marketing campaign.

[00:27:59] I mean, it's night and day different.

[00:28:00] If I just put this

[00:28:01] SoftWave machine in a clinic

[00:28:03] and people did their traditional marketing

[00:28:05] and just marketed it

[00:28:06] to their existing people

[00:28:08] and put flyers in a local sub shop

[00:28:10] and told the doctor about it.

[00:28:12] Like none of that would would work.

[00:28:15] I mean, you really need this day and age.

[00:28:17] If you don't have

[00:28:17] a good digital marketing program,

[00:28:19] you're missing out because

[00:28:20] I mean, just today

[00:28:22] I got 10 new leads

[00:28:24] in Florida just today

[00:28:25] and probably six of those

[00:28:27] are going to come in front of

[00:28:28] I've scheduled five already today

[00:28:30] out of those 10

[00:28:31] and they're coming in

[00:28:32] and people are doing it

[00:28:33] and same thing upstate New York.

[00:28:35] But it's a because we have to

[00:28:37] level the playing field.

[00:28:38] We have to get to the consumers

[00:28:39] and bring them in.

[00:28:40] And yeah, the profit

[00:28:41] margin is totally different.

[00:28:43] I mean, you know, if I'm seeing

[00:28:44] my average soft wave treatment

[00:28:46] is one hundred and fifty nine bucks.

[00:28:47] And if it's just SoftWave,

[00:28:49] I'm not doing any traditional PT.

[00:28:51] SoftWave takes about eight minutes,

[00:28:53] you know, so you block 15.

[00:28:54] You can see four people in an hour

[00:28:56] and make six hundred

[00:28:57] and forty dollars an hour.

[00:28:58] That's a nice deal.

[00:29:00] It's unbelievable.

[00:29:01] And if SoftWave alone is the answer,

[00:29:03] then that's beautiful.

[00:29:04] And I feel good about it.

[00:29:05] People get better.

[00:29:05] But if somebody does need it,

[00:29:07] I'll block out probably a half hour

[00:29:09] to do all my other stuff.

[00:29:10] And I really don't

[00:29:11] charge any more for that.

[00:29:12] I don't participate

[00:29:13] with any insurance companies

[00:29:14] down here other than Medicare.

[00:29:15] But if it's a Blue Cross

[00:29:16] or whatever the other

[00:29:18] insurance companies,

[00:29:19] if somebody buys SoftWave from me,

[00:29:20] I throw all the other stuff in.

[00:29:22] Do you get referrals

[00:29:23] from physicians down there?

[00:29:25] No, none, zero.

[00:29:27] And it's because I did have a

[00:29:29] when I first started,

[00:29:30] I was doing SoftWave in people's homes.

[00:29:32] I did a mobile practice.

[00:29:33] But the mobile practice

[00:29:35] is not a good business model

[00:29:37] in my experience.

[00:29:38] I know there's a lot of people

[00:29:39] out there that do it.

[00:29:40] But what I noticed myself is

[00:29:42] when I first started,

[00:29:43] I took Medicare and that's all I did.

[00:29:45] I did in-home care,

[00:29:46] not with SoftWave,

[00:29:47] but when I started my practice down there,

[00:29:49] I didn't even have SoftWave yet.

[00:29:50] But I was taking Medicare

[00:29:52] and down here was about an average

[00:29:53] of like one hundred and two dollars

[00:29:55] for an hour treatment for four units.

[00:29:57] And, you know, I would travel

[00:29:59] to somebody's house for 30 to 40 minutes

[00:30:02] by, you know, with traffic and everything.

[00:30:03] By the time you get there,

[00:30:04] it's 30 to 40 minutes,

[00:30:05] 30 to 40 minutes back.

[00:30:07] And then you're getting

[00:30:07] a hundred bucks for an hour treatment.

[00:30:09] And it's like it turned out

[00:30:10] to be no capacity.

[00:30:12] And the profit margin was

[00:30:14] eaten up with drive time

[00:30:15] and your capacity to see patients.

[00:30:18] If you really add it up

[00:30:19] and it's an hour a day

[00:30:20] per patient that you go to,

[00:30:21] how many patients can you really see?

[00:30:23] Right. You know, and help.

[00:30:24] So at the end of the day,

[00:30:26] it's a no brainer.

[00:30:27] Now in Florida,

[00:30:29] which I think this is the smartest thing

[00:30:30] in the world when I talk to people

[00:30:32] that want to open their own practice.

[00:30:34] When I first started,

[00:30:35] I wanted the clinic.

[00:30:36] I wanted a beautiful place.

[00:30:37] I wanted the lease.

[00:30:38] I wanted the brick and mortar.

[00:30:39] But what I learned over 22

[00:30:41] and a half years

[00:30:42] and what's beautiful here

[00:30:43] is they've got these co spaces now

[00:30:45] where it's 16 medical suites

[00:30:48] and about 20 different types

[00:30:50] of professionals is very interdisciplinary.

[00:30:52] There's massage therapists

[00:30:53] and waxers and MDs and psychotherapists.

[00:30:57] And we all just basically

[00:30:58] rent medical suites

[00:31:00] like the one I'm in right now.

[00:31:01] I'm in I'm in one right now.

[00:31:03] I pay $18 an hour

[00:31:05] for a medical suite.

[00:31:06] I don't pay Internet.

[00:31:07] I don't pay utilities.

[00:31:08] I don't have a lease.

[00:31:09] I just pay as I go.

[00:31:10] And it's professional.

[00:31:11] It's got an electric massage table

[00:31:13] and they provide all the paper towels

[00:31:15] and sanitizer and everything.

[00:31:17] And I store my soft wave machine here.

[00:31:18] And it's like at the end of the day,

[00:31:20] there's no risk.

[00:31:21] There's no overhead.

[00:31:22] I can walk away next week

[00:31:24] and not have any risk at all.

[00:31:26] And it's very reasonable.

[00:31:27] $18 an hour.

[00:31:28] And if you're making

[00:31:29] if you see in three soft wave

[00:31:31] patients an hour,

[00:31:32] you're making over $400 to $500 an hour

[00:31:35] and you're paying $18 for a room.

[00:31:37] Now, to me, in the PT industry,

[00:31:40] we've never had those odds.

[00:31:42] It's never been like that.

[00:31:43] It's always been, oh, my God,

[00:31:44] we got to scrape pennies here,

[00:31:45] scrape pennies here

[00:31:46] just to get that profit margin up.

[00:31:48] But here it's a no brainer.

[00:31:49] Just practice.

[00:31:50] I'm probably three and a half

[00:31:52] to three and three quarter days per week.

[00:31:54] I don't have all the fancy machines,

[00:31:56] but I don't need it.

[00:31:57] I have my hands.

[00:31:58] I've been a manual therapist for 28 years

[00:32:01] and I have the soft wave machine

[00:32:02] and me and the soft wave machine

[00:32:04] are a great team

[00:32:05] and we get people better, great outcomes.

[00:32:07] We're still helping people

[00:32:09] and we're making beaucoup dollars.

[00:32:10] I mean, probably going to do

[00:32:12] six hundred and fifty to seven

[00:32:14] hundred thousand dollars

[00:32:15] and my expenses are about one hundred

[00:32:17] and eighty eight thousand.

[00:32:18] Good for you, man. That's awesome.

[00:32:19] And you know what the answer

[00:32:20] you know what the expenses is?

[00:32:22] It's about twelve thousand five

[00:32:23] hundred dollars a month

[00:32:24] in Facebook ad spend.

[00:32:26] In Florida, that's what I started with three

[00:32:28] thousand.

[00:32:29] But anybody that gets out there

[00:32:30] and does digital marketing,

[00:32:31] you have a really good digital marketer.

[00:32:33] If you're spending twelve thousand five

[00:32:35] hundred, you should have a commensurate

[00:32:37] revenue generation for that, of course.

[00:32:39] And not just throwing twelve

[00:32:40] thousand dollars at radio ads

[00:32:42] and billboards and all that.

[00:32:43] I have, you know, I have dialed

[00:32:45] into this this digital marketing company

[00:32:47] and it's unbelievable.

[00:32:49] So when your biggest expenses

[00:32:51] Facebook ads, you know,

[00:32:52] you're doing all right.

[00:32:53] Yeah. So it's like everything shifts.

[00:32:56] Everything shifts.

[00:32:57] So instead of spending all your money

[00:32:59] on payroll and operations,

[00:33:03] rent, utilities, overhead,

[00:33:05] you're spending your money on marketing.

[00:33:07] That's it. Get into the consumer first,

[00:33:09] which, be honest with you,

[00:33:10] that's how I got the eight centers.

[00:33:11] I was always a consumer

[00:33:13] director in marketing.

[00:33:14] I always tell people,

[00:33:16] how do you get this position

[00:33:17] to start referring to you?

[00:33:18] How do you get, you know,

[00:33:19] this physician has already

[00:33:20] got a relationship.

[00:33:21] They got their own PT.

[00:33:22] I said, OK, no problem,

[00:33:23] because if you get to that,

[00:33:24] if you get to that patient

[00:33:25] first on the street and they like you

[00:33:28] and you're legitimate,

[00:33:29] you're not you're not blowing.

[00:33:30] You know, it's not

[00:33:31] smoke and mirrors with you.

[00:33:32] You're a real quality therapist

[00:33:34] that's going to give them

[00:33:35] good valued care

[00:33:36] and you're not there just for the money.

[00:33:38] They're going to love you

[00:33:38] and they're going to stay with you.

[00:33:39] And when they go to their doctor,

[00:33:40] they're going to tell the doctor,

[00:33:42] oh, I already had my physical therapist.

[00:33:44] Thank you, though.

[00:33:44] And that's what we have to do

[00:33:45] is get to the consumer.

[00:33:46] We got to educate the consumers

[00:33:48] and let them know what we do,

[00:33:49] because there are bad actors

[00:33:51] in every profession

[00:33:52] and there's people out there

[00:33:53] that are that give us a bad name.

[00:33:54] For example, like employees

[00:33:56] that want to work for a good employer.

[00:33:58] Well, employees don't want

[00:34:00] to be productivity vehicles.

[00:34:01] Physical therapists

[00:34:02] want to be physical therapists.

[00:34:03] That's what we went to school for now

[00:34:06] in defense of the employers,

[00:34:07] because I like now

[00:34:08] I'm getting to the point

[00:34:09] in my career where I'm actually

[00:34:10] I want I want employees

[00:34:11] to go open their own practices.

[00:34:12] That's kind of my next phase

[00:34:14] of my life. The next 10 years.

[00:34:15] I want to help employees

[00:34:17] not be employees anymore.

[00:34:18] I want them to open

[00:34:19] their own practice.

[00:34:19] So and I know the best

[00:34:21] and the worst of both.

[00:34:22] But in defense of the employers,

[00:34:24] it's not easy.

[00:34:25] But right, you're an employer.

[00:34:27] It's it's not easy.

[00:34:28] We there's a ton behind

[00:34:29] the scenes that a lot of employees

[00:34:31] don't realize.

[00:34:32] It's huge.

[00:34:33] It's a lot of work.

[00:34:33] Like even in New York State,

[00:34:35] even an employee I have right now.

[00:34:36] Great guy.

[00:34:37] He's known me for a while.

[00:34:38] Hey, guess what?

[00:34:39] On top of what you know,

[00:34:40] you see your paycheck.

[00:34:41] But on top of that,

[00:34:42] do you know that I pay

[00:34:43] five thousand dollars a year

[00:34:44] to the IRS just to have you

[00:34:45] as an employee?

[00:34:46] Like there's employer costs

[00:34:48] that nobody knows about,

[00:34:49] nobody sees.

[00:34:51] And that's just one.

[00:34:52] Right.

[00:34:53] You're an employee.

[00:34:53] You know what I'm talking about.

[00:34:54] There's like it's never ending.

[00:34:56] And in New York State,

[00:34:57] disability.

[00:34:58] Yeah.

[00:34:59] Or it was kind of.

[00:35:00] I mean, oh my God,

[00:35:01] give me a break.

[00:35:02] So it's tough to meet in the middle.

[00:35:04] But I always love to say

[00:35:06] definitely not employer

[00:35:07] versus employee in our industry.

[00:35:09] And but if everybody

[00:35:10] understands both sides,

[00:35:11] it's tough.

[00:35:13] Yeah, I think that's amazing.

[00:35:14] I think, man, what you've done.

[00:35:17] I mean, what I admire

[00:35:19] about you is you're just

[00:35:22] constantly learning.

[00:35:23] You're just constantly learning.

[00:35:24] Like you're a lifelong learner.

[00:35:25] I mean, you didn't know any.

[00:35:27] I'm assuming you didn't

[00:35:28] know anything about shockwave

[00:35:29] or or Facebook ads

[00:35:31] or any of that stuff.

[00:35:32] Like you've learned

[00:35:32] that more recently, right?

[00:35:34] At 50, what you say, 52 years old.

[00:35:36] Yeah.

[00:35:37] And you go through

[00:35:37] and you know what?

[00:35:38] I'm a combat soldier,

[00:35:39] so I'm used to like

[00:35:41] taking the hits

[00:35:42] and grunting it out

[00:35:43] and doing all that kind of stuff.

[00:35:44] So I kind of carried that

[00:35:46] soldier mentality

[00:35:47] with me in business.

[00:35:48] But the biggest thing about it is

[00:35:50] I went through really tough times

[00:35:52] with advertisers.

[00:35:53] I went to people that did

[00:35:54] Google Pay Per Click ads.

[00:35:55] I went through Facebook ads,

[00:35:57] people that were sending me

[00:35:58] garbage leads,

[00:35:59] people sending me people

[00:36:00] from 100 miles away.

[00:36:01] Like there's good

[00:36:02] and there's really bad.

[00:36:04] And you spend money on on bad

[00:36:06] and you learn they cost it costs you.

[00:36:09] So one of the values that I have

[00:36:11] the next 10 years

[00:36:12] in coaching therapists is listen,

[00:36:14] don't go through that painful

[00:36:16] states that I had to you can.

[00:36:17] I found a good digital marketing team

[00:36:20] and I know what's good.

[00:36:21] Like people used to tell me

[00:36:22] is marketing teams just tell me,

[00:36:24] oh, you got to come on

[00:36:24] for at least four months

[00:36:25] because it takes that long

[00:36:26] to really get yourself out there.

[00:36:28] But that's a bunch of crap.

[00:36:29] I put my ads on in three days.

[00:36:31] I'm loaded with leads

[00:36:32] because the people

[00:36:33] that I'm working with right now

[00:36:35] are night and day.

[00:36:36] They get it.

[00:36:36] They're smart way above

[00:36:38] and beyond what I could do by myself.

[00:36:39] So really, I'm not like,

[00:36:41] yeah, look at me.

[00:36:42] I'm like I look up

[00:36:43] and I say, wow, how grateful am I?

[00:36:45] Like like I'm fortunate.

[00:36:47] To be where I am right now,

[00:36:48] but it costs money to get there

[00:36:50] and heartache to get there.

[00:36:51] Yeah, we I'd love to get you back on

[00:36:54] to talk more about

[00:36:55] what your vision is

[00:36:56] to help other owners do do this.

[00:36:58] I mean, because what you're doing

[00:36:59] is awesome.

[00:37:00] And people thank you.

[00:37:01] I mean, I don't know.

[00:37:03] By the way, if you want to know

[00:37:03] any more about this stuff,

[00:37:04] don't call me.

[00:37:05] Call Dr. Joe,

[00:37:06] because this guy's got it figured out.

[00:37:09] And I feel like you could make

[00:37:10] a tremendous impact

[00:37:11] the industry and help a lot of owners

[00:37:13] not only open up their own

[00:37:15] cash pay clinics,

[00:37:16] but also add this as an adjunct

[00:37:18] to their network clinics.

[00:37:19] Yeah, that's even

[00:37:20] becoming a bigger thing

[00:37:22] because back to what we were saying

[00:37:24] in the very beginning is

[00:37:26] when I brought this,

[00:37:27] I really learned along the way

[00:37:28] that this softwave machine

[00:37:29] wasn't going to come in

[00:37:30] and be this big cash,

[00:37:32] amazing service that I can get

[00:37:34] high ticket sales from.

[00:37:35] It turned out to be

[00:37:37] a patient generator.

[00:37:39] And believe it or not,

[00:37:40] like the biggest impact

[00:37:41] are the people that don't buy

[00:37:42] the softwave, the cash

[00:37:43] based high ticket.

[00:37:45] The biggest generator

[00:37:46] are the people that

[00:37:47] aren't necessarily ready to invest.

[00:37:49] Right.

[00:37:49] But they're coming in

[00:37:50] for traditional PT

[00:37:51] because they've already come in here.

[00:37:52] Right.

[00:37:53] If you're yes.

[00:37:54] Down sell them to their low

[00:37:55] to the low ticket offer.

[00:37:56] Right.

[00:37:57] That's it.

[00:37:57] It's all it's huge.

[00:37:59] I mean, it's so big.

[00:38:00] Such a fine.

[00:38:01] It's funny because you think

[00:38:02] you're smart.

[00:38:02] You got this done.

[00:38:03] You know, you're marketing.

[00:38:05] And then you and then something

[00:38:06] really common sense hits you

[00:38:08] and you're like,

[00:38:09] I didn't even think of that.

[00:38:10] And it's fun.

[00:38:11] Yeah.

[00:38:11] And I feel like that's where,

[00:38:14] you know, I have these sales calls

[00:38:15] with these owners who are considering

[00:38:17] getting into coaching.

[00:38:18] And they're like,

[00:38:18] yeah, but how do you help me?

[00:38:20] How does the coaching program help me?

[00:38:22] And it's like,

[00:38:22] it's exactly what you said.

[00:38:23] Like once you create

[00:38:26] the vision inside your head

[00:38:27] of what's possible,

[00:38:28] then something inside

[00:38:30] your just clicks

[00:38:31] and you start getting this

[00:38:32] rush of energy and direction

[00:38:34] and where you're taking your business.

[00:38:36] And that's what you know.

[00:38:37] I mean, like that's

[00:38:38] what coaching does for you.

[00:38:39] It's like every time you

[00:38:40] the call, it's like

[00:38:40] you get this new rush of energy.

[00:38:42] Have you ever worked with a coach?

[00:38:43] I haven't.

[00:38:44] I knew you were going to say that.

[00:38:45] And it sucks.

[00:38:47] It sucks because I would have loved

[00:38:48] to have a mentor and a coach.

[00:38:49] And it's not that I didn't want

[00:38:51] I had a guy in Michigan,

[00:38:53] Mark Glover, who worked

[00:38:54] for Concentra Medical Centers,

[00:38:55] who was the best boss

[00:38:57] I ever had other than my wife.

[00:39:02] Other than my wife,

[00:39:03] she's my best buck.

[00:39:04] But no, this guy was great.

[00:39:05] But I never really had a hands

[00:39:06] on coach or mentor now.

[00:39:08] And I wouldn't recommend

[00:39:09] that to anybody.

[00:39:10] If you can get a coach

[00:39:11] and a mentor,

[00:39:12] it's just the smartest

[00:39:13] thing in the world to do.

[00:39:14] I never did it

[00:39:15] is probably the dumbest thing

[00:39:16] I ever did is not get a coach

[00:39:18] and a mentor.

[00:39:19] Well, what you've done is amazing.

[00:39:21] I had this one friend.

[00:39:22] I still have him.

[00:39:23] And he's doing some amazing things

[00:39:25] in the space.

[00:39:25] And he grew to, I think, like

[00:39:27] 14 clinics without a coach.

[00:39:29] Oh, my God.

[00:39:29] I was like, oh, my God,

[00:39:30] this guy is actually going

[00:39:31] to do this without any help.

[00:39:32] But then once he got to 14,

[00:39:34] he finally had to bite

[00:39:35] the bullet and get some help.

[00:39:36] And I was like, I knew it's like

[00:39:38] everybody needs a coach.

[00:39:39] But what you're doing

[00:39:40] is amazing, man.

[00:39:41] So, man, I could sit here

[00:39:42] and talk for another hour.

[00:39:44] But I do got to run.

[00:39:45] I would love to get you back on

[00:39:47] at a later time and talk

[00:39:48] a little bit more about

[00:39:49] what your vision is for helping

[00:39:51] other owners plug this

[00:39:53] into the practice.

[00:39:54] I thank you so much

[00:39:55] for setting a platform

[00:39:57] for us to discuss some of these

[00:39:58] really important issues.

[00:40:00] It's funny you don't come on

[00:40:01] with an agenda,

[00:40:02] but the more you talk,

[00:40:03] the more it's inspiring.

[00:40:05] You know, to me,

[00:40:06] I'm sure I'm sure

[00:40:07] you're inspired.

[00:40:07] I'm inspired.

[00:40:08] Yeah.

[00:40:08] And people listening.

[00:40:10] We just need to get excited

[00:40:12] and just move

[00:40:13] this profession forward.

[00:40:14] Everybody does their thing.

[00:40:15] You know, everybody

[00:40:16] does their thing.

[00:40:16] Well, you might get a few people

[00:40:17] reaching out to you

[00:40:18] to ask you questions

[00:40:20] about how they can implement

[00:40:21] the shockwave therapy,

[00:40:22] the soft wave solution that you have.

[00:40:24] How will people

[00:40:25] get in touch with you?

[00:40:27] So the best,

[00:40:28] most direct method would be myself

[00:40:31] on my direct line.

[00:40:32] Should I give that out

[00:40:34] here on your podcast?

[00:40:35] That's fine.

[00:40:35] That's 315-525-6860.

[00:40:41] Say it again.

[00:40:42] 315-525-6860.

[00:40:46] And then my email is DrJoe.

[00:40:49] DrJoe.

[00:40:51] Actually, the best way

[00:40:52] to get ahold of me

[00:40:53] is my website,

[00:40:54] which is DrJoeMartinDPT.com.

[00:40:59] I actually have four ebooks

[00:41:01] that I've written

[00:41:02] that everybody can download for free.

[00:41:04] Nice.

[00:41:05] They're really good resources.

[00:41:06] A lot of things.

[00:41:06] We didn't even talk about

[00:41:07] some of the things

[00:41:08] that had fun doing.

[00:41:09] Maybe on the next podcast

[00:41:10] or whatnot,

[00:41:11] because I got to go to,

[00:41:12] I got a patient too.

[00:41:13] And thanks so much for having me.

[00:41:14] So maybe someday

[00:41:15] I'll be like you

[00:41:16] and have a podcast

[00:41:16] and I can have you on

[00:41:17] and return the favor.

[00:41:18] Done.

[00:41:19] Appreciate the time.

[00:41:21] Take care, man.

[00:41:21] Have a great evening.

[00:41:25] Thanks for joining us today

[00:41:26] in the Physical Therapy Owners Club,

[00:41:28] the resource for stability

[00:41:30] and freedom in your PT practice.

[00:41:32] Reach out and join the network today.

[00:41:34] Subscribe to our podcast,

[00:41:35] get links to social media

[00:41:37] and access all of our episodes

[00:41:39] with show notes at pto club dot com.