Recruiting In Today’s Climate With Brian Weidner Of Career Tree Network

[00:00:00] I think that's great. I mean, I like the white glove treatment that you're describing

[00:00:05] when we look at candidates and potential hires. I feel like there's an old school mindset

[00:00:11] of recruiting and interviewing where we want to put the candidate on the spot and drill

[00:00:19] them with tough interview questions.

[00:00:24] Welcome. You've entered the Physical Therapy Owners Club podcast, where your host, Nathan

[00:00:29] Shields and other successful PT owners and leaders share their experience and insights

[00:00:34] on how to build successful PT businesses. They'll share the stories of their paths to success

[00:00:39] and show you how you can also obtain greater freedom and more profits from your business.

[00:00:44] That's what the PT Owners Club is all about, greater freedom and more profits. There's

[00:00:49] plenty of room for you as well, so come on in and join the club.

[00:00:58] Hello. Welcome to the PT Owners Club podcast. I'm your host, Adam Robin. Today, I've got a

[00:01:03] really good friend of mine, Brian. We've known each other for about five years now.

[00:01:08] I know.

[00:01:09] My friend, Brian Widener with CareerTree Network. What's up, Brian? How are you today?

[00:01:12] Hey, Adam. You're doing great. Thanks so much for having me on here.

[00:01:16] Yeah, absolutely, man. It's really good to see you. I thought it would be awesome

[00:01:20] to bring you on because we just started working together more this year and I've

[00:01:25] been learning a little bit more about what you're doing on the recruiting side. I know

[00:01:29] you've got some new things happening in your company and recruiting is always kind of like

[00:01:33] a special thing for me because I really enjoy doing it.

[00:01:36] One of the things that fascinates me or that's really interested in hearing your perspective

[00:01:40] about is you've built a career providing outsourced solutions for a lot of these practice

[00:01:46] owners, like building recruiting solutions, outsource solutions for practice owners.

[00:01:50] Obviously, you've had some success with that, but more recently, you and I have

[00:01:53] been talking and you've been telling me that you're actually finding even greater results

[00:01:58] whenever you can help owners create an internal solution, an internal recruiting

[00:02:02] solution to help them build their team and scale their practices that way.

[00:02:06] And yeah, I'd love to just dive into that topic and hear a little bit more about

[00:02:10] your perspective there and see what we can learn.

[00:02:12] Great. You know, we think about recruiting.

[00:02:15] It's really all about relationships and it's about the relationship

[00:02:21] that the candidate has ultimately with the employer, the employer brand,

[00:02:28] the owner, the physical therapists at that location.

[00:02:32] And it's about building that relationship with the potential candidate

[00:02:37] that they know, they like, they trust the organization and the employer brand.

[00:02:43] And we started our company in 2007.

[00:02:46] My wife's a PT. We just recruit PTs nationwide,

[00:02:50] worked with a lot of practices, all shapes and sizes.

[00:02:53] And historically we were called in to just deliver candidates,

[00:02:58] to send me people to interview, send me those relationships that are already formed,

[00:03:03] introduce me to PTs to join my team.

[00:03:07] And that's been really like the legacy of our company.

[00:03:10] And what we found is along the way we've learned that not all PTs

[00:03:16] want to work with recruiters.

[00:03:18] We do things a little differently.

[00:03:20] We try not to play the same recruiting games in terms of like

[00:03:25] some of the secrecy and different tricks and things that a recruiter might do.

[00:03:30] But ultimately PTs prefer to work and build a relationship directly

[00:03:35] with someone at the clinic, whether it's the clinic owner or the rehab manager,

[00:03:41] the office manager, someone they can kind of get the fast track

[00:03:44] and go right to the top.

[00:03:46] We've been thinking about really how to help our clients

[00:03:50] build better relationships with candidates.

[00:03:53] And ultimately as well, it's really a long term play too,

[00:03:58] where it's kind of like that quote, like the best time to plant a tree is yesterday.

[00:04:04] The second best time is today.

[00:04:06] Or if you're thinking about like going out here in pretty decent shape.

[00:04:09] But myself, if I have a vacation planned in the future,

[00:04:13] I might try and like work out, do a little extra running or something

[00:04:18] get into my beach body.

[00:04:19] It's like you need a little time to build those relationships.

[00:04:23] And when a clinic has the hiring need at a certain point in time,

[00:04:29] it's really difficult to develop relationships

[00:04:32] and deliver candidates within that short window.

[00:04:35] Like, oh my gosh, my PT gave notice.

[00:04:37] I need candidates now.

[00:04:39] Right now I need candidates.

[00:04:41] And it's like, OK, well, that's really challenging.

[00:04:45] Whereas if you had been planting that tree,

[00:04:48] or if you had planted those seeds earlier,

[00:04:50] if you had started your beach body workout three months earlier,

[00:04:54] then you'd have a better foundation of recruitment for your current needs.

[00:04:59] Really the idea behind what we're doing with some of our new programs

[00:05:05] is around like how can we support and enhance the clinic owner

[00:05:09] so that they're having that recruitment mindset

[00:05:11] and they're able to build that recruitment function

[00:05:14] so that they can really have on demand talent

[00:05:17] and those relationships for their current and future needs,

[00:05:21] especially for growth needs as well.

[00:05:23] That's amazing.

[00:05:24] It's so cool because we had a coaching call

[00:05:27] me and a couple of our clients,

[00:05:29] we'll sort of handful of our clients yesterday,

[00:05:32] some of our younger, like our smaller practices.

[00:05:34] And I asked the question, I said,

[00:05:36] what's the most important resource that you have in your business?

[00:05:40] And some people said, my team or, you know, my patients, right.

[00:05:44] And in my opinion, the most important resource

[00:05:47] in your business is the owner's attention.

[00:05:51] It's like what you focus on is what grows or what improves

[00:05:55] or what that's what you're going to make progress in.

[00:05:57] It's amazing to hear you say how bringing the focus

[00:06:01] it's like the owner is always the problem.

[00:06:02] The owner is always the solution.

[00:06:04] It's like you're always the problem.

[00:06:06] You're always the solution.

[00:06:06] And it's amazing to hear you say that bringing the attention back.

[00:06:10] It all comes back to the owner by getting them to focus on the recruiting

[00:06:14] is what is going to ultimately help them get the results.

[00:06:18] Yeah. Well, and ultimately, like we're in the business of people

[00:06:23] and, you know, as a physical therapy clinic business,

[00:06:27] the more physical therapists you have,

[00:06:30] the more people that you're going to serve in your community.

[00:06:33] We can't like outsource the care to AI or something.

[00:06:37] Like we need clinicians to provide the service.

[00:06:41] And so really like understanding your local talent pool

[00:06:45] and building relationships with your local talent pool

[00:06:48] is really central to your business.

[00:06:51] I mean, and some PTs are willing to relocate.

[00:06:56] Some new grads are always coming out on the market.

[00:07:00] But ultimately, what is the relationship that you have

[00:07:04] with the local PTs in your community?

[00:07:06] Like what are you doing to support the local PT community?

[00:07:11] That's really something that's hard to do as a recruiter who's

[00:07:15] across the country.

[00:07:16] You know, it's like you can provide a ton of value.

[00:07:20] But like there's some depth of relationship in that local pool

[00:07:24] that it's going to be ultimately the owner is going to be the best person

[00:07:27] to do that.

[00:07:29] My question for you is like, you work with a lot of owners

[00:07:31] and I couldn't agree with you more that coming back to the attention piece,

[00:07:35] like getting the owner focused, like you only have so many priorities.

[00:07:39] If you're a really great productive person,

[00:07:42] you can maybe have three in your business, right?

[00:07:45] But one of those has to be recruiting.

[00:07:47] If you're the owner of the business, one of those has to be recruiting

[00:07:49] and it really is something that never goes away.

[00:07:51] But it gets replaced with stuff, right?

[00:07:53] What happens is we get busy and the owners lose like that.

[00:07:57] Recruiting thing never becomes like it's sometimes it's not always the most urgent

[00:08:01] thing and it gets replaced with things that are more urgent.

[00:08:03] So like, what are some of the things that you're seeing that owners

[00:08:06] are having a hard time with?

[00:08:06] Like, why are they not focused on the recruiting piece?

[00:08:09] Is it because they are busy?

[00:08:11] Is it because they don't have the skill set?

[00:08:12] Like, where's the disconnect?

[00:08:14] Yeah, good question.

[00:08:15] Well, I think you're right about areas of focus.

[00:08:18] And I think recruiting should be an area of focus,

[00:08:21] but I would maybe challenge us to expand that a little bit to

[00:08:25] that when you're focusing on recruiting makes it sound like it's only like new

[00:08:30] people like externally focused.

[00:08:32] And I think a lot of times maybe we don't call it recruiting,

[00:08:35] but we're building ongoing employee relationships because your current staff,

[00:08:42] we want to focus on retaining your current staff, not just so maybe it's

[00:08:47] recruiting slash relationship development with employees or something along those

[00:08:53] lines to make sure that we look at it.

[00:08:56] And I see recruiting ultimately looked like I say it's building relationships.

[00:09:01] And I think we always want to build relationships and strengthen relationships

[00:09:05] with prospective candidates and people that are already on our team,

[00:09:10] just for longevity and retention.

[00:09:12] But I think from a clinic owner perspective, the struggle on recruiting

[00:09:17] is that when they're fully staffed, it's not on their mind.

[00:09:22] If you're clinic, if you feel like your clinic is fully staffed,

[00:09:26] yeah, you might have growth hires in the future,

[00:09:29] but there's not like an interest to always be recruiting.

[00:09:33] There's this illusion that I'm fully staffed, my team isn't going anywhere

[00:09:38] and I don't have any need to recruit because I'm fully staffed.

[00:09:42] And so why would I do anything recruiting wise if I don't have any need?

[00:09:46] And that part is a struggle.

[00:09:49] I mean, on the flip side, though, if you have growth hires that you want to make,

[00:09:54] people are leaving jobs, PTs are leaving jobs all the time right now for a variety

[00:09:59] of reasons and also the lead time when the PT gives notice,

[00:10:04] they're going to give you two weeks notice or four weeks notice.

[00:10:09] And it might take three months or longer for you to find the ideal candidate.

[00:10:15] If you're not always recruiting and always having some recruitment presence

[00:10:19] when the person does give notice or when you do decide to grow or when

[00:10:23] an opportunity presents itself for you to purchase something, another clinic down the road

[00:10:28] or you're not going to be ready to take on that.

[00:10:32] I feel like on some level, every clinic should always be recruiting

[00:10:36] and always having feelers out there, even if it's just like a minimal level.

[00:10:42] Yeah, I like what you said about that because the demand

[00:10:46] or how many therapists you need to hire is constantly changing.

[00:10:49] Maybe not always constantly, but like you said, like opportunities come

[00:10:53] opportunity equals I need to hire or somebody quits and that means I need to hire.

[00:10:58] Or if I'm fully staffed, I don't necessarily need to hire right now.

[00:11:01] There's like this green is like I'm fully staffed.

[00:11:04] I don't really need to hire.

[00:11:05] But there is some level of recruiting that should be taking place on a week by week basis.

[00:11:10] But maybe that's only like two hours a week.

[00:11:12] Fully staffed is green.

[00:11:14] Therefore, you have two hours a week of recruiting.

[00:11:16] Maybe you have an opportunity coming up and you know that you're going to need

[00:11:20] a therapist in, let's say six months.

[00:11:21] Well, maybe that's like the yellow, but maybe you need to kick that up

[00:11:24] from two hours to week to five hours a week.

[00:11:27] Right. So you have your green at two hours a week, your yellows at five hours a week.

[00:11:31] And now let's say somebody just quit.

[00:11:33] Now you're in red.

[00:11:34] Now you need to be recruiting like 20 hours a week to make sure.

[00:11:38] So like, I think it's important for owners to have that temperature gauge of like,

[00:11:44] where are you and kind of audit that on a month by month basis?

[00:11:48] Like, where are you with that temperature and how many hours a week?

[00:11:52] I say hours per week, but you can say hours per month or whatever it is.

[00:11:55] Do you need to be spending outside of patient care, outside of everything else

[00:12:00] fully focused on recruiting and just kind of audit that process every month?

[00:12:03] And that's kind of the thing that kind of keeps you on top of those things

[00:12:06] instead of like underneath it.

[00:12:08] Right. Yeah.

[00:12:09] I think in terms of question that someone might have is, OK, I'm spending two

[00:12:14] hours a week on recruiting.

[00:12:15] What am I doing during that time?

[00:12:18] And the answer could be a variety of things.

[00:12:21] I don't know what you would suggest, but from my end, I think about

[00:12:25] building relationships with the target audience in terms of maybe

[00:12:30] you sponsor student 5K race and you get your company logo on the back

[00:12:36] of a T-shirt for your local PT school, or you get a list of people

[00:12:42] who attended the state conference and you send them a message praising

[00:12:47] them for their commitment to professional development and sharing how

[00:12:52] that's a priority for your practice as well.

[00:12:54] And you're fully staffed right now, but you're always looking

[00:12:57] at building relationships with people for growth position.

[00:13:01] If you're open to chatting with me further, please let me know.

[00:13:04] So I think the idea is around being proactive, being out there

[00:13:10] and maybe you're fully staffed, but it's this idea of like, do you still

[00:13:15] value this relationship development?

[00:13:18] And how do you go about planting those seeds for the future?

[00:13:22] And it doesn't have to be a lot of things.

[00:13:24] But when you have that foundation of activity out there, like you're

[00:13:27] suggesting it's going to really benefit you.

[00:13:31] And then also if you have that list or that database that you might be

[00:13:34] using to keep track of those potentials, then you can follow up with those guys.

[00:13:40] You know, hey, I emailed you six months ago after you attended that

[00:13:43] conference at that time, I didn't have any needs on my team, but we're growing

[00:13:48] and we just have a position opening up on to reach back out to you

[00:13:52] and see if now is a good time for you to consider joining us.

[00:13:55] So you can follow up on that past communication as well, which is

[00:13:59] really all about that relationship building again.

[00:14:02] Yeah. Obviously I've been doing a lot of coaching lately.

[00:14:05] It's been super fun because I've been like really, really

[00:14:10] spending a lot of deep thinking about our profession and the mindset

[00:14:14] of the owner and trying to help get clear on like the struggles

[00:14:16] that they're having.

[00:14:17] And I've been using this framework to describe recruiting lately

[00:14:21] and I kind of want to get your opinion on it.

[00:14:22] So I see a lot of owners, well, not a lot of owners, most owners, all owners.

[00:14:28] They're kind of like they're the superstars of their little circle

[00:14:32] because they're quick starters.

[00:14:34] They have a lot of ideas.

[00:14:36] They're typically very talented, smart people.

[00:14:39] They're charismatic in a lot of ways.

[00:14:41] And when they open their practice, they had to learn this skill of like,

[00:14:45] how do I get people to like me?

[00:14:47] How do I get patients to like me?

[00:14:49] They bring them in and they say, hey, how you doing, Brian?

[00:14:52] It's nice to see you.

[00:14:53] Well, thank you so much for trusting us with your care.

[00:14:55] I'm going to take care of you and I'm going to make sure you're happy.

[00:14:58] I'm going to make sure that I follow up with you and send you an email

[00:15:02] and ask for your feedback and like I'm going to nurture that relationship

[00:15:06] with you because I know that if you're happy, then you're going to

[00:15:08] send me referrals and that my practice is probably going to grow.

[00:15:11] There's a skill to that.

[00:15:12] There's a savviness to that that owners naturally have.

[00:15:14] And so what I've been saying is like, take all of that energy

[00:15:17] and all that mindset and that focus, remove it from the patients

[00:15:21] and just put it towards recruits like candidates.

[00:15:24] It's the same skill set.

[00:15:25] It's the exact same skill set, right?

[00:15:28] What you do is like teach your team how to do that.

[00:15:31] Like you've mastered that that internal marketing

[00:15:34] and sales piece of what you do in your business.

[00:15:37] You teach your team how to do that.

[00:15:39] Now you can back away and focus on the bigger vision for your company,

[00:15:43] which is the people who you're going to bring on into your team.

[00:15:47] How do you nurture them?

[00:15:47] How do you get them to like you?

[00:15:48] How do you serve them?

[00:15:50] How do you follow up with them and send them emails?

[00:15:52] How do you get referrals from that list?

[00:15:53] It's the same exact skill set, just a little bit different language.

[00:15:57] So I always say like take that marketing and sales program

[00:16:00] that you have built, cross it out and just put the word recruiting on the top.

[00:16:04] And now you have a pretty good recruiting program too.

[00:16:06] I think that's great.

[00:16:08] I mean, I like the white glove treatment that you're describing

[00:16:12] when we look at candidates and potential hires.

[00:16:15] I feel like there's an old school mindset of recruiting and interviewing

[00:16:21] where we want to kind of put the candidate on the spot

[00:16:26] and drill them with tough interview questions.

[00:16:29] You know, why should I hire you?

[00:16:31] Tell me about your most challenging clinical

[00:16:35] and what was a pressure situation that you were in?

[00:16:38] And we want to try and like put people in the hot seat, so to speak.

[00:16:43] And that way, when we interview them, we're going to kind of separate

[00:16:47] the best candidates and those that are, you know, able to prove themselves

[00:16:51] that they're worthy of joining our team.

[00:16:55] That's an OK mindset if you have a lot of people applying maybe

[00:17:00] and you have a lot of candidates.

[00:17:01] And that's not the culture.

[00:17:03] That's not the climate.

[00:17:05] People have options.

[00:17:08] Yeah, so I mean that customer service mindset, what you're describing,

[00:17:12] I think is really key.

[00:17:14] And ultimately it's kind of humbling because then that rolls into like

[00:17:18] flexibility as well among the employer.

[00:17:22] Do I really need someone with three years of experience

[00:17:26] or if we have some with one year of experience, is that sufficient

[00:17:30] or like that level of flexibility and chatting with candidates?

[00:17:35] And it's becoming more and more challenging, I think as well,

[00:17:39] because PTs are not necessarily looking for the same things that they did

[00:17:44] five or ten years ago.

[00:17:46] There's a shift within what I'm hearing from candidates among

[00:17:50] the talent pool that we're talking with.

[00:17:52] And it's maybe they're no longer interested in 40 hours a week.

[00:17:56] Maybe they want 32 hours a week.

[00:17:58] Is that a possibility?

[00:18:00] But yeah, just to kind of bring it back to your point.

[00:18:03] Yeah, like this white love treatment.

[00:18:05] I mean, we all want to be treated well and we all want our skills to be valued.

[00:18:11] We don't really want to go through like a tough interview process,

[00:18:14] even if you're like a rock star, you don't want to be like sweating

[00:18:18] when you're talking to a potential employer.

[00:18:21] And I feel like your relationship approach is really spot on.

[00:18:25] I think that's really key.

[00:18:27] And I mean, I've found tremendous amounts of success with that approach.

[00:18:34] Over the many years of my physical therapy clinic ownership,

[00:18:37] one of my biggest fears was that one of my PTs was suddenly up and quit.

[00:18:41] I hated being in that position, that position of fear and weakness.

[00:18:44] That's why back in the day, my business partner, Will Humphries,

[00:18:47] and I decided that we were going to change the narrative

[00:18:50] and always be hiring always on the lookout.

[00:18:53] Forget it.

[00:18:53] We weren't waiting for the next provider to quit

[00:18:55] and then start up the hamster wheel to suddenly replace them as soon as possible.

[00:19:00] We were going to be on the lookout always for the next rock star PT.

[00:19:04] Since that time, I've personally witnessed Will Humphries

[00:19:07] build a bench of willing rock star PT candidates for our clinics,

[00:19:10] such that at any time if our providers wanted to leave,

[00:19:13] we had not only a suitable replacement for them,

[00:19:15] but someone that we were super excited about.

[00:19:17] He did this not only during some of the most difficult times

[00:19:20] to find physical therapists, but also in some of the most difficult

[00:19:23] parts of the country to recruit and hire PTs.

[00:19:25] Now, Will Humphries has developed a program for UPT owners

[00:19:29] called Rockstar Recruiter to show you exactly how to find the next

[00:19:32] rock star physical therapist for your clinics.

[00:19:35] Physical therapists that don't just fog a mirror and treat patients,

[00:19:38] but physical therapists that are excited to join your practice

[00:19:40] and are looking for opportunities to grow and lead in your company.

[00:19:44] It's exciting to see that what Will had done so masterfully in the past

[00:19:48] is now providing to owners like you across the country

[00:19:51] to help you be in a position of power versus fear of the next resignation.

[00:19:56] Bringing on quality physical therapists to view Will's Rockstar Recruiter program

[00:19:59] will open up opportunities for you in the clinic that you never would have imagined.

[00:20:03] And I've seen it myself.

[00:20:04] Reach out to him now at Will at unlock HBA.com.

[00:20:10] Will at unlock HBA's and boy A.com or call him.

[00:20:15] Text him directly 480-248-5119.

[00:20:26] Instead of looking for limitations with candidates,

[00:20:29] instead of looking for reasons to not hire them,

[00:20:32] because like you said they want X or they don't have this qualification

[00:20:35] or they're whatever, look for possibilities.

[00:20:39] So like don't look for limitations, look for what's possible.

[00:20:41] Like look for what you can create.

[00:20:43] Don't hire them for where they are, hire them for where you want to go.

[00:20:46] Because you can train anything.

[00:20:48] You could train on anything.

[00:20:50] You could train anybody to do anything, right?

[00:20:52] But one of my favorite quotes with recruiting is

[00:20:54] hire for personality and train for skill.

[00:20:56] Find the person who has the personality.

[00:20:58] Maybe they don't have all the credentials

[00:20:59] and maybe they don't have the experience

[00:21:01] or maybe they do come with some things that are going to require you

[00:21:06] to be a little bit flexible, but they have the personality for growth.

[00:21:10] They align with your culture

[00:21:11] and they're willing to do hard things with you.

[00:21:13] So it's like you can create anything with that person.

[00:21:15] I think it's really important to start look for possibility,

[00:21:18] understand what your vision is for the company,

[00:21:20] look for possibility and then enroll that person

[00:21:23] in the idea of helping you go in that direction.

[00:21:25] I think that's key. I think that's super key.

[00:21:28] I do have another question for you.

[00:21:30] It's my turn to ask the questions.

[00:21:32] You mentioned this right before we pressed record

[00:21:35] and I was like, that's a really good point, right?

[00:21:37] Because I'm at this stage in my business.

[00:21:39] I've got three locations.

[00:21:41] I'm doing a lot of recruiting right now.

[00:21:43] And it's really all I do for the most part, but it's a lot.

[00:21:47] Recruiting is a lot, especially when you have 30 employees

[00:21:49] and you're growing.

[00:21:50] And we hit that point where we understand that the owner

[00:21:54] is a big piece to that recruiting success.

[00:21:57] However, I can't do this forever.

[00:21:59] I need to find ways to attract candidates to my company

[00:22:02] without being attracted to Adam Robin.

[00:22:05] It's kind of like that time where you were the physical therapist

[00:22:07] and all the doctors would write Brian Weidner on the script

[00:22:10] and it's like, no, you need to see my other new PT, right?

[00:22:13] Like that transition.

[00:22:14] How do you do that?

[00:22:15] How do you get the focus off of Adam

[00:22:18] and more on like, choose my company because of who we are

[00:22:22] as a company? Like how do you do that?

[00:22:23] Can you talk us through that?

[00:22:25] Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:22:27] As the company is small and if you have one clinic location,

[00:22:31] you know, ultimately when the PT is joining your team,

[00:22:35] they're going to be working side by side with you

[00:22:38] as the clinic owner.

[00:22:40] And your relationship that you develop with that candidate

[00:22:44] is really key and the candidate may be joining

[00:22:46] because you're dynamic and you seem like a good mentor

[00:22:50] and they're joining to work specifically for you as an individual.

[00:22:55] And I think that works for a period of time.

[00:22:58] However, the real goal is probably,

[00:23:01] since you are the owner of the clinic,

[00:23:03] the real goal is for you to not be so side by side

[00:23:07] in the clinic and for you to pursue growth

[00:23:10] and let your business flourish.

[00:23:13] And in order for that to happen,

[00:23:15] like you're saying over time,

[00:23:17] the candidates are going to be joining a company less

[00:23:20] because of the ability to work with you

[00:23:22] because you're not physically there.

[00:23:24] You know, right now you have how many employees working

[00:23:27] and you're with me, you're not with them.

[00:23:30] That's the same in like a hospital system.

[00:23:33] I mean, do new physical therapists join a hospital

[00:23:36] because the CEO is dynamic?

[00:23:38] Like no, like they don't even know who the CEO is.

[00:23:41] They never met him, I mean her.

[00:23:42] And so yeah, as your company grows,

[00:23:45] the individual personalities and the individual people

[00:23:49] become less and less important.

[00:23:51] And I think regardless of your size,

[00:23:53] I feel like that's an important transition to take place

[00:23:56] because even if you are a small practice with one location,

[00:24:02] you don't really want someone joining

[00:24:05] to specifically work with you.

[00:24:07] You want someone who's going to be joining your company

[00:24:10] because what happens if you decide to open up a second location

[00:24:14] and then you're no longer there?

[00:24:16] Is that PT going to leave because you're at the second location?

[00:24:20] Or what if you get hit by a bus

[00:24:22] or you decide that you want to go part-time or whatever?

[00:24:25] Like you want your staff to be feeling like they're connected

[00:24:29] to the company, to the employer brand

[00:24:32] rather than to you as an individual.

[00:24:35] And you want the employer brand to be strong

[00:24:39] because you don't want employees to feel

[00:24:42] that their livelihood is at the whim of the employer.

[00:24:46] If Adam decides all of a sudden that we have to wear pink shirts

[00:24:51] for our dress code,

[00:24:53] you want to be part of this organized system

[00:24:57] where the owner is the one driving the bus

[00:25:00] but there's other engines and there's steering wheels

[00:25:03] and there's other things that are in place to help the owner

[00:25:07] so that it's not just like the owner's whim what happens.

[00:25:10] And really we're talking about the employer brand

[00:25:13] and that's as I think of...

[00:25:15] And the employer brand is really important

[00:25:17] because as new grads or PTs in general,

[00:25:21] as they start to think about,

[00:25:23] okay, I'm going to be looking for a new job.

[00:25:25] Where might I want to work?

[00:25:27] They're going to be in their head thinking about,

[00:25:30] okay, who are the employers that I'm familiar with?

[00:25:33] Who are the employers that I know, that I like, that I trust?

[00:25:37] And you want your practice to be on that mind,

[00:25:40] on that mental list.

[00:25:42] And that's really the employer brand is...

[00:25:44] And they're not thinking about who do I want to go work with.

[00:25:46] It's which organizations should I consider joining?

[00:25:50] And I think the idea around the employer brand

[00:25:53] is around what's important to you as a company.

[00:25:56] So like what values do you have

[00:25:58] and making sure that your values are listed

[00:26:01] within the job advertisements or on your website.

[00:26:04] Having multiple people involved in the interview process as well.

[00:26:08] So if you're the decision maker,

[00:26:10] that's fine obviously for you to be involved,

[00:26:12] but you need to have multiple people

[00:26:15] so that new potential hire doesn't think,

[00:26:18] hey, it's just this one guy who's calling all the shots

[00:26:21] and doing everything.

[00:26:22] So you want to try and think of yourself as like,

[00:26:25] yes, you're the owner,

[00:26:26] but really you're the employer brand.

[00:26:29] You're like the facilitator of the employer brand,

[00:26:32] but there's this larger system in place.

[00:26:35] It's not just you.

[00:26:37] And I think that'll be a big help

[00:26:39] because also for stability reasons,

[00:26:42] PTs don't really want to join like a really small organization

[00:26:47] that's not going to be stable.

[00:26:49] They really want, like above all,

[00:26:51] we want stability from our employer.

[00:26:53] We want to know like, okay, it's going to be consistent.

[00:26:56] It's going to be from Starbucks if I order flat white

[00:27:00] or the cappuccino,

[00:27:01] it's going to taste basically the same every time that I get it.

[00:27:04] That's kind of the mentality with employees,

[00:27:07] like they want that stability.

[00:27:09] And that all comes from the employer brand.

[00:27:12] I'm glad to hear you talk about that

[00:27:13] because I have stepped out of some of the recruiting process

[00:27:17] in a lot of ways because I don't do all the interviews anymore,

[00:27:20] or really many of them at all.

[00:27:22] I don't do the offers.

[00:27:23] The thing that I'm having a harder time getting out of

[00:27:25] and probably I'm going to leverage you

[00:27:28] and your new program with is how to generate more leads,

[00:27:32] how to generate more interviews.

[00:27:34] Right? So like I'm still have my hands in that process.

[00:27:36] But you were telling me that you've got a new program now,

[00:27:41] or newer, where you're actually helping owners

[00:27:43] create that inside their practices.

[00:27:45] Is that right? Some type of system

[00:27:47] where they can actually generate more candidate leads internally.

[00:27:52] Can you tell us a little bit about like what that looks like

[00:27:54] and how that's set up?

[00:27:55] Yeah, sure.

[00:27:56] Yeah, the program is called Engage Hire.

[00:27:58] And the idea is that we can help our clients

[00:28:03] build an internal recruitment function.

[00:28:05] We can provide them with the tools, the templates,

[00:28:10] the data and the support so that they can perform

[00:28:14] recruiter slash headhunter type activities,

[00:28:17] but they can do that internally.

[00:28:19] And the backbone of it is our Geo targeted report

[00:28:24] that we create, which is basically a list of possible candidates

[00:28:29] who live near the work location.

[00:28:31] And we're using licensure data and a bunch of other data sources

[00:28:36] to come up with, OK, here's a list of the PTs

[00:28:41] who live near the work location.

[00:28:43] And then my team researches those folks via LinkedIn

[00:28:47] to get LinkedIn accounts, cell numbers, email addresses

[00:28:52] so that we're coming up with contact channels.

[00:28:55] And then during the Engage Hire program,

[00:28:58] we're providing the templates in terms of what to say

[00:29:02] when you're calling out to candidates, what to say with an emails and texts.

[00:29:07] And we're developing with the owner and with the team

[00:29:10] a system of recruitment so that they can recruit internally.

[00:29:15] And it's really a collaborative model.

[00:29:17] So you mentioned like you not being involved.

[00:29:20] I think the owner should or at least rehab manager, clinic manager,

[00:29:24] someone at the top layers should be involved.

[00:29:28] But that first level of outreach doesn't have to be the clinic owner.

[00:29:32] It can be like a front desk person or an office manager

[00:29:37] because there's a lot of time involved, as you know, with recruiting,

[00:29:41] sending out messages.

[00:29:42] And so we're basically leveraging help from that internal person

[00:29:47] on the client team to do that first round of outreach.

[00:29:51] And then when someone's interested, then the clinic owner

[00:29:55] or clinic manager would come and take over that relationship

[00:29:58] and move the candidate through the process.

[00:30:01] But the idea is that again, like we talked about at the beginning

[00:30:04] of our conversation, who's going to build the relationship

[00:30:07] with those possible candidates?

[00:30:08] Is it me and my team from Wisconsin

[00:30:11] or is it your team who lives down the street from the ideal candidate

[00:30:15] and ultimately I do think it's better as humbling as it is for me to say,

[00:30:20] like I do think it's better for the internal clinic owner or clinic manager

[00:30:25] or someone at the clinic site to build those relationships

[00:30:28] because ultimately it's going to be more effective

[00:30:31] and then you'll have that long term potential for the future as well.

[00:30:35] That's awesome.

[00:30:36] Yeah, because there's not a whole lot of people in our space doing that.

[00:30:39] Yeah, especially for like busy practice owners

[00:30:42] who are just slammed with patient care

[00:30:44] and don't really have the time to implement or build something from scratch.

[00:30:48] That's an awesome resource, super awesome resource.

[00:30:52] And there are other resources out there.

[00:30:55] I mean, there's a lot of recruitment tools

[00:30:58] and a lot of consultants and people that I'll talk about recruiting.

[00:31:03] But I think where this program is different is that we're really focused

[00:31:07] in on that geo targeted report of the potential candidates

[00:31:12] who are living near the work location because our process has always been data driven.

[00:31:17] It's just in the past, my team would utilize that report and that data

[00:31:21] and make the outbound activity the outreaches.

[00:31:25] And so there's a lot of like consulting and OK, here's what you say

[00:31:29] when a candidate from indeed applies for your job.

[00:31:33] And it's like we're from our perspective.

[00:31:35] It's like we do need to have indeed and online job ads running.

[00:31:40] But at the same time, we need to do more.

[00:31:42] We can't just wait for candidates to come in.

[00:31:44] And if we're going to do more, yeah, what are we going to do?

[00:31:48] And that's the idea of proactive recruiting.

[00:31:51] It's around taking initiative to make that outbound activity

[00:31:56] and doing it in a way that makes sense and that collaborative nature as well

[00:32:00] so that the clinic owner is only spending time with the candidates that are really viable.

[00:32:05] Yes, we have our profession.

[00:32:08] We have like these are like bleeding heart compassionate people

[00:32:11] and we don't want to be creepy, you know, like people who just kind of like cold

[00:32:14] call you or cold DM you or cold email you.

[00:32:16] You know, there's a little bit of discomfort there that you have to kind of

[00:32:18] there's like a little bit of mindset ship that you have to get over in order

[00:32:21] to like step into that place of vulnerability of like, hey, Brian,

[00:32:25] like saw you repeating the area.

[00:32:26] I want to chat and I would say that many of the clients I work with struggle

[00:32:31] with that and my answer to them is like, just tell that voice to shut up.

[00:32:35] Just tell that voice to shut up.

[00:32:36] Do it anyway and just be violent.

[00:32:38] Like just go after it if they're not interested, they won't respond.

[00:32:41] And I think there is like a numbers game like you've got to get more hooks in the water.

[00:32:45] Yeah, right. Yeah, I've heard owners say that like they don't want to poach

[00:32:50] talents, you know, from other people.

[00:32:52] And really what we're doing with recruiting is we're planting seeds

[00:32:57] and we're building relationships.

[00:32:59] And if someone says, hey, I'm retired, I'm happy in my current role.

[00:33:04] I would never leave the skilled nursing setting and you're an outpatient clinic.

[00:33:08] People are going to tell you different things.

[00:33:10] You're not really poaching people.

[00:33:12] You're just trying to figure out, hey, like, are you really happy at your current

[00:33:16] position? If you were going to leave your current role, like, why would you do so?

[00:33:21] Like, how's everything going?

[00:33:22] Like, is there any potential for us to work together down the road?

[00:33:27] And maybe there is, maybe there's not, but we're trying to really figure

[00:33:31] that out through the recruiting process.

[00:33:33] So it's not like, at least the way that my team looks at recruiting,

[00:33:36] it's not like this like sleazy car salesman type thing where you're,

[00:33:40] what would it take for you to drive off the line with this car?

[00:33:44] You know, $10,000 sign on bonus sign now, call it up, why now?

[00:33:48] It's the time of those deals. Right. Yeah.

[00:33:50] I know I'm totally on board with that.

[00:33:51] Yeah. I mean, it's a matter of like figuring out, is there a path forward

[00:33:56] and looking at it from a place of curiosity?

[00:33:59] Yes.

[00:34:00] Yeah. To me, we had, so we're doing our total talent masterclass,

[00:34:04] which I know Adam, you've been a part of and thank you for doing that.

[00:34:07] And we have Harry Ashley on.

[00:34:09] She's she might be someone good for you to talk with actually.

[00:34:11] She's a like a mental health coach and business coach for like

[00:34:18] kind of positive thinking and that kind of stuff.

[00:34:20] And she talks a lot about like curiosity coming into relationships

[00:34:24] with that spirit of curiosity.

[00:34:26] And that I think is really key for recruiting and for an owner

[00:34:30] that's scared about or apprehensive around making that outbound activity.

[00:34:35] You know, it's really about just being curious, like, is there a possibility here?

[00:34:39] Like, are you at a point where you might consider a new position?

[00:34:44] Maybe they are.

[00:34:45] Yeah. Because otherwise what options do we have?

[00:34:47] We're just going to wait.

[00:34:48] We're going to post the job and we're going to wait for someone to apply

[00:34:53] or we're going to work on our employer brand.

[00:34:55] We're going to go to career fairs sponsor the 5K run at the PT school.

[00:35:00] And we're going to do some stuff marketing wise that might help us.

[00:35:05] But it's like, we need to go out and have conversations

[00:35:08] with the potential candidates.

[00:35:10] And we know who they are.

[00:35:12] And that's the beauty of recruiting.

[00:35:14] PTs is that we have the licensure data and my team, we have it for all 50 states.

[00:35:20] We know all the PTs across the U.S.

[00:35:23] We know who they are and not saying that in like a creepy way.

[00:35:27] We know where they live.

[00:35:31] We know where they work.

[00:35:34] Through this data, though, like we know who the PTs are.

[00:35:37] We don't have to hope that those PTs go on to the Internet,

[00:35:42] search for PT positions near me and find our job ad.

[00:35:46] We can go out and contact them and say, hey, I noticed

[00:35:49] I'm searching for PTs in the area.

[00:35:51] I noticed your name on my list here.

[00:35:54] I just wanted to reach out, see if it might make sense.

[00:35:56] Are you open to considering a new role?

[00:35:59] Yeah, I love the tone of curiosity and the way I often describe it is

[00:36:05] approach it as if you have no place to get.

[00:36:07] Right. So like if you approach the conversation with

[00:36:09] I need to try to get this higher.

[00:36:12] Now you have a place to get.

[00:36:13] You just turned into a creep.

[00:36:15] Right. But if you approach it with no place to get out of pure curiosity,

[00:36:18] like I don't have any place to get.

[00:36:19] Like I'm genuinely just like trying to build my network.

[00:36:22] And if we decide that there is a place to get,

[00:36:25] then we'll have that conversation.

[00:36:26] But first let's just see if we'd like each other.

[00:36:29] Let's just see if we align on anything. Right.

[00:36:31] I just said one other point.

[00:36:32] Like what if you approached as well from like a place of generosity

[00:36:37] where you wanted to figure out what you could give to your community

[00:36:41] in terms of hosting a CEU event at your clinic or sponsoring.

[00:36:47] Send a referral.

[00:36:48] Yeah. Sending referrals.

[00:36:49] Like I want to know I'm a PT here.

[00:36:52] Like what type of patients do you see?

[00:36:53] Can we help each other out with referrals?

[00:36:56] Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's really a matter of like what value

[00:36:59] can you provide as well rather than like, do you want to join my team?

[00:37:04] When can I hire you?

[00:37:05] You know, you want to try and think about like what value

[00:37:08] that you can provide to other people, especially in the recruiting process.

[00:37:11] Yeah. I had a person on my network tell me the other day.

[00:37:13] It's like the law of reciprocity. Right.

[00:37:14] It's like it's a law.

[00:37:16] Right. Like if you continue to give, it's impossible for you not to get at some point.

[00:37:21] Like if you focus on the giving, it's like that's also a very important point.

[00:37:25] So like just organically adding value to your list is a really powerful tool.

[00:37:29] Yeah, for sure.

[00:37:30] Brian, there are so many people who need your help.

[00:37:33] How do people get in touch with you?

[00:37:34] If somebody needed to talk about working with you, how would they reach out?

[00:37:37] Yeah, sure.

[00:37:38] Probably the best way is just through our website.

[00:37:41] It's careertreenetwork.com.

[00:37:44] Otherwise, I'm on LinkedIn as well.

[00:37:47] Just search for career tree network or Brian Widener on LinkedIn.

[00:37:52] Those would probably be the best ways.

[00:37:53] And I'm always happy to chat.

[00:37:54] I'm not much of a salesperson, so I'm willing to chat about this

[00:37:58] without any expectation of selling you something.

[00:38:01] And yeah, it's fun for me.

[00:38:03] I'm happy to help.

[00:38:04] Yeah. And if anybody wants an unbiased opinion

[00:38:08] about what it's like to work with Brian, feel free to reach out to me as well.

[00:38:11] Because I actually do work with Brian quite frequently here recently.

[00:38:14] So you can email me at adamatptoclub.com.

[00:38:18] Brian, let's do it again someday.

[00:38:19] Awesome. Thank you.

[00:38:20] Thanks, man.

[00:38:21] That's a lot of fun.

[00:38:22] Peace out.

[00:38:22] Yep, thank you.

[00:38:23] Thanks for joining us today in the Physical Therapy Owners Club,

[00:38:27] the resource for stability and freedom in your PT practice.

[00:38:30] Reach out and join the network today.

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