Search and Destroy with Tom Dalonzo-Baker

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[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to Untold Physio Stories Podcast.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host Dr. E with Modern Manual Therapy, Edge Mobility System and our four-month online mentoring program, Modern Rehab Mastery.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Today with me is Tom DeLonzo Baker, the founder of TMR, Total Motion Release.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: People have been telling me in my courses for years, I've got to take his course and apparently,

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if as many people have been telling Tom that, but he said that some people have been telling Tom that as well.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: We just got together a couple of weeks ago.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We found out we have lots in common, motion-based releases, six children, no hair.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's so true.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so when I was in the middle of taking his course last week,

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought there was a particular module called Search and Destroy that was a great story that really resonated with me.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So before you tell that story Tom, why don't you give a quick intro to yourself, talk a little about TMR and then tell the story.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Cool. Awesome. All right. Yep. He's right.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So Tom DeLonzo Baker, I'm a physical therapist for 25 plus years.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I was a teacher before that, which makes sense of why I'm teaching now and so much of what I do.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in Raleigh, North Carolina.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Like he said, I've got six kids from 10 to 23.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And in 2001, I had an aha moment and discovered basically how to use all four quadrants of the body rather than just the injured region to fix somebody.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So basically when you come to total motion release, it looks like basically we take the motions that work in the body away from the area of injury oftentimes to change it.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And they typically change faster than doing the area of injury or else nobody would listen to me.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so when you see it come on, like last night I had 25 people online, had an average improvement of treating all those people of about a 70 percent improvement.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So and again, none of them treated their area of injury.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really a unique concept to see because it's so unusual.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But as soon as you do see it, you go, man, that makes common sense.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: How come we aren't treating the rest of the body?

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So right. Yeah, it does.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I actually ended up using it on myself because you assess and you treat yourself when you go along with the course.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was able to help mitigate some low back pain that my own approach was not quite so helpful at.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So tell us about the search and destroy and kind of talking someone off a ledge in a way.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. So here's how many times have you had a patient that comes in and maybe they don't say it, but they're looking at you or maybe they don't come in and you call them and they say,

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I never want to do the have you do that technique again or whatever we did yesterday was horrible.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the first right we all have right.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing I want to validate them, I said, look, I am absolutely fine if we never use what we just did again.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yet can we go through your day and determine whether that was truly the thing that caused it?

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you OK doing it? If you're OK doing that and finding it and seeing it,

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm OK that if we find out that's the thing, we'll never use it again.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And they usually say yes. So I validate them and make them feel good whether I'm on the phone trying to get them back in because they're not coming back in or they came back to the office and whether they're saying it or they're expressing it through their emotions.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I do it this way. So I'm going to give an example of a person who came into my clinic.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: We use the scale instead of one to 10, one to 100. So he came in with like an 80 out of 100 back pain.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: We got his butt all the way down to like a five or a 10.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He left, came back in the next day and said, don't ever do that on me again.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like that. I got significantly worse.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, OK, cool. Can I? And I gave him those feels I just showed him in it.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And so what we did is I said, you were here at I think it was 11 o'clock from the moment you left.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Because what I'm trying to span out is if what I did taking from what he did really, because I taught him, going from an 80 to a 10.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: If that comes back in five minutes from the time he leaves to the time he gets in his car, I know that this is something we need to take a look at because it's not it's something else in his body.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But if he gets in his car, drives to work.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And he gets out of the car and has a problem, we know it's probably something to do with sitting or driving his legs or blah, blah, blah.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So let me just take you through the way I look at it through the day.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I said to him, I said, OK, when you left here, you were at a 10.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, that's one one out of 100.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so now I did one out of 10. You're at a 10.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You're very low. When you got to your car, were you OK?

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. I said, cool. I know you went to work.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You're at work and I try to do this quickly just to find the chunk of time.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So he goes, yep, I went to work. I said, when you got to work, were you OK?

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Still doing about a 10. Yep. Absolutely.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's OK. Cool. When you got out of work, right, just finished up work.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: How are you? Yep.

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't notice anything. OK, dinnertime.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't notice anything.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, OK, bedtime. I was in pain.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But now I know I have between dinnertime and bedtime to figure out what happened.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd said to him, what did you do?

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And the often answer is I didn't do anything, which means I know that they're in a position.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably causing their pain.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: This gentleman here said, OK. And I told him that I said,

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: usually that means you're sitting around somewhere and just hanging out.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He said, yeah, I was. And I said, what were you doing?

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, I was watching Monday Night Football.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And he instantly said, you can't take away my Monday Night Football.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no. That's not what I'm saying.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, we're going to see.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Before you sat down, did you have pain?

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, no. And he goes, oh, my gosh.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, I do have pain when I sit in my Lazy Boy.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, OK, well, let's just see.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And then he said, don't take my Lazy Boy away from me.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, let's just see. OK, just chill.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And because what we did is we put both legs.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I put him in a chair. I put another chair in front of him like he had a Lazy Boy.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And I told him to put both legs up.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, right then his back pain was about a 40 out of 100.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. And I said, put both legs up as if you're sitting in the Lazy Boy instantly shot up to an 80.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So we knew something that and I said, OK, he just said, don't take my Lazy Boy away.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, well, you do me a favor. Just drop one leg off.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So he had his left leg up there. Right one is on the ground.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, pain went back down.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I said, put the right one up, left one down. Boom.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Pain shot right back up.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So very quickly he goes, wait a second.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You're just telling me basically silly.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I can use the Lazy Boy, but check that out as soon as something painful occurs.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Change your position. Please do it right side versus left so you can tell what works and doesn't and then proceed from there.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so, you know, I'm doing it from a TMR logic or total motion release logic,

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: but you two can do the exact same thing and really narrow in and hone in to say it was sitting.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. We could have changed maybe the height of his sitting in the in the in the clinic.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Maybe maybe it's just the sitting.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So we put him on two chairs or three chairs or maybe a stool.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, yep, no pain now. OK, cool.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Watch TV with a stool.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe maybe he's sitting on the left side of the couch and he's leaning towards that armrest because his wife's over there.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And he so maybe we can mimic that, put it over there to the left, let him lean a little bit.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And he goes, yep, that takes the back up to 60 or 80.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I go go over to that side of the couch, lean on it.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: He goes, no pain. I go kick your kick, kick your wife over there and see if she gets pain.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And you go sit on the right side of the couch.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's many things that then factor into those variables.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So that becomes your nice search and destroy.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I've yet to find somebody who that didn't work.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had people leave, like start to leave.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And within five minutes, they had it.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, which we brought him back in his age.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: There's something else going on, but they knew it beforehand.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Or I've had people go from 80 to a 10 and then they go to get up and walk start to walk out of clinic and go.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't think that doesn't happen.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But as far as people coming back in and saying they've had pain and we can just distinguish when it came is there.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I want let me extinguish one thing, because a lot of people say I woke up in the morning.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And had it. You'll get that a lot.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll say, all right, all the way up to bedtime.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_01]: You're OK. Yes.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: At that point in time, I'm either going to address their sleeping position.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And it really sucks if you're really, really hard sleeper.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. But I'll try.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just assume this one's not all right.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And I will test them laying on the right side, laying on their left side, testing where their favorite position is, whether it feels good.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Lay him on their belly, lay him on their back.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say, is there a way that you think you're supposed to lay?

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And some people, yep, I got to be on my back, my head up, blah, blah, blah.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, let's see if it's comfortable.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say you need to be allowing your body to move into comfort as you go through the night.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you're changing positions, let it be changing.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, don't go with that mindset.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But again, you know a little bit more about total motion release.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to dive deep into that.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But the one part is if it's sleep now, I'm looking much more at the sleep positions.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I also say now it's really important in the morning, if you're in pain with a total motion release, you're going to go treat yourself and see if you on your own can get rid of it.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: If you can, chances are why don't you do that at night and see how whether it keeps you better in the morning too.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks for sharing that.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure we've all we've all had the patient who calls in or they come in and they're irate and they blame it on you.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of my favorites, Mackenzie instructors, Dana Green from Syracuse, he would always say when a patient's like, oh, is doing nothing, he would say, well, you have to be dead to be doing nothing.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: That's good. Exactly.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You're doing nothing laying down or sitting somewhere.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: That's all it's always some static position.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It's some static position that they help her sustain time.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And so many of the episodes of my podcast have always been like, someone leaves under better, either for hours or for days.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And I always tell people if it's for hours, then either you didn't do your resets enough to empty the cup or you did something else to fill up the cup and that's it period because it's it's that five minutes of relief that I think is a more difficult patient or we didn't do some we didn't address it like we thought we did.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, when someone can keep relief for hours, say like you can keep if you can go hours, you can go days, you can go days, you can go weeks.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And once your weeks, you can pretty much extend it to forever.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: At least as good as your nervous system will let you as long as we can get those hours of relief and give me an hour and we can get you more.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, tell people where if they're interested and I would highly, highly recommend if you have ever taken my course and you're looking for something that is totally complimentary, I would highly recommend to you.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Marr. It's probably the only series of course courses other than integrated kinetic neurology that I have like just been so happy with because it's not like I think I know everything about physical therapy, just everything else is recycled.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think very few things are complementary to my approach in already being eclectic and also something else that just isn't repackaged that I've already learned before in the past.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yes, where can people find you?

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So the website for clinicians is Total Motion Release, like release my hand dot com.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: There's lots of videos on there showing it so that you can look at it and go, oh, my God, that is different than what I've ever seen.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And what you're going to notice about me is that I'm not trying to do a dogma and say this.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll show you if you do this versus this, what's the result?

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Do the better one and you'll begin noticing more and more.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: If you go to motions at work, the motions that don't work will get better very, very quickly.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can treat a knee with a right right knee pain with a left shoulder or right shoulder or left leg and you'll be blown away because it gives you more solutions.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So total motion release dot com.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for your kindness about how much fun you're having doing it.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. I mean, if anything, it just gives you more options, you know, and I think we are absolutely very, very focused on treating the thing that hurts.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And even I'm very focused on treating the thing that hurts.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Even though I just go up and down the chain, it didn't necessarily occur to me to go contralateral and opposite quarter.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Contralateral, I sometimes went but not contralateral opposite quarter.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And it sounds it sounds hokey, but either works or it doesn't work and you can try it for yourself.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's also also one of the only purchase, I think, because it's so systematic.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Tom said, you may have like kind of scoffed that he had maybe 25 people in a zoom call.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's so systematic that as long as you follow the steps, you would just find the things that work and then you just treat yourself.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's it's very much like an algorithm is an instruct.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I like tell people, even though I talk a lot and I don't really like to, I'd rather give you instructions.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Let you follow the instructions. Watch you follow the instructions and say, you missed that right there.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as you get the end of it, it's like a recipe for chicken noodle soup.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You have the chicken noodle soup that the recipe was designed for.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So for sure. Yep. All right. Hey, thanks for coming on, Tom.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to I'm sure you have tons of other stories we'll have you on again.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But I've really been enjoying TMR and I've already started implementing not only on myself but on my patients.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for me on buddy.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no problem. If you guys like this story, you have any questions, make sure to reach out to me on social media and I can put you in touch with Tom and make sure also please rate untoldphysio stories five stars wherever you listen to podcasts, especially Apple and Spotify.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: That helps our discover ability. And as always, you guys have a great day.