Prevention and Saving Lives with Mike Eisenhart

[00:00:00] Welcome back to Untold Physio Stories. I'm your host, Dr. E. This is our podcast with crazy physio failures, interesting cases, and more from rehab pros all around the world. Today, I have Mike Eisenhart joining me. Mike and I met on my podcast many years ago. Some of you guys may have listened to it. It was called Therapy Insiders with Dr. Gene Chiracobrod, myself and Dr. Joe Palmer.

[00:00:28] And when I interviewed Mike that long ago, I basically just thought he was like the nutritional plant-based PT guy, athlete. You know, I didn't realize that he had this whole other brand and that was just part of it.

[00:00:44] And then, you know, I saw him post on LinkedIn or he reached out to me and said, hey, you know, I am having trouble kind of filling a position.

[00:00:52] So that's what I realized. There's this whole other thing to Mike and his company.

[00:00:57] And, you know, why don't you give a quick background, Mike, and tell the story of how you formed it or any kind of interesting stories you got from proactivity.

[00:01:08] Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be back with you. That was many years ago.

[00:01:12] And that was such a funny thing for me to think like the biggest part of what we do is the part that that got missed.

[00:01:19] So long story short, proactivity has always been in the business of prevention.

[00:01:23] You know, really, since the very, very beginning of our practice, I started my practice with my sister in 1998, 99.

[00:01:31] And within a year, I sort of knew that I wasn't going to be in the clinic.

[00:01:35] That was sort of like the only thing I learned in the first six months of owning a practice was me in the clinic on the long term wasn't going to work out.

[00:01:42] I found my pathway toward employers, you know, and this was kind of before there were direct to employer models or it was cool to talk about population health.

[00:01:50] This was like in the trenches, awful work, you know, construction workers early in the morning.

[00:01:55] And the basic idea was, boy, if we could get ahead of some of these problems, if we could help people by getting ahead of some of their risks,

[00:02:02] we can keep them pain free, keep them functioning and sort of keep them strong over the long term.

[00:02:08] That resonated with me completely as a professional and it just made good sense.

[00:02:12] And although at the time prevention was sort of like a four letter word in the world of PT, like we can't prevent things.

[00:02:19] We've now come so far into realizing that healthy lifestyle and health overall can be impacted by what we do every day.

[00:02:26] So, yeah, for 26 years, we've been building a practice that focuses primarily on that and we work with large employers to do so.

[00:02:34] And it's awesome work and it's fun and it's challenging and it's very, very different than most people's vision of PT.

[00:02:42] I agree. Because so when Mike and I reached, when Mike reached out to me and I said, oh, yeah, you know, let's do a webinar.

[00:02:51] And do you have any positions available in Buffalo? Because I think I'd be interested in a part time.

[00:02:57] And there was a position and I accepted.

[00:03:00] So I don't know if you guys saw we haven't.

[00:03:02] I don't know if it's been officially mentioned on LinkedIn, but you guys made the social media post.

[00:03:07] But I did join proactivity and it is not like what I think, you know, actually, I'll probably be posting today on LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram about it.

[00:03:17] And the title will be, oh, the places you go, the things you will see, you know, like the Dr. Seuss book.

[00:03:24] Because, yeah, you don't I don't expect as a PT to be wearing like I just kind of thought of it.

[00:03:31] Hey, I'm going to have like a table in a warehouse or something.

[00:03:34] And I didn't I didn't imagine that it really would be primary and preventative.

[00:03:39] And when you talk about being embedded in a population, we think, how do you prevent things?

[00:03:43] You prevent things over the long term.

[00:03:45] You know, you do its educational piece after educational piece after educational piece.

[00:03:52] You lead stretching sessions.

[00:03:53] You give them nutritional information, any kind of movement prevention.

[00:03:59] You're there, of course, for triage and for treatment.

[00:04:01] But that is probably the least part.

[00:04:02] I mean, how do you prevent things over time with just a lot of little nuggets?

[00:04:07] I just feel like you're just giving them slight nuggets of information to slowly change behavior.

[00:04:13] Because, you know, you talk to a group of people who, you know, you try not to say, hey, this is how I want you to do your job.

[00:04:22] Some people are curious and some people are not.

[00:04:24] But luckily, I've been I've been mentored by Dr.

[00:04:29] Mark Siolic and he's a rock star at the job.

[00:04:32] He actually loosened the pickle jar lid for me.

[00:04:35] I mean, because every time I do an educational piece in front of like 18 mechanics, I would say only two of them are, you know, kind of giving me a hard time or not standing up or not moving.

[00:04:45] And, you know, maybe one of Mark's flyers got made into a paper airplane and thrown at me.

[00:04:50] But I kind of expected that stuff.

[00:04:52] And the rest of the people, I mean, the rest of the people are just they're curious.

[00:04:56] And, you know, maybe not everyone wants to move.

[00:04:58] I get some moans and groans.

[00:04:59] But I would say 95 percent are engaged.

[00:05:02] And I wouldn't have wanted to start this cold, you know, like, hey, I'm coming in and for a pilot project.

[00:05:08] So I don't know.

[00:05:09] Do you have any crazy stories about like changing behaviors or what have you seen over the years?

[00:05:15] Because I've heard some great stats from Amy.

[00:05:17] So many, right?

[00:05:18] I mean, so many.

[00:05:19] That's like it is.

[00:05:20] It's wild.

[00:05:21] I mean, the evolution over time has been super cool.

[00:05:24] When we first started, people were outright resistant.

[00:05:28] You know, I mean, it was sort of hostile territory in a sense.

[00:05:32] You know, you're going in.

[00:05:33] And so this is in the late 90s, early 2000s.

[00:05:36] And I mean, in general, people still didn't believe these basic nuggets that you're talking about.

[00:05:42] You know, like this wasn't common knowledge.

[00:05:44] So when we were talking about things like your smoking habit as it relates to your pain, like that was off the wall.

[00:05:51] Like that was a concept that wasn't well documented or proven.

[00:05:54] And, you know, inflammatory diets and how that might relate to your aches and pains.

[00:05:58] And people very much still believed in this idea of like, well, if I lift that heavy thing, I'm going to strain something.

[00:06:02] And certainly we know that that's a factor without a doubt.

[00:06:05] But there's this whole person that we're dealing with and these sort of overall systems.

[00:06:10] And so, yeah, in the early years, it was wild.

[00:06:12] I mean, just things that we saw in good and bad.

[00:06:16] I mean, things that blew our mind and helped us to kind of realize like what an impact you can make.

[00:06:21] I mean, the first time somebody comes up to you and, you know, very heartily looks you in the eye and says, you changed my life.

[00:06:28] It's powerful.

[00:06:28] And it's like, how could I have done that with that simple conversation or that little interaction, as you said, over the long term?

[00:06:35] And so the model itself lends itself to that.

[00:06:38] And it's like you're building these deep relationships and you're talking about people's lives and what matters in real life.

[00:06:43] And we're not pressured for time.

[00:06:45] So like if I'm going to spend 10 minutes talking to you today because we have that time, like great.

[00:06:49] But I'm going to do that every month for the next 10 years.

[00:06:52] We're going to get somewhere, you know.

[00:06:53] And so now people start to build like some autonomy and some agency over their health and they start to believe they can control these things.

[00:07:01] And that's awesome.

[00:07:02] So, yeah, I mean, geez, the first time I saw something was New Brunswick, New Jersey.

[00:07:08] And I've told this story before, but it was really impactful for me.

[00:07:11] So when you're in industry, and I'm sure you'll see this, you know, you walk in sometimes on like the bathroom doors or something that posts and says like, hey, we're going to go all out and have a drink with Bob.

[00:07:21] He's retiring, you know.

[00:07:22] And so in New Brunswick, New Jersey, it was a gas construction facility.

[00:07:26] So really heavy work, you know, tough on the body.

[00:07:29] And it was exactly that.

[00:07:30] Like we're all going to go out and, you know, to the pub and have a beer with Bob.

[00:07:33] He's retiring.

[00:07:35] And I was there on a once a month basis.

[00:07:37] So I was there.

[00:07:38] I saw that.

[00:07:38] I came back a month later.

[00:07:40] And, you know, Bob had retired.

[00:07:41] I came back another month later.

[00:07:43] And it was we're so sorry about the passing of Bob.

[00:07:46] And that was the difference in the science.

[00:07:47] It was literally 60 days.

[00:07:49] This guy had worked his entire life for that moment.

[00:07:53] You know, when you talk to real people, it's like, look, I'm working so that I can put enough money aside and retire and live a healthy life and, you know, fund my kids' college education.

[00:08:01] Like things that really matter.

[00:08:03] And then he finally got there.

[00:08:04] And 60 days later, like that was it.

[00:08:08] And that just was atrocious to me.

[00:08:11] Like that was like I couldn't like that wasn't an okay.

[00:08:14] That wasn't like we had failed him.

[00:08:16] You know, health care providers overall had failed this guy if he was walking out the door in retirement.

[00:08:21] And that was sort of the end of his life.

[00:08:23] And I don't know all the specifics of it, but that stunned me.

[00:08:26] And I was a very young provider.

[00:08:28] You know, I was 20 something years old, 25 years old.

[00:08:30] And it just stuck with me that, wow, like we could have changed that arc.

[00:08:34] And I mean, we spent a lifetime doing it.

[00:08:37] Now on the flip side, you know, we put our 25 for 25, you know, 25 stories on LinkedIn of 25 years of this.

[00:08:43] So there's 25 good stories if anybody wants to see it.

[00:08:46] Go on LinkedIn to the productivity page and you'll see some really wild stuff.

[00:08:50] But we put that out link so I can stick it into show notes.

[00:08:53] Yeah, I totally will.

[00:08:54] So we put that out there this year just to kind of commemorate 25 years, you know, mostly just because 25 years is a long time to be in practice, right?

[00:09:02] As you know.

[00:09:03] So that basic idea was out there.

[00:09:05] I got a phone call.

[00:09:07] It's literally sitting like on my couch at home and my cell phone rings.

[00:09:11] And it's a number that I haven't seen in I don't even know how many years.

[00:09:13] And this is somebody who called me from, you know, he's long since retired from an employer that we worked with.

[00:09:18] We had a really close relationship with him.

[00:09:20] And he called me and he said, hey, I just wanted to let you know that I think about you often and you had a major impact on my life.

[00:09:26] Now the story he tells is that Justin, you know, our colleague Justin, saved his life.

[00:09:31] That's the way that he phrases it is, you know, Justin saved my life.

[00:09:35] And the reason why was because Justin helped him with his knee.

[00:09:39] And this guy was a, you know, long-term habitual runner.

[00:09:43] And he was in a high-stress situation, a high-stress job, and he couldn't run because his knee was bothering him.

[00:09:48] And it was affecting his mental health.

[00:09:50] And he's the first one to tell you, like, this was having a major impact on my mental health.

[00:09:55] And Justin helped me in my office one day to get my knee resolved and get me back out on the road.

[00:10:01] And as far as he tells it, he's convinced that changed the trajectory of his life, maybe saved his life.

[00:10:07] Like, you hear stories like that.

[00:10:09] It's like, man, we have a massive impact if we're in the right place at the right time with the right folks.

[00:10:15] And so that's what we've tried to build.

[00:10:16] You know, just take the barriers down and get where the people are, and you can really make some change.

[00:10:21] Yeah, I like – when I did the webinar, it was actually before I started with you guys.

[00:10:26] I had already signed on, but I didn't start.

[00:10:29] And I didn't really – the embedding thing, again, I just pictured it as a PT clinic inside.

[00:10:36] But, I mean, actually, where I am, there is no PT clinic, you know?

[00:10:42] I mean, we walk around with a table, and we do triage, and we do these little 10-15-minute treatments,

[00:10:46] which actually works perfect for the way I approach people because it's kind of like when I see people in church,

[00:10:51] or I see a family friend, or like, hey, what about my shoulder, this or that?

[00:10:55] And I just, like, do a quick assessment, give them a couple of resets, and, you know, eight times out of 10,

[00:11:00] they're happy with, like, the amount of resets that I gave them.

[00:11:03] Or even if someone sees me in a gym or, you know, I can't – I don't have time.

[00:11:07] But it's perfect for that.

[00:11:08] But, yeah, I mean, even on my first day with Mark, there was a guy who Mark had been talking to,

[00:11:14] and he's like, yeah, every single one of my brothers has died at 55 of a major heart attack.

[00:11:21] We all had high cholesterol and everything.

[00:11:23] And he's like, my doctor just took my blood pressure last week, and the diastolic was, like –

[00:11:29] I don't even remember.

[00:11:31] I was just, like – I think it was, like, 120 or 130.

[00:11:34] And I was, like –

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:35] And he said, oh, my doctor said, I'll monitor it, like, once a month, you know?

[00:11:40] And I was, like, whoa.

[00:11:41] Yeah.

[00:11:42] So, yeah, it's these little suggestions, like, well, you know, we take it.

[00:11:46] It's still crazy, high diastolic.

[00:11:50] And then, you know, this is a simple suggestion of – he's already changing his diet.

[00:11:55] You know, he's already, like, being made fun of in the lunchroom because he's bringing in carrots.

[00:11:59] It's a good sign.

[00:12:00] And he, like, he turned down the – all the cake that someone had brought in for someone's birthday.

[00:12:06] So, you know, he was already there.

[00:12:10] Sure.

[00:12:10] But the fact that his primary had said, like, yeah, let's just monitor that was kind of crazy.

[00:12:16] Yeah.

[00:12:16] You know, I mean, because I left that day without even being sure that I wanted to – that was just my observation day before I really, like, started with you guys.

[00:12:24] I just thought – I've been asking about him ever since because he actually moved from there.

[00:12:28] I haven't seen him yet, but he moved into, like, management, like, a higher position.

[00:12:31] So, I think he's, like, not necessarily as stressed.

[00:12:34] But – or maybe it's more stressful.

[00:12:36] I don't know.

[00:12:36] But we just – it's a simple suggestion of I think you need to follow up with more with that or see a different doctor or see a cardiologist or something, you know, because he's already making those little lifestyle changes, recognizing that, you know, he needs to change before what happened to all his brothers happens to him.

[00:12:58] And that's when I thought, wow, this is so powerful because we often complain about being tertiary providers or how can we get even more of the patients that see the chiropractor or something like that or the massage therapist or more of a direct access.

[00:13:12] But, I mean, really being embedded in him and seeing these people day after day after day, following up with them even for 10 or 15 minutes every other week.

[00:13:20] And every time I follow up with someone, whether it's wellness or just for, you know, a simple MSK issue, I just set my calendar.

[00:13:27] Hey, follow up with this person in two weeks.

[00:13:29] Or, you know, if I'm ever in, like, their area, if I'm in, like, the maintenance area, I just, like, search them out and follow up with them.

[00:13:35] Like, hey, how's this going?

[00:13:36] Or how's your sleep?

[00:13:37] Or, you know, have you started with more fiber?

[00:13:41] Have you stuck to the outside of the grocery store instead of the inside?

[00:13:44] All the little things I tell my patients, but I feel like it's not as impactful because when I discharge my patients, I discharge my patients.

[00:13:50] These people, like, they can't get rid of me.

[00:13:52] That's right.

[00:13:53] You know, so it's great.

[00:13:55] Yeah, well, and sometimes that's it, right?

[00:13:57] Is that idea of, like, hey, I'll see you next week or I'll see you next month.

[00:14:01] Like, that creates some level of accountability.

[00:14:03] And just as you said, I mean, it is.

[00:14:05] It's those little things that really go a long way.

[00:14:08] You know, that idea of, no, sir, you are in hypertensive crisis.

[00:14:13] We need a little more than the occasional check-in.

[00:14:16] I was flabbergasted.

[00:14:18] And Mark's like, oh, these small-town docs.

[00:14:20] I'm like, I don't know.

[00:14:21] I mean, this guy's like, he was in Niagara Falls.

[00:14:23] I wouldn't call it, like, a small-town doc, but yeah.

[00:14:26] I mean, yeah.

[00:14:27] And you'd be surprised.

[00:14:29] Like, we see both extremes, you know?

[00:14:31] I mean, sometimes we see any little thing go off and people are, like, you know, sucked right into the flume of the healthcare system and medications and procedures.

[00:14:39] And then other sides, it's sort of like, you know, nothing.

[00:14:41] Like, hey, let's watch and wait.

[00:14:43] And, you know, our job, I think, is to sort of be in the middle and help people translate, you know?

[00:14:49] And I think that's really what it is.

[00:14:50] It's like you're an advocate.

[00:14:51] You're an asset on the ground.

[00:14:53] If nothing else, you understand the language.

[00:14:54] You have enough knowledge to guide people and give them some tips and thoughts.

[00:14:57] And then hand them back the controls.

[00:15:00] Like, okay, look, you are flying this thing.

[00:15:03] I'm your co-pilot maybe, but, like, we're going to get you where you need to go.

[00:15:07] But there's a lot to it.

[00:15:09] It is complex.

[00:15:10] It's easy to get confused when it comes to health and healthcare.

[00:15:14] So, yeah, like, that navigator concept seems to work.

[00:15:16] And just as you said, that little consult that we all do every day of our life for family and friends.

[00:15:22] Like, I mean, if you're a PT, once the word gets out, you know how it goes.

[00:15:25] You know, somebody's texting you or calling you.

[00:15:27] And you're giving them that little 15-minute what we would call mini-clinic or mini-consult.

[00:15:32] Like, that's a model of care.

[00:15:33] And we know it works.

[00:15:35] Like, you can sort of, hey, try a few of these things.

[00:15:37] I'll check in with you.

[00:15:38] Let me know how it goes.

[00:15:39] Like, that can work if we catch things sort of early.

[00:15:42] When we're catching things really, really late and you're in that tertiary role, like, no, now you need to roll up your sleeves and get to work treating something and kind of unwinding it.

[00:15:50] And, you know, our basic premise is that, boy, if I can be right there when you need me, it's easier for me.

[00:15:56] Like, I don't have to work as hard.

[00:15:58] Like, I'm going to get that result pretty quickly because I only need to do one thing, not five things.

[00:16:03] And I can still walk you back.

[00:16:04] And so, yeah, like, it's really just, you know, there's this old saying, and I say it a lot, give the laziest person the hardest job and you'll find the easiest way to do it.

[00:16:12] Well, I'm the hero in that story.

[00:16:14] I'm the laziest person, right?

[00:16:15] And so, like, our practice is essentially, like, let's make it administratively easy to affect change.

[00:16:22] And when you do that, you realize, like, it's much easier for me to get up at 4 o'clock in the morning and be standing where I need to be when I need to be there than it is for me to wait for you to come in the door, you know, with all sorts of layers that I now have to work through.

[00:16:35] You know, that has been an adjustment.

[00:16:37] I've been waking up two days a week at, like, 5 a.m., driving 50 minutes to an undisclosed place because the entire client, I realize now, is like a HIPAA thing.

[00:16:48] Sure.

[00:16:48] It's not just a person.

[00:16:49] The entire client is.

[00:16:50] So my kids find out I did confined space training, you know.

[00:16:55] I don't know if you ever watched the movie or the documentary The Rescue.

[00:16:58] Have you ever seen that?

[00:16:59] I don't think I have.

[00:17:01] Well, you probably remember it.

[00:17:02] Like, remember when all those, like, 15 Thai soccer players got trapped in that cave and the whole world was, like, watching and, you know, Elon Musk was like, I'm going to build a sub and.

[00:17:12] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:17:13] I know.

[00:17:13] I remember that story.

[00:17:14] Yeah.

[00:17:15] It's a great, I mean, you need to watch the documentary.

[00:17:17] You absolutely, it is one of, like, humanity's greatest recent achievements because, like, the whole world came together to save these kids, right?

[00:17:24] That's awesome.

[00:17:24] So they're talking about when they finally find the kids after X amount of days, you know, they're like, oh, the room was a little stale because they had been trapped for at least 14 days at this point with just water.

[00:17:37] And they were like, oh, I pull up my O2 meter and it's 15%.

[00:17:40] And that is, they're like, it's not compatible typically with life, you know.

[00:17:46] And then I was like, oh, yeah, in my confined space training, I just learned that it has to be between 19.5 and 23.5%.

[00:17:53] And my kids are also like, where are you working?

[00:17:55] Where are you working?

[00:17:55] I'm like, I can't say, guys.

[00:17:57] I can't say.

[00:17:58] One of my oldest daughters is like, you were doing, like, confined space training?

[00:18:01] Like, why do you know these percentages?

[00:18:04] You know, she's in university already.

[00:18:05] And she's like, what are you, a spy or something now?

[00:18:07] Like, why can't you?

[00:18:08] I'm like, no, it's not exactly that fancy.

[00:18:10] But yeah, I never thought I'd learn about, you know, would be wearing a hard hat and safety glasses and fire retardant clothing to work.

[00:18:19] But it is an amazing opportunity.

[00:18:22] And I think, Mike, actually, if you guys think this is interesting, if you think that you want to get, if you want to really be preventative and make a difference and potentially save someone's life.

[00:18:31] I mean, we've all been told we've saved someone's lives because of, like Justin's example, right?

[00:18:37] Like the knee pain, for sure.

[00:18:39] And that's mentally, that's great.

[00:18:40] But I mean, could we have saved this guy's life by telling him, hey, you need to, like, do a little bit more than just monitor this?

[00:18:46] If you've ever wanted to do that or make these little changes in people's lives that make an overarching change in not only a life but an entire population of workers, I think Mike has an opportunity for you.

[00:18:58] You want to tell him about it?

[00:19:00] Well, yeah, that's, I mean, honestly, that's one of our greatest problems and historically has been is getting the PTs to understand what these opportunities are, you know?

[00:19:10] And, I mean, we have them.

[00:19:11] I mean, at this point, 26 years later, I think we're in, I don't know, 10 or 12 different states.

[00:19:16] And, you know, we've got contracts of every kind and type.

[00:19:19] And our number one problem is finding really good adventurous PTs who are willing to get out of their routine and rut and try, you know, just like you did.

[00:19:28] Like, put yourself out there and see.

[00:19:30] Because almost always people are, like, surprised and delighted, like, with the model.

[00:19:35] You know, they may not want to do it all the time or full time.

[00:19:37] Like, it may not be what they see as their career path, you know, for every hour of the day.

[00:19:42] But almost always it's a refreshing, nice thing.

[00:19:45] Yeah.

[00:19:46] So, like, for example, right now the opportunity you're talking about is in South Carolina, which is probably like a crown jewel gem of an assignment.

[00:19:54] You know, it's in South Carolina, which, you know, we're talking here in the Northeast, which seems like a stretch for people who have sort of roots laid down in an area.

[00:20:02] But this is the full model.

[00:20:04] I mean, they are working in heavy fabrication.

[00:20:07] They're working with a population of around 500 people and their families.

[00:20:11] So this becomes part of, like, family health care.

[00:20:13] They have a beautiful clinical space where they actually treat.

[00:20:17] They just literally built us a new gym space with, you know, fully furnished equipment.

[00:20:22] And, yeah, and we're going to have this opening in the next six months.

[00:20:26] So we're always looking to expand our team.

[00:20:28] The Northeast is where our heaviest need and footprint usually is.

[00:20:32] But this particular opportunity, and, you know, that's kind of what started this conversation between us, is it's too good to not be out there sort of pushing.

[00:20:40] You know, this is not a job.

[00:20:41] This is like an amazing opportunity to work in a great place.

[00:20:45] So, yeah, I mean, for us, you know, we sort of look at it as in an ideal world someday we'll have this army model, you know, where like the army kind of puts you somewhere, lets you learn.

[00:20:56] You know, you develop your skills and then, you know, you bring this to your whatever hometown when you retire.

[00:21:01] You know, that's our hope.

[00:21:02] And that South Carolina opportunity is exactly that.

[00:21:05] We've had two or three PTs who are now in other areas of the country for us kind of holding down and building, you know, who started there.

[00:21:12] And it's been a great one.

[00:21:14] So it's going to come up again soon.

[00:21:16] Six months, I think.

[00:21:17] January, I think, is when we're officially looking to play somebody.

[00:21:21] And in fairness, I mean, we might feel it from inside our own team.

[00:21:24] I know I have people who are in the Northeast who realize what a great place that is.

[00:21:28] And, you know, we're saying like, no, you can't leave the Northeast.

[00:21:31] We need you where you are.

[00:21:32] You know, I need you in New York City.

[00:21:33] You can't go down, you know, to the sunny South.

[00:21:35] But yeah, the opportunities are really everywhere.

[00:21:39] I mean, the wild thing is we've never really marketed.

[00:21:43] As funny as that sounds, like we're not out there really marketing and selling our services.

[00:21:46] Most of the time, it's companies telling other companies who then say, yeah, we need this for our people too.

[00:21:52] And it just makes sense.

[00:21:53] It works.

[00:21:54] And more PTs should be doing it.

[00:21:56] Sure.

[00:21:56] It's more than just like the gym.

[00:21:58] I would say level one would be our corporation has a gym that no one uses.

[00:22:02] Level two is there's a PT that just gives out like it's still just PT in a gym.

[00:22:07] It's not really preventative.

[00:22:09] It's still tertiary care in the gym.

[00:22:11] So if you guys find this interesting, please reach out to Mike or me for more information.

[00:22:16] I can also tell you stories.

[00:22:18] It's only been due in a month, but I'm really excited.

[00:22:21] It is absolutely out of my wheelhouse.

[00:22:23] And it's in and out of my wheelhouse for sure.

[00:22:26] But it's been really exciting so far.

[00:22:28] So again, thanks for the opportunity.

[00:22:30] And if you guys think it's a cool story, please rate Untold Physio Stories five stars wherever you listen to podcasts, especially Apple and Spotify.

[00:22:37] That goes for you, Mike.

[00:22:38] I'll send you a link.

[00:22:40] And that helps our discoverability.

[00:22:42] And as always, you guys have a great day.

[00:22:45] Thanks so much.