405 | Why I Hired A Doula and What They Do With Soul Shine Birth

[00:00:05] Welcome to the Optimal Body Podcast. I'm Dr. Jen. And I'm Dr. Dom. And we are doctors of physical therapy, bringing you the body tips and physical therapy pearls of wisdom to help you begin to understand your body, relieve your pains and restrictions, and answer your questions. Along with expert guests, our goal of the Optimal Body Podcast is really to help you discover what optimal means within your own body. Let's dive in. Okay, there is a little secret that only you, our podcast listeners, are going to know.

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[00:01:00] This is the time to get in and at least start the free trial, at least see what it can feel like. I mean, I, I just appreciate it so much when we get comments like this. I'm currently a Jen Health member and I've also purchased two other premium courses. I'm so grateful for the amazing cueing, thoughtful and detailed instruction and attention to form within all the videos I have taken. I'm seeing incredible progress in my overall range of motion, strength and mobility.

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[00:01:52] So if you've ever wondered about coming in on Jen Health, about being a part of our community and getting into our monthly webinars where I come on live to talk to you, answer questions and provide a full PowerPoint on some educational topic that you chose. This is the time.

[00:02:38] And I actually got my doula in my VBAC experience from Soul Shine Birth. Now, Kelsey and Aurora worked together as dedicated holistic birth and postpartum doulas and childbirth educators, providing exceptional care to families who start as clients and remain as friends. Their passion is unmistakable in their work, driving their mission to transform lives, empower families and ensure positive birth and postpartum experiences.

[00:03:07] by offering tools, love, and resources as your dream support team. Now, for anyone who has been through birth or might want to experience going through birth, you will learn that it is not something you can control. But what you can have more power in is having a positive birth experience no matter what happens. And I truly feel like even though I ended up in a cesarean in my first birth, not ideally

[00:03:33] what I wanted, I still had a positive experience because I had the support and understanding knowledge and advocacy. And there's so much that doulas do that I don't think we even understand or comprehend. A lot of times it's thought of it to be woo-woo. And we're going to break down exactly what doulas do, why they're so important, and why I had a doula in both births. And Kelsey and Aurora truly are just incredible beings as they talk through exactly what soul

[00:04:01] shine is and what sets them apart as doulas as well. So I'm really excited for you to dive into this new episode with us. Aurora and Kelsey, thank you so much for being here, a part of soul shine birth and where I found my doula to help me through my VBAC experience, which was really cool to be able to say. So I just appreciate you both being here and the conversation that we're going to open

[00:04:26] up here, I think is really important because not a lot of people know about doulas or what they do. So anyways, thank you for being here. Thank you for having us. We're so excited and honored to be here. We love being a part of your personal journey. And now we get to talk a little bit at a greater scale and share hopefully with your audience of how wonderful doulas are and the benefits of having a doula as part of your

[00:04:53] pregnancy, birth or postpartum experience and really anything birth we can dive into because we're birth nerds. But thanks for having us. Of course. I love it. And, you know, I hate to admit that I don't know when the first time I would have heard of doulas was or, you know, when it became like a known thing for me, but probably not until we started talking about having kids and the difference between a doula or a midwife

[00:05:20] or, you know, I'm sure there are people listening that are like, what is a doula and what do they do when it comes to birth support? Yeah. So a doula derives from the Latin word women's servant. We have been around for centuries and we are here to support families as they go through this transformative journey, whether it be physical comfort measures, emotional comfort measures, education, advocacy in the hospital.

[00:05:48] We are here for every road that birth takes and starting in pregnancy and then all the way through postpartum, we are here to hold mothers and families as they enter this journey. Taking a quick pause from the interview and being that this is a discussion about doulas and about birth, we thought it was only fitting to talk about what Jen was doing and what I was doing to make sure we were getting the best nutrition and optimizing everything that we

[00:06:14] need needed to successfully conceive, to make sure Jen was getting everything she needed during her pregnancy and even postpartum, making sure that she's getting all the nutrients that she needed for recovery. That's why we partnered with Needed because Needed is a huge and trusted brand in the women's pregnancy and postpartum nutrition space. I mean, it's so important to understand that pregnancy and postpartum are some of the most nutritionally demanding times in a woman's life and a mom and her baby's health now and

[00:06:44] for years to come in the future is influenced by her nutrition status. Needed is recommended and used by more than 4,000 women's health experts and nutritionists, midwives, functional medicine doctors, OBGYNs, and more. We really trust Needed because they use the highest quality ingredient for all of their supplements. They make sure there's no fluffer additives and they use third-party testing to make sure the products are safe. Their products aren't just for pregnancy and postpartum.

[00:07:09] They have something for everyone from multivitamins, magnesium, and more. So head over to thisisneeded.com and use code OPTIMAL for 20% off your first order. That's T-H-I-S-I-S-N-E-E-D-E-D.com and use code OPTIMAL for 20% off your first order. All right, let's get back into the interview. So what would you say, like, why would someone be looking to get a doula?

[00:07:35] Like, what is that support going to look like, especially when you're going into, you know, having birth and already, you know, there's birthing classes and you're going to have your OB support. You're going to maybe have a midwife support. Why would someone want to add that additional support on? Yeah, that's a great question. And Dom, just to, I guess, as part of answering both questions, like differentiating between a midwife and a doula and an OB.

[00:08:03] So OB and midwife kind of fall into that provider category. Birthing parents have the choice to work with an OB or a midwife for their care. And that's going to be the provider that's giving the clinical medical support. Doulas fall into this other category of everything that's not medical or clinical support. And so we're kind of that third party, unbiased person that's here for the family to give them

[00:08:30] guidance, love, support, all the things that Rory mentioned. And really the reasons why is if it's a first time birthing family, they've never done this before. And the world of birth is so unknown and we're so trusting of birth. We'll be the first to say like birth is a natural event. It's not a medical event. And so we believe in birth. And our job really is to take fear out of birth because that journey is so unknown.

[00:08:59] Our human brains like to fill ourselves with fear as a way to try to protect ourselves or to understand the unknown. So as doulas, we take the fear out of birth so that families can be so trusting in the process so that they can have the birth they're desiring. And there's kind of sometimes a stereotype that doulas only work with birthing families who are either birthing at home or unmedicated in the hospital. And that's not true.

[00:09:28] We support all births. We support medicated hospital births. We've even attended and supported cesarean births in the hospital. And we support all the way to the other end of the spectrum of home births, unmedicated birth. And our job isn't to bring in our preferences or biases, but really to inform birthing families so that they get to make the powerful decisions of how they want their birth to look.

[00:09:54] And when they have a doula's guidance, we find that statistically there's better birthing outcomes. We see it in the numbers. So there's like 50% decrease in C-section rates by having a doula. And you, Jen, as a VBAC mom, you know how impactful that is, right? And so when we look at these numbers and the outcomes, we feel like every family would benefit from a doula.

[00:10:23] 31% less likely to have a negative childbirth experience. And 38% decrease in how baby, baby's APGAR, so how they're transitioning to the world. 38% decrease in a negative APGAR score. So it's not just impacting the birthing family, it's impacting the baby too. So for all those reasons and so many more, we believe all families should have a doula in their birth space. And I'm glad you threw some of those statistics out there because I think it's so important

[00:10:50] for people to understand that, especially in, and I know often you'll say low to moderate risk pregnancies, the data speaks for itself. And when people like to say, oh, like, I just want to do it in a hospital with people who know what they're doing or whatever the reasoning is, it's like the doulas know what they're doing and they know how to support people in a way to get the desired outcome. And the data you just said supports that.

[00:11:17] As one of the support personnel, a question that I have is somebody who has a partner family or support group that is involved and going to be there for their birth, why on top of that would they want to add a doula in? And I have my own thoughts on this because we've had a doula for both of our births, but I'll let you go at it. Yeah, that's a great question. And often we like to say that we don't take away from dads or partners.

[00:11:46] We just become one big team and supporting the birthing mom. And it becomes really beautiful to all work together. It also takes a lot of pressure off of the partner able to be with mom and birthing together because it's your special day too. So making it so that you can just be with her instead of having to advocate or remember all the birthing positions or remember what to do next.

[00:12:10] Because yes, excitement and all the special energy, but it's also a lot of adrenaline and nervousness almost, especially if you don't know what's going on or the normal aspects of birth. So it can be hard. So to have a doula there to be your constant, to normalize things that are going on, to be

[00:12:34] progressive in what we could be doing next, to honor your birth space and be the protector so that you can just be together. There are so many reasons why it is beneficial to partners as well. And I think that's another misconception that happens with doulas is that we're there to take away from partners. And that's not it. We just become one big pillar of strength for mom as she's laboring and using all of our tools together.

[00:13:02] I want to go grab my husband and bring him in the room to give his testimony because I can attest as a doula myself with many, many years of experience, which my husband gets to reap the benefits of that. He, I think, has our whole childbirth ed class memorized. He too is like, absolutely, I need a doula there. And Rory was our doula, of course. And every step of the way, he felt supported. And he could look at Rory in times of unknown, of like, are we good? And that's all it.

[00:13:31] We can look at dad and be like, everything's okay. So you don't have to stress. We get to take that stress off. I know Jen and I could both completely support everything that you guys are just saying. Because I, as a physical therapist myself, as somebody who went through lots of courses and manual techniques and everything with her, when you're in the room or when she's in her first, our first birth was going through a 26 hour labor to have a doula there who can

[00:13:57] just be like, hey, go eat something and take an hour nap quick. I got her. Like, I'm here. I'm supporting. And just to have that as somebody who wants to, like you said, be there and be as supportive as possible. Oh my gosh. It was incredible. I know. And then I feel like through the VBAC experience too, it was like, less, I wanted less hands-on, which was interesting. But he was kind of like my person in my face who was like my emotional support, you know,

[00:14:26] so that she could be around me as needed and bringing bone broth or reminding me to eat or reminding me to, you know, do little things and how she could help. Like the way that she flowed from hospital staff to us and in between and made it feel like I don't need to worry about anything. You know, it almost makes me emotional probably because I'm still too postpartum too.

[00:14:50] But, you know, just to remember what a doula really does to support in that instance, like the nurses, you might not have a nurse that you even like or, you know, and then the OBs and the midwives aren't there the full time. So having that doula to actually be there the whole time and really be able to support you through everything is more than I could ever, you know, say. It's just amazing. And I would also say like, you don't know what you don't know.

[00:15:18] And I think especially for first time moms going in, no matter what your plan or expectation is, you don't know what you don't know. And so having that birth expert to help guide or navigate questions or advocate for you and what your needs and what your desires are are huge. But how do people know like what advocacy can look like in hospital or home birth settings? Oh, you've called that some really beautiful things, Jen.

[00:15:48] I think like calling out how the team works together. Like it's it can be such a beautiful thing. I think sometimes it's hard to conceptualize. Like, where does my doula fit into all this? There's like a lot of people. And we've really just become this big, cohesive team. And so the most important thing is mom gets to stay in her primal zone. In labor, she's going nowhere but inside herself. She needs to be within herself and connecting with her baby and her body.

[00:16:16] And so for her to be able not be in that primal zone and the doula just gets to deal with everything else on the outside world is so important. And a big piece that your question is advocacy. And so more so in the hospital, home birth settings are different in that there's less advocacy. There's not hospital policies. So our role as a doula actually looks quite different at home. There's not really any advocating per se, maybe in smaller moments.

[00:16:43] But it's in every hospital birth, the doula is playing an advocacy role. And this doesn't need to look like sometimes we visualize maybe like, are you like fighting with the nurses or the hospital staff? And no, no, we are mom's voice. And we're also that middle person that's giving mom and her partner time and space to understand their options. Things happen really, really, really fast in the hospital setting.

[00:17:11] It's the nature of hospitals, especially labor and delivery departments where it's really high volume. Things are happening fast. And that's just really the hospital's job is to keep moms moving in labor. But labor takes time. So as doulas, one of the most important things we do is slow things down when it comes to decision making, because a lot of decisions in the hospital can't be reversed. And they can have this ripple effect that can potentially negative impact the birthing experience.

[00:17:38] Most families who work with a doula, their goal is low intervention. This doesn't mean no epidural. Some of our families know firsthand, like, yep, I want a medicated birth with an epidural. Perfect. That can be part of the plan. Low intervention, meaning we want positive birth outcomes for mom and for baby. Most moms want a vaginal birth outcome. And so we know statistically, 50% of the time when there's intervention, specifically an induction, it will end up in a C-section.

[00:18:07] And so our job as doulas is to give families the options that they have, because the hospital, unfortunately, isn't going to lay out all these options. So that's really the way we advocate, is informing in real time, because we can take as many birthing classes as we want. We're childbirth educators. We love when families not only are our doula clients, but they take our classes. But we'll say firsthand, in that moment, your logical brain isn't thinking. You're in the primal brain or primal place.

[00:18:35] And so just giving families that knowledge. And then we can speak on mom's behalf. When she's in the bathroom, she's got the shower going, and she's in labor land, and the nurses are coming to check in and trying to offer a cervical exam. We can say, no, mom's doing her thing. Let her be. She's doing perfectly. So there's so many ways that we advocate. But in the birth space, our job is so important in the hospital to ensure that mom and her

[00:19:05] partner get to be at the center of their birth. They're the ones making the decisions. And sometimes in the hospital, families get packed into a corner, and they don't feel like they have a voice. And so we believe that positive birth outcomes happen when the families feel like they had a voice in it all. Yeah. And again, to piggyback off that, no matter how prepared you feel like you are going in, I mean, in both of our births, Jen and I talked at length through kind of the birth process.

[00:19:34] And then if this happens, then we'll consider or do this. There are so many ways that paths that birth can take that different options or different interventions will get thrown at you that you never even expected or you hadn't heard of this one before. What can you do in a situation? Like you said, it's not often or is seldom a doula arguing or yelling with a nurse out in the hallway.

[00:20:03] What can you do in situations where you may come up against a provider who is seeming more aggressive or more forward about you need to do this option for this reason? Because I said so, which is kind of the because I know better and this is what you need to do. And I know Jen and I had one experience and I might steal part of the answer that in the first birth, we went to the hospital and the OB that was on staff because we weren't expected

[00:20:33] to be going in was an OB that we knew we did not like their decision-making strategy from some previous experiences. And Jen and I both immediately were like, who else is on staff? Who else is available? And we just requested a different OB to be in the room with us or to be taking her care on. And so I know that's one option, but what other suggestions would you maybe have if you find yourself in that situation?

[00:20:59] So glad that you knew you had that option because a lot of parents don't know. We believe that first off, it begins with choosing your provider. It is so apparent to have a provider where they exemplify all green flags when you're moving through your birth visions, your birth preferences, no one that is going to come back at you and say, oh, no, that's not how we do things or yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, whatever you want.

[00:21:25] And then at the end, you feel that bait and switch where they're like, oh, actually, this is what I meant by that. So really choosing a provider that you feel aligned with, that they have nothing but support for your visions. They're not going to fight you on the things that you want. So asking the questions in pregnancy is so, so important. But if you do find yourself in a place where at the birth, you have a provider that you

[00:21:54] are finding you are conflicting with, you can always ask for someone else. You could always go home and come back later. Wink, wink from a doula. But you also can stay home for as long as possible or ask for someone else. Like you said, that really is the huge thing. It is really hard to remember that you hold the power, especially when they are throwing fear-based language at you.

[00:22:22] They are threatening things like your health and your baby's health. That can become in such a vulnerable time, too. That can be really scary. And that's when parents all the time will throw in the towel and say, oh, well, whatever works for my baby. So they know exactly just how to get you. So knowing what is safe, having a doula there to normalize what is going on and again, slow things down and say, hey, they're just trying to come at you because they want it their way. We can slow things down and we have these options.

[00:22:52] So knowing you always have the loudest voice, I think Kelsey and I say that in our class 200 times in an eight-hour period is your voice is the loudest. You get to make all the decisions and everyone in that room works for you. It's not the other way around. So just having that confidence and reminders that you hold the power. And they might throw things like it can feel scary. Like Rory said, there can be fear-based language.

[00:23:17] Like we've heard really unfortunate things like mom or baby would be impacted in a negative way. And they're quite frankly, just not true. But without a doula, you wouldn't know that. And being told that during the most vulnerable time, like Rory said, of course, you're just going to say, okay, do that because I don't want a negative outcome for my baby that could be fatal. Um, and it's just, it's unfortunate. And so essentially, you know, starting at the, we say it's like building a house.

[00:23:47] If you have the right foundation with the right provider in the right setting. Now, this is, I think where, um, we, we say like the first birth is not a trial run. And so a lot of times your family say like, oh, my first birth, I'm just going to go with, um, my gynecologist. I've had my OBGYN forever. However, that's not necessarily the great fit. 98% of birthing women fall into a normal low to normal risk category.

[00:24:13] Um, it's really only about 8% that fall into high risk category. Midwives are the best fit for low to moderate risk women because they are not trained surgeons like an OB and OB is a trained surgeon. And so OBs tend to use intervention at a much higher rate. They take on a much higher volume of clientele. So they're, they're motivated by managing the number of clients they have at a given time or patients. Um, and so midwives just by nature use much lower intervention.

[00:24:42] So the big piece that Rory and I, um, have in our birthing families support is in pregnancy, really giving them an understanding of how critical it is to choose the right provider. Because sometimes our hands are tied to your point down, like what happens if you got OB that says you have to do this. Now you can always say, sign an AMA against medical advice. That's always an option, but things happen really, really fast in the hospital.

[00:25:07] And sometimes there's not a chance for a decision else, else why is then they were doing what the OB is saying. Um, and so in that instance, the way we avoid it is maybe not choosing that OB that has a 50% C-section, um, statistic, statistical experience, you know, whereas a lot of midwives it's 10% or less is, um, a birth resulting in a C-section.

[00:25:31] So of course every family is unique, but we know that 98% of birthing women fall into a low to moderate risk category. Yeah. That's so important. I remember, I mean, the reason I stepped away from my first OB. It was the, it was the bait and switch. Like you said. Yeah. She seemed like so great. And, you know, had really good bedside manner, which I think is, it's important, right? We want to feel, especially I had come from a miscarriage. So I wanted to feel like I had a provider that cared about me and all of that.

[00:25:59] Um, but, and she wouldn't answer questions until, Oh, we don't need to answer that yet. We don't need to answer that yet. Like she kept kicking questions down the road until I was like 34 weeks and it was okay. Well, I know I have to be on the bed for birthing, but could I be in any position? Could I be on all fours? And it was like a hard, no, you have to be on your back. I need to be able to see, you don't want to tear, you know, clit to anal. And I was like, what? Yeah. Very fear-based.

[00:26:29] Yeah. And so it was, it was kind of crazy. Um, and that's when I made a switch, but even in my second birthing experience, when I, I was going to go to an OB who I heard also had great bedside manner, great OB, but she worked a lot in high risk pregnancies and I was already being a VBAC. I didn't want to be looked at as a high risk pregnancy who. And geriatric. High risk pregnancy.

[00:26:58] High risk pregnancy. You know, that would be just, um, kind of persuaded over into having the cesarean by the end of it, because that's what she felt most comfortable with dealing with most of what she dealt with. I wanted to be in an environment where it was like, let's see what is possible. And, you know, and I think that's where, again, have, I went to a midwife after all at a hospital, but I was with midwives.

[00:27:27] And then I also was adamant about having a doula that could also support me through that birth setting. And I love that you guys to talk about the differences as well between OB and midwife and where that's important and why someone might want to look into that. And the hospitals do have those options now. Um, but I also know that there's differences in doulas and finding a doula that kind of fits you and your personality and what you might like is also important.

[00:27:55] So can you talk about the differences in doulas? Because I think also the perception a lot of people have with doulas is that, oh, it's woo woo. It's out there. It's that's weird or whatever it may be. Yeah, I, we always say that doulas, finding a doula for you is kind of like online speed dating. You have to have all of that connection. You have to feel that tingly feeling, right?

[00:28:23] And it can go one of both ways. A lot of people go into finding a doula because of they want to know the certification. They want to know how many births you've attended. You want to know what extracurricular certifications you have. Whereas we really don't believe in that model. We don't believe in that there's one governing body of doula certification that you need.

[00:28:52] It really should feel a connection because you are going to be your most vulnerable self during your birth. You want to feel comfortable. You are probably going to be naked. You want to feel that you can be through this rite of passage and the depth of vulnerability with this person. Right. So I'm pretty sure my family for so long thought I would like chant in the woods during births and catch babies in the ocean with tongue drums.

[00:29:22] Right. Which I'm all for that. That sounds great. But we are here to support any births. But also we really believe that it should be a relationship connection. One of our mottos Kelsey and I say is start as clients and stay as friends. And we are so blessed and lucky to have a lot of friends that we've attended their births that they're our family now. Even more so than friends. And that goes a long way.

[00:29:49] So it should just be someone that you really, really see yourself being lifelong tethered to. And also big, big congratulations on your VBAC because that is so incredible. And you did all the right things and finding a doula that you felt connected to. And let's say if it were someone else, you know, who knows? But because you had such a wonderful person with you, you feel that relationship, then you're comfortable.

[00:30:19] Then your vagina is able to open. It all plays a part. Yeah, there's a doula for everyone. And we'll be the first to say we're not the right doula for every single birthing family. And that's okay. It's also why we have a team of 13 amazing doulas. Because we have all different doulas with, and like where I said, experience spans from brand new doulas because we mentor new doulas. We see women trying to step into their purpose. And we are like, yes, like step into your purpose. They're unsure.

[00:30:49] They're like, I don't know. I'm getting this calling. We're like, follow the calling. So we see doulas who are ready to step into their power. And they're like, I'm not sure if I can attend my first birth. We're like, you have it. We believe that doulas and women who serve other women, you're born with this. This is something that, yes, the path calls you. But it's within us. And it's so much about energy and just the innate experience of who we are.

[00:31:19] And Rory and I both start as childless doulas. I have my rainbow baby now. And I get to serve in this new way, which is a really amazing thing. I love that I get to bring my own birthing experience now. But we both were childless doulas. And sometimes it's like, well, wait, how can you be a doula without having experience of birth? We were born with this. It's such an innate thing. And yes, we gain more and more experience over the years. We're always evolving.

[00:31:46] We're always adding new trainings and new education. But it's really within us. And so we encourage families, like Rory, to her point, like we don't have to sit here and go through a laundry list of questions of like a checklist. And like the doula has to like follow this checklist. Just sit down and have coffee with them and see how you feel. Because if you walk away feeling so inspired and encouraged and supported, that's the person. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I interviewed quite a few doulas second time.

[00:32:14] First time it was kind of like a last minute. We're switching everything around. 34 weeks already. Yeah. So I kind of went with who I found. But the second time around, I really got to, you know, sit down and talk with a lot of people and see what was what felt right for me and who I am and my own craziness that I know of to be and what I felt like would match that. And so, I mean, I couldn't agree with everything that you guys are saying and more.

[00:32:43] And I want people to understand how crucial you guys are in what you do. Because you even said you have your own birthing course, right? And so, you know birth so well. I mean, this isn't just like how like, oh, here's some things that you can do to prepare for birth. And here's how I advocate for you. But it's understanding the birth process and what the body goes through, which women don't know.

[00:33:10] And that's, I mean, we want them to know, but it's also okay not to have the knowledge of everything, right? And so what do you guys cover as soul shine doulas that make you guys a little bit different than other people potentially? So what do you guys cover that you really feel like is so important to understand as doulas to be able to provide the support at the level that you want to, whether it's pre-pregnancy,

[00:33:39] birth or end postpartum? Yeah, we're really blessed to offer a whole range of services for families. We love that. It's like a one-stop shop. They typically meet with Rory in pregnancy and chat about all the options they have for their care. And we get to then kind of give them guidance of like, okay, you know, this is like the doula we think. We kind of play matchmaker, like the doula that we think you might vibe with. And, you know, here's our class options.

[00:34:07] We have our, your empowered birth is our birth prep single day immersive, which we are so passionate about. It's probably one of our, we have a lot of favorites of things that we do, but it's one of our favorite ways to support families. Our class is a little bit different. It's a single day immersive different than a lot of courses are anywhere from like four to 12 weeks ongoing, which are amazing. Like we were really fortunate, especially here in Southern California with lots and lots of support.

[00:34:32] Our one day immersive really packs in all of the essential information from things like you said, stages of labor, understanding the complexities of labor, challenges that can occur. Um, how partner can be involved comfort measures. I mean, we've really covered everything, but we make our class so fun. Um, I, myself as, um, you know, someone who's gone through birth also took another class outside of ours just because I wanted to.

[00:35:01] And I have to say after two weeks, we stopped going because it just felt like this chore. Um, and the instructor was amazing. It was nothing about her, but it felt like every Sunday night it was this chore. And so we always say our class in a one day, we just have so much fun. Um, we usually walk away where families are friends and we get, um, hands on and we move around and, um, we, we help families to understand the thing that Roy said earlier, their voice is the loudest.

[00:35:29] So something you said earlier, Jen, where the OB said, you, you have to push on, on your back in the bed because I don't want you tearing. Like that is, that like breaks our heart when we hear families being lied to. And so we give them the information to know that that, that was false. We know that the woman's pelvis is decreased by 30% because of her tailbone when she's on her back forced to be in that position. And so if a family was at our class and they had been told that exact scenario, we talked

[00:35:57] to them about, okay, these are your options, whether that be switching a provider, that's going to allow you to push on all fours or squatting or however you want to push your baby out. And, or we talk about, okay, in that moment, here's what we would do and how we would, um, you know, like different places we'd be in the room and how we tell the OB like, okay, then we have to ask for someone else to come in the room because this is where mom is pushing and we are the doula and we're going to play bouncer.

[00:36:22] And, um, so just really getting down to families, having all of the options that are available to them and not being afraid to ask those questions or to like challenge the status quo, um, or to push back on their provider because at the end of the day, their provider works for them. So that's our, our birth prep class. We're super passionate about it. I'm sure as you can tell, and we also do, um, empowered fourth trimester course that really prepares family for the other 95% of the journey.

[00:36:51] So, um, half of that class is all about caring for mom in her postpartum period. And the other half of the class is all about newborn care. So for first time families, it's a whole world of unknown and, um, we're getting better our current like modern age, but for so long postpartum was just like brushed under the rug and, oh yeah, mom's just like had the baby. Everything's good. And we're going back to normal. And as we know, and as you're experiencing for the second time, you know, going through

[00:37:17] your postpartum journey, postpartum takes so much time and tender loving care and support. And so we're really passionate about equipping families for that period of their lives too. Yeah. I mean, we just try to share things that are a little more vulnerable when we're on these podcasts because it's good to relate. But even just yesterday when Jen and I were sitting there together being like, we've tried to keep the framing of, oh, our baby's in their little squishy stage.

[00:37:44] And we're going to appreciate every little moment that we get to have the contact naps and that we get to be up in the middle of the night with him screaming in our ear. And it also sucks. It's also, I said that we were both like breaking down a bit and I was like, it also sucks. It's really hard. It's a big change. And we can still be very appreciative of it. And I feel like I'm getting a little emotional saying this too, because it is such an amazing

[00:38:11] and magical time, but it's different. It's very different and challenging at times. And it's okay to be able to honor that on top of honoring the sanctity and sacredness of having your little new squishy baby. And I'm sure that stuff that you talk about in these courses, which I really appreciate anyone who has a chance to have that type of education or to at least think about and talk about that a little bit beforehand. So that's really cool. Yeah.

[00:38:40] Thanks for being vulnerable. It's always the safe space with us. And really, we always say that just because something is hard or challenging, that doesn't mean it's bad. And it's where joy can stay at the same time. And often challenge means growth, right? And if we look at it with a mindset of, I can't do this, then that is going to be a different outcome than, hey, I'm learning how to do this. We're taking it step by step.

[00:39:09] We're awesome parents. And this is amazing. Yeah, it's really hard. And 3am, our, this is great, goes out the window. But we can still work really hard to be positive and looking at parenthood in a different light. And it can be so, such a shift when you think of it that way. Do you guys provide postpartum doula support as well as during birth? We do. We support daytime and overnight support. Amazing.

[00:39:39] I had one quick question, kind of stepping back a little bit, but we've talked about like birth plan. And like, a lot of people might not even know exactly what that means. And Jen and I, I talked about how we went through our birth plans and tried to get as in-depth as possible. Do you guys, as doulas, or what exactly are you trying to help coach people through and talk about when you talk about the birth plan? Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question.

[00:40:05] One of our prenatals, typically we meet with families two times prenatally in person in their homes, different than like a clinical prenatal. This looks like sipping coffee on your couch for comfy cozy for a couple hours together, just getting to know each other. We want you to feel that we are someone that you can trust wholeheartedly for that vulnerable journey. So one of those prenatals is typically focused on preparing the birth plan, or like we like

[00:40:33] to say as preferences, because we know birth can't be planned. We can talk about all the options and outcomes, but it is really fluid. Birth is meant to flow. Birth is not meant to be controlled. And when we try to control it, that's when negative outcomes happen. That's also when controlling, we always like loosen the grip and we try to control it. We're not allowing in growth and transformation and change, but we say preferences for that reason. So going through together all of your options.

[00:41:02] So prenatally, we spend an entire couple hours together doing that. And then that's also part of our class. So in that prenatal, we can only get to so much. And so in our class, we really deep dive and pick apart every single option in a more detailed format. But that is a really big part of how parents prepare, because the more that you understand education is power, understanding your options.

[00:41:30] We say when you don't know your options, you don't have any. And so our job is to inform families of all of those options. And then one of our other favorite ways to prepare that birth preference, the preferences or plan is not the clinical freedom of movement, freedom to eat and drink. Those are all wonderful. We also at SoulShine created our own birth planning document. And this is more of the greater, grander vision. It's like the really beautiful things.

[00:42:00] What do I want to smell around me? What do I want to hear? Who do I want in the room? What's my love language? How do I want to be supported by my partner, my doula? Because those things matter too. And when your birth team understands that vision, we can all honor that vision for mom. I think that's so important to remember, especially in like a hospital type setting. You don't know. It can feel very medical. So like, what are you allowed to bring in and what can you use?

[00:42:29] And I know, I mean, where we gave birth, I'm so grateful because they automatically had the lights turned down and twinkly lights on and candles and, you know, all the things. And I was like, this is amazing. It didn't feel like, you know, I was necessarily in a hospital. So it was an amazing setting. But knowing and understanding those preferences. And I've also heard where, you know, some people feel that they have to have their mother or their

[00:42:55] whoever in the room with them and that they don't feel that they can tell them not to be. But that's where a doula can kind of come in to like, okay, maybe we step out during this time or maybe we're not saying that at this time or, you know, to help again, control the environment for the birthing mother, which I think is just so key and so crucial.

[00:43:18] Any last thoughts on, you know, just the reasoning behind having a doula and the support that you guys really provide? Not being biased. Everyone should have a doula. And really, I promise not biased. It's really, it is better birth outcomes and us wanting the your vision to come to life.

[00:43:41] And with a doula, you have a better outcome in that becoming part of your scenario is that your visions can become reality and you can have the birth of your dreams. And it can be so, so special. It's definitely not something that people regret often. I think there are some misconceptions to which I've heard on podcasts as I'm listening to in the car. I'm like, that's not true when they say, oh, my doula is just there to rub my leg and

[00:44:10] I got an epidural and I didn't need her. And, and really that hurts our heart because that's not what we're there for. We are there for so many tangible things, but we're also there to hold space and meet you where you are and being there to adapt to your needs every moment. And we don't know how it's going to unfold. And that is the beautiful mystery of birth. And we hope we never, we hope we never figure it out.

[00:44:36] So really someone to be that fluid riverbank in what you're needing as, as time goes on. You guys say it so beautifully and what you do and what you provide and the whole and understanding the level of support from, from, you know, before birth to postpartum and that hard of a journey as well. And the support that is needed and the support that you provide for the partners and in the,

[00:45:04] in the environment around with the nurses and the OB or the midwife. I think that's all so incredible and so huge and needed. If someone feels like they can't afford a doula, um, are there services that you guys recommend or are there services you guys provide? Like, how can you work with families that feel like this is something I really want, but I don't have the means for it. Yeah.

[00:45:31] We never want a financial, um, challenge to be a reason why someone can't have a doula. Um, there's a lot of options, um, for us on our team, because we have 13 doulas in addition to ourselves, we have a wide range of what a doula can look like that can look like 1400 to 2600. And, and that is all support starting from day one of pregnancy. We say hire, if you're listening to this and you're trying to decide like, should I hire a doula?

[00:46:01] Maybe you're trying to conceive and you're not pregnant yet. You can hire a doula the day you find out you're pregnant. Um, and, and we're there to support you every single day, every step of the way. And so our care is typically in a package, um, um, of, of support. So whether, like I said, on the low end of the scale, 1400, that's support all the way through pregnancy, all the hours of your birth and postpartum. And so it is a lot of support.

[00:46:27] Um, so a sliding scale of, of prices, um, we always offer payment plans for families who need to spread out payments, um, throughout their pregnancy. It's always an option. Um, another little trick is add it to your registry. This is something else that's changing in this like modern world of birthing is we know that babies don't need much. They need food and they need a safe place to sleep. So that's not a lot of things.

[00:46:53] And we can get lost in the like fun of building a registry and all this cute stuff. And as postpartum doulas, we share with families, the more things you have, the harder it makes it. It's distracting. It's a lot more clutter in your space and it just takes away from bonding with your baby. So fill that registry with a birth doula or a postpartum doula package with meal support, things that actually make a difference. So that can be the first line in your registry. Um, so that can offset costs.

[00:47:23] Um, there's a lot of different things we do. Um, and so if you're listening to this and thinking about hiring a doula, hire a doula early in pregnancy, um, have them for their support. It's someone that you can text anytime. We haven't mentioned this yet, but there is a lot that happens in the brain in pregnancy of like, could have, should have, would have, and like, oh my gosh, what if this happens? And what if this happens? And the brain goes crazy. Text your doula. Don't go to Google. Well, your doulas are always as, as a voice of reason, someone you can ask your questions to.

[00:47:53] There's no silly questions. Um, we just meet you where you're at and we provide what you're needing in that moment. So like I think Rory mentioned, we adapt to you. So whether you're needing emotional support, you're needing someone to chat through all your like crazy questions that you feel like you're having, we're here for it all. Of all the amazing tips and information in this podcast, I think that might be one of my favorite things is adding a doula to your registry. Yeah, I know.

[00:48:19] Like we just went through Christmas and birthday season with our older son, his second birthday. I think he mentioned like all this stuff again, amazing gifts, fun things. It's fun to have him open gifts. I'm like, there's just so much stuff that he's going to get sick of after two days. So yeah, finding ways in the new modern age to get the cash for the things that you actually need as a new parent. Or to support the journey or whatever that looks like. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah.

[00:48:49] And I mean, really, I can't be more appreciative of the two of you coming on here. The work you do, what you've put together with SoulShine, the courses. I also appreciate, I believe I saw that you created a discount code for people listening using code Optimal Body. They can get a discount on any of the courses that you guys offer. So thank you so much for that. Where can people go to find these courses or learn more about you guys?

[00:49:15] Yeah, you can find us at SoulShineBirth on Instagram, TikTok. Our website is also SoulShineBirth.com. You can DM us. You can find us on our website, however you'd like. You can find our phone numbers and call us if you want. We are here to meet you however you need us. And really, thank you so much for having us.

[00:49:39] This is such a joy to be able to be connected and also spread awareness of how important a doula is to have through pregnancy, birth, and postpartum, and forever. You can't get rid of us. I know. I mean, it really... The way that you guys... I know we talked about price, but I hope people realize how in-depth you guys are within the journey. Like you said, you could text, you have questions, but you're literally there at the birthing experience.

[00:50:08] Your OB and your midwife come when it's time or they do little check-ins. And your nurse is also there kind of medically, just making sure everything is going okay. But your doula is there to really provide the support through all the stages emotionally and physically. And to have someone there for potentially hours, like my first one was... Days. Yeah. 35 hours, 48 hours. We've been at them all.

[00:50:35] I mean, it's incredible the work that you guys do and the way that you show up for people who are birthing. So we just appreciate the work that you guys do and thank you for being able to share it. Thank you. And we always say we don't go away. Once we're your doula, you can't get rid of us. So we're a part of your journey forever and we're forever friends. And I know we're here in Southern California, so here locally to serve families.

[00:51:02] But if you're listening to this and you're not local, we do our classes virtually too. So if you're outside of Southern California, we can still support you. Perfect. We're grateful to be a part of the Soul Shine family. Forever. Thanks so much for listening. And hopefully you have a better idea of what a doula is, what they do, and why it can be so valuable to have them as a part of your birthing journey. And I hope you understand why Jen and I chose to have them as a part of ours.

[00:51:30] Of course, if you're interested in learning more from them, we'll have everything linked up down in the show notes. You can use code OPTIMALBODY to get $50 off any of their virtual or in-person courses. If you know someone that's pregnant or wanting to become pregnant, please pass this podcast along so we can get this information into the hands of the people that will help the most. If you haven't, please consider leaving a rating and review on your favorite podcasting platform. And we'll see you next time on the Optimal Body Podcast.