378 | Organ Meat, Raw Milk, and Ancestral Living for Optimal Health with Craig McCloskey

[00:00:05] Welcome to the Optimal Body Podcast. I'm Dr. Jen.

[00:00:08] And I'm Dr. Dom. And we are doctors of physical therapy, bringing you the body tips and physical therapy pearls of wisdom to help you begin to understand your body, relieve your pains and restrictions, and answer your questions.

[00:00:19] Along with expert guests, our goal of the Optimal Body Podcast is really to help you discover what optimal means within your own body. Let's dive in.

[00:00:28] Now, a multivitamin I don't think anyone really talks enough about is beef liver. And let me tell you, at the end of my last pregnancy, I actually stopped my prenatals and I only took beef liver because of how nutrient dense it is.

[00:00:41] And this is not only for pregnancy. However, it was interesting to have Lily Nichols on the podcast who talks all about fertility and pregnancy and how beneficial she said getting in beef liver was.

[00:00:54] Now, I can't personally eat it myself. So taking the capsules has made a really big difference.

[00:01:00] And I actually got a compliment from my hairdresser the other day who said my hair is thick, which no one has ever said my hair is thick.

[00:01:08] And my nails have actually been super thick as well. And I'm not taking collagen.

[00:01:12] I'm still taking my prenatals, but I'm also adding in beef liver about three to four times a week.

[00:01:17] Now, even in preconception from ancestral supplements, they have something called female enhancement.

[00:01:24] And this has all the reproductive organs that can help support your own reproductive organs.

[00:01:28] So I was also taking that. And Dom has been taking a lot of their specific ancestral supplements, supplements that are specific more to men.

[00:01:37] And so it's really incredible the changes that we've been able to see and feel in our bodies just by adding this in.

[00:01:43] Now, this is why no one talks enough about it. But liver is nature's most nutrient dense superfood.

[00:01:50] And it's the only meaningful source of fully formed vitamin A, which is retinol, which is so critical for healthy cell repair.

[00:01:58] Now, liver provides the fundamental building blocks like vitamin A, vitamin B12, choline, folate, heme, iron to really fully support virtually all biological functions,

[00:02:12] including methylation and bone remodeling.

[00:02:16] Now, here's the other thing that's really cool about taking liver.

[00:02:20] It can elevate your energy levels. It can support your immune system, improve hair, skin and nails, which I've seen a huge improvement,

[00:02:27] which has been mind blowing because I'm not taking collagen right now on top of all the other supplements.

[00:02:32] Like this is what I'm focusing on.

[00:02:33] It promotes healthy digestion, natural detoxification, strong bones and joints.

[00:02:37] And it's really easy to incorporate into your routine, especially when you have the capsule so you don't have to worry about going out and trying to make liver taste good.

[00:02:46] Because let's be honest, if you haven't grown up with it, it doesn't taste good.

[00:02:50] And this is why we trust and we really love getting all of our supplements from these organs from ancestral supplements.

[00:02:58] Like they really do great quality control.

[00:03:01] They have amazing education and we just trust them so much.

[00:03:04] So you can use code DOCGEN and you're going to get a discount.

[00:03:09] Now, we're going to have it linked up in the show notes, but be sure to use code DOCGEN.

[00:03:13] And now Craig is going to talk so much more about it as well in this episode.

[00:03:17] For this interview, we'll be chatting with Craig McCloskey, who earned a bachelor's of science degree in nutrition and dietetics and a minor in kinesiology from Penn State.

[00:03:26] During his time there, Craig was a two-sport varsity college athlete where he was a swimmer and baseball player.

[00:03:32] He's also a master certified health coach and board certified in holistic nutrition.

[00:03:38] Since then, he's gone on to help educate others on the importance of traditional living as the head of education at Ancestral Supplements, the founder and leader of the Beef Organ Supplement Movement.

[00:03:49] In this conversation with Craig, we talk about everything from what ancestral living is, talk about raw and unpasteurized dairy, organ meats.

[00:03:58] We cover it all.

[00:03:59] So let's get into it.

[00:04:01] Craig, thanks so much for spending some time with us.

[00:04:03] We've been looking forward to having you on because we haven't had a ton of people talk about this kind of ancestral way of living, ancestral way of eating.

[00:04:11] And I know it's so foundational and fundamental to the education that you put out there and the way that you live yourself.

[00:04:17] Yeah, thanks for having me, guys.

[00:04:19] I'm excited to talk about this topic.

[00:04:21] Something I'm super passionate about, you know, growing up and just can't wait to talk more about it.

[00:04:25] Well, let's start there.

[00:04:26] Growing up, like what got you interested in going down this route of like, is this how you grew up?

[00:04:33] Is this what you did, you know, throughout life or is this something that you've kind of stumbled within and upon within the last few years?

[00:04:41] Yeah.

[00:04:42] Yeah.

[00:04:42] So I definitely didn't grow up this way, living a healthy lifestyle.

[00:04:47] I grew up doing the standard American lifestyle, you know, eating fast food.

[00:04:51] I grew up on McDonald's a few days out of the week.

[00:04:54] My grandparents, they are amazing humans, but they smoked cigarettes inside the house and it created a pretty poor health for me.

[00:05:03] I missed a lot of elementary school, junior high, but I was an avid athlete.

[00:05:08] You know, I grew up playing virtually any sport you could think of.

[00:05:11] I love playing sports.

[00:05:12] I took that into my college career.

[00:05:14] I was a swimmer and a baseball player at my university and super athletic.

[00:05:18] And I always understood growing up that nutrition just had something to do with performance.

[00:05:24] I knew that if I ate certain foods, I didn't feel good.

[00:05:26] I knew I needed to just get calories in, but nothing really more fundamental than that.

[00:05:31] I didn't understand micronutrients.

[00:05:33] I didn't really understand vitamins and minerals outside of supplementation.

[00:05:37] And so what really changed for me when I started diving more into the health space and wanting to learn more about maybe holistic wellness, ancestral and traditional living, was my sophomore year in college.

[00:05:51] This was back in 2015 when I was at Penn State.

[00:05:53] My uncle, who was 43 at the time, he passed away suddenly.

[00:05:58] He just went to bed one night and never woke up.

[00:06:01] And it turns out he had a massive heart attack in his sleep.

[00:06:03] And that crushed our entire family, as you can imagine, because he was young.

[00:06:07] He was 43.

[00:06:08] He left behind a couple kids under 10 years old.

[00:06:11] And he was really like a second dad to me.

[00:06:13] And so for a few months, I was just shook.

[00:06:16] I didn't know what to do.

[00:06:17] I was kind of depressed.

[00:06:18] And I really then just developed this love for learning and just wanted to understand why that happened.

[00:06:26] So in addition to going through college, which I was already a nutrition major at that point, I really loved learning about nutrition.

[00:06:32] I started traveling to courses and events and just reading all the books, listening to all the podcasts.

[00:06:39] And I really wanted to learn more about it.

[00:06:41] And so to make a long story short, what I learned outside of my university really kind of competed with what I was learning inside my university in terms of the nutrition, especially because, you know, I talk about eating red meat and ancestral living and raw milk and seed oils.

[00:06:57] And all these things are kind of posed, you know, what I was learning in my nutrition.

[00:07:01] So my uncle's story and then my athletic endeavors is really kind of what shaped me into why I'm doing what I'm doing today.

[00:07:09] Let's take a quick pause from the interview.

[00:07:11] Being that we're talking about nutrition and optimizing what we're putting in our bodies, I felt it was only fitting that we talk about Needed.

[00:07:18] Needed is the company that Jen and I were both getting supplements from prior to conceiving our second child to make sure that we were getting everything we needed.

[00:07:27] That's why they're called Needed.

[00:07:28] I was taking supplements to support proper and optimal sperm health and also just a men's daily prenatal multivitamin.

[00:07:36] Again, it helps support sperm health, but also my overall health.

[00:07:40] Make sure that we had the best chance of conceiving.

[00:07:43] We have both continued to take Needed supplements since conception, and that was months ago now.

[00:07:48] And I just absolutely love it because they make sure everything they do is 100% backed by research.

[00:07:53] They don't have any fluff or unneeded fillers, and they use the optimal and best version of each vitamin and mineral that you'll find in their supplements.

[00:08:01] And the best part is it's not just for people who are looking to conceive or looking to get optimal nutrition while they're pregnant.

[00:08:07] They have supplements for every stage of life.

[00:08:10] So you can head over to thisisneeded.com and use code OPTIMAL for 20% off your first order.

[00:08:16] That's T-H-I-S-I-S-N-E-E-D-E-D.com.

[00:08:21] And make sure you use code OPTIMAL for 20% off your first order and make sure your body is getting what is needed.

[00:08:28] Let's get back into the interview.

[00:08:29] So, you know, we've mentioned it a couple times, like this ancestral style of living or ancestral style of eating.

[00:08:36] Can you just explain a little bit more what that means?

[00:08:39] You know, what exactly that is, what foods we're eating, what foods we may not be eating,

[00:08:44] and what you saw, whether that was in the research or, you know, diving into more textbooks, whatever it was,

[00:08:53] what you saw that made you think this is the right way to do it?

[00:08:57] Yeah, so I like to experiment and just kind of figure out.

[00:09:01] I've done a lot since then in 2015.

[00:09:03] I've tried a lot of different style of diets, dietary frameworks, and figured out what worked for me and what didn't work for me.

[00:09:09] And ultimately, what I've kind of just come back to is just the simplicity of nutrition,

[00:09:13] because I think sometimes we can make it super complex.

[00:09:16] I like to keep things super simple.

[00:09:18] And I ask the fundamental question, what did humans do for the longest time?

[00:09:23] And really, you don't get much more fundamental than realizing humans did what was local to them.

[00:09:28] What did they have locally?

[00:09:29] You hear about hunter-gatherers.

[00:09:31] Sure, they had wild meats and they foraged their own fruits and vegetables.

[00:09:35] But really, just eating a locally in-season diet is really one of the best things that you can do.

[00:09:41] And we can talk about how to kind of makeshift that and how to shop your grocery store.

[00:09:45] But that's really what makes a fundamental diet accessible to me.

[00:09:50] So really, ancestral living, ancestral eating is just doing what's local to you.

[00:09:57] It doesn't mean living like a caveman, in my opinion.

[00:09:59] It doesn't mean going back and carrying a club around and doing that.

[00:10:03] It really just is going and living life simply.

[00:10:06] That's basically the framework.

[00:10:08] Well, and I want to go back a little bit because you said there was such a dichotomy

[00:10:12] between what you were getting in school and what you were learning outside of school.

[00:10:18] So why do you think there was such this difference in what they were teaching?

[00:10:23] And why do you think that what you were learning outside wasn't necessarily being taught in the school?

[00:10:29] This goes back.

[00:10:30] I mean, this could go back into the early 1900s.

[00:10:33] I mean, we could talk about the financial gain of certain corporations,

[00:10:36] the politics behind a lot of things.

[00:10:39] But really, I mean, this goes back to the American Heart Association in the 1950s,

[00:10:43] throughout the 1970s.

[00:10:45] When you learn about the science behind saturated fat and cholesterol,

[00:10:49] and you realize that, I mean, Procter & Gamble,

[00:10:52] one of the creators of Crisco back in the early 1900s,

[00:10:55] in the 50s, they paid the American Heart Association

[00:10:58] the equivalent of like $20 million back then.

[00:11:00] It was like $1.2 million.

[00:11:02] And soon after that,

[00:11:04] the American Heart Association started recommending seed oils,

[00:11:06] demonizing saturated fat and cholesterol.

[00:11:09] Then in the 1980s, which is where the dietary guidelines stem from,

[00:11:13] that's where I got my nutritional education from.

[00:11:16] That's where all dieticians get their educations from.

[00:11:19] And in the 1980s,

[00:11:21] they put out the dietary guidelines saying to limit sodium,

[00:11:24] limit saturated fat and cholesterol.

[00:11:26] And it really wasn't based on any sound data at that time.

[00:11:30] It goes back to politics and financial gains.

[00:11:34] So in the 1990s,

[00:11:35] they came out with the popular food guide pyramid,

[00:11:38] which, you know, seven to 11 servings of whole grains.

[00:11:41] Bats were eaten sparingly at the tippy top of the pyramid.

[00:11:44] They shifted that to my plate in 2015.

[00:11:47] And now it's a little bit better,

[00:11:50] but it's still not ideal.

[00:11:51] And that's where we're getting a lot of our information when we learn from

[00:11:55] the universities like I went to.

[00:11:57] But yeah,

[00:11:58] when you kind of peel back the layers a little bit and start just

[00:12:01] widening your perspective and kind of learning from maybe more updated

[00:12:05] science and you learn about the history of kind of why we made those

[00:12:07] guidelines,

[00:12:08] it all starts to make a little bit more sense.

[00:12:10] And historically,

[00:12:11] I feel like from the outside,

[00:12:13] when people hear someone like you or someone start to talk about

[00:12:18] these financial gains and corporate America,

[00:12:22] like people start to try and claim,

[00:12:25] oh,

[00:12:25] they're just conspiratorial about like why these corporations have done the

[00:12:30] same thing.

[00:12:30] But I mean,

[00:12:31] I'm not someone who studies nutrition on a regular basis,

[00:12:34] but I can see the conflicts of interest in how the food pyramid was

[00:12:39] created.

[00:12:39] The lobbyists and the people who were on the boards that created that and the

[00:12:44] gain that they had from,

[00:12:45] you know,

[00:12:46] different corporations that were heavy in the grain industry.

[00:12:51] And so to me,

[00:12:53] it really makes sense that a lot of how research was done and how these

[00:12:58] guidelines are created is swayed by corporate America.

[00:13:02] And I don't know,

[00:13:04] to me,

[00:13:04] it's not as much conspiratorial as it is just how this corporate world of

[00:13:11] America was created.

[00:13:12] Right.

[00:13:13] And I mean,

[00:13:14] you mentioned conspiracy and people might think it might be a conspiracy,

[00:13:17] but when you have concrete data and history to back this up in the 1980s,

[00:13:22] like I was mentioning,

[00:13:22] when the dietary guidelines came out,

[00:13:25] this is at the same time that big tobacco bought big food companies like

[00:13:28] Kraft,

[00:13:29] Nabisco,

[00:13:30] Heinz,

[00:13:30] General Mills.

[00:13:31] And because at this point,

[00:13:32] 1980s,

[00:13:33] you know,

[00:13:34] smoking has become widely known as a carcinogen.

[00:13:37] It's contributing to lung cancer.

[00:13:38] So,

[00:13:39] uh,

[00:13:40] the tobacco manufacturers,

[00:13:41] Philip Morris,

[00:13:42] RJ Reynolds,

[00:13:43] the two biggest tobacco manufacturers in the world at that time,

[00:13:46] bought big food companies.

[00:13:48] And within 10 to 20 years after that,

[00:13:51] that they bought those companies,

[00:13:52] they became increasingly more addictive.

[00:13:54] These ultra processed foods that we're talking about.

[00:13:56] And this is published in a prestigious medical journal just this year that found that when these

[00:14:02] companies bought big food companies,

[00:14:04] they became increasingly more addictive.

[00:14:06] And so that's the problem with a lot of ultra processed foods is that they hijack your brain.

[00:14:10] They're hyper palatable.

[00:14:12] You easily overeat these because they don't contain virtually any nutrition,

[00:14:16] micronutrients.

[00:14:17] They contain calories.

[00:14:18] They contain macronutrients like carbs,

[00:14:20] fats,

[00:14:20] and proteins,

[00:14:20] but you're going to be left starving at the end of the day because you didn't get any

[00:14:24] vitamins or minerals in your diet that whole foods have,

[00:14:27] whether that's plants or animal foods.

[00:14:29] So what about the argument of,

[00:14:32] well,

[00:14:32] at least people are getting calories.

[00:14:34] Like if people can't afford to go out and,

[00:14:38] and,

[00:14:39] you know,

[00:14:39] eat a better quality diet,

[00:14:40] or they don't have the education,

[00:14:42] they don't know they didn't grow up in an area that has well sourced food.

[00:14:47] And so all they know is going to their grocery store and picking up whatever they can for

[00:14:50] their family.

[00:14:51] How do we start changing the lives and,

[00:14:53] and,

[00:14:53] and health?

[00:14:54] Of people who just don't know different or don't have the means to afford different.

[00:14:58] Yeah.

[00:14:58] That's such an important question because,

[00:15:00] uh,

[00:15:01] what people don't,

[00:15:02] I mean,

[00:15:02] people just don't know sometimes,

[00:15:04] you know,

[00:15:04] they,

[00:15:04] they don't know what to look for.

[00:15:05] They don't know how to read a nutrition label.

[00:15:08] We grew up in this environment and we're all just kind of born into this,

[00:15:11] this new world,

[00:15:12] this,

[00:15:13] if you will,

[00:15:13] this new modern day environment where we don't have a blueprint for what our ancestors

[00:15:18] had.

[00:15:18] You know,

[00:15:19] when you're born into an environment where all you have are whole foods around you,

[00:15:23] it's kind of built in nature has that structure built in.

[00:15:27] We're just thrown into this world.

[00:15:28] We turn 18,

[00:15:30] 20,

[00:15:30] and we go to the grocery stores and start eating for ourselves.

[00:15:33] And we maybe get fooled by certain food labels.

[00:15:36] And just for example,

[00:15:37] mentioning,

[00:15:38] um,

[00:15:39] about the cholesterol thing that I talked about,

[00:15:41] it was actually found in 2015 that by the dietary guidelines that I just mentioned,

[00:15:46] they lifted any stance on dietary cholesterol restriction.

[00:15:49] They said in their report that dietary cholesterol is no longer a nutrient of concern for overconsumption,

[00:15:56] which means that you can eat as much dietary cholesterol as you want.

[00:15:59] It's not going to impact your blood cholesterol levels.

[00:16:02] But if you go to the grocery store,

[00:16:04] you will still see on a nutrition label,

[00:16:06] cholesterol free or low cholesterol.

[00:16:08] That's regulated by the FDA.

[00:16:10] And they still allow that,

[00:16:12] which gives us as the consumers,

[00:16:13] the impression that cholesterol is still bad to eat.

[00:16:16] And so how do you navigate this?

[00:16:18] Well,

[00:16:18] just a simple way is just shopping the perimeter of the grocery store.

[00:16:22] It's not a perfect solution,

[00:16:23] but if you shop the perimeter of the grocery store,

[00:16:26] you're really going to be left with meats,

[00:16:28] vegetables,

[00:16:30] dairy.

[00:16:30] And we can talk about why pasteurized dairy is a problem,

[00:16:33] but,

[00:16:33] uh,

[00:16:33] that's the easiest way to avoid a lot of the ultra processed foods that are in the center

[00:16:37] aisles of the grocery store.

[00:16:38] So I think that when,

[00:16:40] you know,

[00:16:40] we bring up ancestral living,

[00:16:43] something a lot of people will think of is organ meats.

[00:16:46] And I know,

[00:16:46] you know,

[00:16:47] you work for ancestral supplements,

[00:16:49] um,

[00:16:50] and a lot of the supplements they have into,

[00:16:53] you know,

[00:16:53] entail organs and,

[00:16:54] and,

[00:16:56] you know,

[00:16:56] the consumption of organs.

[00:16:57] So can you talk a little bit about why eating kind of this head to tail style or,

[00:17:02] you know,

[00:17:03] eating organs specifically can be such a great supplement to the foods that we eat?

[00:17:08] Yeah.

[00:17:08] I guess we'll start there.

[00:17:09] Yeah.

[00:17:09] Yeah.

[00:17:10] I mean,

[00:17:10] I get it though.

[00:17:11] This conversation can sound a little gross.

[00:17:13] I mean,

[00:17:14] eating organs like liver or heart.

[00:17:17] I didn't grow up like this.

[00:17:18] I didn't do this until 2017,

[00:17:21] 2016,

[00:17:21] 2017.

[00:17:22] Uh,

[00:17:22] that's when I started eating organs,

[00:17:25] uh,

[00:17:25] fresh organs.

[00:17:26] Uh,

[00:17:26] but now I usually do desiccated,

[00:17:29] which is freeze dried serves all the nutrients like we sell at ancestral supplements.

[00:17:33] Um,

[00:17:34] but if you look back at cultures throughout time and even just modern day cultures,

[00:17:39] um,

[00:17:40] outside of kind of Western style living,

[00:17:42] there's always going to be an organ based dish and virtually every culture that you look

[00:17:47] at organs were included.

[00:17:48] And it sounds gross now because we've lost the,

[00:17:51] the,

[00:17:51] the palate for it.

[00:17:52] We didn't grow up with these foods,

[00:17:53] so they taste very rich.

[00:17:55] They're,

[00:17:55] they're,

[00:17:56] that's full of nutrients,

[00:17:57] but when you can start including these in your diet and you don't have to just start

[00:18:01] eating them,

[00:18:02] that's why we recommend,

[00:18:02] you know,

[00:18:03] doing desiccated and try and bridge that gap for people.

[00:18:06] But these are some of the most nutrient dense foods on the planet.

[00:18:09] They contain a wide array of nutrients that we're really not getting in our Western diet,

[00:18:14] especially not with ultra processed foods,

[00:18:16] but even a lot of plant foods won't contain some of the nutrients found in beef liver.

[00:18:20] For instance,

[00:18:20] beef liver is nature's multivitamin.

[00:18:22] It contains a vitamin A in the most bioavailable form of retinol.

[00:18:27] It contains choline,

[00:18:28] which is super important for brain health and pregnancy and fertility.

[00:18:31] Uh,

[00:18:32] the list goes on and on virtually every micronutrient that you can really think of even

[00:18:36] vitamin C.

[00:18:37] So,

[00:18:37] uh,

[00:18:38] these are just have been included in humans diets for a long time.

[00:18:42] And only recently in human history,

[00:18:44] have we,

[00:18:44] uh,

[00:18:45] removed these from the human diet and started valuing more of the tender cuts,

[00:18:49] like the fillets and the ribeyes a little bit more,

[00:18:52] and they don't contain the same nutrients that organs might.

[00:18:55] And each organ contains a little bit of different nutrition,

[00:18:57] uh,

[00:18:58] depending on,

[00:18:59] you know,

[00:18:59] what organ it is,

[00:19:00] but there's some of the most nutrient dense foods in the world.

[00:19:03] Do we have like kind of a guide of what you recommend?

[00:19:07] Like how often are we supposed to be consuming some of this?

[00:19:10] Cause I know sometimes people get afraid,

[00:19:13] especially during pregnancy of like,

[00:19:14] Oh,

[00:19:14] am I getting too much vitamin A if I do beef liver?

[00:19:17] And is that going to be detrimental?

[00:19:18] So how do we know how often we should be taking this?

[00:19:22] Is this like,

[00:19:23] Oh,

[00:19:23] I should really do studies on my own body and get some lab work done to really

[00:19:27] know,

[00:19:27] or do you kind of have a guideline of what you recommend for what people can

[00:19:31] start adding in?

[00:19:32] Yeah.

[00:19:32] Yeah.

[00:19:33] I definitely recommend doing lab work,

[00:19:35] blood work and working with your doctor.

[00:19:36] If,

[00:19:36] if this is,

[00:19:37] you know,

[00:19:38] uh,

[00:19:38] if you're trying to become pregnant or just worry about anything like that.

[00:19:42] Um,

[00:19:42] but again,

[00:19:43] these are just whole foods and a lot of people might get afraid about the

[00:19:46] vitamin A,

[00:19:47] like you mentioned for,

[00:19:48] from beef liver,

[00:19:49] but,

[00:19:50] uh,

[00:19:50] because we hear it's toxic,

[00:19:51] right?

[00:19:51] Uh,

[00:19:52] fat soluble vitamins like vitamins A,

[00:19:54] D,

[00:19:54] E,

[00:19:55] and K are fat soluble vitamins,

[00:19:56] meaning they get stored in the body so they can become toxic over time.

[00:20:00] Whereas B vitamins and vitamin C are water soluble.

[00:20:03] So we eliminate those fairly quickly.

[00:20:05] Um,

[00:20:06] but all the studies that have suggested that vitamin A is toxic have come from

[00:20:11] synthetic vitamin A or from surprisingly polar bear liver,

[00:20:16] which,

[00:20:16] um,

[00:20:16] this was done in the 1920s or 1950s.

[00:20:20] Um,

[00:20:21] Arctic explorers actually died from eating polar bear livers because of how high

[00:20:25] the vitamin A content is in polar bear liver.

[00:20:28] It's like 10 to 50 times higher than a cow's liver.

[00:20:31] That's because polar bears are carnivores.

[00:20:34] They eat other animals,

[00:20:36] whereas cows,

[00:20:37] they eat grass,

[00:20:38] they eat plants.

[00:20:39] So their vitamin A content isn't,

[00:20:41] as high.

[00:20:42] So if you're worried about getting vitamin A toxicity from eating cow liver or

[00:20:47] another herbivore's liver,

[00:20:48] it's not going to happen.

[00:20:49] There's a study that found that you would need to eat,

[00:20:52] uh,

[00:20:52] I believe it's like a hundred thousand.

[00:20:54] I use a vitamin A every day for six months for it to become acutely toxic.

[00:21:00] Uh,

[00:21:00] so unless you're really overdoing synthetic vitamin A and supplement form or

[00:21:04] eating a polar bear liver,

[00:21:05] which nobody's going to do that,

[00:21:06] then you don't have to worry about vitamin A being toxic from,

[00:21:09] from a cow liver.

[00:21:10] And it's one of the most important nutrients,

[00:21:12] uh,

[00:21:12] for fertility,

[00:21:14] for just general health.

[00:21:16] I mean,

[00:21:16] we're talking about,

[00:21:16] uh,

[00:21:17] brain development,

[00:21:18] skin health,

[00:21:18] vision,

[00:21:19] uh,

[00:21:19] immune system.

[00:21:20] It's the list goes on and on.

[00:21:22] And the problem is most people aren't getting that vitamin in,

[00:21:25] uh,

[00:21:25] regular amounts because they're eating,

[00:21:27] maybe they're thinking of carrots and this comes in the form of beta

[00:21:30] carotene,

[00:21:31] which is the plant form that actually needs to get converted to the retinol

[00:21:35] form and which you're going to find in animal foods.

[00:21:38] And maybe about 80% of that conversion is lost during that plant to,

[00:21:42] to animal conversion.

[00:21:44] So,

[00:21:44] uh,

[00:21:45] that's why we recommend eating nose to tail liver,

[00:21:48] but,

[00:21:48] but yeah,

[00:21:49] I mean,

[00:21:49] you don't have to worry about the toxicity of that.

[00:21:51] So I would recommend doing maybe just two to three ounces a week,

[00:21:55] even,

[00:21:56] which is just a small amount.

[00:21:57] I mean,

[00:21:57] a quarter size amount,

[00:21:59] two to three times a week,

[00:22:00] or,

[00:22:01] you know,

[00:22:01] we,

[00:22:01] we have six capsules as our serving size.

[00:22:04] Even that a few times a week is a great starting point.

[00:22:07] Yeah.

[00:22:07] So I'm going to bridge this into something that I think is an even more

[00:22:14] controversial topic that flies around the social medias,

[00:22:17] which is raw eating.

[00:22:18] And I know that you talk a bit about this both in the food form,

[00:22:22] whether it's just consuming raw liver straight up,

[00:22:24] or,

[00:22:25] um,

[00:22:26] you kind of made mention to it.

[00:22:27] And when you said shopping the grocery store,

[00:22:29] like raw versus pasteurized dairy products,

[00:22:32] I want to dice this apart a little bit,

[00:22:35] you know,

[00:22:35] where,

[00:22:36] where do you find eating raw,

[00:22:39] whether it's dairy products or animal products,

[00:22:42] um,

[00:22:42] the organ meats or,

[00:22:44] you know,

[00:22:45] regular cuts of beef,

[00:22:46] um,

[00:22:47] is more beneficial.

[00:22:48] And why do you think it has become such a topic of controversy?

[00:22:52] Yeah,

[00:22:53] that's a super great question.

[00:22:54] And when you look at cultures throughout time,

[00:22:56] cultures have always consumed portions of their food cooked and portions of

[00:23:00] their food raw.

[00:23:01] Uh,

[00:23:01] it's just what humans have done for a very long time.

[00:23:04] And in today's society,

[00:23:06] foodborne illnesses are very real,

[00:23:08] mostly because of us trying to scale our food supply.

[00:23:11] When you try and scale to the masses and you have,

[00:23:14] uh,

[00:23:15] you know,

[00:23:15] a CAFO raised cows and,

[00:23:17] and feedlot animals,

[00:23:19] your quality control goes way down and it's going to spread a lot of

[00:23:23] foodborne illnesses,

[00:23:24] E.

[00:23:24] Coli,

[00:23:25] salmonella and chicken.

[00:23:26] Uh,

[00:23:27] so that has become very problematic.

[00:23:29] If you are sourcing your food,

[00:23:31] I can't stress this enough,

[00:23:32] know where your food is coming from.

[00:23:34] And if you're sourcing from reputable family run farms,

[00:23:37] where you can actually see how the animals are being raised and you know

[00:23:40] what's going on,

[00:23:41] uh,

[00:23:41] the risk of foodborne illness drops very,

[00:23:44] very low.

[00:23:44] And I don't want to say for sure.

[00:23:46] I mean,

[00:23:46] there's a risk of any,

[00:23:48] uh,

[00:23:49] food of foodborne illness,

[00:23:51] uh,

[00:23:52] vegetables,

[00:23:52] plants,

[00:23:53] leafy greens have the highest amount of foodborne illness chicken.

[00:23:56] Uh,

[00:23:56] but dairy is on the lower end of that.

[00:23:59] Eggs are even lower than that.

[00:24:00] So,

[00:24:01] uh,

[00:24:01] when we're talking about eating cooked and raw,

[00:24:03] I'm a fan of doing a little bit of both.

[00:24:05] I don't like to just straight up eat a raw steak.

[00:24:07] I mean,

[00:24:07] that's not delicious.

[00:24:08] Like we've cooked our foods for reason,

[00:24:10] you know,

[00:24:10] reasons,

[00:24:11] but doing a little bit of sushi,

[00:24:13] you know,

[00:24:13] like that's,

[00:24:14] I mean,

[00:24:14] that's enjoyable.

[00:24:15] Um,

[00:24:16] I like to do,

[00:24:17] uh,

[00:24:17] I call them dippy eggs.

[00:24:18] Uh,

[00:24:19] when you have over easy eggs,

[00:24:21] leaving that egg yolk a little bit raw and you get more of the nutrients in that.

[00:24:25] You don't cause the cholesterol and the egg yolk to oxidize.

[00:24:28] That's raw,

[00:24:29] right?

[00:24:29] Raw milk is when you don't pasteurize the milk.

[00:24:33] And this is a widely,

[00:24:34] this is a hotly debated topic,

[00:24:36] of course,

[00:24:36] but we started pasteurizing milk,

[00:24:39] not because it was the milk itself was problematic,

[00:24:41] but because of how humans started raising the cows.

[00:24:44] And the filthy conditions that the cows were raised in,

[00:24:47] in the,

[00:24:48] the mid to late 1800s,

[00:24:50] you might've heard of swill dairies,

[00:24:52] but,

[00:24:53] uh,

[00:24:53] we had all this alcohol.

[00:24:55] It was called grain mash.

[00:24:56] And it was a by-product of alcohol production at that time.

[00:25:00] And they started feeding it to the cows.

[00:25:03] So right next to the distilleries of the alcohol distilleries,

[00:25:06] they started raising these cows in big city populations.

[00:25:09] And it was filthy,

[00:25:11] terrible living conditions.

[00:25:11] The cows started,

[00:25:13] uh,

[00:25:13] getting disease.

[00:25:14] They were putting out diseased milk and it killed a lot of people.

[00:25:17] And it kind of tainted this view of raw milk altogether.

[00:25:20] I mean,

[00:25:21] we've been consuming dairy for our,

[00:25:23] you know,

[00:25:24] tens of thousands of years.

[00:25:25] It's believed,

[00:25:26] uh,

[00:25:26] by anthropologists.

[00:25:27] We wouldn't have passed raw dairy down that long if it was that inherently

[00:25:31] problematic for,

[00:25:32] for humans.

[00:25:33] So we found a way to,

[00:25:35] um,

[00:25:36] kind of taint that name of,

[00:25:37] of milk altogether.

[00:25:38] But,

[00:25:39] uh,

[00:25:40] yeah,

[00:25:40] raw milk is a hotly debated topic,

[00:25:42] but,

[00:25:42] uh,

[00:25:42] I've been doing raw milk 10 years now and I've never had an issue with it.

[00:25:46] It's just knowing your source and where it comes from.

[00:25:48] They do sell it at the grocery store now.

[00:25:51] It's that because you,

[00:25:53] again,

[00:25:53] like you said,

[00:25:54] you can't really know exactly where that source is.

[00:25:57] You can say,

[00:25:58] Oh,

[00:25:58] this might be a reputable company,

[00:26:00] but it is at a grocery store.

[00:26:02] Would you still recommend someone buying raw milk from a grocery store?

[00:26:05] Or would you really recommend it coming more so from a local farm that they know?

[00:26:10] Yeah.

[00:26:10] I mean,

[00:26:10] I,

[00:26:10] I know there's some at grocery stores that I've gone to.

[00:26:13] And if it's from a,

[00:26:14] a reputable company that has a good track record,

[00:26:18] then,

[00:26:18] then yeah.

[00:26:19] Um,

[00:26:19] there are options that pasteurized dairy at grocery stores,

[00:26:23] which it's a lower temp pasteurized.

[00:26:25] It's heated over,

[00:26:26] I think a half hour and it's low,

[00:26:29] uh,

[00:26:29] lightly temp pasteurized.

[00:26:30] That's still,

[00:26:31] people tolerate that a little better.

[00:26:33] And if you're just nervous about jumping into full raw dairy,

[00:26:36] that could be a great option,

[00:26:37] but I would definitely recommend just sourcing as local as you can with,

[00:26:41] with anything really.

[00:26:42] I mean,

[00:26:42] that's going to get you closer to connected to your food.

[00:26:45] You're going to understand where that came from and you're going to be

[00:26:47] supporting your local community.

[00:26:49] So you say,

[00:26:50] you know,

[00:26:50] you kind of talk about pasteurization,

[00:26:52] but why does that kind of affect us?

[00:26:56] And,

[00:26:56] and why would that make it something someone can't tolerate?

[00:27:01] Even if it's,

[00:27:01] if it's just the heating up of something,

[00:27:04] right?

[00:27:04] We're just heating something up.

[00:27:05] So why does that suddenly become something that we're now villainizing rather

[00:27:09] than just,

[00:27:10] you know,

[00:27:11] having pasteurized milk?

[00:27:12] So what is really the difference and what is,

[00:27:14] what is that doing to our bodies?

[00:27:15] Right?

[00:27:16] Yeah.

[00:27:16] I get this all the time.

[00:27:17] People will say,

[00:27:18] you know,

[00:27:18] just consume the pasteurized milk.

[00:27:20] You know,

[00:27:20] it's,

[00:27:20] it's,

[00:27:20] it's safer.

[00:27:22] It's,

[00:27:22] it's not lowering the nutrient content.

[00:27:24] It's safer for you.

[00:27:25] Uh,

[00:27:26] the risk is greater with raw milk than it is with pasteurized.

[00:27:28] I grew up on pasteurized milk,

[00:27:30] my entire teenage years,

[00:27:32] childhood,

[00:27:32] teenage years.

[00:27:33] And I suffered from gas,

[00:27:34] bloating,

[00:27:35] acne,

[00:27:35] and all the things that typically happen when you're lactose intolerance,

[00:27:39] which we'll talk about.

[00:27:40] Uh,

[00:27:40] and I just didn't do well with it.

[00:27:42] So when I gave,

[00:27:43] I gave up all dairy altogether for about six to seven years until my early twenties.

[00:27:48] And then I started reintroducing raw goats,

[00:27:51] dairy,

[00:27:52] and then raw cow dairy.

[00:27:53] And I noticed I was fine.

[00:27:54] And now I do one to two gallons of raw milk a week.

[00:27:57] And I have for 10 years now,

[00:27:59] and I've done great with it.

[00:28:00] That's my experience.

[00:28:01] So when you heat something up,

[00:28:03] um,

[00:28:04] meats or,

[00:28:04] or dairy,

[00:28:06] um,

[00:28:06] you lose a lot of the enzymes and I'm not talking about micronutrients.

[00:28:11] I'm talking about enzymes.

[00:28:12] We make our own enzymes in our body that help to digest nutrients,

[00:28:16] to assimilate these nutrients,

[00:28:17] but foods contain enzymes too.

[00:28:19] And this helps to be able to break down the nutrients in that food.

[00:28:23] So for,

[00:28:23] for milk,

[00:28:24] for instance,

[00:28:25] um,

[00:28:26] most people are lactose intolerant.

[00:28:28] We've heard that probably that maybe 60 to 70% of the world's population is lactose intolerant.

[00:28:33] And this is because we are born with the lactase enzyme that breaks down lactose.

[00:28:39] But after infancy,

[00:28:40] maybe three or four years old,

[00:28:41] we lose that,

[00:28:42] that enzyme.

[00:28:43] Well,

[00:28:44] raw milk,

[00:28:45] when it hasn't been pasteurized,

[00:28:46] contains,

[00:28:47] uh,

[00:28:48] bacteria,

[00:28:49] healthy probiotics that actually help to make lactase in our guts,

[00:28:54] which is why we're able to digest raw milk.

[00:28:56] But when you heat dairy,

[00:28:58] raw milk up to about 145,

[00:29:00] 150 degrees for,

[00:29:02] um,

[00:29:02] even a few minutes,

[00:29:04] that enzyme gets destroyed.

[00:29:05] And there's a lot of other enzymes in there that are degraded or destroyed altogether when you pasteurize or ultra pasteurize dairy.

[00:29:12] So people consume this and they're not able to tolerate it.

[00:29:15] But if you try consuming raw milk,

[00:29:17] you'll be able to better tolerate it maybe.

[00:29:19] Um,

[00:29:20] but yeah,

[00:29:21] that's just one reasoning why switching to how,

[00:29:24] how food preparation matters.

[00:29:26] Um,

[00:29:27] but,

[00:29:28] but yeah,

[00:29:28] I mean,

[00:29:28] that's,

[00:29:29] I could talk about raw milk for a while.

[00:29:31] And do you know,

[00:29:32] cause again,

[00:29:33] I feel like food and nutrition research move slowly,

[00:29:38] right?

[00:29:38] Which I'm sure you're aware.

[00:29:40] And the stuff that you're talking about,

[00:29:42] it's hard to find research on in like,

[00:29:46] you know,

[00:29:46] randomized controlled trials or different meta analyses,

[00:29:48] the things that are considered,

[00:29:49] you know,

[00:29:49] at the higher levels of research that have looked into these things.

[00:29:52] Like,

[00:29:53] is there work being done to look at populations who have consumed high quality,

[00:30:00] you know,

[00:30:01] raw unpasteurized dairy versus populations consuming pasteurized dairy?

[00:30:06] Yeah.

[00:30:07] Yeah.

[00:30:07] And that's,

[00:30:07] I mean,

[00:30:08] that's the problem today is that a lot of the research is being funded.

[00:30:11] Like who's funding the research.

[00:30:13] And a lot of the times it's coming from big food,

[00:30:15] big pharma or corporations that maybe have an interest that they want to see a

[00:30:20] certain outcome.

[00:30:20] So a lot of the times when you're trying to look at the,

[00:30:22] look at the data,

[00:30:23] it's,

[00:30:23] it's not always there.

[00:30:25] Cause who's funding data for,

[00:30:27] for raw milk,

[00:30:28] you know,

[00:30:28] it's,

[00:30:29] you know,

[00:30:30] so when we look at the past,

[00:30:32] we do see cultures.

[00:30:33] I mean,

[00:30:33] you can look at the work of Dr.

[00:30:35] Weston a price.

[00:30:36] He traveled the globe back in maybe the 1920s,

[00:30:39] 1930s.

[00:30:39] And he studied,

[00:30:40] I believe it was 11 different tribes all across the globe.

[00:30:44] And he found that they were living a certain way.

[00:30:46] And they were the cultures that stuck to their traditional diets of,

[00:30:50] of animal foods,

[00:30:53] traditional plant preparation,

[00:30:55] like fermented foods and raw dairy.

[00:30:58] They had perfectly aligned teeth,

[00:31:00] very minimal rates of tooth decay.

[00:31:01] They were physically fit,

[00:31:03] healthy,

[00:31:04] minimal chronic disease.

[00:31:05] But when they switched to doing more modern day America type stuff,

[00:31:08] eating ultra processed foods and high amounts of sugar and even seed oils,

[00:31:13] uh,

[00:31:14] yeah,

[00:31:14] they started developing tooth decay.

[00:31:16] Their jaws got a little smaller.

[00:31:17] They started developing chronic disease and becoming overweight.

[00:31:21] Uh,

[00:31:21] so yeah,

[00:31:21] these,

[00:31:22] we have these reports throughout time.

[00:31:24] And even today you can go look at the Maasai or the Hadza traditional culture tribes,

[00:31:29] and they're living a certain way,

[00:31:31] eating a certain diet,

[00:31:32] and they're not experiencing a lot of the chronic disease that,

[00:31:34] that we are here in America where we're overly sedentary.

[00:31:38] We're,

[00:31:38] we're sitting at desk jobs.

[00:31:39] We're highly stressed.

[00:31:40] Uh,

[00:31:41] we're doing a lot of the things wrong and backwards than,

[00:31:44] than we should be,

[00:31:45] but it's,

[00:31:45] it's easy to,

[00:31:46] it's,

[00:31:47] it's simple.

[00:31:47] I shouldn't say it's easy.

[00:31:48] It's simple when you kind of understand the right framework about how to get back to

[00:31:52] healthy living.

[00:31:53] And I think that's,

[00:31:54] what's hard.

[00:31:54] Like you see on social media,

[00:31:56] you know,

[00:31:56] you,

[00:31:57] where it looks more like just the health junkie that's promoting this more raw way of eating

[00:32:05] or lifestyle.

[00:32:05] And then you have the RD or the person who has studied nutrition,

[00:32:10] who's saying,

[00:32:10] well,

[00:32:11] the research isn't saying that.

[00:32:12] And the research is showing that that can cause,

[00:32:15] you know,

[00:32:15] whatever diseases.

[00:32:16] So it's hard to like navigate this world of,

[00:32:20] well,

[00:32:20] this is what,

[00:32:21] you know,

[00:32:22] so many people are reporting feels great within the body,

[00:32:25] whether it is taking out seed oils and eating raw,

[00:32:29] drinking raw milk or get consuming organs or whatever it may be.

[00:32:34] Yet then on the flip side,

[00:32:35] you have these other people who are,

[00:32:37] who we respect as clinicians,

[00:32:39] right?

[00:32:39] Because they've gone through and they've done their,

[00:32:41] their research and,

[00:32:42] and everything who are saying,

[00:32:44] yeah,

[00:32:45] but the research is saying this.

[00:32:46] So it's hard to navigate this world of like,

[00:32:49] what do we know to be true?

[00:32:51] And what should I be putting in my body?

[00:32:53] Right.

[00:32:53] And I'm a,

[00:32:54] I've always said,

[00:32:55] I'm a very science-based person.

[00:32:56] I love to look at the data.

[00:32:58] I love to look at the research.

[00:32:59] I'm a nerd like that.

[00:33:01] I'm a,

[00:33:02] it's important to be science-based,

[00:33:03] but I've always said that you never want to be so science bound that you lose common sense or that historical perspective of kind of how we've always done things.

[00:33:12] Because how humans have done things for a long time can give us a good picture of what it means to be,

[00:33:16] be a healthy human today.

[00:33:18] And so when I see some data that might compete with what humans have been doing the longest,

[00:33:23] I'm going to look open-mindedly at it.

[00:33:25] I'm going to look at it and just kind of see,

[00:33:27] you know,

[00:33:27] who is a funded by what's going on here.

[00:33:30] And a lot of the times you realize maybe the designs weren't the best,

[00:33:33] or it was funded by somebody that had a vested interest in that.

[00:33:37] But really I,

[00:33:38] I would encourage everybody to approach with science,

[00:33:41] but also just keep an open mind,

[00:33:42] open perspective about whatever you're hearing.

[00:33:44] Because in today's world,

[00:33:46] I mean,

[00:33:46] we can have so much information that's coming at us from every which direction.

[00:33:51] You can find something that's going to compete with anything.

[00:33:55] And it's,

[00:33:56] that's why it's important to just stay open-minded,

[00:33:58] try what works for you.

[00:33:59] What works for me might not work for you guys,

[00:34:01] but it just really depends because we all have a different background.

[00:34:04] Yeah.

[00:34:05] I think it's,

[00:34:05] I mean,

[00:34:06] it's hard when we talk about research because like we've brought up a couple of times,

[00:34:10] like the history of how research has been done is kind of tainted.

[00:34:15] And when the foundation of research in the nutritional sciences,

[00:34:20] in the health and wellness sciences is tainted or is skewed because of corporate interest or

[00:34:27] because of poor methodology.

[00:34:28] And then we just continue to build on top of that.

[00:34:31] It's tough.

[00:34:32] And I don't think there are enough providers or enough people out there who dig into the stuff,

[00:34:37] like you said,

[00:34:37] who look all the way back to,

[00:34:39] was there any funding for this research?

[00:34:41] How did they,

[00:34:42] you know,

[00:34:43] form their exclusionary and inclusionary criteria in the methodology of this experiment?

[00:34:48] Were they looking at food diaries or journals or getting retroactive reports from people?

[00:34:52] Like no one looks into that stuff and it really affects the,

[00:34:56] you know,

[00:34:57] applicability of,

[00:34:59] you know,

[00:35:00] research outcomes.

[00:35:00] And I think that that's a real problem because all we generally see is the one sentence from the abstract

[00:35:05] or the title of the journal that people then start to screenshot and make Instagram reels on.

[00:35:11] Yeah.

[00:35:11] And that's,

[00:35:12] you know,

[00:35:13] that's unfortunate.

[00:35:14] It really is.

[00:35:15] And there's different types of study designs and talking about red meat and why that was demonized.

[00:35:20] A lot of this was done on observational data throughout the 1900s,

[00:35:23] early 2000s.

[00:35:24] And this can show an association and people will say that this causes this when it was based on an association-based study.

[00:35:31] Whereas like you need like high quality randomized controlled trials to show that this caused this.

[00:35:37] And you just can't do that in nutrition research a lot of the time with a large part of the population

[00:35:42] to show that red meat caused this because you can't control people's diets for that long,

[00:35:46] for more than a few months maybe.

[00:35:48] Even then it's tough to do.

[00:35:49] You have to be in a confined setting.

[00:35:51] So that's why I'm a fan of blending science,

[00:35:54] but also just looking at what humans have been doing for a long time.

[00:35:57] Well, and then that's where I want to touch on,

[00:35:59] you kind of brought up the subject of red meat and we definitely both obviously consume it.

[00:36:05] But there also is on the flip side, you know,

[00:36:08] oh, people who've healed their cancer from going completely vegan or,

[00:36:13] you know,

[00:36:14] or,

[00:36:15] you know,

[00:36:15] you hear these different studies and,

[00:36:17] and,

[00:36:18] or sorry,

[00:36:18] when you go to like blue zones and you think of the people and you've been told,

[00:36:23] oh,

[00:36:23] they don't eat meat or anything.

[00:36:24] So what is the,

[00:36:27] the real understanding there?

[00:36:29] Should we be eating meat?

[00:36:30] Should we not be eating meat?

[00:36:31] What is good for you?

[00:36:33] What is healthy?

[00:36:34] Yeah.

[00:36:35] Yeah.

[00:36:35] I mean,

[00:36:35] when you look at how cultures have been doing this before we started like shipping foods all over the globe,

[00:36:42] growing foods in one country and flying it to a different country,

[00:36:46] people ate what was local to them.

[00:36:48] We talked about that.

[00:36:48] And so that's going to be different depending on where you grew up.

[00:36:52] You know,

[00:36:52] if you were closer to the equator and you're in a culture there,

[00:36:56] you're probably going to be eating more,

[00:36:57] more plants.

[00:36:58] You're going to,

[00:36:58] you have a longer growing season.

[00:37:00] A lot of these blue zones are closer to the equator.

[00:37:03] So they're going to have longer growing seasons.

[00:37:04] Whereas cultures maybe in Canada or Alaska,

[00:37:08] the Arctic,

[00:37:08] or even just not that far away.

[00:37:10] I'm in Pennsylvania.

[00:37:11] I don't have as long of growing seasons here.

[00:37:13] So what am I going to eat locally?

[00:37:15] I could ferment some vegetables and that can last me a while,

[00:37:18] but really I need to find a way to get protein.

[00:37:20] And that's what our ancestors have been doing for a long time.

[00:37:23] And so when we look at,

[00:37:24] at meat,

[00:37:25] is it problematic?

[00:37:27] First of all,

[00:37:27] the blue zones do eat meat.

[00:37:29] I even had a conversation with Dan Buettner about this and he was saying that they do eat a good amount of meat.

[00:37:34] It's just the way that they eat that meat is different.

[00:37:36] It's not fried in seed oils.

[00:37:38] It's not breaded.

[00:37:39] It's,

[00:37:39] it's different.

[00:37:40] It's,

[00:37:40] it's fresh meat.

[00:37:42] Um,

[00:37:43] but,

[00:37:43] but yeah,

[00:37:43] I mean,

[00:37:44] when you look at these,

[00:37:44] even studies that show that meat is problematic,

[00:37:47] uh,

[00:37:48] it's really coming down to the association that in our culture today,

[00:37:52] we're eating that meat with fast food.

[00:37:55] It's coming from,

[00:37:56] you know,

[00:37:56] fried chicken.

[00:37:57] It's what we're eating that meat with.

[00:37:59] But if you eat a whole food diet,

[00:38:01] plants,

[00:38:02] animals,

[00:38:03] mostly unprocessed,

[00:38:04] you know,

[00:38:05] if you're doing that,

[00:38:06] it,

[00:38:07] meat just isn't in the data as a,

[00:38:09] as a problematic food.

[00:38:10] But,

[00:38:10] but by putting the blame on meat as the culprit behind disease,

[00:38:14] like saturated fat and cholesterol,

[00:38:17] you limit that.

[00:38:18] But inadvertently,

[00:38:18] you're also limiting all these other nutrients that we kind of just talked about that are important for fertility and health,

[00:38:24] like,

[00:38:24] choline,

[00:38:25] creatine,

[00:38:26] vitamin B12,

[00:38:28] zinc.

[00:38:28] These nutrients are found pretty much exclusively in animal foods,

[00:38:31] but we're barely meeting our needs for protein throughout the day because the protein recommendations are super low and people barely are meeting those needs.

[00:38:39] So,

[00:38:39] if you're putting the blame on saturated fat and cholesterol and you're limiting those foods just because of that,

[00:38:45] maybe we got it wrong.

[00:38:47] Maybe saturated fat and cholesterol aren't the problems.

[00:38:50] Maybe it's all these other ultra processed foods we're eating that meat.

[00:38:53] And you've brought up a couple times kind of like the association factor.

[00:38:58] You know,

[00:38:58] a lot of these studies have been done just based on observation and it's hard to separate out the variables.

[00:39:04] People who tend to eat diets that are very high in red meat are also tending to do a lot of the other things that have come along with the standard American diet,

[00:39:12] eating,

[00:39:12] you know,

[00:39:13] highly processed things,

[00:39:14] getting that meat from fast food restaurants,

[00:39:16] also eating diets that are very high in different,

[00:39:18] you know,

[00:39:19] sugars or easily palatable,

[00:39:22] you know,

[00:39:22] carbohydrates.

[00:39:24] And then the blue zones came up and this kind of dovetailed perfectly into something that I wanted to bring up,

[00:39:30] which you've mentioned a couple times already,

[00:39:33] like nutrition is only one part of it.

[00:39:35] Nutrition is only one part of this ancestral style of living.

[00:39:38] And I loved,

[00:39:38] I was taking a look at the ancestral supplements website before I came on here.

[00:39:43] I'm going to pull up there.

[00:39:45] There's the nine ancestral tenants.

[00:39:48] And to me,

[00:39:48] when I was looking through these,

[00:39:49] it kind of mimicked what Dan Buettner,

[00:39:52] who by the way is a Minnesotan.

[00:39:53] So shout out for Minnesota pride,

[00:39:56] found in the blue zones,

[00:39:58] the nine ancestral tenants are sleep,

[00:40:01] eat,

[00:40:01] move,

[00:40:02] shield,

[00:40:04] connect,

[00:40:05] cold,

[00:40:05] sun,

[00:40:07] struggle,

[00:40:07] and bond.

[00:40:08] And I love it.

[00:40:10] It explains a lot more on the ancestral site,

[00:40:13] but can you just talk a little bit about how,

[00:40:15] like,

[00:40:16] yeah,

[00:40:16] we've covered the eat.

[00:40:17] That was number two on the list,

[00:40:19] but how it's so important to,

[00:40:21] to be paying attention to,

[00:40:23] or at least have awareness of what you're doing in these nine different areas.

[00:40:27] Right.

[00:40:27] And so when you look at humans or just any living animal,

[00:40:31] I mean,

[00:40:32] we have a lot of deer in our property.

[00:40:33] When you look at animals that just live in nature and I say nature,

[00:40:36] because we've kind of only recently just started building like inside.

[00:40:40] Like,

[00:40:40] I think the word outside was just recently invented just like a hundred or 200 years

[00:40:44] ago.

[00:40:44] Like there was no inside outside.

[00:40:46] It was just,

[00:40:46] we lived in nature.

[00:40:47] Right.

[00:40:47] And so when you look at a healthy individual or healthy species that lives in

[00:40:52] nature,

[00:40:53] they're doing all these tenants naturally.

[00:40:55] They're sleeping a certain way.

[00:40:57] They're eating a certain diet.

[00:40:58] They're moving a certain way.

[00:41:00] You went through the,

[00:41:02] all the nine ancestral tenants,

[00:41:03] a shield,

[00:41:04] which is just protecting yourself from,

[00:41:06] from our toxins that we've put into our modern environment.

[00:41:10] Connect is connect to the earth.

[00:41:12] We've always been connected to the earth,

[00:41:14] our skin touching either grass or through,

[00:41:17] leather sold shoes is,

[00:41:18] is a,

[00:41:19] it's conductive.

[00:41:20] It's so these all have health benefits.

[00:41:24] Sun.

[00:41:24] It gives us life.

[00:41:26] I mean,

[00:41:26] it gives everything life,

[00:41:27] not too much sun,

[00:41:27] but enough sun,

[00:41:28] you know,

[00:41:29] go out there.

[00:41:30] Cold.

[00:41:30] We didn't always have a climate controlled environments.

[00:41:33] You know,

[00:41:33] the air conditioning or the heat in our homes,

[00:41:36] if it strays too far in a certain direction,

[00:41:39] you know,

[00:41:39] my wife,

[00:41:39] she likes to keep it at a certain temperature.

[00:41:41] I like to keep it at another temperature.

[00:41:43] And,

[00:41:43] you know,

[00:41:43] we bought heads sometimes on that,

[00:41:45] but we didn't always have climate controlled environments.

[00:41:48] We needed to sweat a little bit.

[00:41:49] We needed to get a little bit cold.

[00:41:51] Doesn't mean jumping in a cold plunge or going in a sauna.

[00:41:54] Just,

[00:41:54] you know,

[00:41:55] fluctuate that.

[00:41:55] That adds a little bit of stress to ourselves,

[00:41:58] which actually can help,

[00:41:59] you know,

[00:42:00] help our biology a little bit.

[00:42:01] So we have these nine ancestral tenants because if you can dial in each one of these

[00:42:06] and just get 1% better each day with your diet,

[00:42:09] with your sleep,

[00:42:10] with your movement,

[00:42:11] that can be phenomenal.

[00:42:13] I mean,

[00:42:14] I span that out over the course of a year,

[00:42:16] do that.

[00:42:17] And you could be an incredible,

[00:42:18] you can be an entirely different person.

[00:42:21] Now.

[00:42:22] Okay.

[00:42:22] Before we hop off,

[00:42:23] because we do,

[00:42:24] we do want to rap,

[00:42:26] but I just have to say,

[00:42:27] obviously I've been taking your,

[00:42:29] the ancestral supplements myself,

[00:42:31] pre conception into pregnancy.

[00:42:34] And I know I'll keep taking them postpartum as well.

[00:42:38] So why though,

[00:42:40] beyond beef liver,

[00:42:41] do you have supplements that support the entire body?

[00:42:45] So is it,

[00:42:47] for example,

[00:42:47] the women enhancement,

[00:42:49] right?

[00:42:49] It has a lot of like the uterus tissue and,

[00:42:52] and fallopian tubes.

[00:42:53] Fallopian tubes.

[00:42:54] So I've been eating testicles,

[00:42:57] desiccated testicles.

[00:42:59] Like,

[00:42:59] so why would it be crucial for us to be paying attention or potentially getting these other organs within our system as well?

[00:43:08] Yeah.

[00:43:08] So this is kind of off the ancient wisdom that like supports like,

[00:43:12] if you're,

[00:43:13] you're struggling with,

[00:43:14] you know,

[00:43:15] unhealthy liver,

[00:43:16] if you eat the liver of a healthy animal,

[00:43:18] that'll help your own liver.

[00:43:20] And we kind of have modern day science that affirms this because of certain nutrients that are specifically located in those,

[00:43:26] those nutrients,

[00:43:27] those,

[00:43:27] those organs.

[00:43:28] Cultures didn't have the science like we have them today.

[00:43:30] They were just doing it based off their intuition and what worked for them.

[00:43:34] Now we kind of have science that affirms,

[00:43:35] firms why.

[00:43:37] And so each organ is a little bit different.

[00:43:39] I mean,

[00:43:39] liver is what we would suggest for everybody starting out.

[00:43:42] It's like the powerhouse.

[00:43:43] Every culture rises,

[00:43:45] the liver above everything else because it's so nutrient dense.

[00:43:48] It gives you life.

[00:43:50] There's a lot of nutrients in there.

[00:43:52] Whereas maybe the thymus is really good for the immune system because that's where a lot of immune cells live.

[00:43:57] Uh,

[00:43:58] heart is rich in CoQ10.

[00:44:00] It's great for energy or anybody that might be taking a statin statins deplete your body of

[00:44:04] a CoQ10 and,

[00:44:06] uh,

[00:44:07] eating heart can really help with your energy levels.

[00:44:10] We always recommend fresh if you can,

[00:44:12] but if you can't do that or you can't find a good source,

[00:44:15] we wanted to be able to bridge that gap and provide third call,

[00:44:19] uh,

[00:44:19] third party lab tested,

[00:44:21] very high quality supplements that are,

[00:44:23] you know,

[00:44:24] shown to be beneficial.

[00:44:25] And a lot of people experience a lot of great benefits from them.

[00:44:27] No,

[00:44:28] I think that's fantastic.

[00:44:29] And I,

[00:44:30] like Jen said,

[00:44:31] I've been taking these both pre and now post conception of our kid.

[00:44:35] And I,

[00:44:37] I feel great about it because I am somebody who does like eating the food myself.

[00:44:42] Jen is not a fan of eating the organ meats,

[00:44:45] but you know,

[00:44:46] when we have it,

[00:44:47] I'll eat the bone marrow.

[00:44:48] I'll eat the liver.

[00:44:49] I'll have a kidney heart.

[00:44:51] You know,

[00:44:51] I've done it all.

[00:44:52] Um,

[00:44:53] my dog also loves it because I chopped some of the raw stuff up for her,

[00:44:56] for her,

[00:44:56] you know,

[00:44:57] bowl of food.

[00:44:58] But I think it's a great option.

[00:45:00] And I think that ancestral supplements has done an incredible job of being able to bridge that gap,

[00:45:05] making it affordable,

[00:45:07] um,

[00:45:07] in a way that when you get one of these bottles and sometimes,

[00:45:11] you know,

[00:45:11] like,

[00:45:11] like you mentioned it,

[00:45:13] a lot of the times it says,

[00:45:14] take six pills,

[00:45:15] you know,

[00:45:16] but you said doing that a couple of times a week is a great place to start.

[00:45:19] Sometimes I'll just have two pills a day.

[00:45:21] If I'm just going to be taking it consistently,

[00:45:23] just to make sure that I'm getting some of that in,

[00:45:25] especially because like you've mentioned that the best way to get it is from the food itself.

[00:45:30] And I love how even working for ancestral supplements,

[00:45:34] you say that if you can get it from the food,

[00:45:36] get it from the food.

[00:45:36] That's the way we're naturally supposed to be consuming it.

[00:45:38] But I think ancestral has done such an incredible job bridging that gap.

[00:45:42] Um,

[00:45:43] we do have a discount code for ancestral supplements for anybody that has,

[00:45:48] you know,

[00:45:48] is interested.

[00:45:49] You can check out the show notes for,

[00:45:50] for that.

[00:45:51] But Craig,

[00:45:52] I appreciate you coming on so much talking about some of these topics,

[00:45:55] which there's just a lot of information out there,

[00:45:58] disinformation,

[00:46:00] crazy,

[00:46:00] you know,

[00:46:01] claims.

[00:46:01] And I feel like the way that you talk it through,

[00:46:04] I respect because like you said,

[00:46:06] you know,

[00:46:07] the research as,

[00:46:08] as well as just about anyone out there and have dug into it.

[00:46:11] And then you're also bringing in this just natural way of thinking and looking at

[00:46:16] examples around the world of,

[00:46:17] of where it's working for people and how it is optimizing the health of people

[00:46:22] out there.

[00:46:23] So I appreciate you coming in,

[00:46:25] sharing your expertise,

[00:46:25] and I'm sure we'll be in touch soon.

[00:46:29] Thank you for listening to that episode.

[00:46:31] So fascinating with Craig.

[00:46:33] I hope that you took a lot of insight out of that,

[00:46:35] kept an open mind,

[00:46:36] and maybe you're ready to explore what it could feel like to get some extra

[00:46:40] supplements within your body.

[00:46:42] Now I have to say,

[00:46:43] and I even got a compliment from my hairdresser that I just went to where she

[00:46:47] was like,

[00:46:48] Oh my gosh,

[00:46:48] your hair is so thick,

[00:46:49] which my hair has never been thick.

[00:46:51] And she said,

[00:46:52] you know,

[00:46:52] it could be the supplements that you've been taking.

[00:46:55] I've noticed my nails have been so much thicker and I'm not taking collagen

[00:46:59] consistently right now.

[00:47:00] I'm taking all of these other things and it's really made such a big

[00:47:03] difference in my life.

[00:47:04] And I just feel like just trying it,

[00:47:07] especially the beef liver of what it can put in your body can be really

[00:47:10] impactful.

[00:47:11] So again,

[00:47:11] we're going to have it linked up below,

[00:47:13] but don't forget to use code doc Jen,

[00:47:16] and you'll check out all of the ancestral supplements.

[00:47:19] See what you think you can add in your life and what might be beneficial for

[00:47:23] your own body.

[00:47:24] Be back on another episode of the optimal body podcast.