377 | Strategies To Help Cope and Overcome Mental Health Battles with Karena Dawn

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Optimal Body Podcast. I'm Dr. Jen. And I'm Dr. Dom, and we are Doctors of

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Physical Therapy bringing you the body tips and physical therapy pearls of wisdom to help

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_01]: you begin to understand your body, relieve your pains and restrictions, and answer your

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: questions. Along with expert guests, our goal of the Optimal Body Podcast is really

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to help you discover what optimal means within your own body. Let's dive in!

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we hop into this interview, as the weather is changing and maybe you're noticing that you're

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[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really excited for you to hear this next conversation with Karina Don who is an

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: entrepreneur trainer, New York Times bestselling author and co-founder of Tone It Up. Maybe

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you've heard of it. It's the leading fitness and nutrition and lifestyle community inspiring

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: millions of women to live their healthiest and happiest lives. Her lifelong passion for

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: fitness, mindfulness and spiritual empowerment have made her the leader in the wellness space.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Karina is proud to be featured in Forbes for creating a fitness empire and in the

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: create and cultivate 100 list honoring women who are masters in their field.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: She has headlined the pop sugar playground festival and has been a keynote speaker

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: at the Power Up Women's Conference as a meditation coach for Chopra Global and a

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_02]: featured speaker and instructor for TED Women. South by South by the conference

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and other national platforms. Karina is the author of three books, the New York Times bestselling

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: book Tone It Up, 28 Days to Fit Fierce and Fabulous and a balanced and beautiful five-day

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: reset for your mind, body and spirit. And her debut, Memoir the Big Silence, a daughter's

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_02]: memoir of mental illness and healing released in 2022. And she just recently also released

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: the audio for this memoir as well. In her stirring memoir, Karina Don reveals that

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: what it was like growing up with a mother suffering from severe mental health issues

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and how Karina learned how to release herself from the guilt and shame and find her inner

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: strength to go from abandonment to forgiveness, from hopelessness to healing.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Meditation and movement transformed her life and helped her overcome a dark period of

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: depression and substance abuse. As a passionate advocate for mental wellness, Karina is proud

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: to serve on the board of advisors for NAMI which is National Alliance on Mental Illness

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and is the founder of the Mental Health Foundation, The Big Silence. She hosts a podcast of the

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: NAMI as well and Karina is dedicated to helping others feel confident, empowered and fulfilled.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Through The Big Silence Foundation, Karina cultivates mental health conversations and

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: offers resources and programs to de-stigmatize and change the culture around mental health.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I really think that you're going to enjoy this episode. She opens up a lot not only

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: about her own journey but what she's learned through it and what she hopes

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_02]: you can take away from it as well to help your own journey. So I hope you enjoy this one.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Karina, thank you so much for taking time to sit down and chat with us today. You have

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: quite the background from tone it up to The Big Silence and how what you're doing today

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and helping people. I mean, I think this is going to be a really important conversation

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm just so grateful to have you here. Thank you. Thank you for having me ready to dive in.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Taking a quick pause from this interview to talk about hydration, something that not all of us

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: focus on on a day-to-day basis but so many of us aren't getting properly hydrated. And I'm not

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: just talking about drinking enough water. I'm talking about really replenishing ourselves

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: with those electrolytes that we are naturally losing throughout the day. That's why Jen and

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I on a daily basis are drinking element. We absolutely love it because it tastes so great

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and keeps us coming back to the bottle but it has the sodium, potassium and magnesium that are

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely vital for so many of our body's processes. Making sure you have optimal levels

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: of electrolytes can make sure that you can avoid brain fog, fatigue, have proper bowel movements

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: that can even help us sleep and muscle cramps, energy and so much more. Again these three things

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: sodium, potassium and magnesium are so vital for so many of our body's physiologic processes.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you haven't yet go down to the link in the show notes and try out element,

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: you can just go to drinkelement.com backslash optimal. That's drinkelement spelled out lmnt.com

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: backslash optimal and you'll get a free sample pack with every order so you can make sure

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you get to try all the flavors and when you inevitably come back to get more

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: you'll know what flavor you want to get. Drinkelement.com backslash optimal, grab your element and make

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_01]: sure you start winning the hydration journey today. Yeah and like like Jen said you know many people

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: know you or have known you for tone it up and being in this fitness space and amazingly successful

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and helping so many people in their fitness journeys but now the creation of the big

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: silence and there had to have been you know a story or a need there and I'm wondering if

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: you'd be okay diving a little bit into your own story and what kind of pushed your passion

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_03]: towards creating the big silence. Yeah so the big silence is a movement in a foundation

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: about mental health and breaking that silence and having those in the stigma and also having

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: those hard conversations around mental health. The reason my why of this is I grew up with a

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: schizophrenic mother in the 90s where no one was talking about your mental health. She also

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_03]: suffered from depression and the short very short story that is in the 90s I was a teenager

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_03]: who felt very alone and silenced myself where I kept quiet because I didn't understand what

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: was going on at home. I had to go to a library and find a book on what is schizophrenia. I

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: can't even spell it and I had to educate myself on what this mental disease is and my mom was

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: in and out of the house several times missing persons and so that you know when you have

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_03]: someone in your family who suffers from a mental illness it also affects their family

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and friends but mostly direct family and so for myself it sent me into my own

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_03]: situational depression spiraling as a teenager drug misuse all the things

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to escape my own reality and also I happen to be a suicide survivor as a teenager

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and I feel like now I have this voice and you know to get myself out of this

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: depression of a decade I and I talk about all of it in my memoir but I had this moment

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and yes it was after a three-day bender I had moved to California and I was just coming out

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and really depressed and I was at this park and this little voice in my head was like Karina

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_03]: this is not what life is meant to be and it's like I gotta pull myself out of this

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_03]: or I'm gonna die this way and I just believed I was like this is not what your life is meant

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: to be you are not your mother and so I started taking care of myself I remembered when I was

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: happiest was a kid and I was running so I signed up for a triathlon and I traded Hollywood club

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_03]: nights for surfing at sunrise and started making all of these physical changes and things that were

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: healthy for me every self-help book going to therapy all of the things so that's the why

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_03]: of why I'm so passionate about mental health so that there's not a little Karina suffering

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: so as adults we can open up these conversations and realize we're not alone

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's kind of the why and I can go into you know fitness and it was my passion

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and so I started personal training, traveling the world doing sports and fitness modeling and

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: you know with working with Oakley and all those things and and then started toning up

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: you know Katrina at the gym everyone's like that story is not true not everyone

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: was like I'm like no we literally met at the gym and my name is Karina and her name is Katrina

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I know it sounds weird but yeah we both just had this passion for fitness and wanted to

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_03]: help women and make them realize that fitness can be fun and not scary and intimidating

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: and so that's where tone it up came from 15 years ago.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So wild you guys definitely did it I mean you were the pioneers in the fitness space and really

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: blowing it up the way that you did and showing the community aspect of fitness and while you

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_02]: were you know building this hugely successful brand and this incredible space for others

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: were you still battling stuff or did you feel like you had come to the other side and fitness

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: was really what had helped you? So personally with all of my bad habits I you know it takes

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_03]: it took a few years to really like come out of it work out of my own depression find joy

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_03]: find peace work through trauma and even still you know trauma is held in your body and

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: even though my mom passed away two years ago and I was her caretaker now I'm really healing and

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_03]: really working through all this trauma of 30 years but I so I was in a really good place

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and still am in a really good place and we started tone it up and the only thing

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: was I remember saying I can't let anyone know about my past because I was silencing myself

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_03]: because of my own stigma and it's like no like we're these fitness superstars you know yeah

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and this huge voice of fitness and wellness but this was 15 years ago whereas today we're breaking

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that stigma and I think there was always something inside me it's like I'm hiding I'm hiding this

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_03]: is who I am this is what I came from these were my struggles this is my mother who's out on the

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: road who knows where right now and so slowly I started talking about it more and once I started

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_03]: talking about it I think the first time I actually talked about it publicly was on our bravo show

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: did you ever see that no I didn't see that one don't go but I realized that once I said it out

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: loud it had it freed me more and I finally was like I'm not hiding because I was hiding this

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_03]: secret of my family since I was a little kid and so I just started talking about mental health more

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: working with Nami and getting certified with them to go speak in schools to children about

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_03]: mental health and just doing more work and volunteering my time because it just became

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: very passionate to me to help other people I mean and I'm sure that lifted like this last

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: little bit of weight once you were finally open about it like yes you had obviously done a ton of

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: work and worked through a lot of the issues or like more more so the end-term symptoms that

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: you were experiencing from all of this you know internal history that you had but what would

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you say to people who have that story themselves or feel like they're hiding something and don't want

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: to share it because they say oh my friends will think differently of me oh my family they're worried

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: about losing the people they're close to or impacting the relationships that they have with

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_03]: the people that they're close to right because if you haven't lived with a family member or yourself

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_03]: with a mental illness it's hard for someone to comprehend and one thing that I love about

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: the big silence for opening up stories and the emails and the messages and the dms of

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: people sharing their stories make oh my gosh me too I finally feel like I'm not alone

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's really important and one thing that so Bobby is my husband and he had never experienced

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_03]: mental illness before we get married we go on our honeymoon we come back mom appears at the front

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: door and wants to move in with us we it's a whole long story but he was like I don't understand

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: this and I had learned to normalize it so he wanted to go so nami national alliance of mental illness

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and anyone listening he wanted to go and educate himself so we did a 13 week course every Tuesday

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_03]: night for four hours and that goes through everything to learn about mental illness empathy

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_03]: the drug mixes like drugs and 51 50s and what each illness is and like this really helped him

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: to educate himself and understand me better and I think one of the others thing was too

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_03]: perhaps if someone doesn't want to share and they're mentally healthy like I'm mentally healthy

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and I had to teach myself and convince myself I am not my mother and mental illness

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_03]: skipped a generation between my sister and me and I'm so blessed for that so I have that

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_03]: capacity to be able to help others walk through that process and if you're listening just

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't open up the story I was afraid of judgment and sometimes there is judgment too because

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_03]: somebody may be like well then you've got it you've got it too and a mental illness is not the

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_03]: end all of a diagnosis you can live a happy life there may be there's always somebody that's

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_03]: going to say something but for you I think it's important to let it out talk about it you

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_03]: can go to it you can even go to a therapist you can go to support groups in your area

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you bring up a good point where when you do share yourself fully with somebody

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: they really start to show their true colors as to how that they're best going to support you

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and be there for you and if they're if you do get that judgment from certain people it just

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: lets you know that you maybe get to hold them in a little bit different space as your friend

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: or your family member if they're not fully going to receive who you are receive and be there

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: for who you are and the story that you've lived yeah exactly yeah because I've had some reactions of

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_03]: how could you like angry at me how could you not tell me and I'm like whoa I'm telling you yeah

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah I am and then some are like wow I'm here for you let me know if I can how I can support

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_03]: if anything and I think the most important thing says if someone doesn't understand mental

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_03]: illness it's okay to just be like just hold the space like you said just be there you don't have

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to give the answers you don't have just just be there and how would you say is best to support

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: someone who does go through depressive states at times and all of a sudden you don't hear from them

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: or you don't like you're trying to reach them you're trying to help and you're not

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: hearing from them so how can someone really best support someone when they're going through

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that depressive state and maybe locking themselves out from the world yeah and I'll speak from my own

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_03]: experience what I do with friends that have openly said I have depression and I'll know because

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_03]: they're constantly talking and doing this and then they're silent yeah thank god and so it's

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_03]: it's not for me I'm not calling be like why don't you call me back you know it's

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_03]: hi I'm just thinking of you I love you um you know I'm here whenever you want to chat and catch up

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_03]: you know and you and I would keep checking you know if it goes too long I might want to do a

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_03]: health check but just being supportive you know because there's they hold that stigma too and

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: probably some embarrassment of being in that depressive state absolutely you briefly brought

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: up your mom showing up on your doorstep and saying I know that you kind of became that caretaker

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_01]: can you talk a little bit about how being a caretaker for your mother when what she went through

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and what you went through living in that household was so foundational to some of the mental health

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: struggles that you had did that bring anything back up becoming that caretaker did that you

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: result in any other struggles as you worked through that especially like you mentioned with

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_01]: your husband who didn't have a lot of background in mental health yeah so that particular time

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: after we were married she showed up she stayed but then she always leaves the constant it's always

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_03]: always the abandonment trust me I've had to work through my abandonment issues

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: so but that time she was there hadn't seen her in years because she had stopped talking to me

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_03]: again and she left again on another journey and she went on to be homeless you know I would try to

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_03]: get her hotels she was like trying to get up to Washington or Oregon to Hood River because she

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_03]: thought that was like the place that you know she was being called to and that didn't go well

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_03]: she had a whole another probably eight gosh a lot I don't know how many months of just homelessness

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I didn't hear from her for six months and I get a call from a friend of hers and she's in

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: the hospital up in Seattle and she had had a stroke and she had been in the hospital for

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_03]: three months already so I fly up there and that's when I became her caretaker and had to manage

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_03]: all of her medical doctors I don't know if you guys have had to do that it's it's like it can be a

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_03]: full-time job sometimes and it could be a lot of stress um and then we ended up moving her to

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_03]: California where we lived at the time in Palm Springs and getting her help there and that's

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_03]: where I became the caretaker of getting her the best help because when I took her from

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Seattle the doctors said she has two weeks to live put her on hospice wow and she had

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_03]: a blood condition too just that's another story but um and so I got her to California

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_03]: great doctors at UCLA and she ended up living five years I changed her diet she couldn't even walk

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_03]: to the bathroom back then and her blood levels were like four something and um

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but I changed her food not like raw foods healthy because when I went and cleaned out

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: her cabinet was all boxed food frozen food tv dinners vodka bottles the whole shebang

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and but yeah so the doctor said two weeks and I got her five years that's incredible yeah

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and what was that weight on you as a caretaker like um heavy yeah heavy because

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I was running a business too so trying to do this also trying to be with her and I was going

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I was sometimes in Manhattan Beach and I'd get a call where she was suicidal and I'd have to

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_03]: rush out find 5150 do this it was and um and then I'd have to show up to work show up to film

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_03]: do all these things hold back the tears smile and um it was really hard yeah it was it was a heavy weight

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: so and I mean you just brought something you said right there made me think about something I feel

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: like a lot of people go through where it's like just had to show up and smile had to show up

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and push down everything else that you were feeling where do you feel like

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that can be detrimental to people just like holding everything in and bottling everything up

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you know it's terrible I don't recommend it but you know for tone it up it's a brand of

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: happiness and joy and then at the same time when I say I mean I gained probably

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: 20 30 pounds being a caretaker because I stopped taking care of myself and then I'm not really

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_03]: talking about my home life on camera and people are like oh Karina's gaining so much weight and

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: this and like my stress levels are up here my hormones are going crazy I'm not working out

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not taking care of myself and so that's one of the things I you know hope I don't have to

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: do it again but if I did I would definitely take more time to make sure I'm okay you know

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_03]: fill up your own health first and I that could go into many different ways from caretaker to

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_03]: parent to anything taking care of yourself because now that it's been two years I finally

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: feel like me again that's incredible and I think that's a really important message for

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: for other people because like you said it's not just caretakers but it's anyone who's a mom who's

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: running a business who's taking care of a household like no matter what it is you're you're taking

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: care of something else and at the same time are you are you taking care of yourself you know

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and so what would you say to someone who is in that particularly caretaker responsibility

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: because you're usually having to heavily like you were care for someone else and care for all

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_02]: these other things so how do you find the time and the mental capacity to even try to care for

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_03]: yourself during while you're in it yeah I don't I don't have advice like that and do it

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_03]: in a perfect world yeah you know I know I will say I woke up sad

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you know and I just it was okay what what do I have to handle what task do I have to handle

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: for mom today what task do I have to handle for work today it was immediately to that now what I

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: should have done because if you do wake up stressed and sad what I would tell myself to do

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_03]: it doesn't matter Karina go meditate before you dive into that go meditate go get out in nature

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_03]: and know you don't want to but just do it move your body somehow and it's the simple it's

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: such a simple little thing but sometimes we don't allow ourselves that but why

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: and you know now that I'm in a really good routine again I'm never gonna let that happen again

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_01]: when did meditation start to become something that was really important for you oh gosh

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: probably eight or nine years ago um just as stress management tool and then I studied TM

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I got certified with Deepak Chopra for primordial sound and I just it changed my life

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03]: because I've always lived in I'm I'm used to high stress environments which is good

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_03]: for being an entrepreneur but because I just I can handle myself I think I can handle myself well

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that's not necessarily a good thing but even the tools of meditation have helped me if you're going

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: into a tough meeting and you're you have a little anxiety just go sit somewhere quiet and do a three

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: minute meditation and breathe it's been really important I actually dabbled in it when I was

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_03]: a teenager two and I talk about this in my memoir too at this place called New Age People

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and I first learned about meditation as a 15 year old when I was not doing all the bad things at the

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_03]: raves I would found this place on Friday nights where I went and meditated and had these amazing

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_03]: meditations so I kind of learned about it back then but didn't really have it be a solid part

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: of my practice until eight or nine years ago seed was planted and waiting yeah her name was

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: white feather wow thank you thank you white so meditation I think you know people it has a

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: little bit of a stigma about it and a little bit of the woo woo and right so how does someone

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: start to lean in to meditation does it have to look a certain way is it getting an app and

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: listening to something is it just breathing are you supposed to clear your mind like what do you

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: recommend someone starting to be like okay I've heard about this meditation thing a lot I should

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: probably do it but what does that look like an even starting yeah and I agree with you it does

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_03]: have a stigma and especially like I was doing it in secret you know like and I wanted to bring

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_03]: it into tone it up for so long but then others are like no that's too I'm like but I believe

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_03]: to for full you know mind body health you have to include meditation so then eventually maybe four

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_03]: years ago um I brought in a program that included meditation and I do meditations in the tone it

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_03]: up app um so and it is scary for a lot of people but then once you do it it's like oh that's it

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and it doesn't have to be woods finding you know because we have 800 800000 to 100000 thoughts per

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_03]: day that's a lot and we're mostly their thoughts of our past or the future so if you meditate and

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_03]: you can become learn how to be in this present state and let your thoughts come and go and

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_03]: just drift away you eventually learn you need to train your brain to be more present and

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: so that's really for me what meditation is because if you have anxiety or anything it's

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: because you're just you're worrying so much and if you I just like a simple body scan

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and you can find that I mean you can google body scan meditation and that really connects you to

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_03]: your body in the present moment and it makes me feel like really safe as well you're like you're

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: here you're safe you're alive and I mean just deep breaths in to account of four

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and an exhale of two and there's so many different ways I mean obviously the tone up app I have

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: meditations but I use the calm app too I love sleep stories to go to sleep um and just simple

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: breathing exercises it can be so simple but I would say like challenge yourself to seven days of

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_03]: two minute morning meditations and see how you feel and I think that helps break down

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_01]: the barrier a little bit especially the time barrier like you said it doesn't have to take

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: long and I think a lot of the woo-woo like hopefully that's starting to fade away because

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it just comes from historically like oh all those hippies out in California doing their

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: hour-long meditations with whatever substances they're on and sound bowls and you know all that

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_01]: stuff it that's not what it has to be and you said before we got on the call like

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that Jen and I sounded very sciency and you didn't know if you had to talk

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_01]: but I'll bring a little bit of that science in like meditation and being able to focus on a

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: practice like that for any amount of time even if it's a minute our nervous system can't ignore

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: that our nervous system can't not shift into that rest digest parasympathetic relaxation

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: throughout your whole body and it just has to take a minute and I'm from Minnesota so I'm

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: traditionally from an area where nobody meditates middle Minnesota farm country but I was doing

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: breathwork and when people started asking me like oh well do you meditate and they would kind of

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: explain it to me I'd be like well I do my breathwork and that really sounds very similar

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_01]: to what you're talking about and so it really becomes whatever it needs to mean to you and

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't speak highly enough about finding that meditation or if you don't even like calling it

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: meditation call it whatever the heck you want to call it your like morning two minute prayer

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_03]: that gets you in that present state I was just a keynote at a conference last weekend

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_03]: in Denver and at the end of it I was teaching a meditation and about only 10% of the people

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_03]: had done meditation before and we did it and at the end everyone was just like I've never felt

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_03]: like this and just it was a lot of Midwest crowd and you know and people that are just not used to

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: hearing that and it really can be so simple and literally it calms that nervous system.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah so and I know you say that you used to struggle almost daily with anxiety and I know

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: that meditation is one of the practices that you use but is there something else that you've

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_02]: used to as well to help shift that state of anxiety? Does it still pop up for you? Is it

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_02]: something that you still struggle with? Like what can someone else do because I know anxiety is so

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: prevalent in our world today and what people are suffering with so what do you recommend?

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah it is prevalent and I used to have it a lot more and I would say in the past year

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I really haven't I think it's a mixture of the environment you're in as well and who

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_03]: is around you or what you know stresses you're under but also I've come up with these tools and

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I've also been able to recognize what anxiety is when it comes to me like I get it bad like my

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_03]: biggest nerve is just going off you know and I can just breathe through it meditate. I do love

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_03]: cold therapy for me I do cold therapy for my mental health because I you're basically

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: meditating in a cold bath or a plunge you have to breathe and it gets your mind off whatever else

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_03]: your mind is thinking of and it's like a shot of a stress zone I don't drink a lot of caffeine so

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: get me in that cold plunge. So yeah cold and hot therapy have really helped me red light therapy

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_03]: fitness see when I was having all of these anxiety attacks I was not working out either

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I was I was when you're feeling in a certain way and in this little dark bubble for this season

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: you're in like you don't do the things that you need to be doing and it's just self sabotage so

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_03]: also getting together with friends getting out and I love going on friend dates that are

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: hiking or meeting at the gym things like that I'm yeah just taking self self care but

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_03]: all those little things but I would say number one is movement meditation and give me that cold plunge.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I will second the cold plunge because he does it like daily I do it almost daily and

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: back to the science side of things. A cold plunge is literally setting off pain alarm

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: on our whole entire body and if you can sit in a cold plunge for a minute or two minutes

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and just tell your brain like it's cool it's okay yeah we'll be good like the power that

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: that gives you to go into the rest of your day you are not going to encounter anything

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that is as much of a shit storm on your nervous system as that cold plunge was

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and so like everything else throughout the rest of the day just seems like

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_01]: all right it's cool this is nothing like I just experienced so like I don't know I

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: when I talked about breath work I got into Wim Hof when I was in grad school

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm in Minnesota so I'm like cutting holes in lakes and like jumping in and doing

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: breath work and everyone is like that guy is insane but I loved it because of how I felt

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and so you actually went into what I wanted to ask about next which was movement I mean

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: tone it up that's where like you built your platform was in the movement space and how important that

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: can be to mental health you already kind of touched on that is there a certain amount of time people

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_01]: should be trying to get movement in is it a daily thing is it like hey if I get my half hour

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_03]: session in three times a week I'm good yeah it depends I would say three times a week is

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_03]: really good if you're being you know efficient at what you're doing four times a week we don't

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_03]: need to work out twice a day you know unless I you know unless you're an Olympic athlete and you

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_03]: have specific training and I'm you know for me it's probably three days a week of strength training

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and then I like to mix in yoga and walks and hiking I like to move a little bit I do like

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_03]: to move every day in some capacity it's like and I write down my schedule at the beginning

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_03]: on Sundays but I only do it because I'm like okay I want to go do yoga because it makes me feel good

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to go hiking in this beautiful hike because I want to be in nature and but I think

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: it's really important I got back into strength training I go in and out of like so many things

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: like what I love to do but now as of two years ago or so I'm back into lifting

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because it just makes me feel really strong mentally as well and especially you know as we

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_03]: get older we need to make sure that we're building muscle and eating a ton of protein

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_03]: you know one you know for one gram for every pound but yeah I think you don't we don't

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_03]: like yesterday I think I did a 20 minute circuit workout and that was good for me

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and then Saturday I'm going to do 45 minutes with my friend and trainer at the gym and you know

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: it's just I think just moving is really important so what do you all say for how many days a week

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to hear your science side of it you know there is no one set schedule that's a beauty of

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: us being humans an individual right it's not there's no one size fits all however a little

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: daily movement like you said it could be a walk it could be a hike it could but but what are you doing

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit just on a daily basis that's going to make an even bigger impact than the two huge

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: hour long workouts you know yeah a couple times a week it's it's going to be so beneficial to

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_02]: just start to build in more habits of movement and like I watch my husband who is amazing

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_02]: in the household too and he is up and cooking and chopping things and then he's like helping with

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_02]: laundry and helping with our kid and then he goes on a run with the dog and he like maybe he didn't

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: get a formal workout in that day but I'm seeing him move all throughout the day and it's and

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it's those things that we take for granted and we end up just sitting so much you know throughout

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: the day and on work and on calls and and it's really like how can we just get in more movement

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and then create fun workouts like that's what you guys have brought to people is making movement

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02]: fun again making movement a community based thing where people have that mental aspect of community

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and working out like that's what the only thing I was going to add and I think that that was

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: reflected in everything you said about movement is like and the research supports it has to be

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_01]: something you enjoy yeah it has to be something you don't see as a chore and if you're somebody

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that doesn't have a lot of movement in your life and you try going to do the two hour strength

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: training session at the gym like you're setting yourself up for failure and you're

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: setting yourself up to land back on the couch doing no movement wondering why those

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: hour long sessions at the gym didn't work and so starting with whatever it is you enjoy

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: if it's a hike if it's a walk with your dog if it's brawling around on the ground for 20 minutes

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: with your child in a way that like once you get done with it you're like whoo that was a lot of work

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_01]: for me that is what that's the type of movement that will be get more movement there's research

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_01]: to back that there's just like common sense to back that when you're doing things that you enjoy

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01]: you will start to feel more comfortable doing those things and then you will do more of them

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and then it will be get more activities that hey now I can do this

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and hey I actually enjoyed it so like you said even people who like exercising and working out

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: have turbulent relationships with strength training I do I do myself I kind of have ADHD

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: when it comes to movement because I'll do six weeks of strength training and be like that was great

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: now I'm bored like what what can I do now and so like I constantly need variety in my movement

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's that works for me you know I definitely do whatever I'm in the mood for but I am

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I look forward to strength training and when I say on Saturday I'm working out at the gym for an hour

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_03]: it's with my friend who's the trainer and half the time we're going to be talking in between

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: yes so more like yeah 50 50 no I love that but you're building in that community aspect

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: as you work out and that's I mean I hope that people continue to hear this message it doesn't

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_02]: have to be this you're beating up your body you're alone you're you know it's it's not

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: everything that you've said there's nothing that you're doing to your body because you have to

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like what do I get to do that I really enjoy within my body and allows me to feel better

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: allows me to feel more free within my mind and that's what you're really highlighting which

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I think is is beautiful and something that I hope more people you know begin to lean into and

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_02]: even when you were you know going through your caretaker time I remember you saying

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you didn't really have that time to work out how do you feel like that impacted you mentally

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: when you didn't really get to do what you love I'm terrible I mean it was already in a dark place

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and then not moving your body makes you don't have those endorphins I was exhausted all the

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: time tie you know just dragging along just like a zombie doing the tasks and it was really hard for

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_03]: me to get back into fitness afterwards as well going through the morning phase in the great

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_03]: you know the grief but then and then when I started working out again I wasn't loving it

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_03]: but for anyone listening who's like going through that I want to get back into it I want to

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_03]: start a new practice I'm at the point now where I'm excited to wake up in the morning

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and work out in the morning again or it's like I didn't have that for a long time but now I'm

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm pumped and I was like wow I haven't had that feeling in years and you know you're allowed to go

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_03]: through different phases in your life and so much happens but just know that you you too can get

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: back there I love it and I love that what Jen was kind of pointing out like all these things are

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: attainable and all these things are you know I don't want to say relatively easy or simple

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_01]: because for some people it won't seem easy and it won't seem simple to introduce a lot of these

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: techniques or you know exercise hydration getting outside and doing some movement meditation

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that can seem very overwhelming to people and I know you talk about it in significant more depth

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: in your memoir the big silence using the big silence platform you've created so where can

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_01]: people go to get the memoir and to learn more about what you're doing yeah just head over to

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_03]: the big silence dot com or I'm on instagram at Karina Dawn perfect I mean thank you so much again

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: for opening up and being willing to be brave and vulnerable in that way to share your story I mean

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know a lot of people I have one friend who's had to experience you know growing up

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_02]: seeing schizophrenia but there's not a lot of that being talked about or open and how that impacts

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_02]: your own mental health so I just really you know want to commend you for what you're doing this

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: space that you're opening up for other people and how you're helping thanks so much for sticking

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_01]: around for another interview such an incredible chat with Karina just all about how mental health

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: does not need to be anything that we need to suffer in silence with anymore we'll have

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: resources down in the show notes for anybody who might be looking for that also feel free to

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: pass this along to somebody else who might value from the episode consider leaving a rating and

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_01]: review on your favorite podcasting platform that just helps this show be seen by so many other

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_01]: people remember we always have our gen health community that you can come join and move

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: with us and feel something different in your body we give a free week trial for your first

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_01]: time signing up for the platform that link will also be down in the show notes it's just

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: gen.health backslash free trial and of course we'll see you next time on the optimal body podcast