373 | Using Mindset Shifts to Overcome Pain and Disease with Dr. Josh Axe

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to The Optimal Body Podcast. I'm Dr. Jen.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Dr. Dom and we are doctors of physical therapy,

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_03]: bringing you the body tips and physical therapy pearls of wisdom to help you begin to understand

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_03]: your body, relieve your pains and restrictions, and answer your questions.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Along with expert guests, our goal of The Optimal Body Podcast is really to help you

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: discover what optimal means within your own body. Let's dive in.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcoming back to the show, Dr. Josh Axe, who is a doctor of functional medicine,

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_03]: co-founder of Ancient Nutrition, New York Times bestselling author and graduate of

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_04]: John Hopkins University. He's the host of the top 25 health podcast, The Dr. Josh Axe Show,

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_04]: which covers the science of healing in body, mind, and spirit. Dr. Axe is an expert in natural

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_04]: medicine, nutrition, mindset, spiritual healing, and longevity. We're excited to have him back on

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_04]: the show. Really a lot of the episode we focus on a debilitating back injury and experience that he

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_04]: had and is still healing from and how that was one of his inspirations for his new book,

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Think This, Not That. Let's get into it. Dr. Josh Axe, so excited to have you back

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_04]: on the podcast, one of our repeat guests. Thanks for giving us your time. I mean,

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I know you just had a new book come out, Think This, Not That. Is that correct?

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, excited to talk a little bit about where the inspiration from that book came from

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and some of the things you're really liking to educate into right now in the

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_04]: world of functional medicine and longevity.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thanks. Well, Dr. Jim, Dr. Dom, thanks for having me. Excited to talk all things,

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_00]: how to get rid of chronic pain, how to heal naturally. So it's yeah, let's dive in.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Well, I know you wrote the book during a very interesting time in your life. Can you kind

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: of talk about what you were going through and kind of what helped move this book forward a

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: little bit? Yeah. So it's not necessarily a lot of people know this. I've put out a lot of

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: nutrition content for quite a few years, teaching people how to use food as medicine. And a couple

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: of years, quite a few years ago, I injured my back lifting weights. I was doing... Again,

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you guys are going to... This is the sort of thing you guys deal with frequently on your show,

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: doing CrossFit. I'm really not built for CrossFit. I'm built more for swimming and for

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: more probably endurance sports. But I injured my back a little bit then. And then I was doing

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: heavy rows a week later after my back was, I think, already compromised and ended up

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00]: hearing a pop in my back. And I herniated two discs. And I was in just terrible pain for a while.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And I tried a lot of things, a lot of physical therapy, a lot of functional movement,

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_00]: chiropractic, nutrition. And it got better, but not all the way better. And I was kind of living

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: with this pain. And then I got turned on to stem cell therapy and PRP. I went and got stem cell

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: done. And it really helped tremendously. I noticed a really significant difference. They drew my bone

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: marrow, injected in the area, and it really helped. Well, several years had passed. And I had

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: probably got back to maybe 90%, 95%. But I still had this little nagging ache in my lower back if

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I would sit very long at all, especially on soft surfaces. And if I would fly and I travel a lot for

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'd get this pain right in my QL area, probably around that tip of that L4 transverse

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: process. And so I thought, you know what? I'm going to go and get stem cell done one more time.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it'd probably... I'd completely get rid of this pain. And I had a couple torn discs

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: on the MRI. So I went in to get this done again. This was about a year and nine months ago-ish,

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: year and 10 months ago. And so they went in, same thing, injected my own bone marrow,

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: stem cells into my disc. And then afterwards, I just didn't feel great. I kept feeling worse and

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: worse and worse. And I thought, well, gosh, maybe when I was doing something, I re-injured it.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And finally, three months later, it got so bad, I had to put a back brace on.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And then one morning I woke up and the pain was so bad, I couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't move.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the next day, it was so bad that I literally was like, I couldn't even roll over

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: on my side. And I thought, this isn't right. The fact that it's gotten worse for three months.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Taking a quick pause from the interview to talk about one of our favorite ways to stay hydrated,

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_04]: something that is so important but not enough of us are paying attention to is staying hydrated,

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_04]: not just by drinking water, but by making sure we're replenishing the electrolytes

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_04]: that we lose on a daily basis. And that is why Jen and I use Element, that's L-M-N-T,

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_04]: electrolyte mix to keep our body hydrated on a cellular level. The bonus is you can get a free

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_04]: sample pack with any order by going down to the link in our show notes. It's just drinkelement,

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_04]: L-M-N-T dot com backslash optimal. And the reason that we do this is because we are losing sodium,

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_04]: potassium and magnesium every day, all day, just through our skin when we go to the bathroom.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_04]: So, we need to make sure we're putting that back into our body. It can help us with so many things

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_04]: like brain fog and fatigue, our sleep quality, the quality of our bowel movements, and so much more.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So, if you want to try Element out and get that free sample pack,

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_04]: go down to the link in the show notes today and get yours ordered. Let's get back into the interview.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I went in, got an MRI, and I was in Puerto Rico at the time. Chelsea and I live between

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Puerto Rico and Nashville, Tennessee. And I get the report back and it says I have an infection

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: in my disc and it was in my L5 vertebrae and I had an abscess in now by the spinal cord,

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the spinal canal with the infection. And so, I had to get on a flight immediately

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: to... I had to take a private medical flight from Puerto Rico to Florida.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I met with an infectious disease specialist and the entire time I have an ambulance picking me

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: up, I had to get on a cot, put on the plane, taken off. The pain was just so unbelievably bad.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I sat down with him and here's what he told me. He said, Josh, listen,

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: this infection is really severe. He said, you have osteomyelitis and so it's really...

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_00]: This infection is in the bone, in the spinal... Abscess in the spinal canal. And he said,

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to let you know your prognosis. He said, best case scenario is you're going to have

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: chronic pain the rest of your life. And he said, you'll also be the first person to know anytime

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: bad weather comes through. And he said, worst case scenario is this could kill you, but probably more

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_00]: likely is this could leave you permanently disabled. Now, I'll just say, I don't think

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: he had the best bedside manner, but... Needless to say.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: This guy was one of the world's experts in this, in Florida, in infectious disease and

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: infections like this. So, I had about 24 to 48 hours where I... Well, one, I went back and did

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: research myself. And I thought I would find a lot of cases where people said, hey, I recovered 100%,

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt great. I didn't really find that. In fact, I just felt worse after going and

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: reading everything I did online. And so, I had about 48 hours where... I mean, I can say there

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: are emotions I'd never experienced before that I experienced. I'd never felt... And I'm a very

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: positive person. I'd never felt despair or hopelessness before. And I'd felt it because

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you can imagine me, you are both so fit and active. Being in a state where a few months

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: before I'm throwing my two-year-old daughter five, 10 foot in the air in the pool. I'm swimming,

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm biking, I'm squatting, I'm deadlifting, I'm doing all these things. And to think,

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: it's hard also not to go back in time and say, I wish I wouldn't have got that done or

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: blame somebody for making a mistake. And we don't know what happened. If somehow...

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was one of the probably two largest and most prestigious stem cell clinics in the

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: United States. So, this wasn't like it was a hole in the wall and...

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Bad family operation.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, again, we don't know what happened. And I know they cleaned me... Again, I was there.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: They did what they were supposed to do. And I read online the chances, like one in half a million

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: chance that something like this could happen. When people go get surgeries where they get, let's call

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: a knee replacement or shoulder surgery. I mean, you can, it can happen. You can get a low-grade

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: infection. But just going in with that small of a needle, it is just very unlikely, but it happened.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, his recommendation to me was... Well, let me say this. And I just felt really hopeless.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a person of faith and I really just leaned into God. And I just said,

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: God, you know what? I believe you are bigger than this diagnosis.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And worrying about it, living in a state of hopelessness, that's not going to help me heal.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I just sort of decided in my mind, I said, I'm going to focus on being the 1% of people.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We see those people online who... Or we've watched videos of them where they're told they'll never

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: walk again because of paralysis and spinal cord injuries. And they do. And I said, you know what?

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do everything I can in my capacity to heal. I'm going to believe that God's going

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: to plan with this and we'll use it for good. And so, I'm going to do everything I can to just

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: do my part in healing. And I read this interesting... It wasn't a study. It was a

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_00]: paper though by a PhD. And he talked about amplifying the placebo effect. And many people

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: know some of the story with the placebo effect, but it's really interesting.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was during World War I. There were a lot of fallen soldiers and they would give them

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: the drug morphine. And everybody knows that morphine is an incredibly powerful drug. Well,

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: the physician at that time, they ran out of morphine. And so, you have these soldiers that

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: were in excruciating pain. And so, he just decided, well, I have to give them something.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: So, he just gave them sugar pills. And it's amazing when you look at the statistics of it.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: In his notes, he put down that 30% to 40% of them had the same pain relief as if they were

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_00]: taking morphine. And to me, that was so mind-blowing because when I was researching how to heal,

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: power of placebo effect, everything else, I was like, wow, the fact that your brain can create

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: those neurochemicals in order to numb an area that well or even heal an area, it's really important.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So, in this article I read, they really talked about how to amplify placebo. One way is you need

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: to be very certain about what it is you want. Be able to visualize it very clearly. So,

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: do you want to be able to run again? Do you want to be able to go out to eat? What do you want?

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I pictured myself throwing my two-year-old daughter in the pool again. I wanted to be

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_00]: able to do that. I wanted to be able to run. I wanted to be able to squat, do all those things.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I got really clear about that. The other thing he said was, ideally, you want to feel the same

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: emotions right now you're going to be feeling then. Make it almost like it's happening now.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Make that real. So, I would picture myself throwing Arwen in the air and smiling and laughing and

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_00]: being excited about it. And the third thing he said in this article is he said, you also need

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to make your nervous system believe it. Because he said, sometimes there's this level of, this isn't

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: exactly it, but this toxic positivity where you just say, everything's perfect, everything's

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: wonderful, and your body doesn't actually believe you. And so, he said, you want to write out a very

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: specific detailed plan of exactly how you're going to make this a reality. And so, I did that.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote down what I'll do for therapy and what I was going to eat and all the things I was going to

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: do. And then I started on this treatment plan. Now, the infectious disease doctor told me,

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: ideally, you're going to be on antibiotic IV for... And this was so long. I didn't realize this

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: again, it was going to be this long. But he said, we typically do IV antibiotics for six weeks.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we do another six weeks of oral antibiotics. That's three months straight

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: of antibiotics. Now, listen, I'm not stupid. I'm very into natural medicine, but I also

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_00]: knew that I needed to heal this infection in my spine. But I also did want to minimize the damage

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to my gut and my cellular health because we all know antibiotics are very, very hard on those

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: areas. So, I found a study on how to lower your antibiotic the total time. And it was a study

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: done on patients who had spinal infections, the exact same thing I had. Now, there was only eight

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: people, eight to 10. So, it wasn't a large-scale study, but they were able to... And all of them

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: were able to kill the infection if they got in a hyperbaric chamber, pretty much a hard chamber

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: every day for four weeks. And so, I did that. I went and found a hard chamber. Again, by the way,

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't walk this whole time. I had to take a medical van in. They had to put me on the roller,

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: bring me in. I'd roll over and get on a hyperbaric chamber. So, I did this about every day for

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: almost six weeks. And then I also did some IVs of things like silver and methylene blue and ozone.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing everything possible. And I did the IV antibiotics for four weeks.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I got off the antibiotics after four weeks. And I'd say after two weeks,

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: the first two weeks, I felt nothing. And then I started feeling a little better, like 1% better.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I kept feeling 1% better after that. But it was 10 months before I could walk. And then I

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: was on a walker for two months. So, I didn't walk on my own for a year. In fact, this time last year,

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I was on a walker. And I'm excited to say that I'm probably about 85% back. I mean, I'm lifting

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: weights. I can carry my daughter. I can't quite run yet, or I'm not really throwing her in the

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: air or doing anything very heavy. But I have seen really great progress. And I think I'll be back

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: to 100% by the end of the year. And I'm definitely way better than that infectious disease doctor

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: said I would be because he was essentially saying there wouldn't be a day I live without pain.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think I've had pain once today. So, all that being said, I learned so much through

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that process. I mean, you guys understand this. When you have a family member or it's yourself

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: going through it, I spent thousands and thousands of hours reading every journal, talking to every

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: doctor who I could about how do I optimize my healing? And there was a lot of things I did. I

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: mean, I had everything from hyperbaric chamber to contrast. I actually found my back felt a lot

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: better. I tried cold plunge. I tried just sauna. I tried infrared heat. But when I would go back

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and forth between cold plunge and hot tub, that contrast for circulation, I really felt a

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: noticeable difference. And now this might surprise some people. I actually went and got stem cell

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: again. Now, I went to a different place. I went and got umbilical cord cells from what I think

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: is the best place in the world. It's called Rehealth. It's in Cancun. And saw really great

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_00]: results with that. I think that really helped. Some of the nutritional things I did. I couldn't

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_00]: even sit because the pain was so bad, but I could crawl after the first two months. So,

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I crawled and got in a pool. So, did a lot of movement in there and slowly worked my way up.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, I could keep talking here, but that was some of what transpired.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and again, when it's something that's so personal to you and has put you for the first

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_04]: time in your life in a place of that feeling of despair and just utter... It's unbelievable,

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_04]: the situation that you're in when you, like you said just previously, were lifting,

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_04]: were functional, were living your best life essentially. And now you're being told that,

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: hey, you might never go a day without pain again. And I think, just as you said,

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_04]: you far surpassed that doctor's worst case scenario already. And I think, well, on your

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_04]: way to getting back to being at your 100%. I just think that one thing that really stuck with me

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_04]: that I actually wanted to ask you about was the placebo effect. And I feel like for the longest

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_04]: time, so many people have kind of bastardized the placebo effect and said like, physicians are

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_04]: taking advantage of people's placebo. And I feel like that's initially where I started because like,

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, if the treatment they're doing isn't actually doing what they're claiming or whatever,

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_04]: but it's making people feel better, that's wrong. But I'm starting to come around to say,

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_04]: we should maximize the placebo effect. And then a lot of the podcasts that I do,

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_04]: when we look at the research and say like, oh, whether the machine was on or off,

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_04]: it didn't show much of a difference, but it showed a difference in 60% of people.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_04]: One of my takeaway points is if you're ever going to go have this done,

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_04]: go in with the belief that it's going to change your life.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't see what's wrong with that anymore.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Here's my take on this is I think it's very, and I think you guys are going to be in line with this.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very, one, we never want to lie, right? And so we always want to be very honest.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that honesty is best when it's also going to best serve that individual. And so

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a way to say things and frame things up for people that give them their best chance of

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: healing. I think one of the gravest sins in all of healthcare is how often doctors, whether it be

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: an MD, a DC, a PhD, a PT, a doctor of physical therapy, whatever it is, we constantly are

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: breaking the Hippocratic oath. When we say first do no harm and you tell somebody, and I experienced

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: this with my mom who had cancer. She went in and one of the first things the doctor told her was,

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: you have a 40% chance of living. When I think about if that's actually helpful or not,

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not. My mom had so much more anxiety and fear through the process because of it, which does not,

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: we know medically, statistically, it does not improve her chances of survival. It's not a good

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_00]: thing. And listen, some of this has to do with our personal belief systems. Again, I mentioned this

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm unashamed about it, but I am a person of faith and really believe that God has a plan for

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: our life, that he is for us, not against us, that he created our bodies to heal and wants to help us

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: heal. And so praying for guidance for that and prayer for healing is something that helps.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think because of that, my personal beliefs about who God is and about our bodies and the

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: nature of the divine, I think that maybe I have more of the mindset of believing in miracles.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a saying and it's, you can go through the world thinking everything's a miracle or nothing

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: is. I'm more of everything is. And so I think that maybe that keeps some physicians that are more

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe atheists in nature or maybe are more pessimistic in nature, maybe believing that,

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_00]: hey, if you give somebody the worst case scenario, I'm not liable or they're not going to

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: be disappointed. But the reality is, again, statistically, the best thing to do is what

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: gives the patient their best chance of getting back fully to health. And so there are plenty...

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, we're all in this situation constantly. I'm in this situation every day. I still do a lot

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_00]: of consultations with people. I've never found somebody gets better if I'm really negative with

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: them and telling them their chance of healing is not good versus letting them know it.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what surprises me? I think one of the things that surprised me the most is how often

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: people are, I think, almost surprised by how assertive I am in letting them know,

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you're likely going to heal. You're going to get better. I'm very assertive in telling them that

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: if I'm sure of it. Let me give an example though. I had somebody yesterday with Meniere's disease,

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's a harder one to deal with. And so I wasn't like, this is going to be cured. You're

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: going to get back to 100%. But I told them this. I said, listen, I've seen great improvements with

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: this condition. So again, I think we want to balance honesty with hope.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. Exactly. And that's what I would love for clinicians to be able to lean into more.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had so many patients where it's like, oh, well, you're getting into your 30s and 40s. So

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: probably rounding over on a bike is just not going to be good for you anymore. And I'm like,

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: have you seen an older person on a bike? Have you seen an 80-year-old on a bike? Have you seen

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: other people? So do you think that could be possible for you? And you have to paint that

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: scenario for them though of showing what's possible, which is what you looked for. Okay,

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_01]: if I could be the 1%, if I could be that 1%, why not? Why can't that be me? And I think that's

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: what's so limiting to people, not only what they're told from their clinician or from their

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_01]: physician, but also what they believe about their body. It's like we focus so much on what's wrong

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: rather than what's possible. And how do people start to make those shifts, especially when you've

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: been dealing with chronic pain or you get that disease, that disorder and that diagnosis that

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_01]: really terrifies you? So how do you make that shift? What do you recommend for people?

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And to your point, I mentioned, you mentioned, we both mentioned this 1% idea.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I think more people need to focus on the 1% and not the majority. It's like if you want to

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: increase your wealth, go do what Warren Buffett does and Ray Dalio and Cathie Wood and some of

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: the wealthiest people. Don't focus on what the average Joe is doing with their money. Focus on

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: following those principles. It's the same thing. It's like, if I'm following a PT,

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm following you guys. In fact, Jen, I've done a lot of your videos over the years,

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of especially with back pain, just getting started out a bit. As I was sort of creeped,

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: just being able to do things, I was doing a lot of the cat camels and a lot of the pelvic tilts

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: back and forth, a lot of that stuff. But it's like, I'm not listening. No offense to PTs out

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_00]: there or chiropractors or whatever, but I don't listen to most of them. I listen to the top 1%.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a really important thing for people, I think, to just be aware of.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the first thing I would say is focus on the top 1% and then decide what it is you want.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: What is that thing you want? And so for me, it was getting back physically to where I was.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Now also spiritually and mentally, I was praying to God. I said,

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: make me better than I was in those areas. But I wanted to get back to where I was. And so I

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: started there and then I really laid out a plan and I put together... And one thing you want to do

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_00]: is look at, okay, what are the top 1%ers? Where do they overlap? What are all the things they're

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: saying that must be those principles that are everlasting that are going to be true for healing?

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll give you an example nutritionally. If I want to look at, okay, what are the top supplements

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: for reducing inflammation and chronic pain? Okay. When I am looking at both the research and the

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: top 1%, you're going to tend to find number one is going to be an omega fish oil, typically

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: a thousand to 2000 milligrams a day in the studies. You're going to tend to find a turmeric,

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: typically a curcumin with piperine. And so that's going to be the second one.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I think also you're going to find a lot of things like Boswellia extract, Boswellia serrata. That's

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be high up on the list. Of course, there's rosemary, there's ginger. And then there's

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_00]: going to be a diet that's more Mediterranean in nature that's anti-inflammatory. You're going

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: look at a lot of wild caught fish and some pastured meat, and then a lot of vegetables,

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_00]: typically cooked and raw, and then a lot of fruit as well. And so it really,

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and maybe some things like walnuts. I mean, there's a very specific diet for

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: reducing inflammation. You're going to see most of the experts out there, there's going to be a

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_00]: lot of crossover on some of those important things. And so start to build a plan and you could

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: see a practitioner who's seen great results with this. But again, I think know where you want to go,

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00]: lay out a very specific plan, follow it, but also know that your body is very unique

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and that sometimes you need to make small adjustments and improvements along the way.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Going back to this idea too, and I just want to give you an example.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I constantly, when I had my practice and even still today, I had patients, probably the most

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: common thing I heard from patients was after they saw their physicians was, I said, well,

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_00]: what was your doctor's advice or what did they tell you? And I would tend to hear things like,

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: most doctors would say things like, you have to be on this drug the rest of your life.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing was your condition's irreversible. Now maybe there's different

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: words to that, but that was essentially the gist of it. And that wasn't my finding.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you an example. This happened a lot with my type two diabetic patients.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, type two diabetes, I don't want to say it's easy to reverse,

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: but I really think there is a very specific type of protocol where 90 plus percent of the time

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw type two diabetes reversed if people followed it. I mean, it really is just

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: balancing out blood sugar. And if you follow a diet that's mostly protein,

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: some fiber, quite a bit of fiber and some healthy fat, you kind of lower the carbon take

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and eat just real food. That alone typically does it, increasing their movement, everything from

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: walking to weight training, and then taking specific nutrients. Chromium picolinate,

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: magnesium B12 are the biggest nutrients. And then berberine, which is found in Bayberry,

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: fenugreek and cinnamon are the biggest herbals. And so I would have them do that,

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: try and get better sleep, lower some stress. Today, and now they didn't have this when I was

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in full-time practice, I'd have them wear probably a continuous blood glucose monitor.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But for the most part, boom. And part of the reason the way we did this is, and this is what

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I love about what you two do, is I practice something called the five whys. This is something

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Elon Musk does. It's really the Socratic method of getting to the root cause of an issue.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And you just keep asking why. So for instance, with type 2 diabetes,

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: why is your blood sugar high? Well, we've burned out the insulin receptor sites. Okay. Well,

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: why is there an insulin issue? Well, we've burned out the insulin receptor sites. Why

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: does that happen? There's too much sugar in the bloodstream. Why is there too much sugar in the

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: bloodstream? Well, the person's consuming too many carbohydrates. And maybe there's a secondary

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: thing like stress is too high, cortisol, which is also affecting insulin. Okay. Well, what's another?

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But why is that person eating so much sugar? They're not educated. They just don't know.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't realize that there's sugar in their pasta sauce and their salad dressing and seed

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: oils and all this stuff that's also contributing. Okay. Well, what should we do? Okay. Well, here's

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_00]: how to balance blood sugar. Some of the things I shared. And same thing. So there's a lot of people

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that come in and see you guys who... Let me give you an example with myself. I'm still dealing with,

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_00]: but it's a lot better. I was in bed with my knees up like this for a year. Well, when I've had a

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: time rehabbing, an equally hard time rehabbing with as long with my back is, my fascia is

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: unbelievably tight. My IT bands now are all shortened. And so my patella is tracking laterally.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got all these issues. And so let me tell you what I started doing and you guys are going to

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: laugh at this. I mean, I got on the foam roller constantly on that IT and I knew better because

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I do know a lot of functional movement stuff and I just made me worse. And I'm like, okay.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So eventually after trying some stuff, I'm like, okay, TFL was a lot of stuff around my hip.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And then it started getting better. But my point is how many people are going to the gym now

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and just crushing their IT bands or going down to their knee or say, I have a knee problem.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to get better when it's coming. So my point there is that there aren't a whole

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: lot of physicians getting to the root of the issue. But going back to this, this is why it's

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_00]: so important if anybody listening to this, that you are seeing the right practitioner,

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that you are following the 1%. Because honestly, it's only the 1% to 20%.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Typically the people in the middle of practitioners today, and I hate to say this, it's MDs, DOs,

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: it's everybody. They're not giving the best advice. They're still trial, typically treating

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: a symptom, not the root of what's causing the issue. Yeah. And I think I really like this idea

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_04]: of it's kind of like the top 1% Venn diagram. Read a few things from each of those people and

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: what overlaps, write it all down on a list. And those are the things that you could be pretty

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_04]: confident are going to help you out. And I do also agree with that middle two quartiles of practitioners.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't agree that they're all doing it because they have any sort of ill intent or because they

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_04]: don't want to truly get to the root cause. I think a lot of it is systemic and that's where

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_04]: my mind has kind of gone to. Those are the people who are just like, well, this is my job.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_04]: This is how the system operates and how I can just do my job, get my paycheck and go home

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and not worry about it. Yes. I also have a lot of sadness in my heart that that is the way...

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_04]: I know a lot of my classmates that went through PT school that now are practicing and aren't super

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_04]: happy with the system that they're in. But well, it's what I went to school for and it's what I

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_04]: need to do now. So yeah, but that's a soapbox for a different time. When we're talking about pain,

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_04]: pain is something that you went through. We're talking about people who come into us and tell

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: us those things like, oh, the doctor said I have the worst back they've ever seen on an x-ray or my

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_04]: knee is bone on bone and I'm never going to... I'm going to need a knee replacement or else this

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_04]: pain is never going to go away. Jen and I have both worked with types of patients like that,

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_04]: got them feeling significant better. Maybe not 100% resolution of the pain, but help with those

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_04]: mindset shifts. Where can somebody who's in that kind of disparity start to work in the opposite

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_04]: direction of, well, this is what my belief is. My knee is never going to get better without a

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_04]: replacement or a back surgery. What do I do now? Well, one of the things I realized too,

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think this is very helpful for people, you have to... If somebody wants to know what

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: should they believe, you should believe what's going to lead to the best case scenario for you

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and everyone around you. I know that sounds interesting. And here's another, this is a

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: biblical saying, but by your fruit, you will recognize them. That's how you're going to know

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: who are the practitioners that are helping people and they're saying, I'm pain-free now.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pay-free now. I'm functional now. I can do this. I couldn't run before. Now I can.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So by their fruit, you will recognize them by the results. So look out who are those people

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: that are getting results over and over and over again. And that's the person that you want to go

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: see. That's the person that you really want to seek out as your mentor, your doctor, your

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: practitioner that's going to help you recover and heal. And again, going back to this,

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: here's what I was in this situation. And this is connected to limiting beliefs.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There is a Yale professor, PhD. He created something called the ABCDE method for

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: changing your belief. And he said, A, the first thing you want to do is ask... Well,

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: does this belief holding you back in life for some reason? Or does the top 1% believe this?

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: If you believe money doesn't grow on trees and you got to hold it tightly,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and that keeps you from being generous, do the wealthiest people in the world act like that?

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: No, they tend to be very philanthropic, actually giving a lot of money away.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so all that being said is you need to go and look again. We've talked about this quite a bit,

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: this 1% rule, but I do think that is a really important concept people don't want to leave

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: behind. And then once you recognize this belief probably isn't the ideal belief,

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you want to go and follow A, activate it. What's the memory? When did it start? When was the first

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_00]: time I felt like I was going to have to be on this drug the rest of my life or I couldn't heal,

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: or I would never be back to my old self again, whatever it is. So activate the memory when did

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: it start? So that's A. B is what is the exact belief? Identify it. I'm not smart, I'm not

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: worthy, I'm not beautiful, I can't heal. By the way, the biggest thing I struggled with

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: even after I believed I was going to heal, it was, well, I could heal but I can't get back to 100%.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: That was a real... That was a thing. Will I ever play basketball again?

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, those sorts of things. So anyways, but that was... I had to be like, that's the belief.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. That's... I believe I can only get up to 70%. Okay. Well, the next thing is C. What are

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the consequences if I decide that that is my future, if I decide to believe that?

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the reality is if I believe I can only get to 70%, I'm probably going to get there and stop.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of other consequences though too. I mean, if you believe that you can't reverse your

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: condition, I would argue that you're impairing yourself neurologically in terms of some of those,

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_00]: if people read up on neuroplasticity, like what's going to happen there and

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just... It is going to limit you. So I don't... So anyways, but find the consequences.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And then D is dispute it. Why is that a lie? Why is that not true? What actually is the best thing

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_00]: for me to believe? So dispute that belief and come up with something that's true and exchange it for

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: a new empowering belief that will lead you to the best situation. So for me, I decided, you know what?

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that I'm going to have to have this permanent disability and have... He had mentioned,

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_00]: you might have to have rods put in your spine or be on a walker and a number of things. I thought

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00]: that's not my truth. The other thing that isn't going to be true for me is, or I'm hoping not,

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: is to be at 70%. I'm going to believe that I will get back to 100% and I'll do everything in my power

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: to get there. And so that's what I decided was going to be the best for my future, the best for

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: my family, the best in honoring God with my body is to believe for 100% healing. And so that's sort

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of the method and the process that I kind of go through with people I went through with myself

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of addressing what the belief is and working to overcome it.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's... I would say that's the hardest part for people. It's not necessarily always

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: finding the right practitioner or finding all the correct exercises or the things that you're going

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: to eat. It's the belief in being able to get out of chronic pain or being able to

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_01]: conquer this disease. That is what I find is the hardest, especially when people I've seen are like,

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_01]: well, here's what my chiro said. Here's what my PT said. Here's what my doctor said. And they're

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: just gathering, gathering, gathering information, which could just inflate what they're believing

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01]: about it. Because now this clinician is seeing this problem. This clinician is seeing this

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: problem. And we all see things a little bit differently, right? But now if we're

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_01]: exacerbating the problems that they're just looking at, it's really hard to then start to believe in

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: this power to overcome. So I guess how do you also work with someone who is falling down that,

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_01]: like, I'm going for the 1%. I'm going for the best practitioner. And I'm going to all these

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: different practitioners to try to find that. How do we stop that barrier of that becoming too much?

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. So two thoughts. I'm going to go back to this thing. And this is, I hope,

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: the biggest thing people take away or one of the biggest things they take away from this

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: whole podcast today. And that is there's a really short story here and is that

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_00]: there were two homeless men sitting on a bench next to each other. And one looked at the other

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said, hey, how did you end up here? And he said, I didn't listen to anybody.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other one looked at the other one. He said, how did you end up here? He said,

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I listened to everybody. The listening to everybody thing is as bad as listening to nobody

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_00]: thing. They don't leave you in this sort of like twilight zone of just nothingness and averageness.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Go for and listen to the top 1%. Now, what I found with my patients was the most helpful.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And now that I've been through several injuries and health crises with myself and my family too,

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I can say I've experienced this. The thing that was most helpful for me

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_00]: was somebody who had the exact condition I had and had a positive outcome with it.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: There was a couple of chiropractors, their daughter, when she was in college,

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: got the same spinal infection, almost same area. And they told me, they said, listen,

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_00]: our daughter, this was really hard. She had to get on the bed, all those same things.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But three, and I said, listen, it took a long time to heal because the blood supply to the

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: disc, I already knew this. You guys know this. The blood supply of the disc is so low. But

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: about three years later, she felt like she was about back to normal, back to 100%.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And the crazy part is all the medical studies I read, which were hundreds about this, if not more,

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_00]: all of the hours, everything I read for some reason, that for me was the single most encouraging

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_00]: thing, that somebody had the exact problem that I had and now they had seen a great outcome.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the power of story. So we really relate to that more than a study. And so I think for

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: people, the thing that I've found helps my patients the best. And so we did this in my

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_00]: clinic. This was a long time ago. But we would have a binder in there with different conditions

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was alphabetized. And I'd have people, if they saw a great result, write down the story of

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_00]: type 2 diabetics. We had like 25 people, like, oh, I reversed my A1C. This happened. It took this

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_00]: many months. This is what I ate. And so we had that. So when people in diabetes came in, we

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_00]: would say, hey, read these because we just knew that was such a powerful exercise for them.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_04]: That is and the relatability and it makes it so personal to people when they can hear other

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_04]: people's personal triumphs. And I think that's very powerful and very telling that

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_04]: you, who I know reads, like you said, thousands of hours of research, but you find one story.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's like that grain of sand on the beach you've been looking for to just say,

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_04]: that's all I needed. And I get chills when I say that because that's what everyone's looking for.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_04]: They're looking for that grain of hope that can overpower all of the everyone's that they

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_04]: previously had been listening to, to give them that in. I'm sure in your clinic, you see a lot

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_04]: patients that are dealing with some physical pain, whether it is a chronic pain condition,

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_04]: whether it is localized acute pain. I'm not sure in the functional medicine space, if there are

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_04]: specific things that you start to go to say somebody has been dealing with chronic physical

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: pain for a period of time. Yeah. So let me give you an example with low back pain. We could also

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: talk about knee pain. I think it's going to be overlapping. One is asking the question,

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_00]: is it a structural issue? Is it a chemical issue? What's the primary? Now, by the way,

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think you should treat it with the secondary things too. But if it is a...

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Your functional movement is poor. Well, let's see somebody... There are groups I've worked with in

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the past. I don't know if you know PRI, a man named Ron Hruska. I saw him in the past and was

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: really tremendous. There's a GOSCU, there's a lot of functional movement practitioners out there.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_00]: But I would say one, do that. Do the functional movement. That's one of the most important things

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00]: to do for chronic pain because if the pattern is wrong, you're just like... Again, the analogy,

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_00]: you guys have probably talked about plenty, but it's like if your wheels are out of alignment,

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you're just going to keep wearing them down even if you do go and do other things.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the primary is let's take care of the right movement in the area getting, again,

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_00]: strength, stability, mobility, all of those things that you guys teach in there. That's primary.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The next thing I would say is let's look at diet. Let's follow the anti-inflammatory diet I talked

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_00]: about earlier with the turmeric and omegas and wild caught fish and lots of vegetables and

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_00]: coconut and olive and avocado and fiber, berries, those sorts of foods predominantly. Let's do that.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing I would say is there are some great holistic treatments.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think stem cell treatment and PRP can be really, really beneficial. I think if it's a

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_00]: ligament instability issue, even getting something that's less expensive like a prolotherapy for some

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: people can be beneficial. You want to tighten the ligaments and strengthen the muscles surrounding

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: the tissue. So I do recommend those things. I think cold laser can be beneficial. I think PEMF

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00]: can be good. I think that, again, that contrast of hot, cold back and forth can help increase

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_00]: circulation and be helpful. So there's a lot of those modalities that I think can be very helpful.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But my approach has always been this. It's been not a pill but a protocol.

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Now maybe pills are part of it. Taking the omega-3s and the turmeric and those things,

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_00]: which are food in supplement form, but I would do that. But I would do all of the things.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_00]: People always get the best results when they have a full-on protocol where they're addressing

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: all of the primary and then all the secondary causes that are contributing

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_00]: to whatever the condition is. This is something I don't see. I wish it would happen more.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I think when doctors collaborate together, it tends to happen more. But some doctors maybe

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: are worried that, oh, if I refer them, maybe they're not going to continue to see me. There's

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_00]: all kinds of reasons there. But my point is, I think when people follow a full-on protocol,

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: they tend to get by far the best results. Yeah. I agree because then we're not just

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: honing in and focusing on one thing because it's never just that one thing.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. How can we take a step back and look at you as a whole human

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and how you're functioning through life and what do we need to do to support that?

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_01]: One last question I have for you too is just now that you feel like you're at that 85%,

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: what are you doing in your own mindset and in your own lifestyle to get you to that 100%?

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, one is I'm continuing to be prayerful and grateful. I go on a walk every morning. I do

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: spiritual triathlon where I thank God. I go on a walk and just say, thank you, God, for how far

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I've come. And so I just get really grateful. I get grateful for other things, for my amazing wife,

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_00]: for my two daughters, for having a roof over my head, for having a job I love and a career I love.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one thing I am very conscious of is continuing to stay prayerful and grateful.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And one, because I truly am grateful to God and truly grateful to my family and the people

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that supported me. And also it helps you heal. That's a reality. Having that mindset that we

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_00]: discussed earlier. And then I have studied so much longevity medicine in the past two years.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about now that I am in my 40s and it's like, I want to be in my 90s and still riding a bike.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to still be very active. And so how do I set myself up to where I age as slow as I possibly

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: can? And so that's another thing I'm doing. Nutritionally, it's funny. When I make my

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_00]: smoothie in the morning, I'm doing... There's probably 20 different things. It takes me 10

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_00]: minutes to put the thing together because it's like I'm doing maki berry, I'm doing goji berry,

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing beetroot powder, I'm doing bone broth protein, I'm doing plant protein,

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing busway. I'm doing all kinds of stuff. So my point there is I'm very,

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: very conscious of my nutrition moving forward. I'm very conscious of my movement.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I realized that I need to strengthen my back and not injure my back.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, by the way, that's hard sometimes. I don't have a lot of meat on my... I need to put a lot

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_00]: of more meat on my multifidus and erectors. And so I'm doing the best I can in order to do that.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_00]: If you have tips, maybe I'll text you later, guys, and send them all my way because I know

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I should have reached out earlier. But again, I think that's the thing. I'm really trying to be...

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not lifting my weight for vanity now. I'm lifting weights because I want to be healthy

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_00]: into my 90s. I want to be able to walk. Listen, that's more than anything. When I was down and

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_00]: couldn't walk, I was like, man, I just want to go on a walk. And so that's the thing. I want to be

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_00]: in my 90s and walking and biking and swimming, even if it's super slow. I want to be doing that

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_00]: then. So I think having the mindset of long... Here's the thing. This would have been hard for

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_00]: me to hear in my 20s and 30s. Somebody to say, Josh, don't be doing triathlons and CrossFit at

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_00]: the same time and Olympic weightlifting. Don't do it. Now, that was so dumb. I wish I just would

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_00]: have been doing functional movement exercise the whole time. So this is a little bit of a ramp,

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_00]: but my point there is that I think that that was a lesson. And so now one of the things I'm doing,

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_00]: along with being grateful and prayerful, eating healthy, is being very, very conscious of and

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_00]: prioritizing functional movement and stability around those joints to protect them.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_04]: That's great. Yeah. I think that's a great point too,

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_04]: that there's a difference between recreational activity for... I don't want to say vanity sake,

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_04]: but I lifted very heavy weights and did Olympic lifting in college. And

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have any desire to do that because to me, it's like, I don't need to put 600 pounds on my

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_04]: back. Doing a 200-pound squat very functionally with great range of motion is helping me be the

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_04]: 80-year-old, the 90-year-old that I want to be still throwing my now grandkids or great grandkids 10

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_04]: feet in the air, because I want to be the grandpa who can do that. And I just think it's great that

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_04]: your answer about your own health situation reflects your recommendation for everyone else.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And you really are a practitioner who practiced what he preaches. When we were looking through

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_04]: your stuff prior to hopping on this interview, I saw something that you had posted that for

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_04]: the longest time you said food is medicine. Now you add to that mindset as medicine. And I think that

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_04]: through your own experience and the experience of many others, and physiology backs it up,

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_04]: that is definitely the case. I think we could add to that movement as medicine. And that is

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_04]: kind of the three-pronged answer you just gave. Making sure we are being conscious and aware and

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_04]: cognizant of what we're doing in all those different areas and finding the protocol

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_04]: that fits best for us. Yeah.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 100%.

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_04]: So Dr. Axe, thank you for being with us again, sharing your personal story.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_04]: It's amazing to hear, amazing to hear how far you've come already and we'll be excited to see you

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_04]: pop out at your 100% and go beyond that. Yes.

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Where can people go to learn more about you, get your book, and everything else?

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. The book is on amazon.com and bookstores nationwide. I'm excited to say it hit the New

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_00]: York Times Bestseller list. I think it's the best book I've read. And again, it's really into...

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to strengthen your mindset, find your purpose, your identity, really

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_00]: grow. I think it's a great book. You can get it on Amazon. It's called Think This, Not That.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_00]: You can search Josh Axe Think This, Not That. And then I have a podcast. It's called The Dr.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Josh Axe Show. It's more nutrition-focused, so a lot of natural medicine. We also cover some growth

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_00]: mindset medicine stuff, but that's it. Yeah. Dr. Josh Axe. It's on YouTube as well,

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_00]: as well as the podcast. The podcast is found in the socials at Dr. Josh Axe.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But thanks so much for having me, Dr. Dom, Dr. Jim. This was awesome. By the way,

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I love following you guys. Chelsea and I follow you both. And I was going to say,

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_00]: throwing your kids up in the air, sometimes I see you twirling Jen, throwing her up in the air too.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's always fun to watch your movement challenges. So anyways, it was an honor. So

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_00]: thanks so much for having me on. Thank you so much.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Such an incredible conversation and story that Josh Axe has lived. I hope that you enjoyed that.

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, check out his book. We're going to have it linked up in the show notes. And if

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_01]: heard something that you feel like could support someone else, maybe going through something really

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: tough right now, please pass this episode along and we'll see you back on another episode of

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: the Optimal Body Podcast. Transcribed by https://otter.ai