371 | Live Nourished & Drop The Diets With Registered Dietitian, Shana Spence

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Optimal Body Podcast.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Dr. Jen.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Dr. Dom.

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And we are doctors of physical therapy, bringing you the body tips and physical therapy pearls

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_03]: of wisdom to help you begin to understand your body, relieve your pains and restrictions,

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and answer your questions.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Along with expert guests, our goal of the Optimal Body Podcast is really to help you

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: discover what optimal means within your own body.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's dive in!

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So before we hop into this interview, I need to give my little plug for foot

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[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So excited for this next podcast with Shana Spencer's is an incredible conversation

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: with a registered dietitian nutritionist who's based in Brooklyn, New York.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: She currently works in public health with the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: doing community nutrition lessons and also runs her own company called the Nutrition

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: T. She describes herself as an all foods fit dietitian and creates a platform for

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: open discussion on nutrition and wellness topics that are inclusive, non-diet and

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: weight neutral, all with the intersectionality of social justice.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: She also writes frequently for publications such as Self Shape Outside and Well and

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Good magazines.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Now her debut book is out.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It is just released in August called Live Nourished.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have that linked up in the show notes.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Make peace with food, banish body shame and reclaim joy.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: This is an incredible conversation.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: She really goes into a lot that isn't just about diet.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is so incredibly important.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've asked a lot of important questions even as a mom now and what that looks like for me and my little.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So I hope that you enjoy this conversation.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Shana, thanks so much for coming to chat nutrition, food, diet a little bit with us today.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm really excited based on the content of yours I've seen online.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're going to have just an amazing message and approach to how food works into the overall picture of health.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you for having me.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm excited.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so when people are hearing this, they get to actually receive live nourished within their hands.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So you guys can go.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll have that linked up in the show notes.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But what I what I'm interested in hearing about from you with it is that you go a lot into diet culture.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would love to understand your take on what like where diet culture came from, what that what that term really means,

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_02]: because I think we've heard it thrown around social media quite a bit,

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but getting a clear understanding and a picture of like kind of its history and where it came from and what it means could really help if you could help us with that.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. Yeah, it's it's such a long stream or I should say a really long history.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But diet culture, it's you know, when we think about it today, we just think of a bunch of folks who are aspiring fitness.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Most people will call it health, but it's really more of an aesthetic, I think, in my opinion.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really a very large industry when you think about it.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I think when I wrote the book, it was seventy two billion.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably up now because it keeps you know, there will be more things added to it.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that it's just a desire of fitness.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a desire based on what society tells us to look like.

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think from history wise, if we go way back in time,

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: if we look at the start of, let's say, even the BMI,

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, that was that was from unfortunately a eugenist who imagined that every man and of course,

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that formula was only conducted on white men.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: He had an idea of what the average man should look like.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was thin, that was lean, and that sort of carried throughout history.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And so with a bunch of mixtures of, you know, pills and lots of weight loss things happening,

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: we now have diet culture, which is worth seventy two billion dollars.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a very large industry.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But that was like the brief history.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Interrupting this chat with Shanna real quick, which this is one of my favorite

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: conversations, so please stick around and listen.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I think what she said is vitally important.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: What I also believe is vitally important is getting support, especially,

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: especially during the prenatal time.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Our body is demanding so much from us because we have this little parasite growing inside

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that is taking a lot. And I had someone reach out like,

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: do you know of a prenatal that is super clean, that you would trust?

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, yeah, it's the prenatal that I'm taking myself.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I wouldn't talk about a company and a brand unless I was using it myself.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's something you have to understand.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And I promise, promise you, I will never talk about something.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not using myself and especially when it comes to pregnancy postpartum

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: or trying to conceive, this is the most important time in a woman's life.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And so this is what I'm going to be saying.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's so vitally important.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You are understanding what you're putting in your body

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and how you're supporting your body through this time.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I reached out to Needed.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: This is something I actually saw myself.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I loved what they were doing because they go above and beyond.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Like Needed really has radically better nutrition products, education,

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: advocacy based in clinical research and practical validation.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm telling you, they are dosed at optimal, not just bare minimum

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: levels, but optimal levels that your body needs.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And they go above and beyond with third party testing,

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[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So you really are getting clean, exactly what you need,

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: exactly what can support your body through this really trying time.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This is your body's going through so much when you're trying to conceive

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and when you're making a baby and when you're postpartum.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is why I trust Needed.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you haven't yet and you are in that space where you're maybe

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to conceive or you're postpartum or you're just feeling

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_02]: like there's something missing, like I cannot maintain my nutrition

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: at a level, maybe you're super stressed, you're working on something a lot

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and you need just that extra support within your body.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't just for prenatal. They have so much stuff.

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[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: that they have for men as well and support your body.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, let's hop back in.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and you bring up an incredible point, which I think permeates

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_04]: a lot of areas of health research is that a lot of this research

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_04]: was done primarily on men, primarily on white men.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And there are movements that are trying to change that

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_04]: so that we get a broader amount of research.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_04]: But it takes time, obviously.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And in the health space, we've gone too long trying to apply this research

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_04]: that was done on such a small subsection of the population to everyone.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, even in bringing up diet culture, you kind of are referencing

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_04]: like we all imagine this prototypical healthy person.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And when somebody hears that, what do they think of?

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_04]: They think of somebody who's slender, who has a muscular build.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Or if they're a man or if they're a woman, they're slender.

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_04]: They look athletic.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_04]: They have this certain aesthetic and that we are equating aesthetic to health.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And I like in a lot of your content how I see you talking about health

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_04]: or our health journey doesn't also have to equate to thinness or our weight.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_04]: But can you talk about why you think that's an important message?

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I often talk about it because I think it's so important

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: to make that distinction, you know, as a diet, I'm a dietician.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So, of course, there's nothing wrong with the word healthy or health.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I became a dietician for a reason.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that we often misuse the word

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because, like you just mentioned, we equate it with a body size.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And what I see happening a lot of times,

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I worked very briefly with some eating disorder clients,

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: but disordered eating really runs rampant in society.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that when I see someone talking about getting healthy,

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: they use tactics that are dangerous.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, eating disorders, there's I can't think of the number right now

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: off the top of my head, but it keeps increasing the age

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in which you see young girls and even young boys, too,

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: because we also tend to think it's only women.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not true.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: It keeps getting younger and younger, you know?

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a problem.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why I really try to make that distinction,

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_00]: because when someone talks about wanting to get healthy,

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I often want people to think about, well, what methods

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: are you going to go about doing that?

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Are we talking about trying to eat more vegetables

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: or are we talking about you restricting your eating habits

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: to the point where you can't physically and mentally function?

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Because those are two different things.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So I just you know, the whole point of I think my age

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and when I speak is just to make people think, hopefully,

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, about the situation.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_02]: 100 percent.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And can you kind of point out some of those tactics that you think?

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Because maybe someone's, you know, listening who has

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_02]: there's just so much out on the world social media

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: of what you should and should not do.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So how does someone know if they're falling into tactics

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that could be dangerous in terms of falling into some of those

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_02]: disordered eating patterns?

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that often just

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: restricting your food intake is a big one.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I notice that people and I get that we're all very busy

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and sometimes we do, you know, we forget about a meal

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and not forget, but we're just trying to work through.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes if we are purposely

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: skipping meals, that can be a red flag because our body,

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I say this all the time, calories are energy

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and our bodies are living forms that need energy in order to function.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're restricting to the point,

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: if you notice low energy all the time,

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I always tell people, do you need another cup of coffee

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: or do you maybe need some food?

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, things like that, or even just exercise.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Like exercise is great.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't get me wrong.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But if we are spending

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: for, you know, four hours at a time in the gym

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: or for going to the gym like three times a day.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I would start to question things, you know, I get that they're athletes.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I think that sooner

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Williams and like Michael Phelps, those types of, you know, folks,

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a little different for us everyday people.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that we need to be in the gym three times a day.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that maybe I would start to question things, you know, I

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I hesitate labeling things as an eating disorder.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So I always use the term disordered eating and disordered habits.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's just some things to think about, you know?

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So I notice those two are usually the top

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of red flags to maybe think about.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, to hammer home the point, bringing back in

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_04]: the aesthetic bit a little bit, we have friends who have had,

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, a history with physique competitions or bodybuilding or those types of

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_04]: those types of people who have or have had the bodies that we would see as,

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, they look perfect.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_04]: They look like the and they are very active in speaking out about how

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_04]: in order to get that physique, they had to be very restrictive.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_04]: They either went through counseling or,

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, different programs to fix their disordered eating patterns.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_04]: They they didn't feel like they were their healthiest self.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_04]: They actually felt like shit in a lot of in a lot of cases

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_04]: when they were at their peak physique.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it's great to have more people who are coming from

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_04]: or even live within the world of physique and bodybuilding competitions,

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_04]: speaking out and sharing that.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, you brought up some specifics about like,

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_04]: if you feel like you've skipped a meal or you're OK

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_04]: skipping meals and using this word restriction.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And one of the things that comes to my mind is time restricted eating or fasting.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah. Intermittent fasting and how how popular that is.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And there's been a lot of discussion around

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_04]: men versus women doing time restricted eating or fasting.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So can you talk about like, are there cases where it's

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_04]: quote unquote OK to use a time restricted eating strategy?

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that, you know, I

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I always say this, our bodies are very different.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going to say, you know, I'm not going to tell anyone not to do something.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not in your body, but I will say

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I think of fasting for, you know, folks who do it for religious

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: or spiritual reasons, or if you are about to maybe have surgery.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. And the doctor tells you don't eat or medication, something like that.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: To do it as a weight loss tool.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just another form of calorie restriction.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: When you think about it,

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, people will say and I believe them, you know, people say

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I've lost weight and I feel great, you know, all of these things.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you ask them what they did, it's just another form of calorie restriction.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, a lot of times it's not sustainable.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's when we get into the weight cycling.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And in my mind, I just think that it's another form

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: of trying to restrict the body when our body needs energy

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and, you know, not wanting to eat breakfast,

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, waiting to eat lunch and then wondering why,

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the term now is like food noise or have, you know,

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: feeling like you have an obsession with food.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you think about it, it's if you're not eating until noon purposely.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're going to be thinking about food.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I'm not personally a fan of that approach.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that there are ways to eat

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that really can help us and benefit us.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that we've sort of lost the joy in eating as a whole in society.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, so I won't say that I'm totally against fasting.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I do believe, you know, for folks who do it for certain reasons,

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: like I mentioned, the religious or spiritual reasons

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that's, you know, that's totally fine.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But to do it purposely for restriction purposes,

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little hesitant.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just say that. Yeah.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And what about, you know, because there is research

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of time-restricted feeding,

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of Vitophagy and someone saying, well, no,

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not necessarily going for calorie restriction.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to help myself and regenerate my body is like

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: how does that kind of work into it and how can someone say,

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to do this?

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, where would that work into?

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And, you know, I've heard I've heard those claims, too.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people even for folks, you know, to manage blood sugars,

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, for folks who have diabetes, I've heard them try that.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's quite it's quite interesting because with those certain

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_00]: illnesses or conditions, it's I don't really understand

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: how someone can see it as beneficial because, you know,

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: especially when you're managing blood sugars, it's good to eat consistently.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking about big lavish meals, but to eat consistently

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_00]: so your blood sugars don't spike and with the whole regenerating cell

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: that and feeling more energized again, a lot of times those studies,

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: they're not long term.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And what what you find, unfortunately, with things like that is that.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: In the long in the long run, it's not sustainable.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and unfortunately, I'm not saying it doesn't work

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00]: because I'm not going to, you know, put those claims out there.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But for many, they find themselves back where they started.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, when we're talking about something like weight loss,

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: weight cycling is also very harmful for the body

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: because it kind of does spike all of those things that's going on.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about like blood sugars.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that there are ways to eat

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: consistently that can help nourish us.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to look different for each person.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I will say that.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: But as far as really, you know, restricting on purpose

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: for all of these different reasons, I would take it with a grain of salt.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I would just be more mindful. Yeah.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. And you bring up another great point.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that diet culture has really contributed to significantly

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_04]: is that that yo-yo style dieting and that yo-yo weight fluctuation

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_04]: that people will see when they go on a time restricted

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_04]: or intermittent fast type diet or they go on whatever it is, paleo.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're like, yeah, it helped me lose the weight.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_04]: But after about 30 days, my body was starving.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_04]: My body, I could tell that I need and then they bounce right back.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And the fluctuations that might cause in your glucose,

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_04]: your blood glucose levels or different hormonal profiles can be,

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_04]: as you said, very harmful.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So let's work into the space of what more balanced eating looks like.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_04]: And something else I also see you talk a good amount about is

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_04]: good versus bad foods, processed foods and the demonization of anything

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_04]: processed packaged convenience and how that's bad and that needs to be eliminated.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_04]: And as I've seen from your content and based on what you've said already,

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm guessing that's not your message.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_04]: So where does that balance happen with convenience and packaged

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_04]: and processed foods versus introducing whole foods into the diet?

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that processed foods has become just a scary term in general.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And processed foods encompasses so many different food items.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. It's potato chips and cookies, but it's also like protein powders.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also plant based milk and all of these things.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think I just encourage people when we're talking about

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_00]: foods that may be to limit or, you know, be more mindful of.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I just encourage people to actually say the food instead of just saying

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: processed foods, because I think that's where the demonization comes in.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. But also, I think it's really interesting.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when we're talking about processed foods and people will say

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's becoming a dominant factor in like food production, which it is.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But I always tell people, well, why do you think that is?

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think we need processed food so much?

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Because there is a need for them.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of times where,

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, especially in this country, in the States, we tend to work a lot.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: We are encouraged, I think, a lot of times for people who have those office jobs.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I am also one of them.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I do usually work in an office.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you don't want to take a lunch break, right?

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You don't want to step away from your desk because you want to get your work done.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So what's quick and easy, you know, grabbing something that you can heat up.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you look at other countries, I remember where was I?

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was Ecuador I was in.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember like in the middle of the day, all the stores were closed,

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_00]: like all everything was closed because they were out to lunch.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like empty because they take their food very seriously.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So and we don't do that normally here.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that for packaged foods, there's a need for it because it kind of fits in

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: with our unfortunate like work culture, if you will.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And also, there's a need for them when we're talking about,

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, cereals, that's another demonized food.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of vitamins and minerals are added to them, right?

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They're enriched and fortified.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of the conditions that you used to see back in the day

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_00]: no longer exist because our foods are now fortified.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that, you know, when we're talking about processed foods,

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: do I encourage people to just eat potato chips all day

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_00]: or just like have a stash of frozen meals all the time?

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: No. But I at the same time, I think we need to recognize

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: why they're so prominent in society.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I will never call a food good or bad,

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_00]: to your other point, because of those reasons.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that there's a place for all foods, unless you're allergic to them.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. It's funny when you talk about places being closed at lunch,

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_04]: because here in the States, that's like annoying if you go to a shop.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I know. Exactly.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I felt a little guilty because when you said that

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_04]: we drop our dog off at this groomer and I went to pick her up,

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_04]: they said she'd be done in like an hour.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And I went to open the door and it was locked.

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And it said, our lobby will be closed from 12 to one for lunch.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, what?

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_04]: How dare you take time?

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_04]: How dare you take time to have lunch?

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. Exactly.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you expect someone like at their desk just like,

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, ready to open the door.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah, too funny.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I know. I mean, and it's it's hard.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Like even me as a mom, I can't even imagine being a single mom

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and working and having to provide for yourself and feed yourself

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: plus your kids or whoever else.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I really can't imagine that life.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And there has to be some convenience in that.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, someone might be able to stay up late and and batch all this food.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And and there maybe could be times right where that happens.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's hard.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's also what do you have access to and what do you have available?

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And but unlike in my mind, you know, I

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_02]: it's hard social media is out there.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So I see these things of like, oh, childhood cancers could happen

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_02]: if you ate this kind of way when you were pregnant or you.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, how do you get past the guilt

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: of putting these things within your body when at times you feel like

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that's all you have access to?

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But you don't want to have a genetics.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to like pass things down to your kids

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that aren't the best or aren't the healthiest.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So how do we kind of I guess, how do how do you put those

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_02]: into play within your life where you're trying to be healthy,

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_02]: but you're also just needing to live?

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And, you know, I always use this motto

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that is best.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I it usually applies to babies, of course.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think for any human,

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: especially, you know, as parents.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So I work with kids.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have kids myself, but I work with children

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and their parents often will come in a lot of times very frustrated

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: because they don't have access to these things that they see

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: on social media or even have time to cook these,

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, elaborate meals.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And I can understand that because you want to give your child the best.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. And it's very frustrating.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times, you know,

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: the child is an eating or they're they're only eat this one child.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: In particular, I'm thinking of he would only eat like goldfish crackers

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and something else.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I forget what. But it turns out, you know, he had like a food

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: sensitivity issue and a lot of times processed foods because they're

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: what is the word? Like they're the same.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't think of the word right now.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like right there produced to look the same and taste the same.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very familiar.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So as far as like having whole foods or fresh foods,

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it was a texture thing.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And the mom was so frustrated.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, right now, eating anything is best.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know, I know that's not comforting to hear.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. Because you want your kid eating broccoli and beets and all these things.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of the day, we want, you know, ourselves fed as well.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just I think a lot of times, you know,

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: just having grace with yourself and just figuring out things that will,

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, finding ways to work. Right.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I always talk about using canned foods,

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: frozen foods, you know, frozen vegetables,

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: canned vegetables are often looked down upon because they're not like fresh.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And I say that's still you're still getting nutrients.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, finding those shortcuts, if you need to take them,

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, is might have to be the option.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah. So I always say Fed is best.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And Fed is best.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I love that. And I'm thinking about our little 16 month old

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_04]: and how he's in a phase where one day he eats carrots

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_04]: and then the next day wants nothing to do with them.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And sometimes we'll just find ourselves putting four or five,

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_04]: six options in front of him.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And then eventually two of them.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_04]: He's like, OK, I can dig these two.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And then he eats them.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_04]: And they were like, great.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Now I get a bunch of leftover like fish bits and carrots that he didn't eat.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_04]: But and you bring up frozen bagged, canned vegetables and fruits.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And again, how the demonization even happens to these things,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_04]: which to me intuitively is just crazy because I'm like,

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_04]: if people are eating fruits and vegetables that they're eating

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: vegetables. Yeah. You think it'd be a good thing.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I've even heard the argument that bagged and canned fruits

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_04]: like can be better in many ways because they're picked at peak

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: freshness, generally where most of the nutrients still lives

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_04]: within the fruit or the vegetable itself.

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And then and people can store them for people who have some,

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, social determinants that don't allow them to have access

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_04]: to fresh fruit or vegetables or be able to go pick those up

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_04]: every two to three days.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_04]: So your berries aren't always going bad and all that kind of stuff

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_04]: that that you deal with with fresh foods.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And I know and respect that that's something you talk about a lot, too,

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_04]: is the social determinants of health and how that can really

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_04]: influence somebody's ability to maintain certain diets or maintain

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04]: certain food profiles.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I talk I feel like I'm a broken record because I always bring it up

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: because I think it's so important.

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I work in public health, so that's why I'm also very passionate

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_00]: about that topic.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And I I think I I talk about that

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and what's called healthism a ton because I see it so rampant.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So healthism is just this idea that health is in our control

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: completely as individuals.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you think about it, it's really not right.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we have genetics for sure,

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: but there are also these socioeconomic factors, right?

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times access to food is a big issue.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So I live in New York City.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And when you think of New York City, you think of all these options.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But there are food deserts within New York City, right?

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's also access to green spaces, safe places to walk around

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: housing. All of these things affect our health.

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And oftentimes they are out of our control because of systemic barriers.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that sometimes people forget that.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And so when we talk about wanting to or people should want to be healthier,

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that, you know, it it kind of is weird to me when I hear that,

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: because I think everyone wants to be, quote unquote, healthier.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just that are there barriers in place

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: that are preventing them to get there?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't think there's anyone who's like,

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_00]: no, I don't want to be healthy.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like I just I just think that oftentimes

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: people are frustrated at the system and they're frustrated

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe at the bias, you know, maybe received in health care or,

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, things like that.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's more of a frustration.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that anyone's saying that they don't care about themselves.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So I just think that it's important to recognize that and talk about it.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Very important. I mean, yeah.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And I and that's what's hard about social media is that all these things

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: will get thrown out there of like, don't eat this food or you should get

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: this, don't get this without taking into consideration

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: of what someone has available or has access to.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And and then you feel the guilt and the shame and like, oh, I'm not doing right.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm just going to do all the other things.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes it backfires.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It goes completely the other way.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, in a world where you don't want to fall into diet culture,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: but maybe you are a person who wants to lose weight.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you just feel like you have some excess weight

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that would be you'd feel healthier if you had it off.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_02]: How does someone go about a healthy way

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: for achieving fat loss that you kind of recommend

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_02]: going down without developing unhealthy behaviors or habits?

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that oftentimes with weight,

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: again, like people tend to look at more of the aesthetic

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_00]: of what's out there instead of how they actually feel.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I always say there's going to be body diversity out there.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that everyone is meant to be some version of thin.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think that there are ways for us to feel physically better.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think the issue that I see and this is because of diet culture

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: is, you know, that folks are aspiring to get to a certain number,

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: whether that's the number on a scale or the number on your clothes

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: or what have you, and often resorting to unsafe methods

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that come along with the weight cycling, which we had talked about.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I always tell people really think about how you feel.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel better eating in a certain way at a certain time,

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe for you versus doing another method?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel better doing

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_00]: one form of movement versus another?

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Like really. Try to tune into your body,

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: because often we're chasing an aesthetic and not really thinking about how we feel.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when people talk about, well, I want to lose weight.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And I always question, I'm just like, well, is it more

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you're chasing a number or is this you think you'll feel physically better,

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: like actual physically, you know?

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And it could be, you know, I'm not in anyone's body, I always say that.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, oftentimes I just feel like the desire

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: comes from an aesthetic wanting to look a certain way.

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you find that when you work with people?

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Because again, these thoughts are very much so ingrained in our psychology.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. And it's not something like you're an amazing educator.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_04]: You're an amazing provider, I assume, based on what I've seen.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very difficult to change someone's mind in the first consultation.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, same with us when we're talking about someone who's had pain for

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_04]: or talking to someone who's had pain for 20 or 30 years.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It's very tough for us to change their mind and their relationship.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_04]: So how like how long do you feel like it takes people to generally

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_04]: get that switch to flip in their mind to say, like, oh, wow,

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I have been focusing on the wrong thing.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Like how long for someone out there who's like, OK, I want to commit to that.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But there's just something that in my mind that keeps going back to,

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, I want to weigh this amount and look this certain way.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, is there a certain amount of time someone can expect

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_04]: for that flip switch to flip in their head or tools and techniques they can use?

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. No, it's hard because and you know,

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_00]: it also depends on the person because a lot of times

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll get folks who have already sort of made those steps

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: into trying to step away from those diet culture thoughts.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I remember one client I had.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_00]: She was talking about at first when we first started,

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: she was on that I want to weigh this amount.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to, you know, and I said, I don't focus on numbers.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to focus instead on behaviors. Right.

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all about the healthy behaviors.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: What can we add into your day?

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, more fruits and vegetables, more fiber, you know, whole grains,

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: all of that stuff versus getting to a certain number.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was difficult, right?

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, like you want to, you know, for most people,

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_00]: they want to aspire to get to like a certain number.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And her goal, as she, you know, later just close to me,

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_00]: she said, I want to have more energy because my son really likes hiking.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, right now, I don't have the energy.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, OK, so how about we and, you know, again,

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a personal trainer, but, you know, what movement are you doing?

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: How can you maybe increase that?

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can eat, you know, different foods for different,

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, energy needs and kind of shifting that focus instead of just

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be thin in order to hike because you don't have to be thin

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: in order to hike, you know, but I do imagine wanting more stamina.

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you really kind of dig deeper, you find that that's

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of real reasons there.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00]: But everyone's different, like with her, it took like, you know,

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_00]: it took a few weeks for others.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It might not happen because diet culture is very hard to

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_00]: very hard to let go of. I will say that, you know,

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_00]: so everyone's on a different journey for sure.

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I think it's hard to I've heard so many people who say,

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, I went to my doctor and it's not even social media.

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to my doctor and I was told that I should lose weight.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, it's it's this pressure then of I just need to lose weight,

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, and that's my only focus because that's all I've been told

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: rather than what are what are the root like,

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: what is really the root of what I want to feel within my body,

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_02]: like what you're getting to, which I think is is really

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: so important and something that I always have to remind myself to,

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: especially after having a baby.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, what am I trying to achieve within my body?

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not trying to look a certain way.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to feel a certain way and what will help me get there.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So can you go over some kind of like you talked about healthy habits

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that you like to, you know, try to get people to include?

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Can you go through like a day structure of what people can

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_02]: like start to add in to build into those kind of healthier habits?

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And, you know, I'm a big fan of adding in versus,

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, thinking what I call the subtraction mind,

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: which is really just restriction,

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_00]: because when you look at a lot of the diets out there,

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_00]: it's very interesting because like some will tell you not to eat these foods.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, why? You know,

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and, you know, and different vegetables will be on that list.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's it's just really kind of mind blowing sometimes.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm all about adding.

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think that as a dietitian,

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: people definitely need to be eating more fiber.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how can we add that in? Right.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_00]: How can we incorporate more vegetables throughout your day?

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, that might include canned vegetables or frozen

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: vegetables that might include that.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe it's I find that with the vegetables, since I'm on the topic.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that a lot of times people don't like them

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: because they're not cooking them right. Right.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how can we add flavor to your foods?

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's a big thing.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you're just steaming vegetables like, yeah, it's not going to be exciting.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So how can we do that?

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_00]: How can we add more things to your day?

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_00]: How can we incorporate more movement?

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And we may be when we're on breaks, please take a break for work.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can go for a walk if it's you know, if you have access to that.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you can find something that you like doing after work.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot of times we feel this peer pressure to do like the latest

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: fitness class that our friends are doing, but we're really not into.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not into that type of movement, you're not going to keep doing it.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe find something that you really enjoy.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, things like that, I think, are important.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, maybe looking at stress is a big thing.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So I should have started with stress because I often think that

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_00]: that is a huge factor for health in general.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Stress affects our body like physically.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think that oftentimes it's overlooked.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So really trying to work on stress management,

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_00]: definitely easier said than done, you know, given given society,

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_00]: definitely easier said than done.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But I often think that stress is overlooked.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So those are usually my top three, along with getting more sleep, of course,

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: which is also easier said than done.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm working on that myself.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But those are usually the things that I like to talk about.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_00]: To get started.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I love those. And I love the mentality of adding in rather than taking out like,

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, because that restrictive mindset is just not sustainable.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not. Yeah.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think what you bring up at the end there,

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_04]: it's kind of the crazy thing.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And you might be able to relate to this becoming a provider.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Like we went into physical therapy because we were interested in movement.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_04]: You went into dietetics because you're interested in nutrition.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But often when I was when we were working in the clinic,

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_04]: often I felt like a psychologist, like, yes, you know.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's crazy to me how regardless of what area of health you're working in,

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_04]: you need those psychological skills like we don't call ourselves

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_04]: psychologists, but we need to be able to sit there and be with the person.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's unfortunately the aspect that has been getting taken out

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_04]: of our Western style of medicine is the ability for a provider to sit there

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_04]: for any amount of time, longer than 10 minutes and actually hear someone

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and see them and be there with them.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And the value I have let people talk in the room for 30 minutes.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Later on, I've gotten yelled at by my clinical instructor

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_04]: because I just let them talk. Right.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And afterwards, they've told me like, man, that was that session

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_04]: was like nothing I've ever experienced before.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And I did nothing. Yeah.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Let them talk. You know, you listen.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_00]: That's something. Yeah. And it's event. Yeah.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_04]: It's amazing how big that is.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And this is a little bit of a soapbox, but like how we need to inject

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_04]: psychology back into our work with people in the nutrition realm

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_04]: and in the and the movement space and how you're consulting with people

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_04]: and how they can get that movement back into their life.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so much more interconnected than we want to admit.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And we're unfortunately moving away from that

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_04]: in how our health system continues to evolve.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: 100 percent. I think I think it's so important because

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_00]: we have our dietitian group chats and I always say,

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like it's funny you brought that up because I always think about

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: like going back to school and getting some sort of like psychology

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: or maybe just taking a course because I do sometimes,

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, we have to use the skills when we're talking to people

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and we feel like we're not doing anything, but sometimes just talking,

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: talking things out and listening, you know, because people

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: have not been heard before.

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, oftentimes they'll go to a doctor or maybe another therapist,

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_00]: physical therapist or another dietitian, and they've been dismissed.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And to have someone actually pay attention and listen is a big thing for them.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it's it's really interesting.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_04]: That story you brought up earlier about the mom who was so focused

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_04]: on the weight, but eventually you got to the point of, oh,

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_04]: you want to go on hikes with your son.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that really reminded me of I don't know if you've heard

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_04]: of motivational interviewing. Yes.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But it's essentially waiting for them to tell you the thing

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_04]: that they actually care about, that is like that underlying factor.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think every provider I went to a motivational interviewing course

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_04]: early on and it just pinged for me like they're going to eventually

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_04]: tell me what they need. It's not about the pain.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_04]: There's other things that are more important to them

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: that they're not focused on.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, that's super important people to draw to people.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, with your book, you know, I know, I mean, live nourished,

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_02]: who doesn't want to live nourished.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the goal that we're trying to get to feel

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_02]: something different within our body.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: What is your goal with what you want people to get out of this book?

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_00]: My goal is really just for people to not think about restrictions so much.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And I even always say, yes, I'm a dietician, but I'm not the food police.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to judge you for what you're eating.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: If you have questions, of course, I believe in trying to find ways

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to make things work.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But my goal is really for us as a whole to find ways

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_00]: to nourish ourselves that actually work.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're all different.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there is no one size fits all.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And I will say like my book might not be for everybody, right?

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's you know, there's what, eight billion people in the world.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very hard.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that as a whole, when I think of nourishment,

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I think of how we can eat and also our lifestyle,

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_00]: how we can figure out those things in order for our bodies to function

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and for us to kind of live day to day.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think what's happening now, I don't see it as being sustainable

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_00]: with a lot of the fad diets that are out there.

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it's doing more harm than good.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when I think of nourishment, I just think of really finding

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_00]: that happy place for our bodies.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: That's beautiful.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited for the book.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, again, we're going to have it linked up and all your information.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know you have your your website, your blogs, your

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_02]: do you want to talk about?

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's all going to be linked up.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But do you want to talk about where people can find you?

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm pretty easy to find.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So The Nutrition Tea, and that's my social handle for pretty much everything.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Website is also The Nutrition Tea.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And I also have a newsletter from Substack,

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_00]: which is The Nutrition Tea, so I'm very easy to find.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect. Awesome.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Shana, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and continue to be a force working to shift that paradigm

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_04]: in food and in health in general.

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_04]: We appreciate your time.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thank you so much for having me.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for sticking around for another interview.

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely loved Shana's approach on food, diet, nutrition

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_04]: and just health in general.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Such a breath of fresh air.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_04]: If you enjoyed that episode, please consider passing it along

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_03]: to a friend or family member and leaving a rating and review

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_03]: on your favorite podcasting platform.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Also remember we have a free week trial that you can take

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_04]: on our GenHealth platform if you're looking for solutions

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_04]: for aches, pains and just movement in general.

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_04]: We have what you're looking for on Gen.Health.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Go to Gen.Health backslash free trial and start your free trial today.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_04]: And of course, we will see you next time on the Optimal Body Podcast.