🚀 New Episodes Available Weekly!
335 | Why Whole30 and How to Set Healthy Boundaries with Melissa Urban
The Optimal BodyDecember 18, 2023
335
00:49:3245.35 MB

335 | Why Whole30 and How to Set Healthy Boundaries with Melissa Urban

Is Whole30 for you? In this episode with Melissa Urban, Co-Founder of Whole 30, we embark on a journey of self-discovery and empowerment, exploring the intricate details of the Whole30 diet and beyond. We engage in a thought-provoking conversation on the self-experimentation versus elimination mindset, as well as the re-introduction phase of the diet taking centre stage. We dissect this crucial aspect, shedding light on the importance of reintroducing foods and the impact it can have on your overall health. Furthermore, we emphasize the significance of reading labels, uncover the hidden truths behind food labels and learn how this practice can empower you to make informed dietary choices. Then, we explore the concept of Food Freedom while still aspiring for the results of the Whole30, evaluate whether one can stick to a Whole30 diet in the long run, and dive into the accountability factor and the power of the Group Whole30 experience. Finally, we discuss creating healthy boundaries without significantly changing your relationships with others and uncover why it's crucial to speak openly about concussions. Let's dive in!


VivoBarefoot Discount:

Your feet have the components they need to support themselves! That's why we love ⁠⁠VivoBarefoot⁠⁠ because the shoes themselves help us gain mobility and strength in our feet. Live that barefoot life in style, choose VivoBarefoot and use code ⁠⁠TOB at checkout to get 15% off⁠⁠! Your foot and body will thank you (affiliate link)!

**Vivo offers a 100-Day trial period. If you are not completely satisfied, you can send the shoes back and get a refund.


LMNT Discount Code:

Fuel every system within the body and the brain with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LMNT⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Keep yourself hydrated on a cellular level by replenishing the sodium, potassium, and magnesium that our body needs for basic cellular processes like nerve signalling, smooth muscle contractions, unnecessary fatigue, aches and pain, brain fog, and recovery! Get a free gift with every purchase and try some new flavours as you stay hydrated! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get Your Free Gift!⁠⁠⁠⁠

 

What You Will Learn in This Interview with Melissa Urban⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠:

3:38 - Where did this concept of whole 30 come in?

6:51 - Self-experiment vs Elimination mindset?

9:30 - Re-introduction phase of the diet.

12:01 - Reading labels.

17:21 - Food Freedom while wanting the results of the whole 30.

20:38 - Can you stick to a whole30 diet?

23:17 - Accountability factor & Group Whole 30.

26:15 - Creating healthy boundaries.

29:31 - Is expressing a need selfish?

31:41 - How to create boundaries without significantly changing dynamics with others?

36:13 - Setting clear and not wishy-washy boundaries?

39:21 - Why we need to speak on concussions.

43:19 - Invisible Illnesses.

46:00 - Where can we learn more about concussions?

47:55 - Learn more from Melissa.


To learn more about Melissa Urban⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and view full show notes, please visit the full website here:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.docjenfit.com/podcast/episode335⁠


Thank you so much for checking out this episode of The Optimal Body Podcast. If you haven’t done so already, please take a minute to⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ subscribe⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and leave a quick rating and review of the show!


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

[00:00.000 --> 00:11.680] Welcome to the Optimal Body podcast. I'm Dr. Dom, and we are Doctors of Physical Therapy, [00:11.680 --> 00:16.080] bringing you the body tips and physical therapy pearls of wisdom to help you begin to understand [00:16.080 --> 00:19.840] your body, relieve your pains and restrictions, and answer your questions. [00:19.840 --> 00:24.840] Along with expert guests, our goal of the Optimal Body podcast is really to help you discover [00:24.840 --> 00:29.360] what optimal means within your own body. Let's dive in! [00:29.360 --> 00:33.040] You know that we have been talking about, especially if you've been listening to this [00:33.040 --> 00:38.800] podcast, Vivo Barefoot Shoes, and it's something that Dom and I have been wearing for four years, [00:38.800 --> 00:44.960] maybe more now at this point. And now that we have our little son, we actually have the [00:44.960 --> 00:50.640] plume knit toddlers for him because these are their first walkers. I'm so excited that Vivo Barefoot [00:50.640 --> 00:56.320] finally has some first walkers that I feel good about putting my son in because they're flexible, [00:56.320 --> 01:02.560] wide, they give him the toe space to naturally be able to use his foot as he should. And this [01:02.560 --> 01:06.720] isn't just for kids, right? This is for adults. Now that I have experienced wearing these shoes [01:06.720 --> 01:12.880] for so long, it really feels so significantly different and uncomfortable to wear any quote-unquote [01:12.880 --> 01:17.520] regular shoes. So if you haven't experienced Vivo Barefoot Shoes, even if you're just gonna [01:17.520 --> 01:22.000] get him for running errands, walking around, doing workouts, you don't need to run in these, [01:22.000 --> 01:29.360] you don't need to, all of a sudden go zero to 100, but starting to get your foot in a more natural [01:29.360 --> 01:35.280] shoe is really going to help to build that natural mobility and strength that plays a role up [01:35.280 --> 01:41.600] the whole body. So if you haven't yet, use code TOB at checkout. This is a special 15% discount [01:41.600 --> 01:48.400] only for our podcast listeners. I don't give this anywhere else. So use code TOB and you get 15% off [01:48.400 --> 01:52.480] of your purchase of Vivo Barefoot. We are so excited to bring you this next interview. It is [01:52.480 --> 01:57.360] someone that Jen has known for a while and we've been wanting to get her on the podcast forever. [01:57.360 --> 02:03.360] We have Melissa Urban, who is the co-founder and CEO of Whole30 and an authority on helping people [02:03.360 --> 02:08.720] create lifelong healthy habits. She is a seven time New York Times bestselling author, including [02:08.720 --> 02:13.520] the instant bestseller, the book of boundaries debuting at number three. She has been featured [02:13.520 --> 02:19.520] by the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, People, Forbes, Good Morning America, and CNBC [02:19.520 --> 02:24.800] is the host of the Do The Thing podcast and is a prominent keynote speaker on boundaries, [02:24.800 --> 02:30.320] building community, health trends, and entrepreneurship. She lives in Salt Lake City, Utah. [02:30.320 --> 02:36.400] In this episode, we cover so much from the Whole30 diet forming those lifelong healthy habits, [02:36.400 --> 02:41.520] being able to set clear boundaries and even some concussion awareness. So make sure you [02:41.520 --> 02:46.240] have your notepad ready and let's get to it. Melissa, thank you so much for taking the time [02:46.240 --> 02:52.800] to be here with us. I have admired your work for so long, especially being someone who [02:53.440 --> 02:59.200] has done Whole30 a few times myself and it felt like the only thing that I was able to [02:59.200 --> 03:05.760] do consistently and actually feel a huge benefit from. So it's just something that I've admired [03:05.840 --> 03:12.080] your work for so long and now especially diving into more boundaries and how to set boundaries and [03:12.080 --> 03:16.960] what that really looks like. I mean, your work has been just something I've really admired. So [03:16.960 --> 03:21.520] thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Oh, Jen, it's really exciting to chat. You and [03:21.520 --> 03:26.960] I've chatted a bunch before, but it's great to be here formally and have a good hour-long conversation [03:26.960 --> 03:32.160] for the podcast or however long it takes. So I just want to start from the beginning on where this [03:32.160 --> 03:40.000] whole concept of Whole30 came from. Yeah, you know, it started as a two-person self-experiment. [03:40.000 --> 03:45.280] I was very heavily invested in CrossFit. I owned my own CrossFit gym. I was traveling for the CrossFit [03:45.280 --> 03:51.520] kettlebell certifications and writing for the CrossFit journal. And I was sitting with some friends [03:51.520 --> 03:56.640] after a really difficult Olympic lifting session at CrossFit Boston. And we were talking about a [03:56.640 --> 04:01.440] nutrition seminar that a bunch of us had attended put on by a friend of ours, Rob Wolff. [04:02.080 --> 04:05.520] And at the end of the seminar, Rob was like, you know, just kind of give this [04:06.080 --> 04:11.440] 30-day whole food, kind of meat, seafood, and eggs, vegetables, and fruit thing. Give it a try for [04:11.440 --> 04:16.880] 30 days and see how it goes. And I was really invested in my athletic performance and recovery. [04:16.880 --> 04:21.280] And you know, the information we heard at the seminar happened to jive really well with some [04:21.280 --> 04:27.280] research that my co-founder was doing into potential inflammatory factors of certain foods, particularly [04:27.280 --> 04:32.080] legumes and grains. And so sitting around, you know, he was like, what if we did this [04:32.080 --> 04:37.760] super squeaky clean, kind of 30-day whole food experiment? And I was eating thin mints right out [04:37.760 --> 04:41.520] of the box when he said this, just straight out of the sleeve, because I had just exercised, [04:41.520 --> 04:46.400] and I had earned them. But I was only for a challenge. And I was like, yeah, let's give it a try. You [04:46.400 --> 04:50.800] know, when do you want to start? And he said, how about right now? And I gave my thin mints to my [04:50.800 --> 04:56.880] friends, Zach? And that was really the start of what was to become the first whole 30. Wow. [04:58.960 --> 05:03.280] Taking a quick pause from this interview, that's absolutely packed with nutrition and diet [05:03.280 --> 05:08.560] information to talk about something that Jen and I do to really focus on one of the foundational [05:08.560 --> 05:13.840] components of health. And that is our hydration, not just drinking water, but making sure we're [05:13.840 --> 05:18.880] getting the electrolytes back in and replacing those electrolytes that we lose throughout the day. [05:18.880 --> 05:25.600] And we do this with elements, electrolyte, drink mix. It has the sodium, magnesium, and potassium [05:25.600 --> 05:30.800] that you lose throughout the day. And I really can't overstate the importance of sodium and magnesium [05:31.360 --> 05:35.840] in all of the processes of our body. It is something that we really need to have enough of to make sure [05:35.840 --> 05:41.280] that ourselves, our muscles, and everything is functioning at tip-top shape. Making sure that [05:41.280 --> 05:46.400] you're getting in enough magnesium can help with things like brain fog, fatigue, digestion, [05:46.400 --> 05:52.560] muscle cramps, sleep at night, so many things that can help regulate when you are getting [05:52.560 --> 05:56.320] and replacing those electrolytes. So go down to the link in the show notes and make sure you check [05:56.320 --> 06:04.480] out drink element. That's lmnt.com backslash optimal. You get a free sample pack with every single order [06:04.480 --> 06:08.640] so that you can try out all their different flavors and know what flavor you want when you come back [06:08.640 --> 06:13.920] to inevitably get more. Jen and I love it. It tastes great and it keeps us coming back to our [06:13.920 --> 06:17.920] water bottle throughout the day to make sure we're staying hydrated and we're getting our [06:17.920 --> 06:21.200] electrolytes in. Check out the link in the show notes and get your free sample pack today. [06:23.120 --> 06:29.600] I mean, that in and of itself, I feel like it's a hard feat for some people to say, okay, [06:29.600 --> 06:36.480] I'm going and I'm eating cookies right now and I'm going to make this switch to now just for the [06:36.480 --> 06:43.440] next 30 days. I can't touch these cookies anymore and I can only do this and it kind of [06:43.440 --> 06:50.880] pulls in that all or nothing mentality. So how do you mentally kind of switch into this is okay [06:50.880 --> 06:55.040] to do and I can get back to cookies at a later time? Or like, how does that work? [06:56.400 --> 07:05.440] Well, okay, so back then, this was 2009. I really, I think the key to the whole 30 still today is [07:05.440 --> 07:12.640] I didn't look at it as deprivation. I didn't look at it as restriction. I didn't look at it as [07:13.440 --> 07:17.920] I have to give these things up forever. I really looked at it as a self experiment. [07:18.480 --> 07:26.400] What if for 30 days I've shifted my diet and I avoided the foods that the literature suggested [07:26.400 --> 07:31.760] can be problematic for some people. What would happen? Specifically, I was interested in my athletic [07:31.760 --> 07:37.280] performance and recovery. But what I discovered was that those foods were also having an enormous [07:37.360 --> 07:45.760] impact on my energy, my sleep, my mood, my digestion in particular. So I didn't go into it thinking, [07:45.760 --> 07:50.160] I'm never going to eat these foods forever. And I didn't have a diet mentality. I didn't count [07:50.160 --> 07:56.480] calories. I didn't restrict calories. I still ate to satiety. But at the end of the experiment, [07:56.480 --> 08:02.720] A, I felt so much better, better than I'd ever felt in my whole life that I knew that I would [08:02.720 --> 08:09.600] never go back to my old way of eating completely. But then B, when I started to reintroduce those [08:09.600 --> 08:14.560] foods that I really missed, like the thin mints and the yogurt and the white rice, [08:15.200 --> 08:20.080] I quickly figured out that some of those foods didn't agree with me. And now I had to figure out [08:20.080 --> 08:24.880] how to include them in my diet in a way that still left me feeling good if I was really that [08:24.880 --> 08:30.800] invested in them. Or I just decided it's not really a delicious treat if it makes me feel [08:30.800 --> 08:36.960] this terrible. And it was easy to just say goodbye to that food. So that was the mentality [08:36.960 --> 08:42.880] that I took around it. And I found that I didn't really struggle. Because during reintroduction, [08:42.880 --> 08:48.160] I quickly discovered which foods I could tolerate, even in small doses and still enjoy the stuff that [08:48.160 --> 08:53.520] I loved, and which ones really did not agree with me. And it was pretty easy to say goodbye. [08:54.640 --> 08:59.920] I think that's one of the most empowering things about doing a diet like the whole 30 is [09:00.400 --> 09:04.960] people start to feel empowered by their food choices because they start to develop that sense [09:04.960 --> 09:11.520] of interoception or that quote, intuitive eating type concept where it's like, oh, I ate this way, [09:11.520 --> 09:17.280] I felt this way. Oh, I ate that product, which used to be a staple in my diet. And I feel like, [09:18.720 --> 09:24.400] how do you kind of guide people when they go through the whole 30? Is there guidance on reintroduction [09:24.400 --> 09:29.680] of foods after the 30 days? Oh, yes, that's a huge part of our program. I know [09:29.680 --> 09:35.600] it's called the whole 30, but the program itself takes about 45 days to complete if you count [09:35.600 --> 09:41.760] elimination and reintroduction. And whole 30 at its heart is an elimination diet. And every single [09:41.760 --> 09:48.240] elimination diet has those two phases, elimination and reintroduction. So we set the stage like before [09:48.240 --> 09:52.800] people even sign up for the whole 30, where like, here's what your path looks like. It's going to be [09:52.800 --> 09:58.240] these two phases. Our whole 30 timeline walks you through what you'll experience in each of those [09:58.320 --> 10:03.440] phases, including reintroduction. We have a complete reintroduction schedule with [10:03.440 --> 10:08.400] the groups and the foods that you reintroduce and when and you go back to the elimination phase [10:08.400 --> 10:14.000] for a few days in between. So if you do have any negative consequences or negative symptoms, [10:14.000 --> 10:18.560] you can allow those to settle down before you reintroduce the next food group. It really is [10:18.560 --> 10:24.640] structured like a scientific experiment. But what it's designed to do is, as you just said, [10:24.640 --> 10:30.880] put the power back into people's hands. These are people, I mean, we are all people who have been [10:31.520 --> 10:38.400] told by the diet industry, this is how everyone should eat and foods are demonized as good or bad [10:38.400 --> 10:44.000] and different foods fall in and out of favor with the media cycle, carbs are good, carbs are bad, [10:44.000 --> 10:49.920] butters good, butters bad. And we lose sight, we lose touch with our bodies own natural [10:50.880 --> 10:57.280] signals, hungry, full, craving. When should I eat? How often should I eat? Because we allow [10:57.280 --> 11:03.040] other diets that tell us their one size fits all dictate what and when and how much we should be [11:03.040 --> 11:09.200] eating. And the whole 30 earns all of that over on its head and puts the power back in your hands [11:09.200 --> 11:15.120] to reconnect with your body and your food and make the decisions that you think work best for you and [11:15.200 --> 11:20.160] your unique context. And I think that's the that was my favorite part about it as well. [11:20.720 --> 11:26.560] I didn't count calories. I was able to eat as much as I wanted to. And I really started to discover [11:27.280 --> 11:35.680] like, oh, wow, I have zero bloating right now. Or when I reintroduce certain foods, I find I [11:35.680 --> 11:42.560] bloat or found my nose got stuffy even or like different foods really had a major effect. And [11:42.560 --> 11:49.360] it was the first time I really started to understand reading labels to because I think that's another [11:49.360 --> 11:56.160] great thing about what whole 30 really opens your eyes to is what is in this food though that you're [11:56.160 --> 12:03.760] consuming, especially if it's that quick grab and go snack. And so how can someone who feels like [12:04.320 --> 12:10.960] maybe they're a busy mom or they're doing a lot like, how can they feel like I have [12:11.520 --> 12:18.480] the tools and the power to be able to eat more whole real foods and be able to actually sustain [12:18.480 --> 12:25.200] that for 30 days. So, you know, I guarantee every single person listening has already had a whole [12:25.200 --> 12:31.200] 30 meal. If you wake up in the morning and for breakfast, you have eggs and bacon and sweet potato [12:31.200 --> 12:36.560] hash and a side of avocado, that's a whole 30 meal. If for dinner, you grill a steak and a bunch [12:36.560 --> 12:40.960] of veggie kebabs and you have mashed potatoes on the side, that's a whole 30 meal. You don't [12:40.960 --> 12:47.280] have to over complicate it. During the elimination phase, which is 30 days, you are eliminating [12:47.840 --> 12:53.920] a lot of food groups and that list may be intimidating. But I like to focus on what you are eating for [12:53.920 --> 13:00.800] those 30 days, meat, seafood and eggs, vegetables and fruit, herbs and spices and seasonings, natural [13:00.800 --> 13:05.760] healthy fats. You don't have to cook from fancy recipes. You don't have to buy a bunch of [13:05.760 --> 13:11.920] convenience products. You can just put ingredients on a plate and cover it with a dressing or sauce [13:12.480 --> 13:18.480] and let that be good enough. We have so many free recipes. We have so many whole 30 approved [13:18.480 --> 13:23.040] partners where if you're at the grocery store and you just see the whole 30 approved logo [13:23.040 --> 13:28.320] on a salad dressing or a ketchup or a mustard, you know it's automatically compatible with the [13:28.320 --> 13:33.600] program. We've got ingredient meal templates where you don't even need a recipe. We have [13:33.600 --> 13:39.360] a meal delivery service nationwide that will send your whole 30 meals straight to your doorstep [13:39.360 --> 13:46.080] every single week for those busy days or weeknight dinners. We have so many resources at this point [13:46.080 --> 13:52.000] to help anybody, whether you have any kitchen experience or not, succeed with the elimination [13:52.000 --> 13:58.800] phase, especially knowing it's only 30 days. Yeah, I think at this point you have been able to [13:58.800 --> 14:05.200] eliminate a lot of the excuses of no time or I don't cook or this or that with all the things [14:05.200 --> 14:12.800] that you just listed off. But returning back to handing over the thin mints from the time the [14:12.800 --> 14:19.440] thin mints were handed over to now the point that there is the whole 30 approved label on bottles [14:19.440 --> 14:26.400] and the meal service and I mean it's a nationally worldwide known brand. If people have dabbled at [14:26.400 --> 14:34.480] all in diet or nutrition online, you've heard of whole 30. How did this thing take hold and why [14:34.480 --> 14:41.600] do you think it blew up so much? Yeah, I mean again, you know, my story started in 2009 so it's [14:41.600 --> 14:49.600] been 14 years at this point. And when I had such an incredibly life transforming experience, [14:49.600 --> 14:55.040] not just with my energy and sleep and mood and digestion, but my relationship with food and my [14:55.040 --> 15:01.200] relationship with my body were radically transformed by my first full 30. I describe it as getting [15:01.200 --> 15:08.160] off the scale and out of the mirror for the first time in my whole life. And it felt so good that I, [15:08.160 --> 15:12.960] you know, said to my friend a week or two after I finished, this was such an amazing experience. [15:12.960 --> 15:16.720] If I wrote about it, do you think people would want to do it? When she said, yeah, I think some [15:16.720 --> 15:21.920] people would be interested. So I wrote about it on my little CrossFit training blog and maybe 100 [15:22.000 --> 15:27.680] people decided to join in in July and I led them through the comments, you know, through the program [15:27.680 --> 15:35.040] and answered their questions. And when they came back with equally stunning, remarkably similar [15:35.040 --> 15:39.360] results, that was the moment when I was like, Oh, this is something, right? When one person has [15:39.360 --> 15:45.360] an awesome experience, it's like a cool anecdote. But when 100 people have a remarkably similar and [15:45.360 --> 15:50.800] equally stunning experience, you know, that's something else. And so we started traveling to [15:50.800 --> 15:55.680] CrossFit gyms, talking about the whole 30, because again, we were connected to the community, [15:55.680 --> 16:04.000] we created an ebook helping people kind of understand the program and how to do it. And I think it really [16:04.000 --> 16:09.360] grew via word of mouth. We didn't have anything really to sell anybody for a very long time. We [16:09.360 --> 16:14.880] didn't do any marketing, we didn't do any advertising, but cross whole 30 is kind of like CrossFit, [16:14.880 --> 16:19.600] where people got into it and it was so incredibly transformational that they could not stop talking [16:19.600 --> 16:24.480] about it. They talked about it with everybody or people would say to them, what have you been doing? [16:24.480 --> 16:29.760] Like you look amazing, you seem so much more energetic. Your skin is glowing. What have you [16:29.760 --> 16:35.760] been doing? And people said it was whole 30. And that's really where it started is just via word [16:35.760 --> 16:42.720] of mouth. That's amazing. And you know, what's also cool is that you're starting to see these [16:42.720 --> 16:49.360] changes in people where without having to do formal testing, without having to necessarily [16:50.160 --> 16:56.640] always go and get that extra step or you spend that extra money, you know, you're able to start [16:56.640 --> 17:02.880] to understand it within your own body and actually see the changes, not only from like weight loss [17:02.880 --> 17:07.920] or anything, but maybe no more bloating, no more acne, no more, you know, all these [17:08.880 --> 17:14.000] inner changes that are happening without necessarily having to test it all. And I think that is [17:14.560 --> 17:21.680] such a cool experience. But you know, I want to tap into a little bit more of the idea of food [17:21.680 --> 17:27.920] freedom. Once you have completed the full 45 days and you're starting to reintroduce something like, [17:27.920 --> 17:33.840] how do you start to understand like, I want to feel this way, but I also want to go out with my [17:33.840 --> 17:40.400] friends. I also want to not feel like I'm restricting myself. So how do you start to implement a food [17:40.400 --> 17:45.840] freedom with still wanting to feel the results that you did after the full whole 30? [17:46.640 --> 17:52.240] Yes. So, you know, food freedom, what we call life after your whole 30, where you take what you've [17:52.240 --> 17:58.080] learned during elimination and reintroduction, and you apply that to the rest of your diet to create [17:58.080 --> 18:04.400] a sustainable personalized, joyful diet that lets you eat the foods that you love, foods that are [18:04.400 --> 18:09.040] family favorites or culturally significant, or that are just so delicious, you don't want to be [18:09.040 --> 18:15.440] without them, and still feel as good as you want to feel. And that is a highly individual [18:16.080 --> 18:23.360] process. No two people's food freedom looks the same. And even my food freedom varies on a regular [18:23.360 --> 18:28.880] basis based on what I have going on in my life this season, the foods that are available to me, [18:28.880 --> 18:35.520] my health goals, my context. So what I tell people is that food freedom is the practice of [18:35.520 --> 18:41.120] essentially bringing these foods back into your life in a way that still leaves you feeling your [18:41.120 --> 18:47.120] best. So if you discover that gluten, like with me, gluten leaves me a little bit bloated and I might [18:47.200 --> 18:54.080] break out, but it's not really that bad of a reaction. So in my day to day life, if I'm presented [18:54.080 --> 18:59.600] with a gluten containing ingredient that's like not that special, and it just doesn't seem that worth [18:59.600 --> 19:04.320] it, I'll probably pass, right? If I have the option for a gluten-free bun on my burger, I'm going to [19:04.320 --> 19:11.440] take that because a burger bun is just not particularly worth it, given the potential consequences. Or [19:11.440 --> 19:15.760] if I have a media event coming up, and I know I want to look my best and feel my most confident, [19:15.760 --> 19:19.200] I'm not going to eat gluten in the week leading up to it because I know I'm going to break out. [19:19.200 --> 19:25.680] But if I'm home on the holidays and my mom has made her famous chocolate chip walnut cake, [19:25.680 --> 19:31.680] I am absolutely going to eat a slice. And I know how it's going to impact me. It's a conscientious, [19:31.680 --> 19:38.240] deliberate decision that I'm making. But I can either moderate how much I choose to eat or whether I [19:38.240 --> 19:45.040] eat every two days in a row or three days in a row. I can make a decision about how to include it in a [19:45.040 --> 19:50.480] way that minimizes those consequences. But I still enjoy it because to me, that's worth it. [19:52.800 --> 19:58.080] The question of, is it worth it? And do I want it? Are really at the key to your food freedom? [19:58.080 --> 20:03.360] And you are the only person who can answer those questions for yourself. And whether you say yes [20:03.360 --> 20:08.240] to the food or no to the food, you will never feel deprived because you are the one that made that [20:08.240 --> 20:12.880] decision after checking in with yourself and based on your whole 30 learnings. [20:13.760 --> 20:21.600] So I want to ask a question. And this by no means is specific to the whole 30 diet or the 30 day, [20:21.600 --> 20:28.080] I guess the 45 day program that you do, but just dieting in general. And I feel like I've heard [20:28.080 --> 20:33.360] people say this about the whole 30 before is that, oh, I tried it. I couldn't do it. I couldn't [20:33.360 --> 20:39.360] make it. I failed after day seven or day nine or day 12 or I've tried multiple times and I just [20:39.360 --> 20:45.440] can't make it through the 30 days. Where do you feel people hit that type of a challenge? [20:45.440 --> 20:52.480] And what would you say to that mentality or that person who says, oh, I've failed and I just can't [20:52.480 --> 20:56.960] seem to get through it? Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of reasons that someone might start a whole [20:56.960 --> 21:01.840] 30 and not complete it. One of those reasons is maybe the whole 30 is not what you need right now. [21:02.400 --> 21:10.880] If you have a history of disordered eating or serious restriction followed by periods of [21:11.440 --> 21:16.800] overeating or binging the restrictive nature of the whole 30 or any elimination diet, [21:16.800 --> 21:24.160] it just may not be right for you. It may not feel right to restrict even in the name of self [21:24.160 --> 21:29.920] experimentation, even in the name of an elimination diet. So maybe that's it. Maybe you did not plan [21:29.920 --> 21:34.160] or prepare as thoroughly as you need to do. I think a lot of people come into the whole 30 [21:34.160 --> 21:41.520] thinking they can wing it, but then work runs long or they're presented with the pizza lunch [21:41.520 --> 21:45.520] that they forgot about and they don't have a backup plan and they don't have food prepared [21:45.520 --> 21:51.200] or they didn't meal plan. And in that situation, the brain is always going to revert back to what [21:51.200 --> 21:56.560] is easy and what is rewarding. And I think people can get kind of spun out and maybe abandon their [21:56.560 --> 22:05.840] program then. I think people may question their ability to do it from the outset because other [22:06.400 --> 22:10.800] diets that are specifically weight loss diets, crash weight loss diets have really let them down [22:10.800 --> 22:17.200] in the past and have made them believe that they don't have the willpower, they don't have the [22:17.200 --> 22:21.360] discipline, there's something wrong with them if they can't make this weight loss program that [22:21.360 --> 22:26.720] they've been doing stick. And that can really take a toll on your self confidence and your sense [22:26.720 --> 22:32.000] of self efficacy. And even though the whole 30 is not that, I think people get really nervous [22:32.000 --> 22:36.560] about their ability to complete it. Maybe they don't have the social support that they need. [22:36.560 --> 22:41.440] They're doing the whole 30 on their own without a spouse or without co workers or friends. And [22:41.440 --> 22:48.880] it's just really hard to complete a change and create new habits that are you're so emotionally [22:48.880 --> 22:53.840] attached to without that accountability and social support. So I think there are a lot of [22:53.840 --> 23:01.680] reasons. And again, we have so many resources to mitigate a lot of those. But sometimes it's just [23:01.680 --> 23:06.080] maybe it's not the right time for you to do the whole 30. And I certainly don't want anyone to beat [23:06.080 --> 23:12.080] themselves up for starting the program and then realizing that this is not meant for them at this [23:12.080 --> 23:18.080] time and deciding to stop the program early. I encourage people to do that if that's the realization. [23:18.880 --> 23:24.880] And the accountability aspect is so key, especially if you're living with your partner or your roommate [23:24.880 --> 23:33.440] or whoever, because that I really believe was one of the major factors in being successful with it. [23:33.440 --> 23:38.000] The very first time I did it was that my roommate and I were both like, okay, we're committing to [23:38.000 --> 23:44.720] this and we're doing it together. And it was kind of a fun experiment to see what foods we can play [23:44.720 --> 23:52.000] with and how we could create things that just were whole and different. And we were doing it [23:52.000 --> 23:58.480] together and we were having fun with it. And it really allowed us to be able to be successful [23:58.480 --> 24:03.760] and come out of it, understanding our bodies in a whole new way and what we can start to [24:03.760 --> 24:10.720] reintroduce. So I couldn't agree more with that accountability aspect as well. Now where before I [24:10.720 --> 24:15.120] because there's so much more I want to dive in with you, but before we do that, where can people [24:15.120 --> 24:19.840] understand how they can get started on Whole30, especially if it's something that they're like, [24:19.840 --> 24:25.280] okay, in the new year, this is something that I want to try and or not try, but do and see how [24:25.280 --> 24:29.280] my body responds and feels so that I can go into the year feeling empowered. [24:30.080 --> 24:36.000] Yes. So we run a few different group hole 30s throughout the year. Group hole 30s mean that [24:36.080 --> 24:41.680] they're supported by Whole30HQ, that we set a targeted start date and everybody who does the [24:41.680 --> 24:46.800] whole 30 that month is on the same day at the same time. So there's this huge sense of community [24:46.800 --> 24:52.480] and camaraderie. Our Whole30 approved partners come in hot with discounts and offers and recipes [24:52.480 --> 25:00.960] and resources. We offer a ton of extra support and our January program starts on January 2nd this year. [25:00.960 --> 25:08.560] So anyone who's interested can come to our website, which is whole30.com and find any number of ways [25:08.560 --> 25:14.240] to join the program, even if you're doing the Whole30 by yourself, even if you're not doing it with [25:14.240 --> 25:20.000] a roommate or a spouse or a friend, we have resources like our Whole30 community cohort, [25:20.000 --> 25:26.560] which is a closed group that you can join for that extra accountability, motivation, resources, [25:26.560 --> 25:32.080] daily text messages, daily video messages. We have everything you could possibly need, [25:32.080 --> 25:38.640] whether you're doing the Whole30 alone or with a partner or a friend or a coworker and everything [25:38.640 --> 25:44.560] is just at our website, Whole30.com. Amazing. That is amazing. And even just in chatting about this [25:44.560 --> 25:53.840] and I'm motivated. Yeah, I want to join because I need some self experimentation. I did a lot [25:53.920 --> 25:58.720] back when I was getting more into the world of health and I feel like my body's primed for a [25:58.720 --> 26:05.680] little 35 day experiment right now. As parents, we need a little kick right now. Oh, I believe it. [26:07.120 --> 26:15.760] So, you know, nine books you've put out on Whole30 and but your most recent book has shifted a little [26:15.760 --> 26:23.360] bit into the space of creating boundaries and what it means to be able to create healthy boundaries. [26:23.360 --> 26:28.640] So, where did that interest and topic come from as the focus of this book? [26:29.360 --> 26:34.880] Yeah, the book of boundaries came out in October 2022, but I started working on it in October of [26:34.880 --> 26:44.400] 2020. And it was an incredibly natural evolution from my work with Whole30 because Whole30 is an [26:44.400 --> 26:51.760] elimination program. You say no a lot during those first 30 days. I don't have a hard time saying no, [26:51.760 --> 26:56.720] I've never been a people pleaser. I've never been an obliger. I don't have a hard time kind of [26:56.720 --> 27:02.320] holding my own boundaries, especially around food or drink. But I quickly realized in helping people [27:02.320 --> 27:08.240] go through the whole 30 that they struggled to say no to the break room pizza or the birthday cake [27:08.240 --> 27:14.320] at the party or the glass of wine at happy hour. So, I started helping people find the language [27:14.320 --> 27:20.240] to say no in those specific circumstances. And I gave them literal word for word scripts. Here's [27:20.320 --> 27:25.440] what you say at happy hour. No, thanks. I'm not drinking right now, but I'll have a glass of water [27:25.440 --> 27:31.520] and you order the water with a, you know, lime, twist of lime. And once people figured out that I was [27:31.520 --> 27:36.320] really good at helping them say no in those circumstances, they started asking me about other [27:36.320 --> 27:41.920] scenarios. How do I say no to my mother-in-law who's always dropping by without calling? How do I say [27:41.920 --> 27:48.640] politely to my always gossiping coworker? I don't want to participate in that. So, I began helping them [27:48.640 --> 27:56.320] and like now we're in mid 2020, so we're mid-pandemic when women especially and moms especially [27:56.320 --> 28:02.480] quickly realized that they had no boundaries because work and home and school and kids and [28:02.480 --> 28:08.480] housework were all just jumbled together in a big old mess. And now I'm helping them with these [28:08.480 --> 28:14.320] conversations that apply to these other areas of their lives at a time when people really needed it. [28:14.320 --> 28:19.120] So that's when the idea for the book of boundaries struck me and I, you know, [28:19.120 --> 28:24.320] sent a note to my publisher and started working on it right away. So it may seem like it's a different [28:24.320 --> 28:28.480] topic, but it's really an extension and evolution of the work I've been doing through Whole 30 for [28:28.480 --> 28:35.760] the last 14 years. I mean, that's such a good point. And it really is something that I think, like you [28:35.760 --> 28:43.120] said, women, moms, I mean, people in general though really struggle with understanding how to create [28:43.120 --> 28:48.560] those boundaries. And I, there's so many examples that pop into my mind. The moment we start, [28:48.560 --> 28:54.960] you know, kind of mentioning this and even for my husband here. Oh yeah, not awful. Don't throw [28:54.960 --> 29:00.400] me in the bus. I'm already down here laying on the ground being ready to run over. I am a [29:01.040 --> 29:08.320] Minnesotan. I've got that Midwest. You know, yes, go ahead. Absolutely. Always affirmative. [29:09.200 --> 29:16.720] So it's really hard for people to understand these concepts of, well, I want to say no in a polite [29:16.720 --> 29:21.840] way. But even if I do that, I'm going to get pushed back or people are going to start saying I'm rude [29:21.840 --> 29:28.480] or I'm unpleasant to be around. Like how do people start to create healthier boundaries [29:29.520 --> 29:34.240] and combat maybe some comments that they might get when they start creating those? [29:34.960 --> 29:40.560] Yeah, I mean, that's why I wrote a whole book about it, right? There's a lot of unlearning we have to do, [29:41.200 --> 29:47.280] especially as women. I understand that a lot of men also struggle to set and hold healthy boundaries. [29:47.280 --> 29:53.920] But as women specifically, we've been conditioned our whole lives by the patriarchy and stereotypically [29:53.920 --> 29:59.840] rigid gender roles and sometimes religious influences and diet culture and trauma, [29:59.840 --> 30:05.920] we have been conditioned not to have needs. As a mom, Jen, you can relate to this, right? We are [30:05.920 --> 30:11.840] praised the most when we are selfless. We have no self. We give everything we have to our kids [30:12.320 --> 30:19.920] and our families and our households. And when we do express a need or a feeling or a want, we are [30:19.920 --> 30:25.680] told that it's selfish, that it's cold, that it's demanding, that it's controlling. And this is [30:25.680 --> 30:31.360] by design to keep us small and to keep us compliant. This is the way the patriarchy [30:32.560 --> 30:38.320] has evolved. So as women, especially, but even, I mean, in general, for anybody, [30:38.320 --> 30:42.880] you really, before you can even start talking about what boundaries do I need to set and who do I [30:42.880 --> 30:47.520] need to set them with and how do I need to say it, you need to go all the way back to the beginning [30:47.520 --> 30:55.600] and understand that your needs and feelings and comfort matter just as much as anybody else's. [30:55.840 --> 31:02.560] And as the saying goes, I should not always have to light myself on fire to keep other people warm. [31:03.120 --> 31:08.880] You know, very often moms have this whole list of everything that needs to happen and everybody [31:08.880 --> 31:13.200] who's on their priority list and their own name doesn't even show up. Or if it does show up, [31:13.200 --> 31:18.880] it shows up at the very bottom. And at the heart of my work, I'm like, no, your name needs to be on [31:18.880 --> 31:23.600] the list. And it should be at the very top. So that's really kind of where the concept and the [31:23.600 --> 31:25.200] discussion of boundaries starts. [31:26.720 --> 31:33.360] No, I think that's so important. And I think another thing that people get concerned about is the change [31:33.360 --> 31:40.720] in the dynamic of relationships with people and how close, you know, whoever this person is that [31:40.720 --> 31:44.480] they may feel they've struggled with boundaries or there's things that they really haven't stood [31:44.480 --> 31:48.880] up for, whether it's a parent, whether it's a partner, whether it's a best friend. And when [31:48.880 --> 31:53.920] you start to try and create those boundaries, I feel people can be nervous about how it will [31:53.920 --> 31:59.040] impact the relationship. Like, oh, they're my best friend or they're my mom. How can I start to [31:59.040 --> 32:06.320] create these boundaries without significantly altering or significantly impacting my relationship with [32:06.320 --> 32:10.960] them? Because I love them. Yes, here's what you have to remember about boundaries, though. [32:10.960 --> 32:17.680] A healthy boundary is always designed to make the relationship better. A boundary isn't controlling. [32:17.680 --> 32:24.320] It's not about telling someone else what to do. It's about sharing a previously unspoken limit that [32:24.320 --> 32:31.280] you have that the other person may not even realize they're overstepping in the name of improving your [32:31.280 --> 32:37.520] relationship. So if every single day after work, your wife comes home, and the first thing she does [32:37.520 --> 32:42.640] is just start complaining about her day and you are you're just you're resentful. You're anxious. [32:42.640 --> 32:45.840] You're like avoiding walking in the door because you know that's the dynamic. [32:46.560 --> 32:51.840] Maybe not say anything feels nicer, but it's definitely not good for your relationship. [32:52.480 --> 32:57.840] You're feeling resentful. You're feeling anxious. You're avoiding. She's not understanding why after [32:57.840 --> 33:03.600] work, there's always so much tension. The kindest thing to do for your relationship is to set the [33:03.600 --> 33:09.520] boundary. Hey, can we institute like a 20 minute, no work talk when we get home so that we can really [33:09.520 --> 33:15.680] just connect and unwind? That's sort of the first phase of this boundary. You're sharing a request [33:15.680 --> 33:21.040] based on a limit that she might not have realized you had. And most of the time the people who love [33:21.040 --> 33:26.240] us want to show up in a relationship in a way that feels good to us. And if they just didn't [33:26.240 --> 33:30.640] realize we had this limit, you're going to express it. They're going to go, Oh man, sure. Yeah, let's [33:30.640 --> 33:36.160] try it. And you're going to move on. If you do get pushback, I've got scripts for that. I've got [33:36.160 --> 33:41.360] tips for that because sometimes your boundaries are very inconvenient to them and they won't like [33:41.440 --> 33:48.080] that. But I often tell people you may be surprised how easy it is to set and hold some of these [33:48.080 --> 33:52.640] boundaries because people want to be in relationship with you and they want that relationship to feel [33:52.640 --> 34:02.400] good. That is such a good point. And you know, even with thinking about how to start doing that [34:02.400 --> 34:08.160] and how that opens up that relationship a little bit more. One of my favorite lines actually from [34:08.160 --> 34:17.200] Friends is from Phoebe when she says she's asked to go, I think, you know, they're moving and she's [34:17.200 --> 34:23.600] asked to come help move. And so I wish I could, but I don't want to. And it's Phoebe. So everyone's [34:23.600 --> 34:29.360] like, Okay, it's fine. No one takes offense to it. And it's always something that I've said, [34:29.360 --> 34:34.240] Oh, I can't wait to use that line with someone. But I don't think I ever do because if someone [34:34.240 --> 34:38.720] asks me to come do something, it's not just, Oh, I wish I could, I just don't want to. It's, [34:39.280 --> 34:45.120] Well, no, I can't because this and this has to happen. And you know, I have to, I feel the need [34:45.120 --> 34:51.760] to give all these qualifiers rather than just being able to say no. Mm hmm. But then what you're [34:51.760 --> 34:56.400] doing, Jen, and like, I totally understand that I talk about this a lot because it's one of the most [34:56.400 --> 35:00.960] common scenarios, I think, with people who feel uncomfortable setting boundaries, what you're doing [35:01.040 --> 35:06.400] when you're giving an explanation or a justification, Oh, I wish I could. But I can't because we don't [35:06.400 --> 35:13.520] have a babysitter, you're giving the other person a problem to solve. So that if they say, Oh, my [35:13.520 --> 35:18.320] daughter is 14 and she babysits all the time, she'll babysit for you. Or Oh, I have a great babysitter, [35:18.320 --> 35:22.320] let me call her for you. Now you either have to go do this thing that you didn't want to do in the [35:22.320 --> 35:28.720] first place, or you have to make up another excuse, which really doesn't feel kind. I really do [35:28.720 --> 35:33.760] encourage and empower you enough to be mean about it. I would probably not the I wouldn't use the [35:33.760 --> 35:38.800] wish I could, but I don't want to lie on anyone other than people I'm really close to. I know [35:38.800 --> 35:43.200] understand my sense of humor and my personality and wouldn't take offense. But you can just say, [35:43.200 --> 35:47.840] Oh, thanks for the invite, but not this weekend. Or thanks for the invite, but I've got a hot [35:47.840 --> 35:53.040] date with my couch and Netflix on Friday. Like, let's normalize the idea that not having plans is [35:53.040 --> 35:57.520] plans. And what you want to do on a Friday night should matter just as much as what someone else [35:57.600 --> 36:01.680] wants you to do. And the more you practice it, I promise the easier it gets. [36:03.840 --> 36:08.640] So I know that, of course, all of this is in the book, and I always feel bad asking all these [36:08.640 --> 36:15.680] questions, but I know that people can dig so much more into it within the book. One more question, [36:15.680 --> 36:20.160] though, on creating clear boundaries, because I feel like some people think they're creating a [36:20.160 --> 36:26.320] boundary with someone, and they're a little wishy washy about it, or they say, you know, I just don't [36:27.120 --> 36:32.480] you know, they think they've made the clear boundary. They haven't. Do you have any quick tips on how [36:32.480 --> 36:39.680] people can just be more clear and really set that boundary with people in a way that, you know, [36:39.680 --> 36:43.360] there's better understanding and someone's going to know if they're crossing that line. [36:44.320 --> 36:49.520] This is the best example of what you just shared, which is you're hanging out at home, [36:49.520 --> 36:54.800] you're in laws are visiting and your mother in law starts rearranging your cabinet saying, [36:54.800 --> 36:58.960] oh, my gosh, your Tupperware is so disorganized. Let me rearrange it for you. And you say to her, [36:58.960 --> 37:05.360] oh, you don't have to. In your mind, you just set a boundary. But what your mother in law hears is [37:05.920 --> 37:11.280] you don't have to, but I want to. I'm happy to. I don't mind helping. And she continues to rearrange [37:11.280 --> 37:18.240] your cabinets, right? You need to set the boundary in a clear manner. What you should say instead is, [37:18.240 --> 37:23.200] oh, please don't. I like them the way they are. Oh, please don't. I don't need any help rearranging. [37:24.160 --> 37:30.320] The please don't part is the important part. Not, oh, you don't have to not like making a face about [37:30.320 --> 37:36.160] it or pulling a face or saying something sarcastic or saying something passive aggressive. You have [37:36.160 --> 37:42.000] to set the boundary using clear language. Now you can still be kind. And I think saying, oh, please [37:42.000 --> 37:48.800] don't. I like them the way they are is perfectly kind. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you [37:48.800 --> 37:53.520] are wishy washy in your language or passive aggressive or sarcastic and they don't get it, [37:53.520 --> 38:01.280] that's on you. You have to say what you mean. And only then can you effectively evaluate their [38:01.280 --> 38:08.320] willingness to respect that boundary. That is that is huge because I think a lot of times [38:08.320 --> 38:15.040] what ends up happening is more of a passive aggressive in order to get to that end results of what you're [38:15.040 --> 38:21.360] looking for rather than just having that clarity because you're afraid of coming off rude. [38:21.360 --> 38:27.520] You're afraid of coming off unkind. But in reality, being more passive aggressive is rude. [38:27.520 --> 38:31.360] It's like when I start cleaning the kitchen and shutting off lights and there's some people at our [38:31.360 --> 38:38.240] house. Yeah. You know, you say you don't have to. Your mother unless says, I don't mind. You spend [38:38.240 --> 38:41.840] the rest of the day fuming. Like, why didn't she understand? Your mother in law is like, [38:41.840 --> 38:46.880] why isn't she grateful? I'm rearranging her Tupperware. She should be so grateful. And now, [38:46.880 --> 38:51.360] you know, there's this just nervous tension and this anxiety and this energy around it and like [38:51.360 --> 38:57.680] none of that is good for your relationship. It's so much kinder to just speak the boundary and have [38:57.680 --> 39:03.920] that clear communication. Yeah, I also need this book. You've convinced me you've convinced me of [39:03.920 --> 39:11.760] two things in this conversation. Whole 30 and I need to learn on how to create more clear boundaries. [39:12.320 --> 39:16.480] One other thing that I wanted to ask you about, and this is something very personal to me as well, [39:16.480 --> 39:22.480] is earlier this year, we saw that you shared a bit about concussion symptoms that you were [39:22.480 --> 39:28.400] experiencing. And I played football in college. I know I had multiple undiagnosed concussions [39:28.400 --> 39:34.720] when I played football. And then I had a very bad accident myself that I had months and months of [39:34.720 --> 39:41.600] very severe post-concussive symptoms. Still to this point, where if I don't take care of my brain, [39:41.600 --> 39:47.680] I can feel things creeping back in almost a decade later, can you share a little bit? So first [39:47.680 --> 39:53.280] off, thank you for sharing about your experience because I found the more that I've shared about mine. [39:54.640 --> 39:58.000] It's something people don't talk about enough. It's something that we need to talk about more. [39:58.000 --> 40:02.960] And I think that it's starting to creep into the fold of brain health and being more aware of [40:02.960 --> 40:07.280] post-concussive health. But can you share a little bit about that and why it was so important for [40:07.280 --> 40:14.080] you to share more about it? Yeah, I mean, I knew nothing about concussions, right? Nobody knows [40:14.080 --> 40:17.760] anything about concussions until you get one and you're forced to learn. But I thought they only [40:17.760 --> 40:23.280] happened to race car drivers and football players. And I certainly didn't think the kind of accident [40:23.280 --> 40:29.760] that I had while playing laser tag with my kid could potentially lead to a concussion. Never mind, [40:29.760 --> 40:35.680] we're going on five years now with post-concussion symptoms. But I had an accident playing laser tag. [40:35.680 --> 40:39.760] I got hit in the back of my head kind of right behind my left ear. I didn't black out, but I [40:39.760 --> 40:44.720] definitely saw stars. I know what that means now. And I didn't think anything of it. I had a headache, [40:44.720 --> 40:48.720] but that's to be expected. And it wasn't until the next day when I was trying to read an email and [40:48.720 --> 40:52.720] I burst into tears and said to my husband, like, I don't know why, but I can't do this. He was like, [40:52.720 --> 40:57.360] oh, you have a concussion. And he's no stranger to concussions. He rolls jujitsu and he's had more [40:57.360 --> 41:03.200] than one. But I still didn't understand what that meant. And you know, when you have a cold, [41:03.680 --> 41:08.320] or you have like a little bit of a flu, you just kind of like power through it sometimes. You just [41:08.320 --> 41:12.480] sort of think that maybe you can outwork it. And I tried to do that with my concussion. And I ended [41:12.480 --> 41:18.320] up in the middle of the gym a couple weeks later in a full on panic attack, like unable to breathe, [41:18.320 --> 41:24.560] unable to move. And finally, you know, luckily, a physical therapist who followed me on Instagram [41:24.560 --> 41:29.760] who specializes in concussion reached out. And I finally got the analysis that I needed at Park [41:29.840 --> 41:36.240] City Hospital. And that set me off onto what would end up being years of physical therapy and [41:36.240 --> 41:42.320] evaluations and vestibular treatment and vision treatment. I ended up with a variation of POTS, [41:42.320 --> 41:48.240] a nervous system dysregulation that I then had to do very specific cardiovascular physical therapy [41:48.240 --> 41:54.240] for. And my treatment, my symptoms now are mostly manageable, but I do still have triggers. I know [41:54.240 --> 41:58.560] what those triggers are. Sometimes they can't be avoided. And I'll have a couple days of a flare. [41:59.520 --> 42:04.560] But yeah, I mean, I've talked about it because it was so scary and isolating for me. And I was [42:04.560 --> 42:09.680] like, man, if I can help somebody else feel less afraid and like be able to seek treatment faster, [42:09.680 --> 42:16.560] which I did not know to do, then yeah, it's worth talking about 100%. Because unfortunately, [42:16.560 --> 42:23.520] and I believe you were told to go into a dark room and, you know, just rest, which is not the [42:23.520 --> 42:30.960] protocol that we should be doing, you know, so having people be able to talk about this [42:30.960 --> 42:36.320] experience and understand who to be able to reach out to is so incredibly important. But I think it [42:36.320 --> 42:44.800] bleeds into our conversation of boundaries. When someone can't see that you really have an illness, [42:45.680 --> 42:51.040] whether it's concussion, whether it's celiac, whether it's something that someone can't see, [42:51.920 --> 42:58.800] it's not a, you know, a blister on your face. It's not, you're not coughing and having physical [42:58.800 --> 43:05.840] symptoms. So how do you set boundaries with people who have never been there, can't understand it, [43:05.840 --> 43:08.400] and feel like you're just making an excuse? [43:09.440 --> 43:16.400] I had to do so much therapy around the idea. And it was probably one of the most isolating [43:16.400 --> 43:22.000] pieces of my concussion is that, you know, when you have an invisible illness, whether it's [43:22.000 --> 43:29.440] concussion, long COVID, chronic pain, chronic fatigue, you look fine. And I really struggled [43:29.440 --> 43:34.000] with like thinking people were thinking I was making it up or exaggerating. [43:34.000 --> 43:40.320] I struggled with my own physical limitations. I was kind of railing against myself and beating [43:40.400 --> 43:46.880] myself up. Like you should be able to read this book. You should be able to hike faster than this. [43:46.880 --> 43:53.200] And I couldn't. So I really struggled with that. And it was hard, I think, at first to set and hold [43:53.200 --> 43:59.840] boundaries because I wanted people to think I was okay. I wanted to prove to myself that I was okay, [43:59.840 --> 44:05.280] but that was dumb because it only set me further back when I didn't listen to my own body. But like, [44:05.280 --> 44:11.040] I battled with that for probably a year before I finally accepted where I was in my diagnosis and [44:11.040 --> 44:16.080] realized that if I didn't start taking it seriously and insisting that everyone else took it seriously [44:16.080 --> 44:20.640] too, whether they believe me or not, that's not my business and not my problem. I knew what I was [44:20.640 --> 44:24.880] experiencing and I had to advocate for myself because I was the only one who could feel what I was [44:24.880 --> 44:29.920] feeling. And it got a lot easier from there, but I struggled with that for a really long time. [44:30.880 --> 44:37.040] Just such an important lesson in the self advocacy and making it known, making it known to the [44:37.040 --> 44:40.880] people around you, especially the people, like you said, that care about you and want to have a [44:40.880 --> 44:45.200] relationship with you. If they do actually care about you and want to have a relationship with you, [44:45.200 --> 44:51.600] they will understand to the best of their ability and they will start to become more of an ally [44:51.600 --> 44:57.760] than somebody who continues to step over that line. And again, I appreciate the work you were [44:57.760 --> 45:06.000] doing in concussion, the scariest time in life. And yeah, I just think back on the experience I had, [45:06.000 --> 45:13.040] I had just stepped into a outpatient rehab facility for people with neurologic traumas, [45:13.040 --> 45:20.400] most of which had gotten their spinal cord injury or concussion or brain injury in a car accident. [45:20.400 --> 45:25.520] And I had a car accident two days before I stepped into the setting and I was ducking into rooms, [45:25.520 --> 45:31.360] having my panic attacks, having not being able to remember people's names or the names of their [45:31.360 --> 45:38.160] caregivers. And I worked with them almost every day, not being able to find my words. It was one of [45:38.160 --> 45:43.760] the scariest times in life. So I'm glad that you found the physical therapists that got you on the [45:43.760 --> 45:48.320] right path. And I hope many other people out there through your story, through other people sharing [45:48.320 --> 45:52.880] can start to find the help they need and find it earlier and sooner, because we're learning how [45:52.880 --> 45:57.840] important that is. Where can people go to start to understand concussion? [45:57.840 --> 46:02.800] I do have a highlight on my Instagram feed. I'm at Melissa you, and there's a highlight where I [46:02.800 --> 46:08.000] share like a podcast that I did with Molly Parker, who's a physical therapist specializing in concussion [46:08.800 --> 46:14.320] articles and sort of some of the details. You know, my first piece of recommendation is that if you [46:14.320 --> 46:18.080] do have a head injury and you discover that you have a concussion, first of all, don't panic because [46:18.080 --> 46:24.240] the vast majority of people do recover within about eight weeks. The long term concussion symptoms [46:24.240 --> 46:31.840] are limited to 20 to 30% of people. And unfortunately, women tend to be harder impacted by post concussion [46:31.840 --> 46:38.080] symptoms. But the most important thing that you can do is see a specialist as quickly as possible. [46:38.080 --> 46:43.200] I mean a physical therapist or an occupational therapist or maybe a neurologist who specializes [46:43.280 --> 46:48.640] in TBI, because I did go to see a physical therapist pretty early, but he had no experience with [46:48.640 --> 46:53.520] brain injuries. And he was kind of like, he didn't evaluation. And again, this is not a dig on him, [46:53.520 --> 46:57.520] but he was like, well, I would just kind of like, do what you can. And if it doesn't feel good, [46:57.520 --> 47:01.920] don't do it. And if it does feel good, you can keep doing it. And it just, it wasn't what I needed [47:01.920 --> 47:05.760] because that wasn't his specialty. And I didn't know there were people who specialized in this. [47:06.480 --> 47:11.040] So that would be kind of my biggest point of advice is, as we know now, the earlier you [47:11.920 --> 47:18.640] seek treatment, the better your indicator is of healing from this and finding the right specialist, [47:18.640 --> 47:24.720] I think is key. 100%. And we've actually had Molly on the podcast twice. We love her. She's a dear [47:24.720 --> 47:30.800] friend out here in California too. And getting this word out is so incredibly important. And then [47:30.800 --> 47:35.600] being able to set healthy boundaries, especially if you have that invisible illness and then being [47:35.680 --> 47:42.000] able to understand your body by doing whole 30. Yeah. You have so many of them. Yeah, seriously. [47:42.800 --> 47:46.560] So many helpful tips, Melissa. So you already said your Instagram handle, [47:46.560 --> 47:50.000] where else can people learn from you? Where could they grab these books? [47:50.000 --> 47:54.560] Yeah. So my website and Instagram handle are both Melissa, you it's Melissa, you dot com and [47:54.560 --> 47:59.680] at Melissa, you want Instagram, you can learn anything about whole 30 at whole 30 w h o l e [47:59.680 --> 48:04.000] and the number three zero. We've got an Instagram account. We have got a TikTok account. [48:04.080 --> 48:08.480] There's a YouTube channel. There's a website. And if you're interested in doing our plant-based [48:08.480 --> 48:14.000] version of the program, you can also find that on our website or at PB whole 30 for plant-based [48:14.000 --> 48:18.960] whole 30 on Instagram. So we do have two versions, one of which is for omnivores and one of which [48:18.960 --> 48:24.320] contains no animal products whatsoever, which is really cool giving people a few more accessible [48:24.320 --> 48:27.440] options if you don't want to include animal products in your reset. [48:27.440 --> 48:32.240] Amazing. And we'll have that all linked up in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for [48:32.240 --> 48:36.320] coming on and talking about all of the different topics we covered today, the wealth of knowledge [48:36.320 --> 48:43.760] you have in the areas of nutrition and diet, and now the book and behavior and setting boundaries. [48:44.400 --> 48:48.480] I hope that some people go and get those resources. And I hope we get to chat again soon. [48:48.480 --> 48:51.440] I do too. Thank you so much for having me. It was a great conversation. [48:53.440 --> 48:57.680] Such a great episode with Melissa. I feel like I could keep talking to her. And if you heard [48:57.680 --> 49:01.600] something that you know could benefit someone else, please pass the episode along. This is how [49:01.600 --> 49:06.400] the episode and this information gets shared out to so many more people, but also leaving a [49:06.400 --> 49:12.000] rating and review. It really helps this podcast to continue to grow. So if you feel like you've [49:12.000 --> 49:16.640] been supported by the information and the guests that we've had on, please consider leaving a rating [49:16.640 --> 49:21.440] review. It would really mean so much to us. And I hope you're excited just like we are to get [49:21.440 --> 49:25.920] started with Whole 30 in the new year. All the information is linked down in the show notes. [49:25.920 --> 49:31.440] We'll see you back on another episode. Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe3.sonicengage.com/releases/20240207165123' directory