The Keys to Long Term Fitness Success with Tony Pica

[00:00:01] And we're back.

[00:00:04] So you know, all the really legitimate research on body weight and health outcomes is actually

[00:00:14] as BMI and which is literally just height, a combination of height and weight.

[00:00:22] Most of the research doesn't say anything about muscle mass or fat, body fat percentage.

[00:00:29] Now obviously, I think we all recognize that having lean tissue over body fat, non-contractile

[00:00:37] tissue is preferable for a number of reasons.

[00:00:41] We know that muscles are more insulin sensitive.

[00:00:45] They burn more calories at rest.

[00:00:47] There's a whole host of benefits.

[00:00:49] However, there is some data to show that being 250 pounds of solid muscles probably

[00:00:57] also not healthy for you.

[00:00:59] A lot of those people suffer from very similar chronic health issues like sleep apnea and

[00:01:05] other things.

[00:01:07] And so with men especially, there's a lot of talk about women's self consciousness and

[00:01:17] the images that they're shown in the media.

[00:01:19] But it doesn't often get talked about with the men, which is like men are show, you

[00:01:24] know, we are taught that we need to be these big hulking masses of muscle and ripped and

[00:01:30] lean.

[00:01:31] And I think that also has a negative effect on the culture of men and just men's health

[00:01:39] in general.

[00:01:41] And it is unrealistic.

[00:01:43] I can't even begin to tell you how prolific the use of performance enhancing drugs, whether

[00:01:51] it be steroids to have bigger muscles or some other drugs to have less or body fat, how

[00:01:57] prevalent that is.

[00:02:00] And what's really interesting too is like back in the day, you know when I was coming

[00:02:05] up in the fitness industry, you weren't big or lean unless you were competing.

[00:02:14] And people didn't care about you unless you were competing and you had no audience

[00:02:18] unless you were competing.

[00:02:19] And so even though there was plenty of steroid use and that kind of thing going on back then,

[00:02:26] it wasn't like now where you can just be some nobody have hundreds of thousands of millions

[00:02:33] of followers on a social media platform juicing your mind out and reaching, you know, so influencing

[00:02:41] so many young people.

[00:02:44] And you really haven't done it's for nothing really.

[00:02:47] You know what I mean?

[00:02:48] Like you're not a competitive athlete.

[00:02:50] You're just doing it to, you know, sell your supplements or whatever your discount code

[00:02:55] is and to compound the issue, the photo and video editing techniques now are so easy.

[00:03:06] There's apps on your phone that can make your butt look bigger.

[00:03:09] They can make your waist look smaller.

[00:03:11] Oh yeah.

[00:03:13] There's a great Instagram account.

[00:03:16] The guy's name is Goob U2 and he's a strength coach and his entire account is dedicated

[00:03:24] to calling out people that doctor their photos.

[00:03:28] And he'll like zoom in and show you, you know, how he can spot it.

[00:03:32] And what's really unfortunate about the whole situation is I would say at least

[00:03:38] half of the people he features are people who are supposedly promoting body positivity

[00:03:46] or just loving yourself, how you are.

[00:03:49] And then they're the ones doctoring their photos.

[00:03:52] And it's like that's not even you.

[00:03:54] That's not even real.

[00:03:55] You made your waist look smaller and made your shoulders look bigger or whatever.

[00:03:58] You know, for men, they're usually blown up their biceps

[00:04:01] and for women, they're usually snatching in their waists.

[00:04:05] And, you know, if you're just like some person, you have no influence.

[00:04:10] You're posting your own photos.

[00:04:11] You want to change.

[00:04:13] You want to doctor your photos, whatever.

[00:04:14] But to like.

[00:04:16] Actually a spouse, oh, love yourself, body positivity and then do that.

[00:04:22] That's like reprehensible to me.

[00:04:24] Yeah.

[00:04:25] And there was a lot to a lot to unpack there.

[00:04:28] Yeah. So I think the thing people need to have is maybe less expectations

[00:04:34] for themselves too.

[00:04:35] So what I was getting at is, yeah, we see all these things in the media

[00:04:39] and on social media about, you know, gain 40 pounds of muscle in five months

[00:04:45] by doing this celebrity's workout that he did for this movie or whatever.

[00:04:51] Or take this weight cutting supplement to do this.

[00:04:54] And it's like, well, you know, and then people come to us

[00:04:58] and they're like, I want to lose 40 pounds in the next three months.

[00:05:01] And it's like, whoa, well, like you have a full time job.

[00:05:04] You're a parent.

[00:05:06] You have two, three kids at home, a full time job.

[00:05:10] And you've never worked out and you don't even know if you like it that much.

[00:05:15] And you don't have more than like an hour or three times a week.

[00:05:17] Like let's put the gold of 15 pounds or five pounds to start.

[00:05:23] And yeah, there because losing five pounds and having your blood pressure

[00:05:28] improve truly sounds vastly better if you came in even expecting nothing.

[00:05:34] Like I'm just going to go to the gym and try this for three months

[00:05:37] and see what happens.

[00:05:39] And I'm going to be diligent about improving my nutrition in certain aspects

[00:05:43] and just showing up to the gym and giving it my all for an hour.

[00:05:46] Versus I went to the gym expecting to lose 40 pounds.

[00:05:51] I only lost 15.

[00:05:52] I didn't get to where I want now I'm going to quit because I didn't get

[00:05:55] where I exactly expected.

[00:05:58] Yeah, that that makes me think of three things I want to touch on there.

[00:06:02] So first, just like you said, it goes back to winning.

[00:06:06] Winning is motivating and winning is subjective.

[00:06:11] Like you can change the definition of winning.

[00:06:15] So if your goal is to lose 40 pounds and you only lose 20, you lost.

[00:06:21] Like you're a loser.

[00:06:21] You know what I mean?

[00:06:22] Like you did not hit your goal.

[00:06:25] Now, some people might go, you know what?

[00:06:26] That's that's still great progress.

[00:06:28] But other people I've literally seen it.

[00:06:31] Got into the best shape of their lives, but it's still not quite to the vision

[00:06:36] they had in their head and they thought this didn't work, which is insane.

[00:06:41] Or not insane, but it's unfortunate.

[00:06:44] So if you go in with the idea of I want to lose five, I want to lose 10.

[00:06:50] And then you lose eight.

[00:06:52] Like you're going to be satisfied with that, right?

[00:06:54] Like you're getting so much closer to your goal.

[00:06:57] Secondly, to your point about celebrities, it's it's not even just

[00:07:01] celebrities now because if you go find some 25 year old woman who is an influencer

[00:07:09] and has 500,000 Instagram followers, that is her full time job.

[00:07:15] Training is her full time job.

[00:07:17] Maybe maybe some of these people are doing it as a side hustle, but it's like,

[00:07:23] go find me a fitness influencer that someone looks up to that's 45, has a day job,

[00:07:32] has a family.

[00:07:33] You know what I mean?

[00:07:34] Like those people don't exist.

[00:07:35] Like the entire influencer industry is all people in their 20s.

[00:07:42] A lot of them are doing their full time income is coming from social media.

[00:07:46] And so again, that might they're not a celebrity quote unquote.

[00:07:51] They might seem like, oh, they're just a regular person.

[00:07:53] That's why I love her so much.

[00:07:55] That's why I love following her account.

[00:07:56] It's like, no, she makes her money by making workout videos or training programs

[00:08:01] and promoting them through her workout videos.

[00:08:04] Like that's her entire life.

[00:08:06] So again, it's not a realistic representation of how the rest of us

[00:08:11] have to go about our day.

[00:08:13] But what you should look at is look at what their coaches and things look

[00:08:18] like that are working a full time job that do know what they're doing

[00:08:24] as far as health and fitness.

[00:08:26] And they're probably bought into, you know, decent nutrition and things.

[00:08:29] But and I'm sure they're working out appropriately.

[00:08:32] Right.

[00:08:33] But look at what they look like that they don't have the time to do

[00:08:37] fitness for themselves full time.

[00:08:40] Right.

[00:08:40] That's probably a little more realistic.

[00:08:42] Absolutely.

[00:08:43] And to the third point that you brought up.

[00:08:47] So this came up the other day.

[00:08:49] So again, going back to those who know me, one of my favorite things to do

[00:08:52] is to debate people.

[00:08:54] And there's some guy that I casually know who posted something

[00:08:59] about fitness on his Facebook page.

[00:09:03] And so one of his friends made some comment that I thought was

[00:09:07] I could just tell this guy was kind of a shithead.

[00:09:10] And I was like, I have to I have to say something.

[00:09:13] And so it was about it was about fitness.

[00:09:15] Right. And I made this comment and I was like, you know, this what you said

[00:09:17] was very ignorant. Here's why.

[00:09:19] And the first thing people do, they're going to go look at your profile.

[00:09:22] Right.

[00:09:23] And this guy goes, looks at me and he's like, oh, well, you're fat.

[00:09:26] Like you don't know anything.

[00:09:27] Blah, blah, blah.

[00:09:28] And I said, well, I was, you know, willing to have a conversation

[00:09:33] based on the science here.

[00:09:36] But if you want to go, say, if you want to have a dick swinging

[00:09:39] competition about who's accomplished more in the fitness industry,

[00:09:42] I can promise you that's not going to go well for you.

[00:09:45] And oh, what if you ever done?

[00:09:46] You've never done anything, blah, blah, blah.

[00:09:49] And he said, I've trained three people to get ready for a bodybuilding show.

[00:09:53] And I was like, oh, my God, yeah, geez.

[00:09:56] I was like, let me text some of the Olympians in my phone

[00:09:58] and see if they think that's impressive.

[00:10:01] Like, you know, it's just.

[00:10:02] And so what you said about the blood pressure made me think of this

[00:10:06] because it's like.

[00:10:09] If you.

[00:10:10] OK, we know that like generally speaking, healthy weight loss is not it's

[00:10:16] not linear, first of all, you might lose no weight this week, three pounds a week

[00:10:19] following a pound a week after that.

[00:10:22] But if you spread it out over a long period of time, we typically see

[00:10:26] about one pound per week of weight loss for healthy weight loss,

[00:10:31] maybe two to three pounds if you're very, very, very overweight.

[00:10:35] So if you have, let's say, a hundred pounds to lose,

[00:10:40] which some people do, that could potentially take you years to accomplish.

[00:10:47] Right?

[00:10:48] So you have somebody, let's say they weigh 300 pounds and we want to get them

[00:10:52] down to 200 pounds.

[00:10:53] Now, this person has been in the gym for a year and they've lost 50 pounds.

[00:11:00] That's no small feat.

[00:11:02] In fact, that's an incredible example of consistency and hard work.

[00:11:07] And in that time, they've probably brought their blood pressure down to a normal

[00:11:13] level. They've probably brought their cholesterol down to a normal level if

[00:11:16] they if they had those issues to begin with, because we know that

[00:11:20] you can make improvements in your blood pressure in as little as like four

[00:11:23] weeks. We've seen you can make improvements to your cholesterol in 90

[00:11:27] days. Now, you take a lot of blood pressure down to a normal level.

[00:11:31] Now, you take that person who's 250 pounds, who's been killing it and you

[00:11:36] show them to somebody like that guy.

[00:11:38] And what is that guy going to think?

[00:11:40] That person's fat, that person's lazy, that person's not motivated.

[00:11:44] And unfortunately, the way that guy thinks is the way a lot of us think,

[00:11:49] even if we're in the industry or not, we see somebody who doesn't fit

[00:11:53] what we think is the ideal.

[00:11:57] And we kind of project that in our attitudes and the way we treat people.

[00:12:02] And it's like that person who's lost those 50 pounds

[00:12:06] could potentially have worked harder and been more motivated than

[00:12:10] the person with six back abs, who's just naturally lean.

[00:12:13] It goes to the gym a little bit to maintain.

[00:12:16] And so I think part of the motivation thing comes from it does

[00:12:21] have to come from within.

[00:12:22] But I do think there is like a social element where it's like

[00:12:25] if the whole world's telling you, you suck, that's also very

[00:12:29] demotivating sometimes.

[00:12:31] And some people can flip that and be like, I'm going to use that as motivation

[00:12:33] to prove people wrong.

[00:12:34] But that's not always the case.

[00:12:36] And so I think that's an interesting.

[00:12:39] It's a problem that needs to be addressed, I think.

[00:12:43] Yeah, to go off that too, like we just did that social media post

[00:12:47] on running and wearing hoaxes.

[00:12:48] And I think it's still this post will not die.

[00:12:52] It's over 100,000 views now.

[00:12:54] I love it.

[00:12:55] And it started out with some constructive comments from people

[00:13:00] and then a couple like big time runners got involved with it.

[00:13:04] And yeah, the hate that I even got just like, you know, we do these

[00:13:09] social media videos kind of off the cuff in the gym when we have a minute.

[00:13:13] And I was in the clinic wearing jeans that day and like people were

[00:13:16] making fun of me for wearing jeans and the sneakers I was wearing

[00:13:20] and that I don't look like a runner and that like I have no no foot to

[00:13:25] or no leg to stand on because I don't look like a runner.

[00:13:27] It's like who's gatekeeping?

[00:13:28] Who can be a runner or not?

[00:13:30] And like, little did they know I'm actually training for half marathon.

[00:13:32] I'm like, I actually just ran a six forty seven mile the other day,

[00:13:35] which is like pretty fast for something that's not slow.

[00:13:39] Yeah, it's not slow.

[00:13:41] So it was like, yeah, you know, like.

[00:13:46] I have seven years of education and training in this.

[00:13:49] And the same amount of time working with runners and things.

[00:13:53] So I am educated.

[00:13:54] I do know these things, but like, yeah, why are we judging people

[00:13:57] based on the way they look or what they can and can't do?

[00:14:00] But well, that that's a that brings up another interesting point.

[00:14:04] And so funny story, I was organizing my office

[00:14:09] and I came across this box of mini DV tapes.

[00:14:13] And so this is what camcorders would record to just before we switch

[00:14:17] to SD cards. So this is again, showing my age here.

[00:14:21] But and I was like, oh, wow, I have all these tapes.

[00:14:24] Like who even knows what's on here?

[00:14:26] You know, and so you have to have a camcorder to play them back.

[00:14:30] It's not like I have a mini DV tape player laying around.

[00:14:32] So and they don't make these things anymore.

[00:14:34] So I had to hunt one down.

[00:14:35] I found one used online.

[00:14:36] And of course, people know that they're harder to get.

[00:14:39] So I had to pay like 200 bucks for the stupid thing.

[00:14:42] And but it came with a kit so I can like plug it into my computer

[00:14:45] and like pull the footage off.

[00:14:47] And I had a blast the other day, just going through all these old tapes.

[00:14:51] And I was I was like vlogging back in like 2004.

[00:14:54] And I think this was before even YouTube was a thing.

[00:14:59] I was like, wow, I should have stuck with this.

[00:15:00] I could have been a huge I could have been a huge influencer.

[00:15:03] But there's a bunch of I have a bunch of workout videos

[00:15:07] where I just brought my camera to the gym with me

[00:15:09] and film myself working out, which is hilarious to think about

[00:15:12] because in 2004, 2005, there were no smartphones with cameras.

[00:15:18] And so I'm walking to the gym with this like big, this big, you know,

[00:15:24] camcorder on a tripod and people thought I was nuts.

[00:15:27] And it was very awkward because now I think it's normal

[00:15:29] to see people setting up a video.

[00:15:31] But back then it was like, what are you doing?

[00:15:33] But I was in great shape.

[00:15:36] You know, I was like 170 ish pounds.

[00:15:39] I was walking around at around 10 percent body fat.

[00:15:41] I did cut down a little bit less than that at one point.

[00:15:44] But I think that was kind of like my normal just like training weight.

[00:15:47] I was deadlifting, you know, close to 500 pounds.

[00:15:50] I was squatting over 400 pounds for reps.

[00:15:53] And you know, 170 pounds body weight, 10 percent body fat.

[00:15:57] And you know, early 20s, that's pretty good.

[00:16:00] And it I was training people then and I look at that guy.

[00:16:04] And I think that guy was an idiot.

[00:16:06] You know what I mean?

[00:16:08] Like, I know more now as a nearly 40 year old fat guy

[00:16:11] that hardly takes care of himself than I did at 24, 22 in really great shape.

[00:16:18] And people thought, you know, probably thought, oh, I want to look like that guy.

[00:16:22] So it's not like as I got older and fatter, I got stupider.

[00:16:25] You know what I mean?

[00:16:26] So I think that's so funny for someone to say that

[00:16:30] like you don't look like a runner.

[00:16:33] I mean, obviously, just like anybody else, your health and fitness has waxed

[00:16:37] and waned, but, you know, recently you've dropped a bunch of weight.

[00:16:40] Your training has been going well.

[00:16:41] Like you look great.

[00:16:42] You look like a normal, healthy guy.

[00:16:46] You know what I mean?

[00:16:48] And so it's like it's insane to me that someone will look at you and be like,

[00:16:51] oh, you don't you don't meet my criteria.

[00:16:54] So you're an idiot.

[00:16:56] It's just that's just that's how so many people think.

[00:16:59] And it's so short-sighted.

[00:17:01] And I can't help but wonder how much good information

[00:17:05] people are passing by on because they can't let go of their biases.

[00:17:12] Yeah.

[00:17:12] And yeah, people don't know like I these people don't know I lost 40 pounds

[00:17:17] and just have been running actually for about a year now.

[00:17:21] So has it been that long?

[00:17:22] Yeah. Yeah, I started running back last June.

[00:17:25] So we're catching up on that.

[00:17:28] So let's let's talk about that really quick.

[00:17:31] What was your secret to success?

[00:17:33] Because 40 pounds of weight loss is not insignificant.

[00:17:38] So what did you do? How long did it take you?

[00:17:41] Oh, boy. OK, here we go.

[00:17:43] So so we'll backtrack a little bit.

[00:17:48] So prior to this, I went about three years with the

[00:17:54] or I went almost a year with an undiagnosed parasitic infection,

[00:17:58] which for anyone that doesn't know what that is,

[00:18:01] you can get them from anything like we think it was probably for

[00:18:05] poor food preparation in a restaurant or something.

[00:18:07] But started having all these weird GI symptoms,

[00:18:10] literally to the point where like I thought I had cancer or something.

[00:18:13] I was gaining weight uncontrollably and like I was still maintaining

[00:18:17] like the thing I've just done fitness for so long that it's just

[00:18:21] it's part of my life. It's there's no question about it.

[00:18:24] Where I was still training,

[00:18:27] even though there was no reward there.

[00:18:30] And it's just that's what I do.

[00:18:31] It's what I know.

[00:18:32] It makes me feel better mentally that I'm still accomplishing something.

[00:18:36] So still training, I put on 35, 40 pounds

[00:18:41] over the course of maybe a year and a half or so.

[00:18:43] And I was in a relationship that was very stressful

[00:18:46] because of external things that were out of our control at the time.

[00:18:50] And my gut was in severe dysbiosis to the point like

[00:18:53] I wasn't sleeping well.

[00:18:54] My hormonal system shut down to you.

[00:18:56] I wasn't like literally I would eat food and it would come out whole on the other end.

[00:19:01] TMI, but like that's that's like what my body wasn't doing.

[00:19:05] It wasn't digesting or absorbing nutrients. Right.

[00:19:09] So fast forward a couple years of went through

[00:19:13] functional medicine things, got things squared away from a symptom standpoint.

[00:19:17] Still still having issues, though,

[00:19:22] sometimes with the GI system and then still not able to lose weight.

[00:19:26] And then I went to another practitioner group

[00:19:30] and they did some genetic testing on me.

[00:19:32] So they did all this stool sample of things and we did adrenals.

[00:19:38] They did an intracellular metabolic

[00:19:40] acid to see because a lot of times like with blood work, too, what happens is

[00:19:44] we're just testing what's in the blood.

[00:19:45] We're not actually testing what's going into the cell.

[00:19:48] So the cell, your ass showed me some interesting things about

[00:19:52] my nutrition that we needed.

[00:19:55] And then the biggest thing was we did genetic testing and epigenetic testing.

[00:20:00] So I basically was told I have two genes that one basically says

[00:20:07] is what was happening with me, too, is, you know, I was up to about 235 pounds.

[00:20:12] And well, I didn't realize that that was your peak.

[00:20:16] I thought you were closer to the 200 mark.

[00:20:19] You weren't well.

[00:20:20] You didn't look that heavy, if I'm being honest.

[00:20:23] Thank you. I'm about 200 now.

[00:20:26] OK, well, yeah, I'm waxing and waiting between like 198 203.

[00:20:31] But so the genetic and epigenetic testing came back.

[00:20:36] I had been doing all this dieting, reverse dieting, tracking my macros,

[00:20:40] trying to figure out, you know, I get down to 2000 calories.

[00:20:43] I still wasn't losing weight at 230 pounds, working out four days a week

[00:20:47] and playing hockey and like eating pretty clean.

[00:20:51] And this genetic testing came back that said, yeah, you actually need to be at

[00:20:56] a 20 percent additional deficit from what like is ever prescribed based on like

[00:21:02] your metabolic profile just says like you have a slower metabolism than most people.

[00:21:08] So with that, I started doing intermittent fasting

[00:21:10] just because I don't really care for breakfast anyways.

[00:21:12] I'm not that hungry in the morning.

[00:21:13] I'm stimulated by work.

[00:21:14] So I just eat later in the day so I don't go to bed hungry.

[00:21:18] And then the other thing the other gene I had was saying that

[00:21:22] I basically need to do about an hour and a half of cardio a week

[00:21:26] to turn on my fat burning metabolic pathways and actually lose weight.

[00:21:32] So basically, long story short is I shut my mouth and started running.

[00:21:37] So you you increased your output and decreased your input.

[00:21:41] Yeah. Yeah. So shocker.

[00:21:44] Yeah. But it was like I had to get down to 1,800 calories a day at 230 pounds

[00:21:50] to lose weight, which most people every like anytime I got to 2000

[00:21:55] I was like, no, you're not eating enough, eat more.

[00:21:56] And I would and the scale wouldn't really move up or down would just stay the same.

[00:22:01] So so this actually goes back to the conversation I had with my massage therapist.

[00:22:07] And she was talking about PCOS and there's this belief about PCOS where

[00:22:15] if you have it, you know, your hormones are out of whack and you can't lose weight.

[00:22:18] And, you know, people a lot of times take that and say,

[00:22:24] we'll see calories calories and calories out. It's not real.

[00:22:27] That's it doesn't it's not a thing.

[00:22:29] It's like, well, OK, it is calories and calories out is always the thing.

[00:22:34] It's oh, it's oh, you always have to be in a calorie deficit

[00:22:37] where people get confused is what is a deficit for you might be much,

[00:22:43] much lower than you think it is.

[00:22:45] And I totally understand if that's the case, that sucks and I feel for you.

[00:22:50] But that does not change the laws of physics.

[00:22:53] Like, you know, you still need to be technically in a deficit to lose weight.

[00:22:58] Now, you might want to pursue strategies

[00:23:02] that help you naturally boost your metabolism so you can eat more food

[00:23:07] and be in a deficit.

[00:23:08] But that does not again, does not change the fact that it really just comes down

[00:23:12] to calories and calories out.

[00:23:15] You have to be in a deficit to lose weight.

[00:23:17] Yeah. So so for me, too, it was like,

[00:23:21] you know, I've always been wider a little bit different,

[00:23:23] I think in certain ways of being driven to do things.

[00:23:26] So for me, it was like, OK, these are the cars I've dealt.

[00:23:29] This is what I'm going to do.

[00:23:31] So like, and two hundred thirty five pounds.

[00:23:34] Like, I yeah, I wasn't sleeping good.

[00:23:37] My training had sucked and I couldn't.

[00:23:39] And it was weird.

[00:23:40] I was at this point.

[00:23:42] I was having dreams like three to four times a week

[00:23:46] where I was like out in the woods trying to like run away from something

[00:23:49] and kind of like my legs were giving out like my lungs shut down and I couldn't run.

[00:23:53] It was like the most bizarre thing you're having nightmares

[00:23:57] about not being able to perform.

[00:23:59] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:01] And I was like, but I wasn't even trying to run at this point.

[00:24:03] But then like I got on the treadmill.

[00:24:05] I was like, I couldn't even do three minutes.

[00:24:07] But I went in.

[00:24:08] I didn't have an expectation of being around.

[00:24:11] I was like, I'm just going to get started with this.

[00:24:12] I'm going to put time in.

[00:24:14] And I was like, I'm going to start wherever I start.

[00:24:16] And it's it was going to be zoned to.

[00:24:19] So yeah, like walk walking, brisk

[00:24:21] conversation, like get on the bike for 30 minutes and do that.

[00:24:25] And then I'd run on the treadmill for three minutes

[00:24:29] and then walk for a minute or two.

[00:24:31] And then another three minutes a couple of times.

[00:24:34] There's a I can't remember his name, but there's a marathon coach

[00:24:38] that has actually helped people improve their marathon times by

[00:24:42] walk by structuring in walking into their marathon.

[00:24:46] So essentially.

[00:24:49] You have people who literally could run

[00:24:52] sustain for the 26 miles, but their pace was so slow

[00:24:58] that if they walked a little bit, then their running

[00:25:01] could be that much faster and actually produce a shorter marathon time.

[00:25:08] So, you know, people sometimes poo poo walking, but it's like

[00:25:13] for most of us, it's probably the best place to start.

[00:25:17] Yeah. And, um,

[00:25:20] you know, that's what it was.

[00:25:21] It was just like started with like intervals and it was like three minutes

[00:25:23] and then did four and then I did six and then eight and then 10

[00:25:28] and then I run sub seven in a while.

[00:25:30] I could run 12 and then

[00:25:34] and then I did I was like, well, if I can do 12, I can do 20.

[00:25:37] So I did 20.

[00:25:37] And then I was like, if I can do 20, I can do 25 and then 30.

[00:25:40] And that was like, let me go out on the road and run.

[00:25:43] And then one day

[00:25:45] I actually this past Christmas, we were down in Florida with my family.

[00:25:50] And I was like, I don't go out for a run.

[00:25:52] And I've flown in the day before we were out drinking late that night.

[00:25:56] But I was like, I need to go for a run like this is what I'm doing now.

[00:25:59] And put my shoes on, put my hat on, my headphones in,

[00:26:03] my little running bag thing and got outside of my whoop was like, you're at one percent.

[00:26:08] I was like, which is there's literally a grim reaper when you get to one percent.

[00:26:13] It's like, don't try it.

[00:26:14] I was like, I'm just going to go see what happens.

[00:26:17] Right? No, I didn't have any expectation for myself that day.

[00:26:21] I was like, I might run down the street feel like shit and come back or like I might do three miles.

[00:26:26] So I got out.

[00:26:27] This is new environment, new space.

[00:26:30] I'm on the beach running and did three and I was like, I'll go another mile.

[00:26:33] Get to get down to the port and I'm at four and a half now.

[00:26:38] And my dad had told me he's like, yeah, just tell me, you know,

[00:26:41] I'll come pick you up if you want.

[00:26:42] I was like, OK.

[00:26:43] So he calls me.

[00:26:45] He's like, yeah, you want to come pick you up?

[00:26:46] I was like, yeah, that'd be great.

[00:26:47] Like now I'm dying or I feel like I'm dying at the moment.

[00:26:50] He's like, all right, cool.

[00:26:51] It was like we just went to lunch and so let me know when you get back

[00:26:54] to the house and I'll come pick you up.

[00:26:57] And I was like, I guess I'm running eight miles today.

[00:27:00] That's so I ran all the way back and I did eight miles at one percent.

[00:27:04] I was like, if I can do this, I can totally do a half marathon.

[00:27:07] Yeah. But more of the story is and I see this with a lot of athletes too

[00:27:12] is like those days people come in of like it's a heavy day or a max out

[00:27:16] day or competition and they have these big expectations and put a ton

[00:27:20] of anticipation into things.

[00:27:22] They don't end up doing as well as when like sometimes you feel like shit

[00:27:25] or like you just don't care as much as like when the best results come to you.

[00:27:30] And that's always been that way for me with lifting too.

[00:27:31] Like some days I wake up and tire, I didn't sleep well, whatever.

[00:27:34] And I'm like, yeah, it's not going to be my best

[00:27:36] and they go in and just feel it out and you crank out a really good workout.

[00:27:39] Yeah, it's that old saying how you feel is a lie.

[00:27:42] And as much as I am into metrics, I do have

[00:27:48] some reservations about the heart rate variability and the whoop stuff.

[00:27:53] I mean, I think it's cool.

[00:27:54] It's it's good data to have.

[00:27:55] But I do think like some people live and die about what that thing says.

[00:27:58] And I'm like, whatever, you know, OK, you can't.

[00:28:01] And I mean, so that thing I mean, I'd be one percent every single day,

[00:28:05] probably, but with the way I sleep these days.

[00:28:08] But yeah, I mean, I think that.

[00:28:12] And again, it always comes back to that like winning is motivating

[00:28:17] and an easy way to win is to just like let go of expectations, right?

[00:28:22] And so if you know in your program like, oh, I'm going to be maxing out on this day.

[00:28:27] It's good to have goals.

[00:28:28] I would like to hit, you know, a certain number or whatever.

[00:28:31] But I was always very good at going into workouts with very little anticipation.

[00:28:37] An expectation.

[00:28:39] And I would never really anticipate like this is how it's going to go.

[00:28:44] It's literally just do you're going to do the work no matter what it is.

[00:28:50] Obviously, if you're in pain or something's going seriously wrong,

[00:28:53] like don't don't force yourself to complete the workout.

[00:28:56] However, you know, just go in.

[00:28:59] I mean, there's been days where warming up.

[00:29:02] I have been like this sucks.

[00:29:05] I would rather be doing anything else in the world.

[00:29:09] Moving my body right now feels terrible.

[00:29:12] I don't want to be here.

[00:29:13] And then later in that workout, I set up here.

[00:29:15] You know what I mean?

[00:29:16] So you just have to you just have to like commit to doing it and just

[00:29:23] it is what it is if it goes great.

[00:29:25] Awesome. If it goes poorly.

[00:29:28] Well, at least you're still trained that day.

[00:29:30] You know, there's a I can't ever in 20 plus years

[00:29:35] of being in the gym.

[00:29:36] I can't think of any workout I regret doing.

[00:29:40] You know what I mean?

[00:29:41] I never got home in the gym was like, well, that was a mistake.

[00:29:44] Like, yeah.

[00:29:46] You know what I mean?

[00:29:47] Even even I mean, there's a couple of times where I hurt myself.

[00:29:52] One day I dropped a snatch.

[00:29:55] I was warming up.

[00:29:56] I had like 75 or 80 kilos on the bar and I was training in

[00:30:02] I was at a basement gym in my dad's house and

[00:30:07] the the spatial kind of awareness in a space like that's much different

[00:30:12] than when you go from a big open gym.

[00:30:14] And so sometimes that would like, you know, mess with me and other people.

[00:30:18] And I just like lost my focus for a second, lost my balance.

[00:30:21] And I dropped the bar behind me and I fell forward

[00:30:25] and the bar landed just flush on my low back.

[00:30:29] And, you know, I had a huge contusion,

[00:30:34] massive swelling and then for like weeks, you know, the all the

[00:30:38] pulled up blood was like draining down my legs.

[00:30:41] So these big black streaks down my hamstrings, you know,

[00:30:44] it totally jacked my back up.

[00:30:47] And it's like, yeah, but even still, you wouldn't be like,

[00:30:50] oh, I regret working out that.

[00:30:51] Like I was going to work out that day no matter what.

[00:30:53] So it had nothing to do.

[00:30:54] It was just a freak accident.

[00:30:56] So no one ever goes to the gym and is like, oh, I wish I hadn't done that.

[00:31:00] It's just nothing. Yeah.

[00:31:04] I think the other thing too interesting that I see a lot

[00:31:07] and this came up the other day in the gym.

[00:31:09] So this kid started maybe six weeks ago

[00:31:12] and he was asking one of the coaches like,

[00:31:16] well, why isn't my posture better yet or this and that?

[00:31:19] And I was like, what?

[00:31:21] And he's not he's in his 30s never worked out a day in his life.

[00:31:25] Yeah, it's behind a computer all day.

[00:31:27] I think he's a video game aficionado.

[00:31:31] And I was just like, hey, I was like.

[00:31:34] And he's like, well, I've been trying to be more fit since the beginning of the year.

[00:31:39] I was like, OK, I was like, I've been working out since 14.

[00:31:42] I'm 32 and I'm still trying to be more fit.

[00:31:47] Right. Like there's just the thing about fitness.

[00:31:50] There's no end game.

[00:31:51] It's not I'm going to get here, be satisfied and stop.

[00:31:54] It shouldn't be that way.

[00:31:55] If that is your.

[00:31:57] Your M.O. on this, then like you're don't even start.

[00:32:01] Don't even bother to stay the way you are

[00:32:02] because you're going to go right back to it.

[00:32:04] You're going to end up in the behavior and lifestyles and habits you have.

[00:32:08] Like if you're not willing to change those and be someone else, I guess,

[00:32:12] it's not going to work for you.

[00:32:13] You got to find what works for you.

[00:32:15] But yeah, I mean, there's what?

[00:32:17] One hundred and sixty eight hours in a week.

[00:32:19] You go to the gym, even if you go four days a week,

[00:32:22] which is a significant amount.

[00:32:23] You know, you're in there for an hour, hour and a half each workout.

[00:32:27] You're talking to maybe three percent of your total week.

[00:32:32] Is that going to overcome, you know,

[00:32:35] 30 years of bad habits in a six month period?

[00:32:38] Like no, no, it's not.

[00:32:40] It's awesome.

[00:32:42] Go ahead.

[00:32:43] Well, I was going to say that that's why another thing

[00:32:45] I've learned over the years is.

[00:32:48] I truly think that strength training is the fountain of youth.

[00:32:51] However, if all of your other habits outside of the gym

[00:32:58] aren't geared towards your health goals, then

[00:33:02] you know, the strength training is going to help,

[00:33:03] but then you'll just be strong and fat.

[00:33:09] So and it's interesting too,

[00:33:13] because what I see a lot is people come in

[00:33:17] and they have these limiting beliefs on themselves of

[00:33:21] oh, I haven't done this.

[00:33:22] I have or I've had a bad back or I have bad knees and

[00:33:26] I have all these things like no, no, no, like you just haven't done them in a while

[00:33:31] and you haven't used them like they can get better.

[00:33:32] Like every living thing has potential.

[00:33:35] The the other piece though, too, is.

[00:33:38] People have this expectation or idea that they can change the way they look

[00:33:44] but are very limited in the way they think about their own

[00:33:48] potential as a human.

[00:33:51] So it's like, oh, I can't do that.

[00:33:53] I'm not strong enough to do that.

[00:33:54] I I don't want to put more weight on the bar.

[00:33:57] I could get hurt or I can't.

[00:33:59] I just can't do that.

[00:34:00] I can't move that much weight.

[00:34:02] Most of my job as a coach is just like,

[00:34:05] put more weight on the bar, put more weight on the bar.

[00:34:07] Like you have more in you.

[00:34:08] Like let's show you what you're made of.

[00:34:10] Right. It's an interesting dichotomy.

[00:34:12] They think they're going to look like Gerard Butler in six months,

[00:34:14] but they also think that they can't bench press five more pounds.

[00:34:18] Yeah. So it's like you don't come in expecting on day one,

[00:34:23] if you can squat 100 pounds, you don't expect you have this realistic

[00:34:26] expectation by four weeks in, you're not going to be squatting

[00:34:30] 500 pounds yet everyone wants to look completely different

[00:34:33] without the physical pieces to get there.

[00:34:35] And it's like, if those aren't aligned to that's a big piece of expectations

[00:34:39] that we need to put more in parallel with one another.

[00:34:43] Yeah. I think, well, it's just like that example I gave earlier, right?

[00:34:48] Like the guy that went from 300 pounds to 250 pounds, you know,

[00:34:52] like somebody would look at that person and be like,

[00:34:55] yeah, they're overweight and out of shape, whatever this and that.

[00:35:00] But in reality, they've probably improved their insulin sensitivity,

[00:35:04] improved their resting heart rate and proved their cholesterol,

[00:35:07] their blood pressure, their fasting glucose,

[00:35:09] their, you know, every freaking metric,

[00:35:12] they're probably improved their mobility,

[00:35:14] obviously would have improved their strength and endurance.

[00:35:18] There's so many benefits to exercise that you just cannot see with your eyeballs.

[00:35:26] And on the flip side of that,

[00:35:28] just because somebody is a healthy weight

[00:35:32] or maybe has a nice looking physique doesn't mean

[00:35:35] that they have normal blood pressure or cholesterol

[00:35:38] or they don't have sleep apnea or they don't have mental health issues.

[00:35:43] And that's a that's a huge one that you can't see.

[00:35:46] And a lot of people who are severe

[00:35:50] exercises are, you know, mentally,

[00:35:54] they're struggling with mental mental health

[00:35:57] and they're using it as a coping mechanism.

[00:36:00] And, you know, for sure, it's better that they're going to the gym

[00:36:02] than I guess doing cocaine.

[00:36:04] But it's still maybe necessarily not healthy.

[00:36:10] And I was apparently my massage therapist is a great source of topics

[00:36:14] because she was telling me about her sister who runs like ultra marathons

[00:36:19] and how, you know, she that inspired her to run.

[00:36:22] But she also feels bad because she can't run as far as your sister can.

[00:36:25] And I'm like, well, it's like,

[00:36:29] is it healthy to to not be able to run for three minutes?

[00:36:32] Like, no, probably not.

[00:36:33] Right. Like we probably need to improve that metric.

[00:36:37] Is it healthy to run a five K or half marathon or even a marathon?

[00:36:42] Yeah, probably.

[00:36:44] Is it healthy to run an ultra marathon?

[00:36:46] Like objectively, no, no.

[00:36:49] No, there's a lot of cardiovascular issues that can come up

[00:36:52] and stress hormones and just, yeah, you're I mean,

[00:36:56] I've had friends that have run 100 mile races

[00:36:59] and they couldn't walk for a week after.

[00:37:01] It's like, that's that's objectively not good for your body.

[00:37:04] You know, and you can make the same argument for strength training to

[00:37:07] like is, you know, not being able to squat down in a full squat.

[00:37:12] Is that good? No, you need to fix that.

[00:37:15] Is squatting 100 pounds good?

[00:37:16] Yeah, squatting 200 pounds healthy.

[00:37:19] Yes, squatting 600.

[00:37:21] Probably not at that point.

[00:37:23] You are putting an unnecessary amount of stress on your body.

[00:37:27] You're probably also having to dedicate so much of your time to that goal.

[00:37:31] You're probably foregoing other aspects of your fitness.

[00:37:35] Yeah. So, you know, and.

[00:37:39] I'm not telling anyone that they shouldn't run ultras.

[00:37:41] I'm not telling them they shouldn't, you know, try to squat 600 pounds.

[00:37:45] You know, do whatever makes you happy.

[00:37:48] I think all those people are still probably winning over

[00:37:51] all of us that are sitting on the couch.

[00:37:53] But at ultimately like there is a balance.

[00:37:57] There is a distinct difference between health and

[00:38:02] sports and competition.

[00:38:06] And going back to the influencer thing,

[00:38:09] you know, those people are in competition in a way

[00:38:12] with every other piece of content on the internet.

[00:38:16] So it's in their best interest to have the biggest biceps,

[00:38:18] to have the leanest physique, to have the biggest butt.

[00:38:23] And so they are probably pursuing those things to an end.

[00:38:26] That's that's maybe not healthy.

[00:38:28] And so that's why we need to be selective about having them as role models, I think.

[00:38:33] Yeah, I think if you want to be healthy, don't compete in anything.

[00:38:38] Right. Like because right now.

[00:38:41] So I've been on.

[00:38:41] So and this is kind of why I'm doing this running thing too,

[00:38:44] is as a perspective change is like I've competed in a sport for many years

[00:38:49] that is one rep and it's very specific.

[00:38:52] And by the end of that training,

[00:38:55] like when you're truly peaking and like you're just doing heavy singles

[00:38:59] and like there's not a lot of general fitness stuff going on.

[00:39:02] Like it's amazing how fast you notice

[00:39:05] like your everyday fitness just drop like going up the stairs

[00:39:09] becomes like you're out of breath.

[00:39:10] And it's like I shouldn't be out of breath doing this.

[00:39:13] But it's like I'm not doing anything else besides this heavy

[00:39:15] stuff right now to be specifically adapted for where now

[00:39:20] I'm on the other side of that where like everything feels fucking heavy in the gym.

[00:39:24] But my heart can just go and I can just kind of shut my mind off and run.

[00:39:29] However, the insides of both of my shins are on fire right now

[00:39:34] and my hip hurts and like my I feel stiff.

[00:39:39] Yeah. So it's trying to find that balance.

[00:39:41] It's like now I'm trying to compete

[00:39:43] and get as fast as I can and specific as I can.

[00:39:47] I'm suffering in other ways.

[00:39:48] So.

[00:39:50] Unless you find moderation if you want to be healthy.

[00:39:54] It kind of that kind of touches on the.

[00:39:59] The the snake oil that that CrossFit sells a little bit

[00:40:02] and not not exclusive to CrossFit.

[00:40:04] I shouldn't just call them out.

[00:40:05] And I think CrossFit has certainly come a long way

[00:40:08] as far as the culture of it is concerned.

[00:40:10] But, you know, they kind of pitch you on the

[00:40:13] you can be good at everything, right?

[00:40:15] Like you can be strong and lean and ripped and durable and blah, blah, blah.

[00:40:21] And, you know, there are certainly athletes out there like

[00:40:25] and everyone who is a proponent of CrossFit will just point to the CrossFit games

[00:40:29] and be like, well, there they are.

[00:40:30] There's the guys that can deadlift 600 pounds

[00:40:33] and run a six minute mile and and, you know, have 8% body fat.

[00:40:37] And it's like, right, but they're also the best in the world

[00:40:40] and are probably on drugs.

[00:40:43] So for the rest of us, that's not really realistic.

[00:40:46] One thing that is great about also cardiovascular pursuits

[00:40:51] like running or cycling is drugs.

[00:40:55] Frasier has a whole podcast on rogue and talking about like

[00:40:59] when he was an Olympic weightlifter or junior weightlifter

[00:41:02] for the for Team USA and the the world,

[00:41:07] the Wada and Usada protocol versus CrossFit's private protocol that they have.

[00:41:12] Very different.

[00:41:13] They give you a week's notice that they're coming

[00:41:16] where you saw the Wada show up at your door

[00:41:18] and your house and say, OK, let's go.

[00:41:19] Yep. Yep.

[00:41:22] Anyways, go on.

[00:41:26] Yeah, 2 a.m. Yeah.

[00:41:31] Geez, what was I even talking about?

[00:41:32] Oh, yeah.

[00:41:32] So one thing that is nice about, you know,

[00:41:35] cardio, cycling, running, whatever is the aerobic system

[00:41:39] is actually quite pliable.

[00:41:41] So if you're new to strength training,

[00:41:43] you will see very rapid results.

[00:41:45] But if you're anywhere between that, like if you're beyond that newbie phase,

[00:41:48] strength gains come very slowly where, you know,

[00:41:51] your aerobic system is very, very pliable, which, you know,

[00:41:56] you can fall out of shape pretty quickly,

[00:41:58] but you can also get back into shape pretty quickly as well.

[00:42:01] I mean, how long did it take you to go from?

[00:42:03] I can't run three, three minutes to do maybe a month or two or 20 minutes.

[00:42:09] Not super long. Yeah.

[00:42:14] Right. So you're talking weeks.

[00:42:16] You're talking weeks to double, triple, quadruple your output, basically,

[00:42:22] which is awesome, super motivating, I'm sure.

[00:42:27] But yeah, it's hard to be good at everything.

[00:42:30] And that's always been the debate.

[00:42:31] I actually was just I do some work with with Jason Brown,

[00:42:36] the one of your one of your buddies.

[00:42:39] And

[00:42:41] we were talking about concurrent training versus block periodization,

[00:42:45] which, you know, for those that don't know block periodizations,

[00:42:48] like we're focusing on these elements of fitness for this block.

[00:42:52] Maybe it's power output for eight to 12 weeks,

[00:42:55] where concurrent or, you know, conjugate training,

[00:42:59] they mix in different elements of a fitness throughout a training cycle.

[00:43:05] And, you know, there's there's been a lifelong debate about which one of those is better.

[00:43:09] And I don't think necessarily one is better than another.

[00:43:12] I think it's very contextual.

[00:43:14] They both can work.

[00:43:16] They both have their drawbacks, but for most people it is especially

[00:43:22] you're an adult, you have a family of your own life, a normal life.

[00:43:26] You want to improve your fitness,

[00:43:29] you know, managing those expectations is going to be such an important part of that.

[00:43:34] And committing yourself to the idea that

[00:43:38] even if you don't get the outcome that you necessarily want,

[00:43:42] it's still worth doing.

[00:43:45] Because if you can't convince yourself of that,

[00:43:49] that is when your health will really suffer.

[00:43:52] And that I would say describes my very poor attitude

[00:43:59] from 2019 to probably 20, 21 or 22,

[00:44:06] where I had these severe exercise restrictions imposed on me.

[00:44:10] I can't lift more than 25 pounds or put more than 25 pounds of pressure

[00:44:15] on my left shoulder and arm that takes out

[00:44:20] 95 percent of training exercises.

[00:44:24] And I was just like, there's no point in doing any of this.

[00:44:27] There's no point in going to the gym and doing light bicep curls.

[00:44:32] There's no point in going to the gym and, you know, just doing leg presses.

[00:44:37] There's no point in going for walks.

[00:44:39] This is not this is stupid.

[00:44:41] I just had such a bad I was so angry about these restrictions.

[00:44:46] And then you realize like, oh, you know what, Tony, if you had just

[00:44:50] you were actually in decent shape when all of those restrictions were put on you.

[00:44:58] If I had just done the little basics and stuck with it,

[00:45:02] I would be much better off than I am now.

[00:45:04] But, you know, it's it goes back to that motivation.

[00:45:07] The thing that I love to do is take it away.

[00:45:10] I gave me a new appreciation for.

[00:45:15] Clients when clients would, you know, say like, I really don't enjoy this

[00:45:22] because when you're younger, when you're in your 20s as a coach,

[00:45:25] you have that kind of competitive attitude where you're like, just do it.

[00:45:29] Just who cares if you don't like it?

[00:45:31] Just do it. Shut up. No one cares, you know?

[00:45:33] And you get older and wiser and you're like, no, I get it.

[00:45:35] This sucks. You don't want to do it.

[00:45:37] I wouldn't want to do it either.

[00:45:38] You know? Yeah.

[00:45:39] So you get you get much wiser as you experience these things for yourself

[00:45:44] of my battles with the Ankylosin Spondylitis, yours with the pacemaker of.

[00:45:51] I think we're both in different places with fitness, but like the why of that

[00:45:55] and how we both think about it.

[00:45:57] But one thing you did for sure was like

[00:46:02] that's another issue I see, especially with younger people, trainers,

[00:46:05] people that are getting into powerlifting, weightlifting,

[00:46:09] especially for like your college to 26, 27 year olds, maybe is these sports

[00:46:17] or activities or whatever it is, it might be bodybuilding too.

[00:46:20] It I see a huge problem with that being your whole identity

[00:46:26] is that's not good and that's not healthy because yeah,

[00:46:32] I have too been in that point where my condition got so bad for a while

[00:46:37] when it was about 21, I couldn't even go to the gym and do curls.

[00:46:40] Like it hurt my low back so bad.

[00:46:43] So when you have something taken away from you and

[00:46:47] you know, it might be an acute injury, it might be something longer term,

[00:46:50] but like yeah, you throw your back out and you can't train like that's

[00:46:53] all you know how to do. That's how you cope with everything.

[00:46:55] That's who you are. And now you can't be that person

[00:46:58] puts major strain on someone's identity.

[00:47:01] And I deal with this all the time, coaching clients is,

[00:47:04] you know, they just they can't see that.

[00:47:08] And it's like, look, there's so much fucking more to life

[00:47:11] than how you look in what you deadlift.

[00:47:13] Like I tell people all the time, I'm like,

[00:47:16] is this going to go on your gravestone?

[00:47:17] Like what you deadlifted at this meet because like no one gives a shit.

[00:47:21] Like I care about you.

[00:47:22] Like I want to see you accomplish your goals.

[00:47:24] If this is your goal, I'm going to support you.

[00:47:25] But at the end of the day, like stop putting so much on it because like

[00:47:28] in 10 years, you're probably going to like get a real job, have kids,

[00:47:32] have more responsibilities, have more financial stress.

[00:47:35] And you're not going to be able to train this hard anyways.

[00:47:43] Yeah, it's it's a balancing act.

[00:47:46] Just I think that's been the kind of the theme of this whole talk.

[00:47:49] I think there's definitely been some weights that I've lifted

[00:47:54] that scared me like I was scared to do the lift.

[00:47:57] Like I was like this could this is fucking scary.

[00:47:59] Like I could hurt myself, you know, even though I knew I was prepared

[00:48:03] and you go and you do it.

[00:48:05] And I think when you overcome that fear and you

[00:48:09] you're not sure if you can do it, but you're willing to try.

[00:48:12] And then you do you do lift the weight.

[00:48:14] You do hit the goal.

[00:48:15] I think that's incredibly empowering.

[00:48:17] And I never would want to take that away from people

[00:48:21] because I do think that's an important element of training.

[00:48:24] But just like anything else, you have to you have to curtail

[00:48:29] it somewhere because you're going to get into that point where it's like

[00:48:35] the gains are not going to come as easy.

[00:48:38] You are moving from that beginner to that intermediate to that even advanced level.

[00:48:44] And it could take years to add five, ten pounds to a lift.

[00:48:49] And you the mental fortitude and the dedication that that takes

[00:48:54] and the other things you have to sacrifice.

[00:48:57] And then you end up putting so much pressure on that.

[00:49:00] And if you don't hit it, that can be so devastating to you mentally.

[00:49:06] And that's not a that's not a healthy place to be.

[00:49:09] So I think it's like we used to use

[00:49:13] we used to really encourage people to sign up for powerlifting

[00:49:16] meets or or a five K or whatever it is that they like to do

[00:49:20] because it is motivating to have a goal and to set a date

[00:49:24] and kind of kind of have that finish line to cross.

[00:49:27] But yeah, to have it become like your entire personality.

[00:49:32] There was this gym that used to exist and conquer.

[00:49:35] They're not there anymore.

[00:49:36] They've sold and rebranded.

[00:49:38] And I think whoever's running it now is doing a better job

[00:49:41] of the overall culture there.

[00:49:43] But the guy would basically go online

[00:49:46] and like comment on other gyms, social media posts and like talk trash.

[00:49:53] And his whole personality was just like they were like a hardcore powerlifting gym.

[00:50:00] They did like the whole equipped thing, so they're wearing

[00:50:02] like the triple ply suits and all the space suits and all that stuff.

[00:50:06] And, you know, their whole identity is just wrapped up in how much weight is on the bar.

[00:50:12] And that's kind of like one of the big critiques of equipped powerlifting.

[00:50:17] And if you compete in the quit powerlifting,

[00:50:19] like I don't care that's your thing, more power to you if that motivates you to train.

[00:50:23] But it's kind of there is that element of like, well,

[00:50:28] yeah, you know, you were benching 300 and now you put on this special shirt.

[00:50:32] Now you're benching 450.

[00:50:35] Cool. And I understand there are technique differences

[00:50:38] when you put on the equipment and blah, blah, blah.

[00:50:40] But at the end of the day, you're really just like

[00:50:42] it's just a means to see that number go up.

[00:50:46] And I think it's because people have just crossed that threshold,

[00:50:49] that unhealthy threshold of like it's their entire personality.

[00:50:53] It's their entire identity.

[00:50:55] And it's scary because look, you turn 40, you turn 45, you turn 50.

[00:51:02] At some point, you just can't keep getting better as far as the pure numbers.

[00:51:08] And so what's cool about that still is that you see that are still

[00:51:14] doing their fifties and sixties truly do it because they love it and they feel good.

[00:51:19] Not because not because of any other motivation or external motivation.

[00:51:25] I agree.

[00:51:27] So yeah, you just have to find that healthy balance,

[00:51:35] that that healthy balance of what that looks like.

[00:51:38] And yeah, it's tough, right?

[00:51:42] Because both you and I were are very passionate about Olympic style,

[00:51:46] weightlifting and coaching and competing.

[00:51:48] And it does feel great to go to those meets and have your athletes win medals

[00:51:53] and go to national competitions and make teams and all that stuff.

[00:51:57] But it's like, you know, you could go be even even like a Michael Phelps.

[00:52:04] Like where would you rank him in terms of celebrity status?

[00:52:10] He's like a D list, maybe, you know what I mean?

[00:52:14] And he's like the best swimmer that ever lived.

[00:52:17] Like ultimately, you know, for a lot of sports,

[00:52:22] most people just don't care.

[00:52:26] And so if you're kind of an amateur athlete,

[00:52:30] even if you're competing at a high level, I do think it is important

[00:52:33] to keep that perspective to a certain degree.

[00:52:36] And and for for a general fitness person that's just trying to

[00:52:40] work out and have fun, you definitely can't get around.

[00:52:43] That's the thing too.

[00:52:44] It's like I it's just a waste of time.

[00:52:46] It's and she'll probably listen to this and laugh, maybe.

[00:52:49] But I think we've both talked to her actually about

[00:52:53] that she's powerlifting or weightlifting.

[00:52:55] What do I do? When do I do?

[00:52:58] I have to divorce one of them.

[00:53:00] And I was like, you can do whatever you want.

[00:53:02] Like why and like, why does this this one number matter?

[00:53:06] Like, right, whether it be, you know,

[00:53:09] one hundred eighty kilos or four hundred pounds, whatever it is.

[00:53:12] Like why? Why are we putting these?

[00:53:17] These objective numbers on a subjective feeling.

[00:53:27] Yeah, one of the topics you and I kind of talked about

[00:53:31] before we got on air was like talking about the the the

[00:53:35] difficulties of maintaining your fitness when you work in the industry.

[00:53:40] One thing that I definitely suffered from during my career

[00:53:46] was when you have all the knowledge

[00:53:49] it can make you a little bit like lazy because you're like, I can just do it

[00:53:53] whenever I know what needs to be done.

[00:53:55] I can get to it whenever I want to want to get to it.

[00:53:59] And I always had that attitude as an athlete a little bit.

[00:54:04] And so there's definitely some goals that I had as an athlete

[00:54:08] that I thought I would have more time and then, you know,

[00:54:11] the health issues popped up and that that definitely cut my

[00:54:14] my lifting career short for sure.

[00:54:19] And there's some some numbers that I had mine and some things

[00:54:22] I wanted to do that I never did.

[00:54:24] And like I look back at it

[00:54:28] and I don't really regret it, you know what I mean?

[00:54:32] I don't really go, oh, man, yeah, like you never front squatted 200 kilos.

[00:54:36] You lose there like I don't I don't think that way.

[00:54:39] You know what I mean? I the only thing I actually regret

[00:54:44] is like I regret not getting out of surgery in 2019.

[00:54:50] And start walking an hour every day.

[00:54:53] That that's what you know what I mean?

[00:54:55] It's like I regret not maintain.

[00:54:57] I regret not doing the simple things that I should have been doing.

[00:55:02] But I never think like, oh, I never bench pressed

[00:55:05] 400 pounds like you suck.

[00:55:08] Like it just never crosses my mind.

[00:55:10] And even if I had done those things,

[00:55:12] like there's lots of goals I did hit.

[00:55:16] I look back and go, yeah, that was cool. That was fun.

[00:55:18] But honestly, like,

[00:55:22] you know, yeah, strict pressing 100 kilos 10 years ago

[00:55:27] that doesn't do anything for me now.

[00:55:29] Those feelings are very temporary.

[00:55:30] So it's like cool.

[00:55:33] I did it. But yeah, well, I don't know if you experience this when you competed.

[00:55:36] But yeah, for sure.

[00:55:38] With myself and a lot of athletes, too, is like.

[00:55:41] You can put so much on a meat and then like you're done.

[00:55:44] And then there's there is like post meat depression is a thing, too.

[00:55:47] And you see it in the Olympians all the time, too, of like,

[00:55:50] well, now what?

[00:55:51] Like I've worked my whole life to get to this goal.

[00:55:54] I did it.

[00:55:54] And like that's my identity gone because like I'm probably not going to have

[00:55:58] what are the odds I'm going to train for another four years?

[00:56:01] Be injury free, get to this state, be at this high training level again

[00:56:04] with this level of motivation and discipline.

[00:56:07] Like you're pretty much done.

[00:56:09] So what do I do now?

[00:56:17] That's something that never gets talked about.

[00:56:20] We put so much emphasis in this industry and a lot of facets of life,

[00:56:25] finances and work and careers.

[00:56:28] We put a lot of stress on goals and setting goals and how to accomplish goals.

[00:56:34] And I think that's OK. Yeah.

[00:56:36] But no one ever talks about the dangers of hitting your goals

[00:56:42] because sometimes you get there and A,

[00:56:46] it's not as cool as you thought it was going to be.

[00:56:49] And B, you go now what?

[00:56:52] And this is something that you'll actually hear

[00:56:57] a lot of very wealthy people talk about.

[00:56:59] They go, I thought my life was going to be so much better

[00:57:02] once I was a multimillionaire.

[00:57:04] And then I got here and I realized it's not that great.

[00:57:09] And don't get me wrong.

[00:57:11] That's for sure a first world problem, of course, you know,

[00:57:14] I'd rather have whatever problems the multimillionaire has

[00:57:17] than being homeless or not knowing where my next meal is going to come from.

[00:57:20] You know, those are real problems.

[00:57:22] But once your basic necessities are met,

[00:57:25] you know, adding a big pile of money doesn't necessarily fix

[00:57:29] all the other things that are going on in your life.

[00:57:32] Yeah, you want to squat 400 pounds.

[00:57:35] You want to win, you know, the gold medal at the American Open.

[00:57:40] Cool. What happens when you do that?

[00:57:44] Then what?

[00:57:46] What's what's what's not plan B, but what's the next step?

[00:57:52] It's not always realistic to set that goal higher.

[00:57:55] Even if you could hit it, the diminishing returns

[00:57:58] is a question there.

[00:58:01] But a lot of times, you know, doing more isn't an option.

[00:58:04] OK, you won the gold medal. Now what?

[00:58:06] I guess you could go try to compete internationally.

[00:58:09] But again, even if you could, is that going to really

[00:58:15] do what you want it to do for you, whatever that might you might think that is?

[00:58:21] Which is another reason why I'm a big fan of

[00:58:25] action based goals rather than outcome based goals.

[00:58:30] I don't think so.

[00:58:30] So share it with our listeners.

[00:58:32] Yeah.

[00:58:34] I've never given you this speech.

[00:58:37] So, I mean, yeah.

[00:58:39] So for those that don't know, I run a book review social media account,

[00:58:45] Life on Books. Check me out.

[00:58:49] And I thought and this this goes for fitness, this goes for reading,

[00:58:52] this goes for anything.

[00:58:52] But, you know, a big thing in the book world is like,

[00:58:55] oh, I want to read, you know, 40 books this year or 100 books or 300 books.

[00:59:00] And.

[00:59:03] It kind of comes back to the way our culture is going with, you know,

[00:59:06] hyper optimization and, you know, goal setting and all that.

[00:59:11] But, you know, if I read 100 books, is that 100,

[00:59:15] you know, children's books?

[00:59:16] Is that 100 comic books?

[00:59:17] Is that 100 classics?

[00:59:19] Is that, you know, is that we're talking the Count of Monte Cristo

[00:59:23] or we talk in, you know, some trashy romance novels?

[00:59:27] What does reading 100 books do for you

[00:59:29] that's different fundamentally different than reading 50 books?

[00:59:33] You know, so what I really preach is like instead of setting

[00:59:37] the number of books as an outcome, why don't you just set a daily

[00:59:41] reading goal in terms of time?

[00:59:43] So I always tell people if you want to build a reading habit,

[00:59:47] read one page per day.

[00:59:50] Most people are probably going to read after work when you get

[00:59:52] home from work and or the gym or whatever obligations you have.

[00:59:57] You know, it's easy to just like sit down, turn on the television

[01:00:00] or sit on the couch, scroll social media.

[01:00:03] It's like you know, you want to read, you like reading

[01:00:06] or you think you should read.

[01:00:07] It's like, I just don't want to do it.

[01:00:09] It's like, we'll just pick up the book and read one page.

[01:00:11] Anybody can do that.

[01:00:13] Like it's going to take you 60 seconds.

[01:00:15] So easy to do.

[01:00:17] And you're likely not going to stop at one page.

[01:00:22] You're probably going to read one page.

[01:00:23] But you know what?

[01:00:24] Here I'm reading. I'm liking this.

[01:00:25] Let me just read. I'll read like five.

[01:00:27] And then you end up reading for an hour.

[01:00:29] And so by doing that, right?

[01:00:32] Low expectation. You over.

[01:00:34] You exceed it.

[01:00:35] So now you're like, I'm killing it, right?

[01:00:37] And voila, at the end of the year, you've read 50 books.

[01:00:41] You've read 60 books, whatever it is.

[01:00:43] And it's the same thing for fitness.

[01:00:45] Like if you wanted to lose weight and you had a habit of,

[01:00:52] let's say you eat out five days per week,

[01:00:57] you get lunch out at work every day you do takeout.

[01:01:01] So instead of being like, oh, I want to lose 20 pounds as the goal.

[01:01:06] Like that's just that's just an idea

[01:01:08] that doesn't actually tell you anything about how to get there.

[01:01:11] Right. But I eat out at lunch five days a week.

[01:01:15] OK, what if I cut that down to one day a week?

[01:01:18] That's my action goal.

[01:01:19] I'm only going to eat takeout for lunch one day a week.

[01:01:23] And so the rest of the week, maybe I'll either skip lunch.

[01:01:26] And so I'm going to, you know, obviously like do a form of fasting

[01:01:29] or maybe I'll make meals at home.

[01:01:31] And typically speaking, you know, homemade meals are going to be less

[01:01:33] calorie dense than, you know, takeout meals.

[01:01:37] And so that action will produce the outcome that you want.

[01:01:44] And the reason why it's so effective is

[01:01:47] if I set a goal to lose 20 pounds, let's say over a six month period.

[01:01:53] And I get, you know, three months in and I haven't lost any weight yet.

[01:01:58] I really haven't been like doing anything to accomplish that goal.

[01:02:02] I might go, you know, it's just not going to happen the hell with it

[01:02:05] and just give up.

[01:02:06] And then the six months gets there and I've lost zero pounds.

[01:02:08] I totally even forgot that I even set the goal in the first place.

[01:02:12] But if I set the goal of I'm not going to eat takeout,

[01:02:16] I'm only going to eat it one day a week, let's say on Fridays.

[01:02:19] OK, you know, Wednesday rolls around,

[01:02:23] co-workers are going out, somebody's last day.

[01:02:25] Oh, come on, Tony, come with us, get lunch with us.

[01:02:27] I'm like, OK, I'll go.

[01:02:29] It's like, yeah, you know what?

[01:02:30] I failed my goal.

[01:02:32] But I can start succeeding at my goal again tomorrow.

[01:02:37] Like I can start again tomorrow and be back to winning tomorrow,

[01:02:43] where if I set the weight loss goal and I get, you know,

[01:02:48] a couple of weeks in and I really haven't done anything yet,

[01:02:51] I can't start tomorrow necessarily like be confident that

[01:02:55] I'm going to be able to hit my goal at the end of that time frame.

[01:02:58] So I make the goal an action.

[01:03:01] And so for me right now, I'm using this on myself.

[01:03:04] My goal is to walk for 45 minutes a day.

[01:03:10] And I didn't walk 45 minutes yesterday.

[01:03:14] I did a little stupid little strength training workout,

[01:03:16] which was a quick substitute.

[01:03:18] But it's like, OK, that sucks.

[01:03:20] I didn't do what I was supposed to do.

[01:03:22] But guess what?

[01:03:22] I'm going to walk for 45 minutes today and I'm back on track, baby.

[01:03:26] You know what I mean?

[01:03:27] I'm back to winning.

[01:03:28] So and I know that that building on that action

[01:03:33] is going to produce the outcome I want or very near to it.

[01:03:38] Say weight loss.

[01:03:39] And at the same time, how's your build to happen?

[01:03:41] It's like we see so many people come in and they start their good.

[01:03:44] And then something comes up in life and it's like, oh, you know,

[01:03:48] and they'll be good for a month, two months, three months even.

[01:03:52] And then it's like family member died, something at work happened

[01:03:55] that's like taking them away from the gym a little bit more.

[01:03:58] And then they just stop.

[01:04:00] And it's like or like, hey, I'm going to cancel because

[01:04:06] I can't come in four times a week anymore.

[01:04:07] It's like, well, hold on.

[01:04:08] Like you just work six months, you just drop 20 pounds, whatever.

[01:04:12] You could even if you came once a week

[01:04:16] and just did something to maintain where you've worked.

[01:04:18] Let's get through this obstacle or this, you know, speed bump in your life.

[01:04:22] And then you're still coming to the gym.

[01:04:24] You're still like keeping your strength

[01:04:25] and you can hit it even further down the line.

[01:04:27] Like do that.

[01:04:29] And it's just sometimes it's a matter of talking to people

[01:04:31] and making them realize like you don't have to be all in or out.

[01:04:34] There can be moderation and balance here too.

[01:04:36] And yes, like leaving yourself some grace of, yeah, shit happens.

[01:04:41] Things come up in life.

[01:04:42] But then like, yeah, I'm back on the horse tomorrow.

[01:04:52] Yeah, some is better than none.

[01:04:58] Right? Like four workouts is better than three.

[01:05:01] Three is better than two.

[01:05:02] Two is better than one.

[01:05:03] One's better than none.

[01:05:06] Going back to Jason Brown, something he told me about when

[01:05:09] he writes a program for somebody which I thought was super smart,

[01:05:12] which I wish I had done when I was running Architect.

[01:05:15] And, you know, we had our consultation set up

[01:05:18] with the way I was doing it.

[01:05:19] Uh, we're right.

[01:05:22] Right.

[01:05:23] Instead of asking people like how many days a week do you want to work out?

[01:05:27] He asked people worst case scenario, absolute worst case scenario.

[01:05:32] How many times are you going to work out a week?

[01:05:34] And that's a very different question, right?

[01:05:36] Like a lot of people when they come into a gym,

[01:05:40] especially if they're just getting back into it,

[01:05:42] they're feeling motivated, they're feeling good.

[01:05:44] I'm going to dedicate myself to this.

[01:05:46] I want to be here five days a week, I'm going to be here six days a week.

[01:05:49] That's like, OK, maybe that will happen.

[01:05:52] And if it does, well, you know, we can accommodate you,

[01:05:54] but it's so smart for to ask absolute worst case.

[01:05:59] Can you what can you guarantee me?

[01:06:01] And then you go, oh, you know, all you know,

[01:06:03] the soccer season is coming up for the kids

[01:06:05] and I'll have to drop them off, you know, the practice.

[01:06:07] And so that'll be hard for me to get back to.

[01:06:09] Conk, you know, it changes the the framework of the thinking.

[01:06:13] So I love the way he phrases that question.

[01:06:15] I think it's super smart.

[01:06:18] Because then, you know, again,

[01:06:21] if your coach sets you up for a program for four days

[01:06:24] and you only come in two, you feel like you lost.

[01:06:28] You feel like you suck.

[01:06:30] You go, ah, you know, I didn't do what my coach wanted me to do.

[01:06:33] And this I can't do this program or, you know,

[01:06:36] this program is not going to work

[01:06:37] because I'm not doing it the way it's written.

[01:06:40] But like it's like, OK, you get set up for two workouts.

[01:06:43] You come in, you do the two.

[01:06:45] Well, I'm feeling motivated.

[01:06:47] I want to come to the gym today,

[01:06:48] like let's see what Brett can throw at me.

[01:06:50] Then it's like, OK, let's let's do something that,

[01:06:53] you know, let's do a little extra zone to cardio or,

[01:06:56] you know, maybe we'll take some time

[01:06:58] to work on this mobility issue

[01:06:59] that you're really struggling with, whatever it is, you know, like.

[01:07:03] But it's just again,

[01:07:05] we keep going back to that like managing the expectation

[01:07:08] so you can win because that's going to just motivate you.

[01:07:11] Talk about food.

[01:07:12] Yeah, I thought that was so clever.

[01:07:14] But nutrition and fitness, right?

[01:07:15] So.

[01:07:18] My mother does this God bless her

[01:07:21] that I'm talking about around here. Sorry, mom.

[01:07:24] She's always been she struggled with her weight.

[01:07:26] And it's like she will do all these things

[01:07:28] and like of bad habits and completely goes to

[01:07:32] I'm changing my whole life over.

[01:07:34] I'm going to do this fat weight loss, crazy yo-yo diet

[01:07:38] and lose all this weight and then go back to who I was before.

[01:07:41] And it's like you just did so much to overwhelm yourself.

[01:07:44] And it's like if we could just control ourselves

[01:07:47] with food a little bit better and food is so hard, right?

[01:07:50] Food is probably the only thing that has

[01:07:54] a very short term reward and high reward in our brain with dopamine.

[01:08:00] And we don't suffer any of the consequences from food immediately.

[01:08:04] Unless you have a heart attack from like high sodium

[01:08:07] and you have cardiovascular disease or heart failure.

[01:08:10] But other than that,

[01:08:12] your diabetes doesn't happen from that one piece of candy you had.

[01:08:16] Right. Right.

[01:08:27] Well, I.

[01:08:29] Right.

[01:08:29] I have a whole.

[01:08:30] So yeah, you're open to whole can of worms.

[01:08:33] We talked about, oh, we probably won't go more than two hours.

[01:08:35] But I don't know if we're going to talk about food.

[01:08:37] This kind of goes back to and I don't want to sound like

[01:08:40] a good.

[01:08:45] Oh, I look forward to listening to that.

[01:08:47] This goes back to that kind of like Facebook argument

[01:08:50] I have with that guy.

[01:08:52] And you know, I don't want to sound like a fat guy

[01:08:54] that's just making excuses.

[01:08:55] But honestly.

[01:09:00] We need to take a look as a society

[01:09:02] about at how our food environment functions.

[01:09:07] And there is such a strong genetic component

[01:09:13] to all the variables that come together

[01:09:17] to determine your body weight and your body fat.

[01:09:20] And so there's your resting metabolism.

[01:09:24] So you can have two people who are relatively,

[01:09:27] you know, all the metrics are very similar,

[01:09:28] but somebody just by nature, their basal metabolic rate is higher.

[01:09:32] And you were talking about that yours is lower, right?

[01:09:35] And so you and another person with a higher basal metabolic rate

[01:09:39] could eat the exact same foods

[01:09:41] and you could gain weight and look out of shape

[01:09:43] and fat and lazy.

[01:09:44] And the other person remains a normal weight

[01:09:47] and your behaviors were completely the same.

[01:09:50] And so we need to change how we treat people,

[01:09:53] you know, based on their outward appearance,

[01:09:57] based on that information alone.

[01:09:59] But another thing that is really never talked about.

[01:10:04] There are food scientists whose job it is

[01:10:08] is to make food more palatable, more craveable

[01:10:13] or and I'm hesitant to use this word, but more addictive, right?

[01:10:17] And we are eating foods that

[01:10:23] simply do not exist in nature

[01:10:26] in the combinations of fats and carbs and salts

[01:10:31] that make them so desirable to our primitive brain.

[01:10:36] And some people are hardwired

[01:10:39] to have a little bit more self control than others.

[01:10:42] Like if we can acknowledge that

[01:10:46] strength, endurance, intelligence, height.

[01:10:50] Oh, totally. Whether you're left hand or right hand.

[01:10:53] If all these are genetic factors,

[01:10:55] why isn't self control a genetic factor?

[01:10:58] Right? Like why?

[01:11:00] Why do we take that one element of human behavior?

[01:11:04] Right. We take that. But people treat it like, oh, it's just a matter.

[01:11:07] You're lazy. You just didn't want to do the work, Brett.

[01:11:10] You just didn't want to, you know, blah, blah, blah.

[01:11:12] And it's like, no, guys, like we know that the prefrontal cortex

[01:11:16] and we're getting a little geeky here.

[01:11:17] Well, we know the prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain

[01:11:20] that's really responsible for saying no, essentially,

[01:11:24] to really simplify it.

[01:11:25] And we know that some people's prefrontal cortexes are

[01:11:29] malformed or aren't as strong or as prominent.

[01:11:33] There's a well-known neurobiologist,

[01:11:37] Robert Sapolsky, who's written extensively on human behavior.

[01:11:42] In his recent book, he references a study that shows that low income

[01:11:47] kids that grow up in low income houses, I think by the time they're like three or four,

[01:11:52] their prefrontal cortex development is so far behind

[01:11:57] that it basically can never reach like the normal level.

[01:12:02] And so those people and guess who ends up becoming drug addicts,

[01:12:07] like people from low income households.

[01:12:10] That's not a coincidence, you know what I mean?

[01:12:12] So you're combining, you know, people with a low ability

[01:12:19] to say no, essentially, with hyper palatable foods

[01:12:23] that have been scientifically engineered and not just engineered to taste better,

[01:12:28] but also are constantly marketed to you on television and in social media.

[01:12:35] And there's ad placement in movies.

[01:12:38] I mean, like think about like when Pepsi became like a huge brand.

[01:12:43] It was in like Back to the Future.

[01:12:45] And it was in all these like cool hit movies that were like blockbusters.

[01:12:49] And like that was like the soda to drink.

[01:12:51] And it was like everywhere.

[01:12:53] You know, all that stuff adds up.

[01:12:55] And then you also have the element of and this sounds a little conspiratorial,

[01:13:02] but like with capitalism, you know, businesses are always trying to provide

[01:13:08] like better value, better services out due their competition.

[01:13:12] So, you know, Applebee's rolls out a two for 20.

[01:13:16] And then, you know, 99 rolls out, oh, we have something like that.

[01:13:21] But then you also get a little dessert at the end, you know what I mean?

[01:13:23] And so it's like portions have gotten bigger over the decades.

[01:13:27] The the caloric density of food has gotten insane.

[01:13:32] And so we, you know, evolutionarily speaking,

[01:13:36] like these things have existed for like a fraction of a second

[01:13:41] compared to how our brains and bodies have evolved.

[01:13:45] And honestly, like body fat is a natural occurrence

[01:13:50] because we need to store energy in the event that we are not able

[01:13:55] to procure food and our hunter gatherer lifestyles.

[01:13:58] But like, that's not the environment we live in anymore.

[01:14:01] This place called True North, where they do up to 40 day water fast

[01:14:05] with people to basically reset the dopamine rewards.

[01:14:09] Who's the gas?

[01:14:10] Who do you have on trap as he calls it?

[01:14:12] And but we talked about even these epigenetics of like they did a study

[01:14:16] with rats and they put them in the cage and they had like lily blossoms

[01:14:21] or lilac blossoms or something.

[01:14:23] And they would zap half of the rats with an electrical impulse.

[01:14:28] And then fast forward, they had them reproduce the

[01:14:34] the babies of the rats that were zapped at the smell of the lilac blossoms

[01:14:39] were fear avoidant of lilac blossoms without ever seeing their parents

[01:14:43] exposed to lilac blossoms or the reaction that their parents had.

[01:14:46] They just adapted these same traits and it's like, OK, so there's that.

[01:14:51] And then also too, like, yeah, we talked about that with like willpower

[01:14:54] and things and self control.

[01:14:57] There was even in my genetic testing, I did.

[01:15:00] I actually have a gene that says that I

[01:15:03] like mentally and emotionally respond strongly to strength training.

[01:15:08] So it's like there's no surprise that I am a gym rat.

[01:15:19] Mm hmm. Right.

[01:15:26] Yeah, I did a 23 and me DNA tests way back in the day.

[01:15:30] It was a fairly early technology.

[01:15:32] And then I exported the data to a company that kind of analyzes it

[01:15:36] for for training and nutrition.

[01:15:38] And it was like, you're mostly fast twitch and would excel at strength sports.

[01:15:41] It's like, OK, funny.

[01:15:43] I was like, didn't really tell me anything.

[01:15:45] I didn't know. But yeah.

[01:15:47] It was what's really sad is that a lot of people

[01:15:53] are against this type of information because they have this idea that

[01:15:58] if you tell somebody that like, OK, you you have a genetic disposition

[01:16:03] towards X, Y or Z that people will use that as an excuse to be

[01:16:08] to not do the work.

[01:16:09] And I totally disagree with that.

[01:16:11] I think it's the opposite.

[01:16:13] I think you're like a great example.

[01:16:15] Like you were confronted with the information that like this sucks,

[01:16:19] but you're just going to have to literally eat a little bit less

[01:16:22] and you really want to to see the results.

[01:16:25] And you went, OK, that's what I'm going to do then.

[01:16:28] You know what I mean? Like.

[01:16:31] Right. Right.

[01:16:32] But you just you go, OK, this is the reality I'm faced with.

[01:16:36] Let let me deal with it.

[01:16:38] And I think that was like, you know,

[01:16:40] probably the natural reaction of a lot of people.

[01:16:44] Sometimes it might take you a long to get there.

[01:16:45] But that's exactly how I am now.

[01:16:47] I I've come to the realization that it's like, OK, Tony.

[01:16:52] There's no magical technology that's going to come out tomorrow

[01:16:55] that can replace your pacemaker and you can go back to lifting weights.

[01:16:58] So what are you going to do?

[01:17:01] You know what I mean? It's like, well,

[01:17:03] really, the best thing I can do is walk.

[01:17:05] So I'm going to walk and I'm losing weight.

[01:17:09] Funny how that works like so.

[01:17:13] Yeah. But with the food, too.

[01:17:17] And I do want to touch on this really quick is

[01:17:22] just just a really brief overview of kind of how I got here.

[01:17:26] In 2012, I was diagnosed with an arrhythmia that I was born with.

[01:17:29] I had a procedure called noblation to correct it.

[01:17:33] During that procedure, my AV node was compromised, was damaged.

[01:17:37] And so the AV node for those that don't know,

[01:17:39] bridges the top and bottom chambers of the heart.

[01:17:43] So basically, the top part of my heart would beat and not always

[01:17:46] the beat wouldn't always get to those bottom chambers,

[01:17:49] which the left ventricle, the bottom left is the part of the heart

[01:17:53] that squirts blood out into the body.

[01:17:55] So important, important that those parts beat.

[01:18:00] The damage wasn't so significant that at the time

[01:18:04] anything had to be done.

[01:18:06] And in fact, the doctor kind of like downplayed it a little bit.

[01:18:09] I remember talking with him about it, but he definitely definitely

[01:18:12] downplayed it. But anyway, over the next couple of years,

[01:18:15] my heart rate started to drop more and more and more.

[01:18:17] So my normal kind of heart rate as a, you know, 20 something

[01:18:21] year old athlete was like usually like 60, 65 beats per minute.

[01:18:26] Over the next couple of years, I started to drop into the 30s

[01:18:29] and then into the 20s where I started to get some presyncope.

[01:18:31] I actually never passed out, but I would get very close.

[01:18:34] Like I would be in the gym coaching somebody

[01:18:36] and all of a sudden I would get like like a little bit of fade in

[01:18:40] and out. And I'd be like, holy shit, what's going on?

[01:18:43] And I didn't know that I didn't know this at the time, right?

[01:18:46] So there was no expectation set by the doctor

[01:18:49] that like, hey, this is going to get worse.

[01:18:51] Like he was just like, oh, you know, your heart rate

[01:18:53] slowed down a little bit during the procedure when we did this thing.

[01:18:56] So we kind of like tried to undo it. It should be OK.

[01:18:59] Kind of deal. I was like, all right.

[01:19:01] So I had been feeling worse and worse over the years,

[01:19:04] gaining weight over the years, being tired, just not having the same endurance.

[01:19:09] And obviously, like when your heart is beating at half the speed,

[01:19:12] it should be like your resting metabolism is obviously going to be slower

[01:19:16] and all that stuff. So plus the stress of opening the gym.

[01:19:19] And so I was in pretty pretty poor health.

[01:19:23] I had ballooned up to probably three 15, 320 pounds

[01:19:28] because I was never a super lean guy naturally.

[01:19:31] Plus I had a decade plus of strength training.

[01:19:34] So I was a pretty muscular guy.

[01:19:36] So I was very heavy.

[01:19:39] And then I got the pacemaker put in in 2016 and

[01:19:46] immediately felt better, like people were like,

[01:19:49] I never really realized how like pale you were until now that you have

[01:19:52] normal circulation and blood flow, like you have like color back in your cheeks.

[01:19:56] Yeah, like people that, you know, just like random people

[01:19:59] that didn't even know what was going on would comment about it.

[01:20:03] It was it was night and day, how much better I felt like as soon as this thing went in.

[01:20:07] It's like, oh, having a normal heart rhythm is speed is like, I feel I feel good, you know?

[01:20:13] And so I got back to like being able to push in the gym.

[01:20:17] And I started tracking my macros.

[01:20:22] And I was eating between 3,000 and 3500 calories per day.

[01:20:29] I would eat pancakes, Kodiak Kodiak pancakes for breakfast every day.

[01:20:35] And most days I would have an after dinner snack of two, two cherry

[01:20:42] frosted pop tarts, which is about 75 grams of carbs, most of which is sugar.

[01:20:49] And even with all those carbs, all those calories,

[01:20:57] I was still losing weight.

[01:20:58] I went from 315, 320 ish down to 250 in less than a year.

[01:21:06] And a lot of that was because my training was super efficient, like obviously

[01:21:10] as a coach, I know what I'm doing.

[01:21:13] But I mean, strength training, the insulin sensitivity that you can have

[01:21:19] with strength training to be able to handle that type of carb load is incredible.

[01:21:23] And so that's why I really encourage people to do it.

[01:21:29] But now that I don't have that, like I've called it before that secret weapon

[01:21:34] or that fountain of youth, you know, I'm going to sit more of a situation

[01:21:38] where you are where I gained a lot of that weight back in 29 after 2019

[01:21:42] when I broke the pacemaker and I had these exercise restrictions put in place.

[01:21:47] I slowly started to gain weight over the next couple of years.

[01:21:50] And now even, you know, being much heavier,

[01:21:54] I have to eat around 2000 calories a day to lose weight.

[01:21:59] And it's it's tough.

[01:22:01] I've always been the type of person that would prefer to work

[01:22:06] a little harder to eat a little more because I do have a kind of a high food drive, I guess.

[01:22:13] But, you know, it's just it's it's you realize like this is this

[01:22:17] the cards that I'm dealt like it is what it is.

[01:22:20] And if that means I have to be hungry for, you know, most of the day

[01:22:26] that it is what it is if I want to hit my health goals.

[01:22:30] I've actually like you, I've started fasting

[01:22:33] and I just find it a very easy way to curtail my calories.

[01:22:37] You know, if you have a really big, healthy meal

[01:22:42] with a lot of volume and a lot of fiber in the afternoon,

[01:22:45] I usually find myself so full that I don't want to eat a ton more.

[01:22:50] And so sometimes I do only have one meal in a day.

[01:22:53] And back when you and I first got involved in fitness,

[01:22:58] people would tell you, oh, if you go more than a couple hours,

[01:23:00] your body goes in the starvation mode.

[01:23:03] Turns out that was bullshit.

[01:23:05] You know, I think the average person has

[01:23:09] somewhere around 40,000 calories worth of body fat on their body.

[01:23:13] So if you're overweight or obese, even you have

[01:23:18] potentially hundreds of thousands of calories worth of energy on your body.

[01:23:23] So, you know, like you said, that 40 day water fast

[01:23:27] that peaked my interest because I am kind of curious about

[01:23:30] trying some longer term fasting, actually the guy that both for

[01:23:33] the mental and the physical aspects of it, I think I find something

[01:23:36] very rewarding when you're able to push through like really bad hunger pangs.

[01:23:41] Me. So.

[01:23:45] 20 hours, probably.

[01:23:48] Yeah, let me know.

[01:23:49] I'll be interested in doing it.

[01:23:50] 24 plus hour fast.

[01:23:58] What's the longest you've ever gone?

[01:24:00] Yeah. OK, gotcha.

[01:24:06] Yeah. Yeah, I'm not exactly sure.

[01:24:12] I've done a whole day like I woke up, you know,

[01:24:16] did the whole day I went to sleep, didn't eat.

[01:24:19] And so I'm not sure like what time I'd eaten the day before or like what

[01:24:23] time I ate the day after.

[01:24:24] So I'm not sure of like the total.

[01:24:27] Because it was probably equated somewhere around like 30 ish hours.

[01:24:30] Yeah, I've done like a dope.

[01:24:31] A whole day fast.

[01:24:32] Right. Is it's not to any time we eat something people have told me that

[01:24:37] even on a five day fast, that is your room.

[01:24:39] Like at the end of the week, when you first eat,

[01:24:42] so like that food tastes like better than anything you've ever had.

[01:24:47] Like salt, sugar, you know, cheeses, fats, oils, whatever.

[01:24:52] Right. They're very rewarding, but your brain keeps craving it.

[01:24:55] Right. When you shut that out for a while, it's like the.

[01:25:00] It's a bituation really of like you look at like you start working in a new place

[01:25:05] and there's some like tapping or noise in the room and like you can't

[01:25:08] you can't get used to it.

[01:25:09] Then finally, you just settle in and you don't even realize it anymore.

[01:25:13] But then it shuts off and then you realize

[01:25:16] how loud it was when it comes back on.

[01:25:18] Oh, my God. Same with food, just just in a rewarding sense

[01:25:21] instead of a negative consequence.

[01:25:30] Yeah, this is not medical advice.

[01:25:32] I'm not a real doctor.

[01:25:37] Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:42] Disclaimer for anyone listening, don't do any long term fast

[01:25:46] without some type of supervision from a professional.

[01:25:50] Yeah.

[01:25:54] Just play one on the Internet.

[01:25:56] It's funny.

[01:25:57] I'm friends with this guy, Ben, who's a weight loss coach.

[01:26:01] I mean, they really are super, super specifically focused on that.

[01:26:04] That's all they do.

[01:26:06] And, you know, he's got a master's degree in nutrition.

[01:26:10] He's been in the fitness industry for a long time.

[01:26:13] And he he'll basically tell you like, yeah, it literally just comes down

[01:26:17] to you need to eat less essentially, you know, like.

[01:26:21] And he goes that I think fasting is great.

[01:26:23] And so I was like, you know, what would you I asked him?

[01:26:26] I said, what would you eat like drink for for vitamins and electrolytes

[01:26:34] when if you were to do a long term fast?

[01:26:36] And he's like, oh, there's this guy called he calls himself the snake diet.

[01:26:41] He has he sells snake juice.

[01:26:43] And if you go on this guy's website, he doesn't really actually

[01:26:48] I mean, you can buy the premixed stuff, but it's like out of stock.

[01:26:52] And he has the ingredients like the recipe.

[01:26:55] You can just make yourself.

[01:26:57] But his whole thing is just like, yeah, just just don't eat like just fast.

[01:27:00] You know what I mean?

[01:27:01] Like just you have so much food on your body in the in stored body fat.

[01:27:09] Like you don't need to eat nearly as much as you think you do,

[01:27:12] especially if you're significantly overweight.

[01:27:15] I think I don't know if you and I have ever talked about it.

[01:27:18] But back in the day, like the 50s or 60s, I think it was

[01:27:21] there was a guy that fasted for over a year.

[01:27:25] Yeah, check this out.

[01:27:27] So it started as like the doctors wanted to try a short term,

[01:27:33] like prolonged fast as a means to kind of like help this guy lose weight.

[01:27:38] I think it was supposed to be two weeks or something like that.

[01:27:41] And he did the two weeks and he was like, you know what?

[01:27:42] I feel great. I've lost like 15 pounds already.

[01:27:45] Like I'm just going to keep going.

[01:27:47] And the doctors were all right.

[01:27:49] And he literally just like kept going.

[01:27:51] And he ended up fasting for like 380 days.

[01:27:56] He was taking some type of vitamin concoction

[01:27:58] provided to him from his doctors,

[01:28:02] you know, because obviously you'll get like scurvy and shit

[01:28:04] if you're not getting like vitamins.

[01:28:06] But this is like being a being a sailor.

[01:28:08] But I think he was like 300 plus pounds, maybe 400 plus pounds.

[01:28:14] And he ended up like more dieting down to like 180 ish.

[01:28:19] And the first thing he ate to break his fast

[01:28:21] was like a piece of toast with a little bit of butter on it.

[01:28:24] And they were like, what do you think?

[01:28:25] He was just like, man, like he was just so like his brain was just over food.

[01:28:30] Like incredible.

[01:28:32] Hey, don't get habituated.

[01:28:33] Like something to think about.

[01:28:35] Just like that noise in the room of like, you know,

[01:28:37] it sometimes is hard for me as the owner of like I work in the same walls

[01:28:43] that I train.

[01:28:43] It's like I try to de stress at the place

[01:28:45] that sometimes causes me the most stress.

[01:28:48] And that's not a healthy balance to have where like people come into the gym.

[01:28:51] I'm like, they're bright-eyed and bushy tailed at five o'clock at night.

[01:28:54] I'm like, I wish I had this.

[01:28:56] And over time, those things can change.

[01:28:57] Like if you've been training in the same gym for five years

[01:28:59] or doing the same sport or same activity, like we see it with a weightlifting too.

[01:29:03] It's like it is a very monotonous sport.

[01:29:05] If you want to be really good,

[01:29:06] you have to be good at doing simple things over and over again,

[01:29:10] even if they're not exciting to you on a certain day.

[01:29:13] It comes at a time though, when it's like, hey, or I'm doing this or that.

[01:29:16] I want to talk with someone not too long ago about

[01:29:20] you know, weightlifting and jujitsu.

[01:29:22] And it was like I kind of I'm doing both.

[01:29:24] But like I really they're doing jujitsu because they thought they

[01:29:29] needed to because they've been doing it for so long.

[01:29:34] And I was like, you don't have to.

[01:29:37] You can go do something else.

[01:29:39] You can be someone else.

[01:29:43] You're not you're not a jujitsu person.

[01:29:46] Just like with like I went from my bodybuilding to,

[01:29:50] you know, more athletic, strength,

[01:29:52] conditioning to weightlifting and now running.

[01:29:54] And then it's like what's my next season going to be of like, OK,

[01:29:56] I've done all these things.

[01:29:57] And there comes a point where it's like, like for me now in my health,

[01:30:01] it's like I value health and working out.

[01:30:03] So I'm that's always going to be a part of me in some modality.

[01:30:08] But like right now, like my hips are really bugging me and things.

[01:30:11] And like I have bony overgrowth and both of those like weightlifting

[01:30:14] does not feel good anymore.

[01:30:16] So I can do it like once a week and that's fine.

[01:30:19] But I'm like, can I continue this on forever?

[01:30:22] Probably not.

[01:30:24] So what's viable to do that's a little bit different?

[01:30:46] Yeah.

[01:30:58] Well, there's that cliche saying variety is the spice of life.

[01:31:02] And I think as we get older,

[01:31:04] we start to realize a lot of these cliches exist for a reason.

[01:31:08] Some of them, some aren't so informative,

[01:31:11] but I totally agree.

[01:31:13] Environment fatigue is kind of a thing.

[01:31:16] You know, that's certainly an advantage

[01:31:18] that the runner has over the strength athlete.

[01:31:23] You know, the runners getting outside and running in a variety

[01:31:26] of different locations and terrains and weather and mentally

[01:31:32] is as repetitive as running is.

[01:31:36] There is that beneficial mental element to it

[01:31:40] where your scenery is changing.

[01:31:42] Anyone that's worked in fitness for a long time knows that, yeah,

[01:31:47] it's tough because you're in those four walls all day.

[01:31:52] And then you're supposed to be motivated

[01:31:55] and have your highest output of the day

[01:31:57] if you're training session in those same four walls.

[01:32:00] And it's why a lot of at home fitness equipment

[01:32:06] ends up being a laundry rack for a lot of people

[01:32:09] because you're just at home all the time

[01:32:11] and your motivation is low.

[01:32:14] You're distracted by other things that, you know, your home

[01:32:19] occupies your attention with.

[01:32:23] For sure, sports like Olympic style,

[01:32:27] weightlifting and powerlifting in particular

[01:32:31] because they're not.

[01:32:35] I forget the technical term, they're not an open whatever.

[01:32:38] It's not an open playing field where there's a variety of movement

[01:32:42] like soccer or basketball.

[01:32:44] You know, if you're a basketball player,

[01:32:47] you every game looks different.

[01:32:49] And even if you're in the same court,

[01:32:52] every game plays out in a different way.

[01:32:54] The movements you do are going to be fairly different

[01:32:58] where sports like baseball, for sure,

[01:33:04] you know, weightlifting, they're a little bit more fixed

[01:33:06] in their movement patterns.

[01:33:08] And so that constant low variety can wear on you mentally.

[01:33:16] There was a little bit of a phenomenon that would happen

[01:33:20] when I was coaching a larger weightlifting and powerlifting team,

[01:33:24] which is where my athletes would go do something like

[01:33:29] go for a big hike, like a four or five mile hike

[01:33:32] or would just like sign up for a five K and go run it

[01:33:36] and wouldn't tell me and I would be pissed

[01:33:40] because I'm like, you know, you can get hurt

[01:33:43] if I don't know what other physical,

[01:33:47] strenuous activities you're doing.

[01:33:49] And they would always be like, well,

[01:33:50] I thought you'd be mad because I was doing this stuff

[01:33:53] that's like off program.

[01:33:54] And it's like, well, the only reason I would care

[01:33:58] is that you did something off program is because

[01:34:01] you are the one that told me that snatching 100 kilos

[01:34:04] was the most important thing for you.

[01:34:06] And that's certainly not going to help you do that right now.

[01:34:10] And if I don't know about it, I can't help you incorporate it

[01:34:13] and manage it and still hit that goal.

[01:34:15] So now when your training gets blown up

[01:34:18] and you don't hit that goal and you're mad at yourself,

[01:34:20] you're going to take it out on me.

[01:34:21] And that's why I'm mad that you didn't, you know what I mean?

[01:34:24] That's why I'm mad. You went for a hike.

[01:34:25] I don't care that you went for a hike.

[01:34:26] I think that's fantastic.

[01:34:28] I think you should be doing stuff like that.

[01:34:30] But you're the one that was like,

[01:34:32] I have to snatch 100 kilos or my life is over.

[01:34:35] You know what I mean?

[01:34:36] So it was like this interesting,

[01:34:38] like people would think that like I would be mad

[01:34:41] because they it wasn't going to equate one to one

[01:34:44] to them hitting their goal.

[01:34:46] And I would always, always tell people this,

[01:34:50] it's not my job to tell you what your goal should be.

[01:34:54] That's on you.

[01:34:55] That is your goal, whatever it is.

[01:34:58] As long as I don't think it's bad for your health,

[01:35:02] I will help you achieve that goal.

[01:35:04] I don't care.

[01:35:06] You know, if you came in and you said,

[01:35:08] I want smaller legs, I want, you know,

[01:35:12] blah, blah, blah, blah.

[01:35:13] And I'm like, look, you're a fit, healthy, normal weight person.

[01:35:16] I'm not going to like help you atrophy your legs.

[01:35:18] OK, but but if someone was like, hey, I, you know, yeah,

[01:35:23] do I think like snatching and cleaning jerking is like the most bad ass thing?

[01:35:27] Like, yes, I do.

[01:35:28] Does that mean you need to feel that way?

[01:35:30] No.

[01:35:31] If you want to be the best Jiu Jitsu player,

[01:35:33] I will help you do that.

[01:35:34] If you want to just lose 20 pounds and be able to run a 5k,

[01:35:37] I will help you do that.

[01:35:38] I don't care what your goal is.

[01:35:40] Like it's your goal.

[01:35:41] So

[01:35:43] to that end, if you go watch a lot of the older like Soviet,

[01:35:48] there's a bunch of old Soviet weightlifting training videos on YouTube and stuff.

[01:35:52] They're they're freaking awesome.

[01:35:54] A lot of the times like they're starting their day with like a jog outside

[01:35:58] or a walk in the woods or, you know, just getting out of the freaking gym.

[01:36:04] Changing your environment can be huge.

[01:36:08] And I know you and I have talked about this

[01:36:09] because strength athletes in particular can be kind of finicky.

[01:36:12] You know, people don't hit their goals and no, it must be I need a new program.

[01:36:17] I need a new coach like this coach isn't good enough.

[01:36:19] It's not getting it done anymore.

[01:36:21] And you know, sometimes people just walk into a different space and hit a PR

[01:36:25] just just like just mentally, mentally refreshing.

[01:36:28] And I've been on the other side of that.

[01:36:29] I've had athletes come to me and be like, my old coach sucks,

[01:36:32] you know, and they start training with me and they're they're going gangbusters

[01:36:35] and Tony is the best.

[01:36:36] It's like, well, I'm flattered.

[01:36:38] But honestly, it's like not that much to do with me.

[01:36:40] You know, yeah.

[01:36:41] So yeah.

[01:36:44] So all right, let's let's give people some actionable takeaways

[01:36:48] from our discussion here.

[01:36:50] So your top your top three ways to stay motivated.

[01:38:10] Nice. My top three would be make your goals, actions, not outcomes.

[01:38:19] Number two,

[01:38:21] give yourself some type of visual cue as a reminder of what your goals are.

[01:38:28] So whether that's like putting a photo, you know, of yourself somewhere

[01:38:33] that you can walk through a door or like a little sign that says,

[01:38:35] like, hey, go to the gym today or like, don't forget your goals

[01:38:38] or something like that.

[01:38:39] But sometimes it's not even a matter of like wanting.

[01:38:43] It's just like getting distracted by all the other bullshit life throws at you.

[01:38:47] So giving yourself that reminder is I think very helpful.

[01:38:51] And number three, I will say

[01:38:56] be clearly defined about what it is you want

[01:39:02] and have more than one way to measure it.

[01:39:06] So there you go.

[01:39:07] There's combined 40 plus years of experience

[01:39:12] distilled into six hot tips, ladies and gentlemen.

[01:39:19] Exactly. It was worth it, I hope.

[01:39:34] Let's do it.

[01:39:34] I will probably see you in the next couple of weeks, Brett.

[01:39:36] Thanks for having me.