Intuitive Eating: The Anti-Diet with Kelly Igo, RD

[00:00:02] All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Barbell Therapy Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Brett Scott. Today, we are with Kelly Igo. She's a former competitive bodybuilder and she's a registered dietitian. So she's walked the walk. She knows the talk. And we're going to get into a lot of different things today around our diet culture, intuitive eating, counting macros, a lot of issues people are making mistakes with in their dieting and what their understanding is of nutrition.

[00:00:32] and weight loss and all these other things. So please stay tuned. It's going to be a great episode. Kelly is also our new dietitian that we're using as part of Architect Fitness and Barbell Therapy. So we brought her on because we just know Kelly has a great overall understanding of nutrition and people and psychology. And again, she's walked the walk. And so she's someone we wanted to bring on as part of our team to really help bring our clients to help us.

[00:01:02] And so we're going to bring our clients and patients results to the next level. So whether you're dealing with some type of underlying systemic inflammatory disorder or you just are stuck with weight loss, you're dealing with menopause, you need some help with habits and behaviors and food psychology type things. Kelly's really got it all mastered. And she's if anyone has been inside of our clinic and you know Connor, Kelly seems like she's the female version of Connor where she's super upbeat, super pleasurable.

[00:01:29] And we're really excited to start working with her and see what she can help us do with our clients. And she's also going to be working in sync with all of us in the team at Architect and Barbell Therapy. So if you're a patient, a client, Kelly's going to work hand in hand with your coaches, your physical therapy staff and everything else to help you as well.

[00:01:52] And so if you're new to this podcast and you're listening and you like what you hear, or if you've been listening to this for a while, 95% of you won't stop to hit the like, rate, subscribe button.

[00:02:03] So if you could please stop for a second and do that for us, it helps us tremendously to help grow this podcast.

[00:02:10] Without any further ado, here's our guest, Kelly. So Kelly, thanks for coming on. And right before we started here, we were talking about you. You've been on the path of trying to become a pro bodybuilder.

[00:02:25] You took first in a competition. You've done really well. We've seen your photos. You looked amazing. Now, what has made you step away from bodybuilding as a competitive sport for yourself?

[00:02:37] Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm so excited to be here and chat with you today. And in terms of bodybuilding, I want to make it super clear. It served its purpose in my life. And I had a really positive relationship with bodybuilding.

[00:02:51] And when I started grad school, I began pursuing a specialized eating disorder dietetic internship. So all RDs have to go through an internship. I chose to go through a specialized eating disorder internship. There are two in the country.

[00:03:06] So one of them is located in Boston at Simmons. And I was able to take some graduate courses there surrounding eating disorders. And I think those courses really changed my outlook on what my purpose is as a dietitian and what I want to promote.

[00:03:24] And it's really important for me to walk the walk for the people that I work with. And in my professional opinion, I don't think it would be good for me to continue to engage in bodybuilding with the extremes that it requires you to do while also preaching eating disorder recovery.

[00:03:46] Because there are many practices within bodybuilding that can mimic eating disorders or disordered eating behavior.

[00:03:54] And it's more important for me to lead by example, be a leader for my people, and also follow a lifestyle that I would like to see my clients live, which is ultimately following some form of intuitive eating, flexible dieting, and just living a healthy lifestyle.

[00:04:15] Because that's what's going to be a lifestyle because that's what's going to keep us here on this earth for as long as we can. And hopefully we can enjoy our time while we're here.

[00:04:22] So that's a big reason I stepped away from the sport.

[00:04:27] Another reason, truth be told, I competed for about nine years.

[00:04:32] So I really spent my time there. And I think if I were to continue, the goal would be to turn pro.

[00:04:40] But what it would require for me to do that, I don't feel comfortable with in terms of the drug use that needs to happen, in terms of the continuous building and cutting phases and missing out on certain life experiences.

[00:04:54] Because when you're in a contest prep, everything is bodybuilding.

[00:04:58] And I just wasn't sure that's what made me happy anymore.

[00:05:01] So that also played a bit of a role too.

[00:05:05] And so here's one of the things, and if you look at Instagram, TikTok, whatever, bodybuilding is such a sensationalized aspect of social media now.

[00:05:20] Everyone has to show their butt off and their abs and their progress transformation photos and everything, which can be great and inspiring to some.

[00:05:28] But as someone that does this for a living and seeing, because we have all of this sensationalized social media substance.

[00:05:39] But then at the same time, we have a giant obesity epidemic that's ongoing.

[00:05:45] People are getting fatter. People are getting less and less healthy.

[00:05:48] We're seeing more and more autoimmune disorders pop up.

[00:05:52] Systemic inflammatory things going on with people.

[00:05:56] Stress levels through the roof.

[00:05:59] Where does bodybuilding play a role in that?

[00:06:01] Or what do you see happening even with professional or people trying to get to the competitive stage of bodybuilding?

[00:06:10] It's a great question because bodybuilding is not a representation of a healthy lifestyle or health.

[00:06:16] I would actually say now a lot of my job is fixing people who've undergone contest preps.

[00:06:22] And they ended up with some sort of autoimmune condition because of the amount of stress that the body goes through during a contest prep.

[00:06:31] Specifically, women are much more sensitive to it.

[00:06:34] It's kind of feeding into autoimmune disease, could feed into chronic disease, depending on how somebody handles post-show.

[00:06:43] And it also increases the likelihood of eating disorder development, which I know for a lot of people when it comes to thinking of an eating disorder, there's probably this very petite, smaller, frail person that comes to mind as far as like the body image piece goes.

[00:06:59] And a lot of people that have an eating disorder, you would never be able to tell by looking at them.

[00:07:06] And we call that atypical anorexia or atypical eating disorder.

[00:07:10] And a lot of these people, they will live in larger bodies.

[00:07:15] They may be overweight on that BMI scale.

[00:07:19] They might go to their doctor's appointment and they're being told you have high cholesterol, diabetes, all these problems.

[00:07:24] But they might have an eating disorder, but they're told to go on a diet.

[00:07:27] And so I think that bodybuilding itself is not a representation of health.

[00:07:33] I think it can honestly, physically and mentally deter a lot of health promise.

[00:07:41] So that's my perspective on where bodybuilding fits.

[00:07:43] I think it's for a very niche individual.

[00:07:46] And I think it can work for some people, but it's a very minute percentage of the population.

[00:07:54] I hear you talking about that.

[00:07:56] You hear a golden meat mover on the side.

[00:07:58] He's in his crate.

[00:07:58] He's usually really good.

[00:07:59] That was him.

[00:08:00] He says hello.

[00:08:02] It might be on echo cancel.

[00:08:04] I hope the settings are up for echo cancellation, but Kelly has a puppy at home, so bear with us here.

[00:08:12] Now, do you think, and this isn't everyone, right?

[00:08:16] But do you think there is a high percentage of the population that has some underlying mental health, not even disorder, but something going on mentally and emotionally?

[00:08:30] That pushes them into bodybuilding, whether it be they don't feel good enough about themselves, they have low self-esteem or they're self-conscious that pushes them into bodybuilding.

[00:08:40] That then just cyclically makes that worse and spirals them even further down the line of more issues with self-esteem and eating disorders and things like that.

[00:08:54] I do.

[00:08:55] I think a lot of people find bodybuilding to fill some sort of void.

[00:09:00] I know a lot of people that are in recovery from drug addiction.

[00:09:04] They will lean into bodybuilding.

[00:09:06] People who have self-esteem issues, I will say that straight up.

[00:09:10] That was a big reason I got into bodybuilding.

[00:09:11] I had a lot of my own body dysmorphia and I really struggled with my own relationship during high school time.

[00:09:18] And in a positive light, bodybuilding helped me learn to fuel my body.

[00:09:22] I wanted to build my body up, gain muscle versus be the smallest version of myself.

[00:09:27] But that was a big driver why I even got into it was I could change my body in a positive way.

[00:09:32] And it was more positive than what I was doing at the time.

[00:09:35] And I was able to feel better about myself and feel a sense of accomplishment and self-esteem from it.

[00:09:43] So I think people do try to utilize bodybuilding as almost a coping mechanism for something else.

[00:09:50] And a lot of people would use the phrase of like a bunch of broken toys kind of all coming together.

[00:09:56] And that's where like the bodybuilding industry is in terms of the type of people that get there.

[00:10:00] And I have a lot of friends that are bodybuilders.

[00:10:02] So I know that a lot of people, they can be great people and get involved in bodybuilding.

[00:10:06] But it's definitely usually an outlet for something else that they're coping with for sure.

[00:10:13] Yeah.

[00:10:13] And like I was saying behind the scenes too here is I had a friend that did bodybuilding and she had a friend that was into bodybuilding.

[00:10:23] And during her competition prep cycles, you know, you look at her, she looks great.

[00:10:28] And it's like, you know, people are, you know, giving her so much credit.

[00:10:32] You're so hardworking and so disciplined and so motivated.

[00:10:35] How do you do it?

[00:10:36] Meanwhile, every time she has a craving, which is just about every day, she was going to the store, buying that candy bar.

[00:10:42] It was always some non-perishable item, like some type of, you know, junk food and putting it and stowing it away in her trunk until after that.

[00:10:50] So for 16 weeks, she would do this.

[00:10:51] And then within two weeks, we'd eat all of those things out of her trunk, which she might look healthy.

[00:10:59] She might seem healthy.

[00:11:00] She might work out every day.

[00:11:02] She might be super disciplined for that period of time.

[00:11:05] But much like if you're holding your breath underwater, the longer you hold your breath, the harder you come up looking and gasping for air, which that's an eating disorder.

[00:11:15] If you're stowing food in your trunk, waiting for it, and then completely just going to town on it, that's an issue.

[00:11:24] And that's the thing with bodybuilding that a lot of people don't see.

[00:11:26] And if you want to lose weight, you want to get fit, you want to do all these things, that's great.

[00:11:30] But like bodybuilding itself is not the answer.

[00:11:32] And getting into that culture, it's not a balanced lifestyle that these people are living.

[00:11:37] And a lot of times, too, people don't realize there's drugs involved, performance enhancing, anabolics, androgenics, things like that that are not healthy for you for the most part.

[00:11:47] So things people are seeing on social media and the expectations they have are not reality.

[00:11:57] Absolutely.

[00:11:58] And that's one of the big things I think people need to take from this is like, it's not realistic.

[00:12:02] So anyways, rolling from that, intuitive eating is kind of one of the newer trends out there.

[00:12:13] It's been around since 1995.

[00:12:16] But recently, it's kind of been making a comeback as this trending topic in the world of fitness.

[00:12:23] So today, I really wanted to talk about that.

[00:12:25] Because yeah, a lot of our culture has been, does it fit your macros?

[00:12:29] If it fits your macros, you know, how do you make it fit your macros?

[00:12:33] Because people can use that, they can become obsessive about it, they can become, you know, they can do it with a misguided learning or knowledge of it.

[00:12:45] And so we have that side of like, the bodybuilding culture has really been there.

[00:12:50] And then if you're not in bodybuilding culture and macros, it's been the zone diet, the South Beach diet, the Atkins diet, the there's so many diets out there that we can name.

[00:13:01] And there are all these yo-yo phases, which if you're listening to this podcast, you probably know at this point, that's anything you do, like you can't go to the gym for six weeks, lose weight, and then just walk away and be the person you want for the rest of your life.

[00:13:13] And dieting is the same way.

[00:13:15] So I think the thing is, what seems great about intuitive eating is, it's not a diet, it's more of a learned lifestyle that someone has to adapt to over time.

[00:13:28] And it probably takes some time.

[00:13:30] I know very little about intuitive eating off the top of my head here.

[00:13:35] I did a little bit of research on it.

[00:13:36] So I really wanted to just pick your brain on it today of what it is, how people can start, get started with it, and kind of what the principles are and take it from there.

[00:13:48] So before we get into intuitive eating, it seems like in this world, at least in our country, we have a giant increase in the prevalence of eating disorders, mainly like obsessive or compulsive type eating disorders.

[00:14:05] So whether it be anorexia, bulimia, or just binge eating constantly.

[00:14:10] Certainly, I know another fact too, is I think 95% of people that go on a diet will regain all the weight they lost within five years.

[00:14:19] So in the long run, dieting is not working.

[00:14:25] And then anytime we create any type of restriction, there's typically that rebound effect, like I said, with the water of if you restrict for so long, you're going to come out on the other side, you're going to be craving food.

[00:14:38] You might fall off the map with that and then regain what you had.

[00:14:42] So when people hear intuitive eating, it sounds pretty simple.

[00:14:47] It's just, well, you just eat how you feel, correct?

[00:14:50] Which, however, we don't necessarily want to just eat our feelings.

[00:14:55] So Kelly, start off with this.

[00:14:57] And why is intuitive eating something that people should start to look towards?

[00:15:01] And it's something Kelly practices as part of her practice.

[00:15:03] It's one of the many modes of nutrition that she follows, but one that I think might have more of a long-term lasting effect and a healthier overall effect for people.

[00:15:16] Absolutely.

[00:15:17] So intuitive eating is a form of eating that not only is requiring you to listen to your physical hunger cues, so when you're hungry, when you're full,

[00:15:26] it's also considering the mental health aspect when it comes to food or psychological relationship with food.

[00:15:33] So there's no restriction when it comes to intuitive eating.

[00:15:37] No foods are off limits.

[00:15:38] All foods fit here.

[00:15:40] And the goal with intuitive eating is not to have a free-for-all.

[00:15:45] I know that's usually like that first initial thought.

[00:15:47] People are like, oh, I can eat whatever I want when I want.

[00:15:49] And it's like, technically, yes, you could.

[00:15:51] But probably wouldn't serve your body to do that all the time.

[00:15:55] And we have some gentle nutrition guidelines within intuitive eating that one may follow.

[00:16:01] So they have structure.

[00:16:03] They have intent with their eating.

[00:16:05] They're still getting in their fruits and vegetables.

[00:16:07] But they're also learning how to have that ice cream at the end of the night and not feel like they need to have the entire quart of ice cream.

[00:16:14] They can just have the bowl and move on and be okay with that.

[00:16:16] So intuitive eating is a very whole-body, holistic approach to eating where you're listening to your physical hunger cues but also that mental component to food.

[00:16:27] So you're honoring cravings in a mindful way.

[00:16:30] Mindful eating is actually separate from intuitive eating.

[00:16:33] But mindful eating is a big practice that is incorporated with intuitive eating.

[00:16:39] So commonly, when I am teaching somebody how to eat intuitively, I will recommend leaning into something called the rule of threes.

[00:16:49] So the rule of threes is going to be we're having at least three meals a day.

[00:16:53] We're having about two to three snacks a day.

[00:16:56] And we're going to have all three macronutrients at each of our meals.

[00:17:01] So your carbs, fats, and protein.

[00:17:04] So that way they're balanced.

[00:17:06] We want to have balanced meals because our body needs each of those macronutrients for different functions in the body.

[00:17:12] And we also want to make sure that we're managing our appetite throughout the day.

[00:17:17] So not only are we going to have three meals, up to three snacks, having all three macros at those meals, but we want to also consider meal timing.

[00:17:28] And trying to eat every three-ish hours, you could eat every two, depending on where your own natural hunger cues lie.

[00:17:35] You can listen to that.

[00:17:36] But rule of three guideline, every three-ish hours.

[00:17:40] So that way, your blood sugar doesn't drop off.

[00:17:43] And then you get really hungry.

[00:17:45] And your body starts creating those hunger hormones that say, hey, we're really hungry.

[00:17:49] And then when you go to eat, it's going to be very challenging to honor those hunger cues.

[00:17:54] We've all been there.

[00:17:55] Maybe you forgot your lunch at work that day.

[00:17:57] You come home and the pantry has all these awesome snacks.

[00:18:00] And then you ate the whole box of whatever it was, granola bars or some chips or whatever.

[00:18:05] You ate more than you planned because you had gone so long without eating.

[00:18:10] So that meal timing component helps you to really listen to your hunger cues.

[00:18:16] So it's not a free-for-all, but it's also not as rigid as, say, tracking macros or following this specific meal plan.

[00:18:26] When it comes to intuitive eating, I think another big misconception is that once you start eating intuitively or eating to your hunger cues, you're going to gain all of this weight if you come from a history of following a meal plan or tracking macros.

[00:18:43] And that is typically not the case.

[00:18:46] Because when you're truly listening to your body, your body's going to know what you need in terms of energy intake.

[00:18:53] That's the great thing about our body.

[00:18:54] It has this auto-regulatory mechanism where it knows where it wants to be in terms of homeostasis.

[00:19:00] So as you refine your intuitive eating skills, you'll likely be eating to a maintenance intake.

[00:19:08] And you're going to notice that your hunger fluctuates on a daily basis.

[00:19:13] And there might be days where you eat a little bit less.

[00:19:16] You might have days where you eat a little bit more.

[00:19:18] And that's okay.

[00:19:19] That's really normal.

[00:19:20] But when you come from a history of tracking macros or following a meal plan, you really negate a lot of that.

[00:19:28] And you're like, well, I'm not really listening to hunger cues because I've got to hit these macros.

[00:19:31] I've got to hit this meal plan.

[00:19:32] And so it's oftentimes a new experience for somebody to relearn their hunger cues.

[00:19:39] We're born as intuitive eaters.

[00:19:41] But society, diet culture, things of the like impact that and make it harder for us to be natural intuitive eaters.

[00:19:50] So a lot of the work that I end up doing with my people is, it sounds funny, but teaching people how to eat again.

[00:19:59] And eat in a way that feels good to them.

[00:20:02] Sorry, you just lagged out there for a second on me.

[00:20:05] You're back now.

[00:20:06] That's okay.

[00:20:08] So talking about this with the, yeah, the hunger cues of societally, it's like, okay, we eat lunch at 12 o'clock.

[00:20:16] We eat dinner at 7 o'clock.

[00:20:18] We eat breakfast at 7 a.m.

[00:20:21] Right.

[00:20:22] Or, yeah, you're a bodybuilder.

[00:20:23] It's the super strict schedule of I have to eat this every three to two to three hours.

[00:20:27] And, you know, is it harder for people like that to get cued back into these auto-regulatory sensations we had when we kind of have trained ourselves to shut them off?

[00:20:42] It can be.

[00:20:43] It really depends on the person.

[00:20:45] In the eating disorder treatment centers that I interned at, there are some people there at that level that will never be able to really even feel their hunger cues.

[00:20:56] You can actually get to a point where you've shunt them so much that you'll never feel them the way that you typically would.

[00:21:03] In bodybuilding and in typical diet culture, hopefully you don't ever get to that point.

[00:21:09] But for people that have a really prolonged dieting history, it could be very challenging to see a full return on that.

[00:21:17] So it's possible that it could never happen for them in very severe cases.

[00:21:22] But I would say in most cases, you can relearn it with the right guidance.

[00:21:29] But usually there needs to be some level of support.

[00:21:32] And when we're talking about this too, I know we have hormonal profiles that change based on the way we influence them with our own food intake and nutritional intake.

[00:21:44] So how many people have a misguided appetite?

[00:21:50] Because I think you should do that too, is let's differentiate hunger from appetite and then go into how appetite can be quite misleading to some people.

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:03] So in my definition of what appetite is, it typically is going to be a mental sensation and a physical sensation because we have an appetite for certain food.

[00:22:13] Whereas with hunger, I think oftentimes we mostly associate that with that physical hunger, like my stomach's growling, maybe low blood sugar, we're a little shaky.

[00:22:23] So when it comes to people having difficulty with regulating their appetite, a lot of the time I see that there is some sort of compromised relationship with specific foods.

[00:22:36] So commonly those higher sugar processed foods, people will have difficulty regulating appetite with that because they're so highly palatable.

[00:22:45] And it's very easy to override that physical fullness when we have something that's very highly palatable when it comes to appetite.

[00:22:56] When it comes to regulating actual true physical hunger, it can be a challenge for some people.

[00:23:02] But I think for most people, you know, when you get to a certain point with say like, say you're doing like a potato steak and veggies, it's kind of harder to overeat those kinds of foods.

[00:23:14] They're much more satisfying.

[00:23:15] They're not as, I mean, they can be highly palatable.

[00:23:17] They can taste delicious, but not as highly palatable as something like cookies and ice cream and things of the like.

[00:23:23] So I would say it is challenging for people to regulate their appetite because there's also that mental component that comes along with it oftentimes.

[00:23:34] And so if someone has a history of being overweight and maybe overeating, is it harder for them to eat intuitively where if they've just been overeating and their body's always expecting food in large amounts or, you know, calorically dense foods, is it harder for them to differentiate between that appetite signal and true hunger?

[00:24:00] I would think so.

[00:24:30] With binge eating.

[00:24:31] You have a lot of the similar coexisting mechanisms that somebody that may have really are classified as really poor eating habits.

[00:24:39] But it's like most people that are living in a larger body, they didn't get there in a day.

[00:24:45] They didn't get there in a week.

[00:24:46] It's a lifelong history they've had with food.

[00:24:49] So my perspective on obesity has really changed.

[00:24:52] And I really believe that a lot of people who are living in a larger body that struggle with food and struggle with changing their lifestyle, there's some sort of emotional component with food that hasn't been properly addressed.

[00:25:06] And if they could just properly address that, it would be easier for them to learn how to eat intuitively, not eat past hunger cues, learn to find ways to include fruits and vegetables and exercise into their life in a way that feels good.

[00:25:18] And maybe as a byproduct of changing that lifestyle factor, they might lose weight and they might get their blood pressure into a healthier range.

[00:25:26] They might see their lipid values improve, their blood sugar improve, et cetera.

[00:25:29] But we're so big on this diet culture.

[00:25:32] Oh, they're not disciplined.

[00:25:33] They need to be on this diet.

[00:25:35] You need to cut the carbs.

[00:25:36] You need to do this.

[00:25:37] It's more so, well, is there an emotional component that's not being addressed?

[00:25:40] And I think that's true for a lot of people.

[00:25:43] And that's a missing link that we have.

[00:25:46] Yeah, completely.

[00:25:47] I can't agree anymore with that of our emotions are a big driver of what we choose to do every day and what we choose to put in our mouth and why.

[00:25:56] So there's too many people out there that identify as like, well, I'm a stress eater.

[00:26:02] And it's like, okay, well, that's not good.

[00:26:06] But why are you choosing food as your coping mechanism here?

[00:26:10] And if you are going to choose food, why are we choosing all the bad ones?

[00:26:14] Because that's not going to fix your problem.

[00:26:16] It's just it's kind of an addiction quality, actually, of someone trying to just cope with something that they don't know how to.

[00:26:23] So, yeah, how do we step in the middle of that and do that?

[00:26:27] Now, are there certain things people need to do to really listen to their hunger cues and certain things?

[00:26:33] Because, again, it sounds very simple to some of us that have had a decent relationship with food.

[00:26:40] But for some people, probably not so much.

[00:26:42] So it's I don't think it's quite as simple as I think we all know how to go to the bathroom.

[00:26:50] We have a sensation of my bladder is full.

[00:26:52] I need to go empty.

[00:26:54] But I think our relationship we have with food in this civilization we have is a little bit different.

[00:27:01] So what do people need to listen for, feel for, think about when they feel these sensations come on?

[00:27:10] Or what are they trying to feel for?

[00:27:12] Yeah.

[00:27:13] Yeah.

[00:27:13] So commonly, if you are in tune with your hunger cues, you'll start to feel a sensation of fullness in your stomach.

[00:27:21] So commonly, when we are first feeling hungry for a meal, we're smelling that food.

[00:27:26] Say it's cookies.

[00:27:27] Say we get some fresh baked cookies because they smell awesome.

[00:27:30] So we got those.

[00:27:30] And as soon as you're starting to smell that, your digestive system acknowledges that.

[00:27:36] And you actually begin to create salivary amylase in your mouth.

[00:27:39] The digestive juices start flowing.

[00:27:41] Your body's preparing for digestion.

[00:27:44] So digestion starts as early as smelling.

[00:27:46] And then you put that food in your mouth.

[00:27:48] And then it gets down the esophagus into the stomach.

[00:27:50] And once your body reaches a point of fullness in the stomach, the stomach will expand.

[00:27:55] And that expansion process is going to send some cues to your brain.

[00:27:59] Hey, we're full.

[00:28:00] We're good.

[00:28:01] And if you are pacing properly at that meal, so you're not eating too fast, usually that's the issue.

[00:28:08] It's odd for people to eat too slow.

[00:28:11] Children, yes, that's different.

[00:28:12] But for adults, it's usually an issue of eating too fast.

[00:28:14] So if you're eating at a proper pace, you'll be able to be in alignment with that communication from your stomach and your brain.

[00:28:23] It takes about 20 minutes for that communication to take place.

[00:28:27] So a good rule of thumb that I will provide people with when they're first learning how to slow their pacing down,

[00:28:35] every three to five bites, put the fork down, put the spoon down, put the food down.

[00:28:40] If you get a burger, whatever you're doing, put the food down.

[00:28:42] Take a sip of water.

[00:28:44] If you're at a meal with somebody else, engage in conversation.

[00:28:48] Find ways to slow yourself down at that meal.

[00:28:53] And that will allow for you to better recognize when you start feeling that full sensation.

[00:29:00] Commonly, when you start approaching that fullness, that mental hunger that we talked about will also start to go away a bit.

[00:29:08] So if you're eating at a proper pace, that's really how you get to feel those physical feelings of fullness.

[00:29:17] It's really easy to override those as well, depending on where you're at with your relationship with food.

[00:29:25] So if we go back to the emotional eating experience, someone might feel that physical fullness, but they don't care because they're getting that serotonin and that dopamine boost in their brain.

[00:29:35] And they're using that food to cope.

[00:29:37] So even though they're feeling full, there's that mental satiety that's not fulfilled quite yet.

[00:29:42] And so that's where you start to see people over-consuming, binge eating, emotional eating.

[00:29:47] So yeah, that's kind of how I would recommend going about it is every three to five bites, slow your pacing down.

[00:29:55] Make sure you're really listening to yourself and enjoying every bite of food.

[00:29:58] Engage in conversation if you're in a social setting to really feel what you're looking to feel with that physical fullness.

[00:30:08] That's probably the hardest thing for most people to do, myself included there of like, not that I pride myself on this, but like owning a business.

[00:30:17] There's really no break time because that's time I could be working in building my business.

[00:30:22] So there's been very few lunches I've had where I sat and was actually present with my food.

[00:30:29] It's just like, I have five or 10 minutes to get this down in between patients.

[00:30:33] Like let's wolf it down because I need to.

[00:30:36] So I don't get like lightheaded and dizzy and like can't train later.

[00:30:41] But in reality, eating should be a daily experience we have that is a fulfilling one.

[00:30:49] Absolutely.

[00:30:49] And I'm right there with you.

[00:30:50] Here I am with my protein shake.

[00:30:52] That's my lunch, right?

[00:30:53] And it's like, gosh, you know, I'm the dietician teaching you how to eat intuitively.

[00:30:56] And so it happens like we know these things, like we know we should slow down and we know we should take a moment.

[00:31:01] We know we shouldn't be scrolling on our phone while we're eating.

[00:31:04] We should be present, but it doesn't always work in practice.

[00:31:06] So that's why I say you do the best you can.

[00:31:09] And if you bring some self-awareness to it, commonly from what I've learned working with people is there will be some improvement.

[00:31:17] It may never be perfect, but there's usually some sort of improvement.

[00:31:20] And that's my perspective.

[00:31:22] Improvement is better than perfection for sure.

[00:31:24] Okay.

[00:31:24] I'm going to go off what you said there too to reinforce it.

[00:31:28] But just a few weeks ago, I don't know what I was doing, but I came home and I was starving.

[00:31:33] And so I have my meal prep stuff.

[00:31:36] Shout out from Fork Included and all that we work with now.

[00:31:38] But so I had my full meal.

[00:31:41] I was like eight ounces of beef, a cup and a half of rice, a cup and a half of vegetables.

[00:31:47] And I got done and I was still hungry.

[00:31:49] And I was like, I need to go for more.

[00:31:52] But then I was like, let me give myself like 20 minutes here.

[00:31:57] And then I did.

[00:31:58] I was like, oh, like that was that mental side of my brain just still wanted more food because I think I had had a hard day too.

[00:32:06] I was high stress moments at work and some stuff going on with my family.

[00:32:10] And I was like, okay, like, am I hungry?

[00:32:12] Am I anxious?

[00:32:13] Am I, do I need this food or do I just feel like I need this food?

[00:32:17] And I stopped for a minute and just, I put on the TV and watched 20 minutes.

[00:32:20] And I was like, oh, that whole sensation just went away.

[00:32:22] Like my body kind of caught up with time and I felt a lot better.

[00:32:25] Um, so things we definitely need to, to work at now in general too, with our basic nutrition for people, um, what are the common mistakes people are making?

[00:32:39] Not just related to intuitive eating, but just in general, like we talked about protein before.

[00:32:43] Most people aren't eating enough protein, especially females.

[00:32:47] And there's so much overly marketed materials and products that are just have misleading claims.

[00:32:55] Like I remember Kasha used to have a cereal that said, you know, one bowl of cereal has as much protein as an egg.

[00:33:02] And I was like, if you don't know, an egg has six grams of protein, which anyone now, yeah, you should be eating about a gram per pound of body weight.

[00:33:13] So, you know, if you're 150 pound female, six grams is minuscule for what you should be eating in a day.

[00:33:20] People thought that was enough.

[00:33:23] So what, between protein and everything else, what, what are the big things people are, where are people going wrong with their nutrition?

[00:33:30] Yeah.

[00:33:31] So I'll go the protein right away, especially women.

[00:33:34] We're really guilty of that because we like the pastas.

[00:33:36] We like the breads and we don't always gravitate towards the protein.

[00:33:39] I find that the men that I work with, they're more opt to having the beef, having the chicken.

[00:33:44] They love that.

[00:33:45] So a lot of women are low on protein.

[00:33:47] And that's a really important factor, not only for muscle growth and just hormone production and enzyme production, but also very important from a hair, nail, and skin standpoint.

[00:33:58] So if I can provide any motivation there, try to get your protein in for that.

[00:34:03] I also find that a big misconception is fearing carbohydrates.

[00:34:08] This has been very recent with the whole keto epidemic, I call it, because people are like now afraid to eat your, your fruits.

[00:34:17] I have people, I have clients that are like, is it okay for me to have bananas?

[00:34:19] I'm like, please have bananas.

[00:34:21] They're great for you.

[00:34:22] And so people get so afraid of carbohydrates now.

[00:34:25] And it's not that you need to fear carbohydrates.

[00:34:28] It's that we want to make sure that when we're eating carbohydrates, number one, we're getting in some fruits, some vegetables, some whole grains.

[00:34:37] If your digestion can tolerate that and you don't have celiac disease.

[00:34:41] So that way you're getting high quality carbohydrates.

[00:34:44] And I am not going to even demonize refined carbohydrates.

[00:34:48] They have their place to pre-training, post-training.

[00:34:51] If you want to honor a mental craving, go right ahead and do so in a mindful way.

[00:34:56] But if we're talking about the effects on blood sugar, if you're able to pair those refined carbohydrates with a fat or a protein, that will also help aid in a slower release of glucose into the bloodstream.

[00:35:11] Therefore, managing your blood sugar better.

[00:35:14] So it's not that you need to fear carbohydrates.

[00:35:17] It's just that you want to be mindful of the quality of the carbohydrates that you're bringing in.

[00:35:22] And then if you are going to have refined carbohydrates, when it's appropriate, try to pair that with a fat or a protein.

[00:35:28] And that'll have a more positive impact on your blood sugar.

[00:35:32] Because the issue and the notion with carbohydrates is that it's going to drive inflammation up.

[00:35:37] It's going to drive chronic disease.

[00:35:39] And that's not the case if you're choosing the good quality ones.

[00:35:43] You're getting in enough fiber at the end of the day.

[00:35:45] You are pairing most of your carbohydrates with protein or fat or all three.

[00:35:49] You're exercising regularly.

[00:35:51] So carbohydrates are not a bad thing to have.

[00:35:54] They're our body's number one preferred energy fuel source.

[00:35:57] So your body thrives on carbohydrate.

[00:36:01] Another one, gut health is so big right now.

[00:36:04] And I love that because it is very important to care about your gut and to do things purposefully

[00:36:10] to promote a healthy gut microbiome.

[00:36:13] It affects our entire body.

[00:36:15] It affects our mental health, our overall inflammation response from our entire body.

[00:36:20] But we don't need to buy the $60 greens powder.

[00:36:25] I hate greens powders.

[00:36:27] I will tell everybody and anybody that listens to me, don't buy them.

[00:36:30] Don't buy them.

[00:36:30] And I know some people love them.

[00:36:31] And I work with First Form and they have a greens powder that people love.

[00:36:35] I don't recommend it.

[00:36:36] Save your money.

[00:36:37] Buy fruits and vegetables.

[00:36:37] We don't know what the efficacy of those powders really are in terms of the health benefit.

[00:36:44] And we've actually seen some data where there's some pretty heavy metals being derived from

[00:36:49] some of those greens powders.

[00:36:51] So I think the greens powders are very overhyped for a gut health benefit.

[00:36:56] So I always like to put that one out there when I can.

[00:37:01] And lastly, this is a little bit separate from the nutrition piece of things, but it's a big fad right now.

[00:37:10] Would be Ozempic or weight loss medications in terms of really helping to promote a healthier lifestyle

[00:37:18] or a better rate of weight loss.

[00:37:20] And I find that right now with Ozempic, for people that are taking that, their appetites are extremely low.

[00:37:27] Metabolism is very low because of that.

[00:37:29] And then they're having these food aversions and they're feeling icked out with certain foods.

[00:37:36] And then that relationship with food is very much so compromised and challenged during the usage of the medication, but also thereafter.

[00:37:43] So not exactly nutritionally related, but another big thing that's hype in the media right now that I really wanted to just also add in there as we're chatting.

[00:37:54] Yeah.

[00:37:55] I want to say I have so many patients come in and we ask for a lot of their nutrition background too when we're treating patients because systemically, if you have things going on nutritionally, like it makes it harder to help you rehab as fast as you want to.

[00:38:10] So many people come in that buy athletic greens or AG one.

[00:38:15] And it's the biggest waste of money that you're spending.

[00:38:19] It's like a hundred dollars a month for this little packet of greens.

[00:38:22] And I'm pretty sure it's a, it's a, what do you call it?

[00:38:29] Shit.

[00:38:30] It's basically a multivitamin, a very expensive overpriced multivitamin.

[00:38:35] And go get sense.

[00:38:37] I can't.

[00:38:38] Well, and it's a, the, the formula, the like secret formula that you don't even know the dosage.

[00:38:43] Why can't I think of the name of it?

[00:38:45] Yeah.

[00:38:45] So AG one is a hundred dollar proprietary blend.

[00:38:49] So you don't even know what you're getting.

[00:38:50] It's the biggest waste of money that I see patients spending money on.

[00:38:54] So you should absolutely stop spending your money on greens in general, eat fruits and vegetables.

[00:39:00] Um, or just get a less expensive green supplement.

[00:39:03] If you really hate vegetables, because there's just as good ones out there that are like a third of the price.

[00:39:10] Yeah.

[00:39:10] Or even a quarter of the price.

[00:39:12] Um, so yeah, don't spend your money on those, even though Andrew Huberman, you know, is probably making money off them for promoting it on his podcast and everything.

[00:39:20] It's, it's not worth it.

[00:39:21] Um, they've done a great job with marketing, but again, this is part of the problem of people spending money on things that aren't the real solution to their issues.

[00:39:32] Um, and so, um, what was the other piece to that?

[00:39:37] So, so you said processed foods or, or, or refined grains can be good.

[00:39:42] Um, what about more processed foods?

[00:39:44] What is your view on those?

[00:39:47] So technically everything's processed.

[00:39:49] We can really get down a rabbit hole of like what's considered process.

[00:39:52] What's not.

[00:39:53] And then we can have the conversation of, well, there's chemicals in processed food.

[00:39:57] Water is a chemical.

[00:39:58] And so that's my perspective on it.

[00:40:00] I think processed foods have their place, especially as a dietitian that's working with people in eating disorder treatment.

[00:40:08] My clientele might be absolutely scared of cookies, of processed foods.

[00:40:14] And a big part of our recovery work is learning how to incorporate those foods and not feel afraid and not feel guilty and scared of those foods.

[00:40:20] I think that applies to the general population.

[00:40:23] And I think instead of saying, I'm going to restrict processed foods because they're bad for me.

[00:40:29] Instead, let's modify how we're experiencing those foods and how we're eating those foods.

[00:40:35] But our behaviors are like with those foods.

[00:40:37] It's usually not the food.

[00:40:39] That's the problem.

[00:40:40] It's the behavior with that food.

[00:40:42] That is the problem.

[00:40:43] And with processed foods, it's much easier to over consume them.

[00:40:48] They're more highly palatable.

[00:40:50] They make these in food science labs to do that, like Doritos, the company there.

[00:40:54] They put in a ton of research.

[00:40:56] So that way you want to keep eating those Doritos and you don't want to put them down.

[00:41:00] And so it's not that you can't have the Doritos.

[00:41:02] It's just we want to navigate that more mindfully.

[00:41:05] So instead of taking the bag of Doritos to the couch, let's put them in a bowl and let's have our proteins in our vegetables, in our fiber throughout the rest of the day, have our water, exercise regularly.

[00:41:16] And I strongly believe that all foods can fit.

[00:41:19] I don't think that anybody needs to restrict processed foods altogether.

[00:41:24] But do we want them to be the majority of our diet?

[00:41:27] Probably not.

[00:41:28] We're probably going to miss out on a lot of nutrients if we do that.

[00:41:31] So instead of restricting, let's try to make the foundation of our diet whole food based and think about what can we add to our diet to make ourselves healthier, make ourselves feel better, aid in our digestion, while also finding ways to incorporate those processed foods that we enjoy from a mental perspective without it necessarily overtaking the rest of our diet and compromising our health.

[00:41:58] That's kind of my viewpoint on it.

[00:42:01] And so this brings me back to gut health too of what is the research showing these days on – because I've heard and seen multiple different arguments out there.

[00:42:12] So what is the research actually saying on how processed foods and some of these like sugar alcohols and sugar substitutes or even some of these fiber substitutes and things we're seeing now?

[00:42:25] How are all these different things that are affecting the gut or what are we seeing with this?

[00:42:34] So the research that we do have right now specifically on sucralose, so Splenda is a big one that we can clearly say has a negative impact on the gut microbiome in terms of some of the bacterial strains.

[00:42:48] So when you're consuming – so when you're consuming – and if we think about this, it really does come down to the dosage of the amount of artificial sweeteners that you're having or intaking on a daily basis that kind of contributes to the severity of the issue in the gut microbiome.

[00:43:05] But we do see a shift in the presentation of bacteria.

[00:43:09] There is more gaseous producing bacteria in people who have components of sucralose, more artificial sweeteners than those that don't.

[00:43:19] So we do see that.

[00:43:20] We do have that in the research.

[00:43:22] I would say it really comes down to the dosage.

[00:43:26] Like how much are you having?

[00:43:27] Are you having 10 Splenda packets in your coffee?

[00:43:30] We might want to work on that.

[00:43:33] But if you're having two and you're moving about your day, I'd say you're probably fine.

[00:43:39] But that's my perspective.

[00:43:41] Do you know someone that's had 10 Splenda packets in their coffee?

[00:43:44] I do.

[00:43:45] I do.

[00:43:46] Yes.

[00:43:47] I know.

[00:43:48] And we see it a lot with the eating disorder treatment.

[00:43:51] People really abuse the artificial sweeteners.

[00:43:55] And then what about Stevia?

[00:44:01] Because Stevia is more popular of a sugar or sweetener substitute these days.

[00:44:06] So is there anything we know about that?

[00:44:09] Or has it not been around long enough yet for us to really know?

[00:44:12] And then the other thing too is like we're not seeing right now,

[00:44:14] but we've seen more and more gut health issues popping up nowadays.

[00:44:19] And we have more and more processed foods.

[00:44:20] So do we think there's some correlation?

[00:44:23] We just can't prove it yet?

[00:44:25] Or what are we thinking there?

[00:44:27] And what's the future look like with this stuff?

[00:44:30] Yeah.

[00:44:30] So Stevia is actually considered a natural sweetener.

[00:44:34] And I would say that's probably a more gut-friendly sweetener in comparison to something like Splenda.

[00:44:40] I'll say right now, I use Splenda.

[00:44:41] That's my preferred.

[00:44:42] But that said, it's kind of the dosage.

[00:44:46] So I'm sure with Stevia, depending on how much you have,

[00:44:49] that could probably cause some issues for some people like GI-wise in terms of like potentially diarrhea,

[00:44:53] maybe some bloat, some gassiness.

[00:44:56] And that can also be said for higher sugar.

[00:44:58] If you're using just general raw sugar, that could still have an impact too.

[00:45:03] In terms of the issues that we're seeing with people's gut in processed foods in modern day,

[00:45:10] I think there could be absolutely a relationship there.

[00:45:14] Because if people are having mostly processed foods in their diet,

[00:45:18] and they're lacking in their fruit and vegetable fiber intake in a diverse diet in terms of the variety of fruits and vegetables,

[00:45:27] that will have the most significant impact on what the gut microbiome looks like.

[00:45:32] So if somebody's having the majority of their diet processed foods,

[00:45:35] they're probably lacking in that fiber, those fruits and veggies.

[00:45:37] And that's going to be the main component of prebiotics that we get in our diet to feed the good bacteria in the gut.

[00:45:45] Now, I also question this.

[00:45:49] Stress is at a different level for most people than ever before.

[00:45:53] And I'm a strong believer that IBS, and even in some cases IBD, depending on when they're diagnosed,

[00:46:00] I know there's a kind of chicken or the egg situation.

[00:46:03] I think stress is one of the primary drivers of IBS.

[00:46:06] And we commonly see IBS present more in women than men.

[00:46:11] And not to say that men don't have stress.

[00:46:14] They absolutely do.

[00:46:15] But if we think about what a woman's body goes through throughout the life,

[00:46:18] you know, getting a menstrual cycle, carrying a baby, being a home taker,

[00:46:23] maybe also, you know, working at the same time,

[00:46:26] feeling like they need to constantly care for people.

[00:46:28] I would say the emotional stress for women in some cases can be pretty high.

[00:46:34] And so where we do see that correlation with women being more likely to have IBS,

[00:46:40] I do feel as though there is a relationship with the gut issues and the amount of stress we're all under.

[00:46:47] Because emails are stress to us.

[00:46:49] Our body doesn't know the difference between an email being stressful versus a predator,

[00:46:53] because our bodies haven't adapted to that point yet.

[00:46:56] It would be nice if they could.

[00:46:57] But they're not there in terms of evolution.

[00:47:01] So is it the processed foods?

[00:47:03] Maybe a little.

[00:47:04] Is it the stress?

[00:47:05] Maybe.

[00:47:05] I don't know.

[00:47:07] It's interesting you say this.

[00:47:08] So I've never really said this publicly before, but I was dealing.

[00:47:14] So I had a parasitic infection and all this stuff and had functional IBS for three plus years.

[00:47:23] And then talking to my therapist and things.

[00:47:26] And we went and I had a lot of life changes recently.

[00:47:30] And I had a patient come in that started using ketamine.

[00:47:34] And he was like, and he had like had a horrific past with an accident and things and just some PTSD.

[00:47:40] But he was like, I hadn't seen him for a year.

[00:47:42] And he came back in and he was like a whole new person.

[00:47:44] And I was like, what changed?

[00:47:46] And I started doing ketamine.

[00:47:48] And he was like, you know, just for the stress and everything.

[00:47:49] So I actually talked to my therapist about it and I went and I started.

[00:47:53] So I had still been dealing with IBS at this point.

[00:47:56] And after like five times of doing an at-home ketamine treatment, 95% of my issues that I was still having were gone.

[00:48:06] Wow.

[00:48:06] That's so interesting.

[00:48:08] And there was a, granted, I don't have like, I want to do it as an experiment for my patients more.

[00:48:13] So I'm always on the outer edge of what new alternatives do we have in medicine now that are better than the traditional medical model has to offer.

[00:48:21] But I noticed that I didn't have the urge to go.

[00:48:26] My consistency was better.

[00:48:28] But my whole brain kind of, you know, in a sense, like those neural networks they show with these treatments are getting rewired.

[00:48:35] And that you think about things differently.

[00:48:37] And I just didn't have as much worry and impulsiveness and rumination about things all day of like, oh, what if so-and-so, what if this happens to so-and-so or this and that?

[00:48:47] And like, that's been one of my biggest things of like, we all know about the, you know, gut-brain connection for the most part.

[00:48:54] That was the first time like I really witnessed it for myself of like, and even sometimes now I'll notice.

[00:49:00] So I'll kind of do a tune-up session here and there if I'm really feeling anxious or something.

[00:49:05] And a lot of times when I feel stressed, I'll start to have symptoms again.

[00:49:12] And I was under a lot of stress for a long time between opening two business and everything.

[00:49:15] And then you just become cyclical.

[00:49:19] And it wasn't until I started doing it, every time I would do it, I would be better for like three weeks at a time.

[00:49:26] And it's kind of grown over time as things are working for me.

[00:49:29] But definitely something there of stress is not something to just brush over and say, oh, no.

[00:49:35] And people don't really realize how much stress we're truly under all day.

[00:49:38] Even just looking at your goddamn phone.

[00:49:41] Yes.

[00:49:42] Yes.

[00:49:43] Your doom scroll at the end of the night, it's like it's stimulating your brain.

[00:49:46] And it's going to be creating problems.

[00:49:49] So that's really cool.

[00:49:50] Thank you for sharing that.

[00:49:52] Because we – oh, go right ahead.

[00:49:54] I did see too.

[00:49:55] There are some studies out there showing that like ketamine does affect the gut microbiome positively and is helping people with IBS.

[00:50:02] So that's another reason I went on because I didn't have an end solution basically for myself.

[00:50:08] And I knew I was still stressed.

[00:50:09] And I was like, let's explore this and see what happens.

[00:50:11] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:50:13] They use it a lot in eating disorder treatment.

[00:50:16] And it was really cool to see some of the alternative therapies in my internship experience.

[00:50:20] And it changed people's lives.

[00:50:22] It really – like it's amazing what we're finding ketamine can do in a medicinal situation.

[00:50:28] So that's super cool.

[00:50:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:50:30] And so off of that too, going back.

[00:50:35] So you mentioned Ozempic and the weight loss drugs.

[00:50:38] So they fucking work.

[00:50:43] They do.

[00:50:44] They do.

[00:50:45] They do in the short term.

[00:50:45] People are losing weight.

[00:50:48] What are the long-term issues we're not seeing with this?

[00:50:52] What are the short-term things that people are still struggling with?

[00:50:58] You know, I know there's a lot of side effects to them that we're seeing directly.

[00:51:02] But what are the indirect ones that are coming from this too?

[00:51:05] Yeah.

[00:51:06] So big one that I'm seeing even right now is a ton of SIBO-related cases.

[00:51:12] So for people that are on something like Ozempic, their digestion slows down significantly.

[00:51:18] The gastric emptying is so compromised.

[00:51:22] Some people actually end up with full-on gastroparesis or paralyzed muscles of the stomach.

[00:51:28] So that's something you could live with forever, which is tough.

[00:51:31] And I also strongly believe that we're going to see, and we are currently seeing, an increase in binge eating disorders and severe body dysmorphia as well.

[00:51:43] I've actually had the pleasure to work with quite a few people who have decided to come off of the weight loss medication itself.

[00:51:50] And seeing the way that their hunger cues just swing so drastically from going pretty much nauseous all the time to then feeling like this insatiable hunger.

[00:52:02] And then this poor digestive system because things are slow.

[00:52:06] It is a recipe for, number one, poor digestion, really uncomfortable situation there.

[00:52:11] But also a nice environment for weight regain because you were so restricted because the drug makes you so low appetite.

[00:52:19] So most people are having difficulty getting in even like 1,200 calories, which is a very low intake for those that aren't super familiar with what kind of calories would be appropriate.

[00:52:27] Very low intake.

[00:52:29] And now we have this compromised metabolism, this compromised thyroid function, poor digestion.

[00:52:34] So we have poor estrogen clearance, and that's also going to aid in poor thyroid function.

[00:52:39] But then we have the psychological component of food that is now really messed up.

[00:52:43] And some people live with those aversions after coming off Ozempic for a little bit of time.

[00:52:47] Other people, they go right back to normal.

[00:52:50] But from what I have observed, it is this uncontrollable eating urges.

[00:52:56] So binge eating disorder coming up for people.

[00:52:59] And then people can end up down a rabbit hole.

[00:53:01] They don't want to gain the weight.

[00:53:02] So then they start purging.

[00:53:03] And then they try to start restricting.

[00:53:05] And it's a very, very slippery slope.

[00:53:08] So in the short term, it works.

[00:53:10] It does.

[00:53:10] It works for weight loss.

[00:53:12] Do I think it's a good fit for the majority of people that are getting prescribed it?

[00:53:18] I don't believe that.

[00:53:19] I think it's overprescribed right now.

[00:53:22] You can go get a prescription at a medical spa that I go to to go get my hydrafacials at,

[00:53:27] which is crazy.

[00:53:28] And they're a dermatologist.

[00:53:30] And all respect to them.

[00:53:31] They're very intelligent in that regard.

[00:53:32] But you should not be okay to prescribe Ozempic.

[00:53:36] You shouldn't.

[00:53:37] You have no idea the effects that it can have on somebody long term.

[00:53:40] And that's what's possible.

[00:53:43] Dermatologists are prescribing Ozempic?

[00:53:46] Yeah.

[00:53:47] What the fuck?

[00:53:48] It's like a beauty treatment.

[00:53:50] Think of it that way.

[00:53:51] Because these places, these medical spas, they can do non-invasive lipo.

[00:53:55] They can do these different kinds of treatments.

[00:53:58] So I recently saw somewhere I literally go as a client or a patient for hydrafacials.

[00:54:04] They were offering, we're now offering Ozempic shots.

[00:54:07] And I was like, no, that's my nightmare.

[00:54:09] Do you still go there?

[00:54:12] So my friend works there right now, but she's going to open up her own private practice soon.

[00:54:16] So when she's out of there, I'm out of there.

[00:54:19] Yeah.

[00:54:22] The other thing, though, too, now is Ozempic has become another thing that everyone's using.

[00:54:29] And now it's like you have to be on the wagon to weight loss.

[00:54:32] Like even I was watching the roast of Tom Brady the other night and it was getting mentioned with Jeff Ross, who's like, oh, how do you use the weight?

[00:54:40] Like Ozempic.

[00:54:40] Like you put the ick in Ozempic.

[00:54:44] But it's just this thing that like, oh, everyone's doing it.

[00:54:48] So I'm going to do it to lose weight.

[00:54:49] And it's easy.

[00:54:50] And I don't have to, I don't really have to try.

[00:54:52] But like at what cost, especially for younger folks that, yeah, like if you're going on it, I've heard it's kind of assumed you're going to be on it for life.

[00:55:03] But what is the deal with that, too?

[00:55:05] That's the thing is like if you're going to go on it, plan on being on it for a very long time if you don't want to have all of these negative post side effects like when you come off.

[00:55:17] I also think for so for some people, like they'll come to me.

[00:55:21] Will that be worse, though?

[00:55:23] Like the longer on it, the harder the withdrawal effect is going to be?

[00:55:27] Well, that's the thing is like so you stay on it to avoid that post period, right?

[00:55:32] But then eventually at some point in your life, I don't care if it's 20 years from now, whatever, you're probably going to come off unless you're a true diabetic and you need the medication.

[00:55:40] So you're just prolonging the horrors of what is coming off Ozempic or a medication similar.

[00:55:47] And it's like if you're not going to be able to sustain that way of living and you know that there are these negative side effects, why do it?

[00:55:58] But people are so desperate sometimes to lose weight, to feel better in their own skin, external validation.

[00:56:06] It's being kind of pushed as the norm.

[00:56:09] People are willing to take that risk.

[00:56:12] I also see it in the bodybuilding space.

[00:56:14] There are women, beautiful women that make these decisions with these anabolics and they end up totally viralized.

[00:56:21] And they're like, well, I really wanted to do well in my show and win.

[00:56:24] And like to them in that moment, it's worth it.

[00:56:26] So I used kind of that parallel.

[00:56:28] I'm like, well, it's similar to the bodybuilding space.

[00:56:30] Like people are just willing to do whatever to make themselves happy in that moment.

[00:56:33] But they don't think about that long term.

[00:56:35] And for people that don't know, viralized basically means you start to get the effects of the male androgenic traits.

[00:56:43] Correct.

[00:56:43] So the deep voice, the Adam's apple, things like that.

[00:56:47] Yeah.

[00:56:48] The hair.

[00:56:49] Yeah.

[00:56:50] And I have friends that have made decisions at a very young age when maybe they weren't thinking the best.

[00:56:57] And they're stuck with that for the rest of their life.

[00:56:59] Their voice has changed.

[00:57:00] They've got the facial hair, the features, whatever.

[00:57:04] And it's like once you make that choice, kind of similar with Ozempic, once you make that choice, you are taking the chance to come off of that medication and potentially end up with an eating disorder or terrible gut issues after.

[00:57:15] And just weight regain.

[00:57:17] We see that the weight regain is worse.

[00:57:18] And you lose more muscle on Ozempic, even when you're strength training.

[00:57:22] So something to consider.

[00:57:26] Anything else you have to say on that?

[00:57:29] No.

[00:57:29] That's about it.

[00:57:30] That's about it on Ozempic.

[00:57:31] I could go on and on, but that's it.

[00:57:33] I want to do a whole podcast on the weight loss medications.

[00:57:37] So maybe we can have you back on for that or if you have another person that's like a real expert in that realm.

[00:57:43] Yes.

[00:57:44] That would be fun.

[00:57:45] Yeah.

[00:57:45] That would be awesome.

[00:57:46] Let's do it.

[00:57:47] Okay.

[00:57:50] So that's our intro.

[00:57:52] Now into eating intuitively.

[00:57:57] So your dog says hello again.

[00:57:59] He says hello.

[00:58:00] He's waking up.

[00:58:01] So intuitive eating.

[00:58:03] So I just kind of want to go through this as something that people can take and start to utilize or practice with themselves.

[00:58:11] Because even I, I've been someone I've been through the ringer with.

[00:58:14] I've always been overweight my whole life.

[00:58:16] I don't think I ever had a horrible relationship with food, but I always thought I needed to eat a certain way.

[00:58:23] Even that.

[00:58:24] So for me, it was actually interesting because I always ate less than I was told I needed to eat by the people that were doing better than me in bodybuilding or weightlifting or this and that.

[00:58:35] And even some dietitians or nutritionists had told me like, you're under eating.

[00:58:39] You need to do this.

[00:58:40] And I went from, you know, I was 235 pounds, almost 240 on a 2000 calorie diet and not losing weight.

[00:58:50] So then I was like, okay, I guess I have to eat more.

[00:58:52] I was like, I don't feel hungry.

[00:58:53] I feel fine.

[00:58:55] I feel fine.

[00:58:55] So I reversed dieted up to 3000 and gained some weight and then stayed there for a while and then went back down and could not lose weight.

[00:59:05] And I did genetic testing.

[00:59:07] And it turns out I have a gene that basically says my metabolism is more efficient than most people's.

[00:59:13] So I need to be at even more of a caloric deficit.

[00:59:15] So I need to be about 20% less than regularly prescribed.

[00:59:19] And that was kind of where I intuitively felt I needed to be.

[00:59:23] Yeah.

[00:59:23] And now I eat that way regularly and I magically lost 40 pounds and have been much healthier in a way.

[00:59:30] Because I was trying to force feed myself.

[00:59:32] But there is a lot too intuitive eating that I want to go over because, again, it sounds very simple, but there's a lot to that.

[00:59:41] So how is this going to be the solution for a lot of people that have been struggling for years with weight loss and just living a healthy lifestyle?

[00:59:48] Yeah.

[00:59:49] So I would say, number one, it's going to give you freedom with food in ways that maybe you haven't experienced with it before.

[00:59:57] And when you've had some sort of dieting history, there is usually some level of restriction, whether it be from certain food sources, whether it be actual intake is lower.

[01:00:08] There is some form of restriction which will impact your quality of life to some degree.

[01:00:13] Now, everybody's tolerance for that looks a little different.

[01:00:15] So for those that have been chronic yo-yo dieters, commonly their metabolism isn't doing so great at that point because they've gone through the restriction, then they usually regain the weight and it's kind of like binge eating.

[01:00:28] So they go from restrict to binge eat, restrict binge eat, and maybe some periods of time where they're more so like out of maintenance.

[01:00:34] But usually that cycle just kind of continues.

[01:00:37] And when you're eating enough food on a regular basis through intuitive eating, that's actually going to benefit your metabolism.

[01:00:45] So it kind of gets you back to a more homeostatic place with your metabolism.

[01:00:49] And that in turn is going to allow for a more responsive body to muscle growth, to strength performance, and just generalized health in terms of hormone function, digestion.

[01:01:01] So it's not a weight loss diet.

[01:01:04] And I like to make that very clear that it is not a weight loss diet.

[01:01:09] The purpose with intuitive eating is not to lose weight.

[01:01:11] It's more so to find some sort of happy medium and live at your body weight set point.

[01:01:17] And everybody has some sort of body weight set point that their body thrives at.

[01:01:23] And usually you can fluctuate between 5 and 15 pounds of that, and you're within that range.

[01:01:29] So when eating intuitively, you're able to live at that body weight set point with, I don't want to say minimal work, but it's not as hard as like when you're trying to push weight down lower, go past a set point in terms of level of leanness,

[01:01:42] or on the opposite spectrum for a lot of men or women that want to gain muscle or get as big as they can for whatever the reason may be.

[01:01:51] It's much harder to get to that point, you know, constantly force feeding and being at a higher body weight.

[01:01:56] So intuitive eating is really great for those that are kind of ready for what I would say body acceptance and understanding that their body lives in this range, body weight set point.

[01:02:06] And they're going to make that set point as healthy as possible in terms of the amount of muscle mass they have, continuously engaging in exercise, fueling their body properly.

[01:02:18] So that's kind of where I think it fits best.

[01:02:21] And that's a hard place to be because a lot of people don't accept their body, but it's something you can work towards.

[01:02:28] Can you explain the set point theory for people?

[01:02:31] Yeah.

[01:02:32] So body weight set point is a body weight that we are all kind of, you're kind of born with it.

[01:02:38] I'll share like personal experience just so that way you have some sort of visual.

[01:02:41] Like my body weight set point is between 130 and 140 pounds.

[01:02:44] That's where my body can just kind of maintain without me doing anything very drastic.

[01:02:48] I can eat intuitively there.

[01:02:50] I can engage in a normal amount of cardio and a normal amount of strength training, which is for me right now, three times a week of strength training, four days of cardio.

[01:02:58] And I can maintain very easily with that.

[01:03:01] It doesn't take a whole lot of work.

[01:03:03] And so at this body weight set point, I'm getting a regular menstrual cycle.

[01:03:07] I'm sleeping well.

[01:03:08] My body doesn't feel overly hungry or very, very fatigued.

[01:03:13] I feel healthy here.

[01:03:15] My body's at homeostasis, meaning in a balance here.

[01:03:18] And it doesn't take too much work to stay here.

[01:03:22] Whereas during my bodybuilding days, I was getting really lean and my body did not want to go there.

[01:03:27] That is a place it didn't want to live.

[01:03:28] So that would be very far away from my body weight set point.

[01:03:32] So body weight set point theory is more so body weight that we're genetically kind of predisposed, predisposition to, and it can maintain there fairly easily.

[01:03:42] And for different people too, that's going to have a different body fat percentage too, correct?

[01:03:47] Like some people might sit at 7% body fat and have a six pack abs where some of us guys like me might have a little bit of a higher set point of our body just wants to hold that.

[01:04:00] And I've seen that too of, yeah, I had a bunch of stress and things.

[01:04:03] And I went up to 240 and then dieted down all the way and was restricted to a degree.

[01:04:08] And I had to work somewhat hard to get where I wanted to.

[01:04:11] And it was, but I was still having fun on the weekends and going out and having drinks with friends and things.

[01:04:15] But like during the week, I was pretty strict and a little bit more calorically restricted.

[01:04:19] But I hit my goal to meet weight for the competition I want to do.

[01:04:23] And I've since gone off of the restriction and I bounced back to where I was about four years ago, sitting between 200, 205.

[01:04:32] And again, without any real work at it.

[01:04:35] I'm eating when I'm hungry.

[01:04:37] I'm not restricting.

[01:04:38] I'm going out on the weekends.

[01:04:39] I'm having a little bit more food even.

[01:04:41] And I'm just sitting right where I used to be.

[01:04:44] Yeah.

[01:04:45] And it's like, it's nice to be there because, yeah, it doesn't take that much work.

[01:04:50] But that's not always where we want to be like, I'd like to have the six pack abs come back again that I had in November.

[01:04:59] But that's work to get there.

[01:05:00] And it's not sustainable for long periods of time either for a lot of people.

[01:05:04] Absolutely.

[01:05:05] Absolutely.

[01:05:05] So with intuitive eating though, can people still effectively lose weight by just practicing intuitive eating?

[01:05:16] It depends.

[01:05:17] So if somebody, you know, is eating in a caloric surplus all the time, maybe they're having like a lot of sodas, sugar sweetened beverages.

[01:05:26] They're really not focusing on protein.

[01:05:29] The diet quality doesn't look great.

[01:05:32] Maybe they're not exercising a lot.

[01:05:34] And then they learn what intuitive eating is.

[01:05:36] And they're following rule of threes.

[01:05:38] They're creating balanced meals.

[01:05:39] They're prioritizing protein.

[01:05:41] Maybe they start engaging in some physical activity.

[01:05:44] By doing that, they might lose weight if they had been in a surplus of energy beforehand.

[01:05:51] And now they're kind of getting into more of like a maintenance intake or it's a deficit from where they were previously.

[01:05:58] So in theory, you can lose weight with intuitive eating, but not intentionally is it very common.

[01:06:07] I find for most people, they're not going to lose weight with intuitive eating unless your diet quality and exercise behaviors were vastly different beforehand.

[01:06:22] So should people that have struggled with yo-yo diets that don't like where they are, that want to lose weight because we know diet culture is not working, should they try intuitive eating?

[01:06:37] I think so.

[01:06:38] I think so.

[01:06:39] And here's how I very kindly convince people to give it a try is, well, what you've been doing isn't working.

[01:06:45] And a lot of the time when somebody's had that yo-yo history, we open up the space.

[01:06:50] We end up having a conversation.

[01:06:51] Their relationship with food is very compromised at that point.

[01:06:54] So even at that point, I wouldn't feel comfortable having them track macros a lot of the time.

[01:06:58] Um, that's also a conversation that we will have too is like, well, we could do flexible dieting with tracking macros.

[01:07:05] And usually at that point, that's also a much lesser intensive form of dieting for people.

[01:07:11] And they can feel pretty good with that.

[01:07:14] But for those that have had that history of yo-yo dieting, there is usually some disordered eating that is arose.

[01:07:20] So we have to really work on that first before we can really optimize the weight loss piece of things.

[01:07:27] If we get to a place where they're mentally healthy to do so, physically healthy to do so.

[01:07:33] And usually when I'm having this conversation, the person has to be accepting of the fact they're not going to lose weight when they're eating intuitively.

[01:07:40] And they need to go into that experience understanding that.

[01:07:44] But they can also acknowledge that they might be able to build more muscle during that time.

[01:07:49] They might see recomposition of their waistline because they're fueling their body properly, but they're also exercising.

[01:07:56] And so as we know, cardio has a really wonderful benefit to the waistline.

[01:08:00] Even if you're not in a deficit, you can see your waist circumference come in from regular cardio exposure.

[01:08:05] So that's something I will also talk about with them is just as a result of you fueling and exercising, you can see positive changes in body composition.

[01:08:15] But it's not going to be this one pound per week loss like you might have seen on, you know, the Atkins diet or whatever it is.

[01:08:23] And they need to go into that understanding it.

[01:08:25] So I never advertise it as a weight loss diet.

[01:08:28] But usually people that are ready to do some form of intuitive eating, they're sick of the weight loss perspective of things in terms of nutrition.

[01:08:37] They're ready for something new.

[01:08:38] And they're ready to try to accept their body a little bit more.

[01:08:42] And if they do decide, you know, after doing some work, three, six months, 12 months of intuitive eating, repairing that relationship with food in their body, they're like, well, maybe I want to try tracking macros or maybe I want to do a little bit more cardio than what I'm used to.

[01:08:56] We have those conversations.

[01:08:59] I'll say this.

[01:09:00] A lot of the time, the perspective changes and they kind of learn to step into what I call body acceptance, which is really cool.

[01:09:06] But it's not easy.

[01:09:07] It's hard.

[01:09:07] It's a lot of hard conversations for sure.

[01:09:10] So let's go through some of these principles of intuitive eating and why this could be the solution with people.

[01:09:17] So number one, reject the diet mentality.

[01:09:21] Let's talk about that a little bit.

[01:09:23] Yeah.

[01:09:24] So diet mentality is going to be doing something with your nutrition that is solely going to help you lose weight and you really don't care about any other benefits.

[01:09:34] So like extreme dieting.

[01:09:36] So we'll use that 1200 calorie diet as an example.

[01:09:39] For people that are constantly going on those low, low calorie diets or very restrictive diets in order to just see that weight loss, we're rejecting that with intuitive eating.

[01:09:48] As I've said, it's not a weight loss diet.

[01:09:50] It's just a way of eating to fuel your body properly, to nourish your body.

[01:09:56] So that's how we reject that diet mentality.

[01:09:58] We lose the expectation of wanting to lose weight.

[01:10:02] Now, I try to promote people to have this idea of body acceptance.

[01:10:06] Okay, go ahead.

[01:10:07] Will losing that idea of trying to lose weight probably help people lose weight in the long run?

[01:10:12] Do you think?

[01:10:14] I think so.

[01:10:15] I think it can for people that feel as though they need to lose weight for some reason.

[01:10:21] So for example, somebody living in a larger body, if they're having chronic disease related issues, you know, and that's an area that we need to explore in order to manage their chronic disease.

[01:10:29] A lot of the time, if they step into intuitive eating, and it's funny, it's like they stop trying to diet.

[01:10:35] Sometimes that weight loss begins to take place for them because the eating behaviors don't yo-yo as much anymore because that big pendulum upswing of the binge eat, and then you restrict.

[01:10:45] Again, you're messing with that metabolism.

[01:10:47] So yeah, it can happen that way.

[01:10:49] For sure.

[01:10:51] Okay.

[01:10:51] And then go on with what you were saying.

[01:10:54] Oh, yeah.

[01:10:55] So I was just going to say, you know, at that point, we're trying to have body acceptance, but body acceptance doesn't mean that you are hunky-dory with your body all the time and that there's absolutely zero things you want to change about your body.

[01:11:07] It's valid to have things you want to change about your body, but you're not putting yourself in harm's way to do so, if that makes sense.

[01:11:15] It's okay to want these things.

[01:11:17] You don't have to necessarily act upon it with restrictive dieting or overexercising practices.

[01:11:22] So in the grand scheme of things, it's like, let's just start to slowly change the lifestyle behaviors and habits and success will probably come from that too.

[01:11:30] Yeah.

[01:11:31] Yeah.

[01:11:32] And if we really think about health, health comes in many different sizes to our point about body weight set point.

[01:11:37] You know, someone's set point might be 7% body fat.

[01:11:39] Another person's might be 16.

[01:11:42] And it sucks because, yeah, there's like society out there that puts a lot of pressure on us to look a certain way.

[01:11:47] But at the end of the day, if we're healthy, our labs are coming back good.

[01:11:51] We feel good.

[01:11:51] We feel strong.

[01:11:52] We have endurance.

[01:11:54] Ultimately, that's the most important thing.

[01:11:56] But I know that can be hard.

[01:11:58] Yeah.

[01:11:59] Number two, honor your hunger.

[01:12:00] Sure.

[01:12:03] So kind of going back to that discussion of honoring that mental and physical hunger.

[01:12:10] So not eating past that point of fullness and allowing yourself to get to that point of fullness.

[01:12:16] Also allowing yourself to have the foods that you want to, not the foods that you have to have.

[01:12:22] Yes, we want fruits and vegetables.

[01:12:24] That's great.

[01:12:25] But we want to honor that mental hunger too.

[01:12:27] So if you're like me, you love a little sweet treat at the end of the night, have that sweet treat.

[01:12:31] But let's do it in a mindful way and learning how to honor that hunger as you're enjoying that sweet treat and respect that hunger cue.

[01:12:41] Number three, make peace with food.

[01:12:45] So this could look different for many people in terms of what that looks like.

[01:12:49] But not fearing certain foods.

[01:12:53] Not feeling like you can't have your favorite fun food is what I like to call it.

[01:12:58] And not feeling like you need to eat the spinach that you absolutely hate because you think it's good for you.

[01:13:04] Find something else.

[01:13:04] You can find those nutrients elsewhere.

[01:13:06] And making peace with food in that way so that your mental perspective with food is healthy and happy and kind of at balance is how I would define it.

[01:13:18] Okay.

[01:13:19] And then challenge the food police.

[01:13:22] Oh, so this is the aunt or the mom or the grandmother or whoever else at your family dinner table.

[01:13:29] And they're telling you, you shouldn't be eating that because it's not good for you.

[01:13:34] Or that's too many carbohydrates, whatever it is, right?

[01:13:37] Is that an Italian accent that just came out?

[01:13:39] I don't know what that was.

[01:13:40] I have no idea.

[01:13:41] That was like maybe a little Boston accent with a little Jersey.

[01:13:45] I don't even know what that was.

[01:13:47] I've been watching too much Sopranos the past year.

[01:13:49] You and Connor.

[01:13:50] Connor just did the same thing the other day.

[01:13:52] You guys are the same.

[01:13:54] That's so – I got to meet Connor because I feel like we're going to be buddies.

[01:13:57] This is going to be my buddy here.

[01:13:59] I love it.

[01:14:01] But challenging that food police, like the coworker that's questioning why you have said food in the back room.

[01:14:06] Mind your business.

[01:14:07] Mind your business.

[01:14:08] And say that respectfully.

[01:14:09] And this is something I run into a lot with clients when they're eating intuitively.

[01:14:13] And they're bringing in foods that maybe are seen as unhealthy.

[01:14:18] And they are receiving judgment.

[01:14:20] And how do we navigate that?

[01:14:22] And I usually say, if you're open to it, explain to these people what you're doing and why you're eating the way that you are.

[01:14:29] And most of the time, if you tell somebody, I'm working on my relationship with food so I don't feel anxious when eating, I feel like that should be enough for most people to hear.

[01:14:38] So that can be a complicated one depending on the relationship.

[01:14:42] I actually just did – it should be dropping this week.

[01:14:45] It actually might have just came out.

[01:14:47] I just did a whole thing on the psychology of food.

[01:14:51] With actually a doctor of chiropractic, he works in a clinic where they do up to 40-day water fasts.

[01:15:00] Typically, it's like up to five days.

[01:15:02] And it's an inpatient facility.

[01:15:04] But we talked a lot about the psychology of food and the things people deal with and how to deal with social events and being in a place where you're trying to eat and live a healthier lifestyle and not letting people project their own issues on you.

[01:15:17] So that's a whole – that's part of a whole conversation we already had.

[01:15:21] So if you guys are interested in dealing with that, go check out the other episode we have on the psychology of food with Sadiq Ali Shirazi on here.

[01:15:31] Yeah, it'll probably be out right before this one comes out.

[01:15:35] So yes, so challenging the food police.

[01:15:38] And then anything else to say there?

[01:15:43] One last thing I'll add and then I'll be really quick.

[01:15:45] Like I'd say anybody that is saying something or commenting on your food, kind of what you just said, it is a projection of their own feelings with food.

[01:15:54] And it's not really a judgment of like what they really think you should do.

[01:15:57] It's – that might make them uncomfortable if they were to have that food or they feel like they shouldn't have it.

[01:16:02] So it's usually a projection onto you.

[01:16:03] It's not really you doing something wrong in that moment.

[01:16:06] Or in the reverse too where people think that person is eating healthy.

[01:16:13] And like they're having the grilled chicken.

[01:16:16] I'm having the fried chicken.

[01:16:18] I feel bad about myself.

[01:16:20] And instead of me sitting with that and correcting it, I'm going to throw it on you so that I don't have to be the outlier here.

[01:16:28] And so I don't let you get ahead of me in life per se.

[01:16:31] So they're projecting their own feelings onto you that they know they shouldn't have that.

[01:16:36] But they don't want you to make the better choice than them because they're not as strong as you're being right now.

[01:16:42] So something to also think about.

[01:16:45] And that's a lot of what we talked about.

[01:16:46] That's the way we talked about it in the other podcast episode there.

[01:16:51] So then the next one is discover the satisfaction factor.

[01:16:57] So yeah, can you sit and enjoy your food and enjoy the experience of eating, which is probably the toughest part for most people.

[01:17:08] And just, yeah, eating in a paste manner versus just swallowing it whole.

[01:17:15] Yes.

[01:17:15] Yes.

[01:17:16] Be present with the meal.

[01:17:17] Enjoy it.

[01:17:18] If you're going to have a bowl of ice cream, let's sit and enjoy it.

[01:17:21] Let's have a good time with it.

[01:17:23] Have a good time with your dinner.

[01:17:24] Have a good time with your lunch when you can.

[01:17:26] A good breakfast.

[01:17:27] And don't feel guilty about enjoying food.

[01:17:30] So this is kind of where some of that eating disorder relationship that can step into intuitive eating.

[01:17:36] Like there are some people that feel really guilty for enjoying food.

[01:17:39] There are people that feel guilty for smelling food and enjoying the way that it smells when they've had an eating disorder.

[01:17:45] So allowing yourself to truly enjoy that experience and know that that's okay.

[01:17:50] And that's really important as humans to be enjoying what you're eating.

[01:17:54] Should this be almost like a meditative practice for people of like sitting, being present, taking in the smell, taking in the texture, kind of just slowing down and feeling things versus just like getting through it because they need to get through it to get on to the next thing in their day?

[01:18:15] If they can, yes.

[01:18:17] That would be the most ideal eating experience for every person.

[01:18:21] I know it's not always realistic as we've discussed here today.

[01:18:24] Like Brett and I will still lean on our quick protein shakes or whatever we need to do to get the food in.

[01:18:30] But when you can, really try to savor every bite.

[01:18:33] Really think about how you're feeling during that meal.

[01:18:35] And oftentimes when I'm working with somebody through intuitive eating, I'm asking them a lot of questions.

[01:18:40] Like how did you feel during that meal?

[01:18:42] What kind of feelings were coming up for you?

[01:18:44] And again, when somebody is embarking on this journey, there could be a lot of disordered eating history past.

[01:18:49] So a lot of emotions can come up for people when eating certain foods.

[01:18:53] So being present with the meal is really important.

[01:18:56] So yeah, it is meditative in ways.

[01:19:00] And that brings us into the feel your fullness.

[01:19:02] So part of that is probably sitting in, like I said earlier, of like I had to wait 20 minutes to really figure out that I wasn't actually hungry like I thought I was.

[01:19:14] That was my appetite still kind of telling me to go eat more food.

[01:19:19] Or that was my emotions telling me to reward myself more.

[01:19:23] When really after I let it settle for a few minutes, that was a fleeting feeling.

[01:19:31] So, but again, is there anything else now that we've talked about all these other things of are there signals we should look for?

[01:19:38] And then I actually listened to another podcast.

[01:19:40] There's something about people that do meditate, have an easier time being aware of these hunger signals.

[01:19:49] Can you speak on that in a sense at all of like, or should people start picking up the practice of meditating in the sense of how it's going to improve their relationship with food?

[01:20:00] Yes.

[01:20:01] So meditation is something that we utilize a ton in the eating disorder space.

[01:20:05] I will assign a lot of my clients some form of meditation because when you can meditate, it's not just about like sitting there like, hmm, this is great.

[01:20:14] I'm breathing and it's awesome and I'm relaxed.

[01:20:16] It allows you to be still and to be able to acknowledge thoughts that are happening and view them in a way.

[01:20:25] So when it comes to your hunger and being able to really listen to it and view it, you're able to be in better tune with that.

[01:20:33] Because when you're practicing meditation on a daily basis, you're able to be still for longer.

[01:20:40] So you're able to like sit there with the meal, be more present, put the phone to the side, really listen to what your body's communicating with you.

[01:20:47] And it really gives you a different level of self-awareness within yourself.

[01:20:53] That might sound like really like woo woo.

[01:20:55] But it is very true.

[01:20:58] Meditation is very powerful.

[01:20:59] I really leaned into that heavily during grad school and I swear it changed my life in so many ways.

[01:21:06] And I would only do five to 10 minutes guided meditation and it allowed my anxiety to really drop.

[01:21:10] So I do think with intuitive eating, it's a very therapeutic practice.

[01:21:15] So meditation, journaling, things of that nature definitely fit here in coinciding with it.

[01:21:22] Mm-hmm.

[01:21:23] And then number seven is I think the big one.

[01:21:28] Cope with your emotions with kindness.

[01:21:31] So this is a big one of I'm the stress eater.

[01:21:36] I'm going to eat when I'm stressed.

[01:21:37] And for a lot of people, it's an excuse of, well, are you anxious?

[01:21:43] Are you lonely?

[01:21:44] Are you hungry?

[01:21:45] Are you tired?

[01:21:46] Are you just bored?

[01:21:47] What is it that's making you do this and realizing food isn't going to fix these things for one, I think.

[01:21:53] But is there another component to that as well?

[01:21:57] So I think another piece to that is giving yourself grace if you do experience emotional eating because it is a coping mechanism.

[01:22:05] And oftentimes it's learned from a really young age or during some sort of really stressful event in somebody's life.

[01:22:12] I know for a lot of the people that I work with, oftentimes as a child, they might have had parents that were getting divorced or whatever it may be.

[01:22:19] And so they were leaning into food to cope.

[01:22:21] Or if they were in college and they were enduring a ton of high stress, they were coping with food.

[01:22:27] And so these behaviors with food are deeply rooted commonly.

[01:22:31] And so if you emotionally eat, should you beat yourself up about it?

[01:22:34] No, absolutely not.

[01:22:35] There isn't anything to feel guilty about.

[01:22:37] But what we want to try to do is identify alternative coping mechanisms and strategies to lean into that will actually make you feel better.

[01:22:47] Because commonly, the food doesn't really make you feel better.

[01:22:51] Oftentimes, you feel better in that one moment of having that bite of food.

[01:22:54] And then there's this guilt that begins to spiral for people because they usually overconsume food when emotionally eating.

[01:23:02] And they don't feel great about their experience with that food.

[01:23:05] So then that adds to stress.

[01:23:08] That adds to the poor feelings that you're observing and feeling already.

[01:23:11] So it's not that emotional eating can't happen.

[01:23:14] I think there's actually a normal amount of emotional eating that we do as humans.

[01:23:17] A good example, you're at a birthday party.

[01:23:19] They're having cake.

[01:23:21] You might be celebrating, having a good time.

[01:23:23] Maybe you're not super hungry for that cake, but you have that slice of cake.

[01:23:26] That's a form of emotional eating.

[01:23:28] You're celebrating.

[01:23:29] Emotions are happy.

[01:23:30] That's great.

[01:23:30] There's also a form of emotional eating that we commonly associate with stress or sadness.

[01:23:36] You think of like the girl gets broken up with in the movie.

[01:23:38] She's sitting there with the ice cream emotionally eating.

[01:23:41] And I think there's a normal amount of emotional eating that people will do.

[01:23:45] But we want to try to avoid it as our primary coping mechanism.

[01:23:50] We want to identify other things to really help us work through that stress.

[01:23:55] Are there certain coping mechanisms or alternative coping mechanisms you see tend to work best for people that are typical stress eaters or emotional eaters?

[01:24:07] So I am a big fan of brainstorming with the actual person.

[01:24:11] So it looks a little different depending on the person, but some ideas.

[01:24:15] Adult coloring books are amazing.

[01:24:19] Distractions in general are amazing.

[01:24:21] So however you want to distract yourself, that might be your favorite movie, a podcast, a show.

[01:24:26] Those can be really great.

[01:24:28] Additionally, some form of journaling.

[01:24:31] I have a lot of clients that will journal when they're feeling that urge to emotionally eat.

[01:24:35] And then they'll send me what they've journaled and we reflect together.

[01:24:38] So that's kind of journaling in added support, like open reflection.

[01:24:42] Another thing is leaning on people in your life for support.

[01:24:45] So say you get that urge to emotionally eat.

[01:24:48] Why don't you call your best friend and tell them what you're feeling instead of reaching for the ice cream in the freezer?

[01:24:55] That's another really healthy coping mechanism.

[01:24:57] Another one for distractions that I've seen for people is if possible, they can just go take a shower.

[01:25:04] And if they go take a shower, it removes them from the kitchen.

[01:25:07] And they're usually feeling more relaxed when they're taking a shower.

[01:25:11] So that kind of calms the central nervous system.

[01:25:13] So now whatever they're feeling stressed or anxious about they were trying to eat and cope with the food is now gone after that shower.

[01:25:20] So believe it or not, showering is a great distraction.

[01:25:23] Diversion tactic.

[01:25:25] Remove yourself from the environment of which you're experiencing the emotional eating.

[01:25:29] Some people, that's the kitchen.

[01:25:30] Some people, that's the living room.

[01:25:31] Remove yourself from that environment.

[01:25:33] Go for a walk if you can, if it's applicable at that time.

[01:25:37] Those would be a couple just right off the top.

[01:25:39] Good stuff.

[01:25:42] We got three more here.

[01:25:44] Respect your body.

[01:25:46] Yes.

[01:25:47] So I'm a big proponent of you eating when you're hungry.

[01:25:51] And it will happen sometimes that you eat past hunger.

[01:25:55] But we really want to try to respect that hunger and not eat past that fullness cue.

[01:26:00] But we also don't want to restrict that hunger cue either.

[01:26:03] So kind of meeting your body where you're at.

[01:26:06] And this also goes along with respecting your digestion.

[01:26:09] Because a lot of the time when you over consume food, you also bog down that digestion.

[01:26:15] So respecting your body, meaning respect those hunger cues, respect your digestion, give your body what it's asking for in that moment.

[01:26:23] Sometimes that's more food.

[01:26:25] Sometimes that's stop eating right now because we're going to get too full and then not feel good.

[01:26:29] That's what that means in my eyes.

[01:26:32] And other caveats to this with a lot of people that have struggled with overeating and being overweight for a majority of their life or just people in general.

[01:26:43] So there still has to be some type of structure of limitation in some form.

[01:26:49] Just like there's a daily upper limit of some sort, I presume.

[01:26:54] Yes.

[01:26:55] Yeah.

[01:26:56] That will look a little different for everybody based on their own hunger.

[01:27:00] But the goal with intuitive eating is to meet your body where it needs to be.

[01:27:07] So finding a balance.

[01:27:09] That's a big piece of intuitive eating is finding a balance with everything.

[01:27:13] Finding a balance of honoring your hunger.

[01:27:15] Finding a balance of incorporating fun foods in nutrient-dense foods.

[01:27:18] Finding a balance of when you need to be eating to stay on top of those hunger cues.

[01:27:22] We don't want to do extremes with intuitive eating.

[01:27:25] It's more of finding a balance with everything.

[01:27:27] Mm-hmm.

[01:27:28] And this still goes back to the rule of threes of we should have protein, we should have carbs, we should have fat at every meal.

[01:27:35] And is it like a 33% each on the plate too?

[01:27:41] Great question.

[01:27:42] So I personally will use some form of portion control guideline.

[01:27:47] Every dietitian might practice a little different, but I think this helps because it can feel overwhelming.

[01:27:52] It's like rule of three, have this.

[01:27:53] How much?

[01:27:53] How much do I have?

[01:27:54] So I like to have anywhere between one-fourth of the plate to one-half of the plate starchy carbohydrates based on your appetite, based on your energy expenditure.

[01:28:03] Usually I recommend half the plate when it's a pre or post-training meal just because you need a little bit more fuel there.

[01:28:09] About a fourth of the plate is going to be protein.

[01:28:12] For some people, men especially, higher protein intake.

[01:28:15] It could be up to half the plate you're having more protein.

[01:28:18] So there's wiggle room with things.

[01:28:19] And then about a fourth of the plate coming from your vegetables.

[01:28:23] And if you want up to half of the plate being veggies, that's also fine.

[01:28:26] So that's where, again, it's like, what do you want?

[01:28:29] What's your taste preference?

[01:28:30] How hungry are you in that moment?

[01:28:32] And learning how to lean into the rule of threes, portion control guidelines, while also thinking about what is my body asking of me right now?

[01:28:40] And that's a hard place to get to.

[01:28:42] And it probably sounds really overwhelming for people that have never done that.

[01:28:45] But once you get there, you can figure it out.

[01:28:48] Yeah.

[01:28:49] So I think I might be a good example of this.

[01:28:53] So I used to do macros and everything.

[01:28:55] And even now and again, I'll kind of check in with myself just to make sure, you know, one thing for me is the peanut butter.

[01:29:03] It's like, it's the sneaky, you know, it's like, I'll measure it.

[01:29:07] I'm like, oh shit, that's two tablespoons of peanut.

[01:29:11] Like, that's it.

[01:29:12] And you're like, okay, I guess that's going to be good enough for now.

[01:29:15] But then I go away from that.

[01:29:16] And then, you know, months later, it's like, let's check in for a reality check, Brett.

[01:29:21] But, you know, two slowly became four and you thought you were eating two and you're really eating four.

[01:29:28] So I'll give myself that check in sometimes.

[01:29:32] But for me, I think I might have some sense of intuitive eating because now, like, I don't, I haven't tracked my macros since I actually started losing weight.

[01:29:41] Like, I worked with a dietician.

[01:29:43] I was like, let's have these meals with, you know, protein, carbs, fat, you know, do three times a day.

[01:29:49] Here are your snacks.

[01:29:50] And that's it.

[01:29:51] And then, like, on the weekend, I was like, okay, I can go out and, like, now I'm running.

[01:29:56] So, like, I'm reconfiguring this because I never ran more than three minutes.

[01:30:01] Now I'm doing 10 miles at a pace.

[01:30:05] And so, like, that's different for me.

[01:30:08] But it's like I still am eating relatively the same.

[01:30:10] But those days I have those longer runs, it's like, okay, yes, I know I need more food.

[01:30:15] Do I need more protein?

[01:30:16] Do I need more carbs?

[01:30:16] And then it's like I kind of feel it out and it's like, okay, I'll have a little more that day.

[01:30:21] And then, like, based on how I feel the next day in training, it's like, okay, I'm still feeling a little under the weather here.

[01:30:26] Let's just add a little bit more and another snack or so in here.

[01:30:30] Mm-hmm.

[01:30:31] Yes.

[01:30:32] I fall in the same category.

[01:30:33] I've been eating intuitively and I've been under some stress.

[01:30:37] I had a sick puppy for about a month.

[01:30:38] And so my appetite was low.

[01:30:40] And I was noticing my own training performance wasn't super great.

[01:30:43] And I did a little audit.

[01:30:44] And I'm like, dude, you're not eating enough.

[01:30:46] Let's bump those carbs up.

[01:30:47] As soon as I did that, feeling so great with my training, feeling strong, hitting PRs again.

[01:30:51] So that's where having the knowledge of tracking macros and macros in general can be somewhat helpful because it's like, oh, wow.

[01:30:58] It's a bumper.

[01:31:00] Yeah, it is.

[01:31:01] It can be.

[01:31:02] And when used appropriately, I think it can be actually a really healthy tool but can also be taken the other way too depending on the person.

[01:31:10] Yeah, so I guess I'm asking too.

[01:31:12] It's like it can be intuitive eating if you set yourself with like, okay, based on my training, my age, my body weight, all that, I want to be in the ballpark of this area here.

[01:31:21] And if I eat this consistently plus minus each day, I'll probably be good.

[01:31:26] We don't have to be down to the within five grams of protein every day or I'm a bad person because of it.

[01:31:34] Absolutely.

[01:31:35] Because again, and it's kind of asinine that way anyways of like you're going to burn more calories on your leg day versus your back day or your arm day or the stress you had, the sleep you had, your hormones that day, that week, whatever, the humidity in the air, how much cardio you got in.

[01:31:57] Not every day you're burning the same amount of calories.

[01:32:00] You're not taking the same amount of steps, right?

[01:32:03] So that's asinine to think we need to eat exactly the same every day and that's going to be the difference maker for us.

[01:32:12] Because you also actually, you mentioned before, you will practice intuitive eating with bodybuilders in prep for competition, correct?

[01:32:21] Yeah.

[01:32:22] So this is something actually Justin has really started doing with his athletes.

[01:32:28] He has started bringing in intuitive eating days.

[01:32:31] I think he had somebody that was two weeks out.

[01:32:33] He gave him two intuitive eating days and he did great with it.

[01:32:35] And I think it was from more of a mental perspective.

[01:32:38] He really was able to relax.

[01:32:40] But I do utilize that, especially in my off-season bodybuilders.

[01:32:44] I mean, a lot of them are eating full on intuitive eating because they also have that knowledge of tracking.

[01:32:50] So they kind of know how much their body needs.

[01:32:52] We're checking in on their performance, their recovery, seeing their progress in terms of their growth.

[01:32:56] So intuitive eating definitely fits in bodybuilding.

[01:33:00] And that was another thing I was hoping to bring to the space is like, here's some way of eating that can help your relationship with food.

[01:33:07] And it's been pretty cool to see the response with it.

[01:33:11] More positive than anything for sure.

[01:33:14] Two more.

[01:33:16] Number nine, movement.

[01:33:17] Feel the difference.

[01:33:19] Yes.

[01:33:20] Yes.

[01:33:21] So I've recently been very cautious about how I'm talking about exercise as of lately.

[01:33:26] I'm trying to refer to it as movement as much as I can because you can move your body in so many ways.

[01:33:32] And what I really want people to find is a way that they enjoy to move their body.

[01:33:36] So that might be strength training, traditional, get in the gym, do some hypertrophy work.

[01:33:40] That might be powerlifting.

[01:33:42] That might be Olympic weightlifting.

[01:33:44] That might be Pilates.

[01:33:45] That might be HIIT style workouts at F45 or Orange Theory Fitness, walking, hiking, swimming, so many things, dancing.

[01:33:54] I mean, it's endless.

[01:33:55] There are so many ways to move your body.

[01:33:58] Find a way that you enjoy and stick with it and honor your body in that way.

[01:34:04] And intuitive movement is something I'm really experimenting too with myself and my clients.

[01:34:10] You know, there might be some weeks where you're drawn to doing more cardio.

[01:34:13] There might be some weeks where you're drawn to more strength training.

[01:34:16] And I think that's okay to lean into as long as you're not looking to, you know, be an Olympian level bodybuilder.

[01:34:23] I mean, that's a very different story.

[01:34:24] You've got to be very structured.

[01:34:25] But intuitive movement is an area that I think a lot of people should explore once they figure out what they enjoy.

[01:34:34] Yeah.

[01:34:34] Yeah.

[01:34:35] Yeah.

[01:34:35] Yeah.

[01:34:36] Do whatever you're going to show up repeatedly to do.

[01:34:39] That's the best form of movement you could do.

[01:34:44] Even if it's not covering all bases all the time, something is better than nothing.

[01:34:50] If you're going to show up to do it because you enjoy it, that's much better than some highly articulated plan that someone said is the best workout ever.

[01:34:56] If you are not motivated to do it.

[01:35:00] And the last one, honor your health with gentle nutrition.

[01:35:06] So this kind of goes back to that rule of three discussion that I mentioned.

[01:35:11] That's a form of gentle nutrition.

[01:35:14] We have structure, but it's not rigid.

[01:35:16] It gives you direction, but you can be flexible, you know?

[01:35:21] So I think gentle nutrition is a really great thing for most people to lean into.

[01:35:26] So if we're talking about the person that's never had any structure, they maybe have some health and weight loss goals.

[01:35:32] Bringing in something like a structured rule of three is a great starting point in terms of changing lifestyle.

[01:35:40] All right.

[01:35:42] I think that's everything.

[01:35:44] Do you have anything else you wanted to add, Kelly?

[01:35:46] There was a lot.

[01:35:47] I know.

[01:35:48] I think we covered all my favorite topics today.

[01:35:51] So I don't really have anything else to add.

[01:35:54] It's been great.

[01:35:54] Thank you.

[01:35:55] I definitely want to have you back on because there's still more I want to learn.

[01:35:57] So I still want to go through Ozempic at some point, like down rabbit holes there.

[01:36:04] I want to go through macros with you for people that want to do macros.

[01:36:10] Yeah.

[01:36:11] Um, I think the whole thing too on, yeah, the food psychology, emotional eating, like there's a whole podcast we could do on that.

[01:36:19] That could be very fun.

[01:36:20] What are the other trending?

[01:36:21] Oh, gut health is another huge one.

[01:36:24] Tons of gut health, mental health stuff.

[01:36:26] Yeah.

[01:36:26] Be cool.

[01:36:27] Um, we have plenty.

[01:36:29] We're going to conquer on this podcast together, Kelly.

[01:36:32] Let's do it.

[01:36:33] And I want to have you on mine.

[01:36:34] So I relaunched mine a couple of weeks ago.

[01:36:36] I saw that.

[01:36:37] I'd love to come on yours.

[01:36:38] I would love for you to come on.

[01:36:40] Teach us all about your physical therapy.

[01:36:42] I want to hear more about you, get to know you more.

[01:36:44] So me and Kate would love to have you on.

[01:36:45] We'll have to get your schedule.

[01:36:47] Yeah.

[01:36:47] And get you on.

[01:36:48] Absolutely.

[01:36:48] Yeah.

[01:36:48] Just email Hannah.

[01:36:50] She'll hook it all up.

[01:36:51] Yeah, I will.

[01:36:52] I'll contact Hannah.

[01:36:53] We'll get it set up.

[01:36:54] That'll be great.

[01:36:54] Thank you.

[01:36:55] Uh, yeah.

[01:36:55] So, um, again, if you like what you heard here and you're a member of architect fitness

[01:37:01] or you're not, you can use Kelly and, uh, Kelly's email is Kelly at together more fit.com.

[01:37:12] Perfect.

[01:37:12] K E L L Y.

[01:37:14] If you, I, you should all be able to spell together fit together more fit.

[01:37:18] Um, and, uh, what is your Instagram Kelly?

[01:37:22] Because honestly, Kelly, I came across Kelly, uh, years ago and then just recently found

[01:37:28] her again, as we were looking for a new, uh, a dietitian to work with and bring in house.

[01:37:32] And I saw everything she posts is like, damn, this is the girl we want.

[01:37:35] I was like, she posts so much good, good content on her social media.

[01:37:39] That's just what people are actually dealing with.

[01:37:42] And it's, and you're a real person about it too.

[01:37:45] So, um, it's very genuine and helpful.

[01:37:48] So, uh, thank you.

[01:37:49] What is your actual Instagram?

[01:37:50] Cause I'm trying to look now.

[01:37:52] I can't find it.

[01:37:52] Yeah.

[01:37:53] It's Kelly.

[01:37:54] It's so it's my name at Kelly.

[01:37:56] I go underscore R D N.

[01:38:00] And you can find me there.

[01:38:01] You'll see me and my puppy in my profile picture.

[01:38:04] Yeah.

[01:38:05] And, um, thank you so much for coming on here, Kelly.

[01:38:08] So we'll definitely, uh, get you back on here at some point and you can find me on Kelly's

[01:38:13] podcast at some point.

[01:38:14] And again, thank you for coming on.

[01:38:16] And I don't know what our next podcast episode is going to be, but, um, stay tuned for that

[01:38:22] one, everyone.

[01:38:23] So once again, thank you, Kelly and have a great day.

[01:38:27] Thank you so much.

[01:38:28] This has been lovely.

[01:38:30] Thanks for coming on.

[01:38:32] Appreciate you.