Building your Network to Serve Patients with Dr. Michael Murphy

[00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to The Aaron LeBauer Show. I'm your host, Aaron LeBauer. And today my special

[00:00:04] guest is Michael Murphy from Divergent Rehab. Michael is a successful cash practice owner,

[00:00:10] but also entrepreneur owning multiple different businesses. And I wanted to invite him on the

[00:00:15] show today to talk about where he's at, or where he's been, where he's at, where he's going,

[00:00:19] and some of the lessons along the way. So, Michael, thank you for joining us on the show today. It's

[00:00:24] a pleasure to have you. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to catch up again.

[00:00:28] Yeah, man. I know it's been like about a year since we last chatted. Before we catch up on

[00:00:35] what you've done over the last year, I just want to start with a little bit of

[00:00:39] questions on how you even got into this. So number one question is, how'd you decide to become a

[00:00:45] physical therapist? And was there a story around that? Or was it just happenstance?

[00:00:53] Yeah, I would say it's kind of an interesting background. So I was a competitive

[00:00:57] athlete growing up. I coached soccer competitively. I played competitively.

[00:01:01] So I really love the competitive atmosphere. But I will tell you, I actually never went to

[00:01:05] physical therapy as an athlete ever, even though I definitely had moments I should have.

[00:01:11] I actually originally went to school, A, to do two things, play collegiate soccer,

[00:01:15] but also focus on academics. And I had a huge passion for forensics. Went to school that

[00:01:21] offered both opportunities. Loved the forensic world, but found that where my passion was in

[00:01:25] the forensic world required a little bit more of a 24-7 style adaptive schedule. And I knew I wanted

[00:01:31] life outside of work and wanted to find a way to balance life, work, and just goals that I have.

[00:01:37] So I started to navigate different avenues. My dad's side of the family are very business-oriented

[00:01:42] individuals. And I kind of looked in that route. I got bored by the idea of just sitting and looking

[00:01:49] at numbers all day long. Numbers were something I was kind of naturally good at, but it didn't

[00:01:55] feel like the impact I wanted to make. And I've always enjoyed being able to be a part of

[00:01:59] people's journeys. Kind of found my way shadowing into PT a little bit and kind of just stepped

[00:02:06] into that journey. Fortunately, in the forensic world, some of the background prereqs for PT

[00:02:11] school is also in the same science background. So by the time I made my decision junior year

[00:02:15] of undergrad, I had two years to finish all the other prereqs. I don't recommend making that

[00:02:20] transition that fast. But no, I ended up deciding that's the route I wanted to go. I took a year off

[00:02:27] between undergrad and grad school to kind of A, save up money. B, I also wanted to coach

[00:02:31] competitively. So work on those things. And then found my way in PT school in Des Moines, Iowa.

[00:02:39] And that's kind of my odd pathway to getting to the PT world. How I got there,

[00:02:46] maybe a little bit messier, but I love what I do. That's awesome. Was there any time when you got

[00:02:50] into PT in the first year or so where you doubted your decision? You're like, oh no, I should have

[00:02:55] done it. I would tell you it was a year into PT school, going through the educational,

[00:03:03] understanding clinical application stuff is awesome. And then getting into the first internship

[00:03:09] in a very big brand name style of clinic where I walked in and my CI gave me my schedule,

[00:03:15] a laptop and said, I'll see you at the end of the day. Like day one. All right, well,

[00:03:19] here's my schedule of 15 people. And I rarely saw that. Which, I kind of became a financial asset

[00:03:27] to the clinic instead of an opportunity to learn how to grow. So I kind of since stepping into the

[00:03:32] clinic had to figure out what's a better way to do this. So the soccer career didn't work out,

[00:03:40] or did you know it wasn't going to be a thing? Yeah, no. So the competitively playing, I wanted

[00:03:47] to give myself the opportunity to compete at a high level. I gave myself that opportunity,

[00:03:53] decided kind of last second, I want to go more the academic route. I want to focus on that side

[00:03:58] of the world. I've been through enough health things that I want to take care of my body. So

[00:04:02] it works long term. And then in the coaching realm, I coached competitively for 12 years until

[00:04:08] I moved out where I'm at now in Indiana. And the only reason that I've stopped coaching is I've got

[00:04:12] three kids and they're kind of my newer priority. Right. So I miss my athletes. Yeah. Yeah. Did you

[00:04:18] go, did you go, did you play like just did you play division one, two, three? Like, did you choose

[00:04:25] between like a better school for, you know, soccer versus a better school for academics? Was that

[00:04:31] kind of part of this decision? Yeah, it was part of the decision. One was all the D1 schools I was

[00:04:36] talking to kind of both East and West Coast were telling me I had to be a business major, or I

[00:04:41] wasn't able to be a part of the team. And I just said, Well, I'm not here for four years to just

[00:04:45] play soccer. Like I've got a life planned after. So I wanted to kind of find how do I how do I have

[00:04:50] a good balance in that and ended up playing in a conference up in Minnesota, that's a division

[00:04:55] three conference. That's primarily a lot of D1 transfers or athletes that really kind of want

[00:05:00] to focus more in the academic world. And yeah, shout out to them that conference won the national

[00:05:05] tournament last year and has competed very well the last few years. So it's been fun to watch.

[00:05:08] Yeah, that's awesome. UNCG here in Greensboro was division three, and then they, the soccer men's

[00:05:13] soccer team kept winning and then their division one because of the men's soccer team primarily.

[00:05:18] And yeah, because then it's, you know, people weren't coming there for soccer, they were coming

[00:05:23] there for like other things. But, you know, I think one of the patterns I've noticed lately,

[00:05:28] is that a lot of successful people in business, especially physical therapists are coming through

[00:05:33] or have been like, high level athletes were focused on it really hard because you know,

[00:05:38] to get to where you got, you had to train a lot. And you had to run in the rain, train the rain.

[00:05:43] You know, have you like, since that you've learned some lessons in business from your like,

[00:05:49] athletic career? Oh, yeah. You know, when I when I coached my competitive athletes,

[00:05:54] and when I was part of the recruiting process for all them, I always reminded them,

[00:05:58] number one goal of this experience is to prepare you to be successful for the challenges in life

[00:06:03] ahead, to be able to know how to adapt and respond to conflict or respond to adversity. Because I,

[00:06:10] you know, I tell people all the time, I wouldn't be in the opportunities that I have without the

[00:06:14] background that I was put through, you know, and being in a competitive sport that kind of

[00:06:18] taught me how to earn my place and expect that hard work is going to have to be a part of the

[00:06:23] equation. Nothing's just going to be handed to you. You know, I would say, you know, I,

[00:06:27] I have a lot of weird experiences growing up a my dad's business things that pop up every now and

[00:06:32] then the soccer experiences where I run into daily conflict. I'm like, well, this kind of

[00:06:37] feels familiar. Right? So when you when you say you notice that kind of correlation between that

[00:06:43] individual that's been through kind of that competitive atmosphere, I can totally see that.

[00:06:47] Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't done like a randomized controlled trial, but I've just like,

[00:06:52] I've noticed it, you know, with members in our, in our mastermind group, like people are like,

[00:06:56] a lot of people are very competitive or, you know, been, you know, high level in some way.

[00:07:00] I mean, just getting to collegiate athletics is what the top 1% of like, people in most sports,

[00:07:05] right? I mean, top five, I don't know what it is. I mean, I was struggling to gas for air,

[00:07:11] and I wasn't even racing bikes against the guys like they were actually winning and they couldn't

[00:07:17] do it in the tour. I mean, it's and still it just it's like, but it to me, it wasn't when I look

[00:07:23] back, it wasn't about at the time was about how good can I how good can I be? But looking back,

[00:07:27] it was more about you're right. How do you prepare yourself and learn like what it takes to, you know,

[00:07:32] do hard things when you don't want to do them? Right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That was

[00:07:37] like the biggest one is like, I think someone said to you know, I saw someone post and I'm

[00:07:42] no I'm way off topic, but I'm not. Someone posted something about like, you know, the 75 hard. Have

[00:07:46] you heard of 75? Hard? The Andy Fussell thing? It's, it's great. It's like, what do you think

[00:07:50] about doing it? And I'm like, well, I rode my bike every day in 45 degree rain, you know,

[00:07:56] like for seven years, like, I don't need to do 75 hard to learn how to do hard things. Right, right.

[00:08:02] I mean, I played soccer final, we played a state soccer final in the, you know, 30 degree rainy

[00:08:07] ice. I mean, it was nasty. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I rode the bench that day. So I mean, you know,

[00:08:12] I you know, that's when, when you transition into the coaching world or the parenting world and

[00:08:17] in that sideline effort, like you realize, those cold rainy days were so much worse for them than

[00:08:22] it was for me. The one that was living in the moment of it. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:27] So dude, awesome. What's the like next step? So you're going to PT school? Like, did you know

[00:08:35] you were going to own a business or open a clinic? Was not the plan. I mean, goals change

[00:08:44] all the time, right? Yeah. Getting into PT school thought, you know what, I'm going to create a good

[00:08:49] career out of this be able to help impact people the way I want my flexibility to do the other

[00:08:52] things I want to do outside of that. Got into that first internship kind of hit me like a wall,

[00:08:57] like, okay, I know I want to spend most of my time likely in this outpatient style of environment.

[00:09:04] But this isn't, this isn't going to work without a burnout be without trying to find a way to create

[00:09:11] the true impact that people need, which is, you know, I always tell people when they come in my

[00:09:15] doors, the goal is not to spend as much time as with me as you can. The goal is to get out of

[00:09:19] my doors and go live your life. Right? And I definitely felt like in that first internship

[00:09:25] experience and through other experiences down the road that it became much more of a cyclical process

[00:09:30] of how do we just give people same results instead of giving them their life back? Right?

[00:09:36] So yeah, long story short on that, you know, I didn't really have a plan to start up my own

[00:09:40] practice. But getting into practice getting into really the clinical routine and the clinical

[00:09:47] mindset, I just I got a burned out be bored by the fact that I really wasn't like I like to be

[00:09:54] a challenge thinker. And when you have the same things coming in all the time and repetition,

[00:09:58] it just gets dry. So, I mean, I found myself needing to either find a new way to make the

[00:10:06] impact that I wanted to make through the profession that I spent time getting a degree in,

[00:10:12] or find something else to do. And I again, I find I find that being able to give people their life

[00:10:17] back is so fulfilling. And it's fun, right? That I wanted to try to find a way to do that.

[00:10:22] So, so the way to do that was to start your own business.

[00:10:26] Yeah, way to do that was to kind of set my own rules. Right?

[00:10:30] Right. So you had mentioned like your dad and family had business owners like did they did

[00:10:36] did they start their own business from scratch while you were growing up? Did you see that

[00:10:39] witness that or? No, my my dad's a CFO who's just been a part of, again, financial organization

[00:10:45] helping restructure, refinance, re rebuild teams to be successful and then build that

[00:10:50] organization out again. So none of them have really started up their own business or been

[00:10:55] a part of that risk taking environment, but definitely have been around that business

[00:10:59] conversation. So there's been some good back and forth and just the way the background of

[00:11:05] business goes, you know? Yeah, right on. Okay, so decisions made, I got to start a business.

[00:11:13] Did you know, okay, when I do it, I got to do it like without net without insurance and go cash?

[00:11:17] Or was that also part of this? Like, was there another like time where you're like, Oh,

[00:11:22] try like, yeah, where did that come along? Yeah, you know, it, it came along a couple

[00:11:27] different ways. You know, I kind of had the back of my mind thought that there's got to be a better

[00:11:31] way than fighting an insurance company that doesn't really have the goal of your results

[00:11:37] in mind. It's the goal of saving themselves money in mind. So having to constantly battle

[00:11:43] that side of the equation is just generally exhausting to think about. So looking at the

[00:11:47] different routes of in network, out of network, and then I actually had one of my PT students

[00:11:52] who took over one of the positions that I had in the hospital. I was at before I started my

[00:11:55] own practice had also been looking at the cash world a little bit. And so we just had back and

[00:12:01] forth conversations. And it was time for hospital contract to come up and either invest more in

[00:12:06] that or get honestly my family out of small town, closer to family after COVID and kind of re

[00:12:14] jumpstart everything. So it was a let's just dive in and let's just do it. Right? Yeah.

[00:12:19] Yeah. Awesome. So okay, so let's see that was you started what in 2022 21 2022. So

[00:12:28] two years will be June 13. Wow. Awesome. Congrats, man. That's dope. So

[00:12:32] and then at some point, I think it was it that was in 20. What's yours? It's like 2022. You

[00:12:39] also enrolled in our mastermind. Did you was what did you get your business started? And like,

[00:12:43] what problems were you experiencing before? Like you reached out for help? Or I think maybe yeah,

[00:12:49] bizcon? You know, can you just paint where that where you were then and what was going on?

[00:12:54] Yeah, so I pretty much we had kind of made the decision end of contract, we were going to move

[00:12:59] we wanted to once we got to the place that we were my wife and I, we wanted to be able to kind

[00:13:03] of hit the ground running so had attended PT bizcon virtually. And, you know, talking just

[00:13:13] listening, talking, I got end up getting a phone call with Jim, Jess. But but where my goal was,

[00:13:20] is I knew we were going to be moving. I knew I was going to get there. But I didn't want to just

[00:13:23] get there and then start I wanted to be prepped in advance. So I started I think it was 2021.

[00:13:30] End of 2020 was like fall of 2021 that I had joined, and then through 2022 had had continued

[00:13:36] on. But by the time I had gotten to Indy and started up, I think I was three months into

[00:13:44] the program, which helped me kind of build the base of all the framework so I can actually spend

[00:13:48] time working on the business instead of starting the business. Right. And then once I got out,

[00:13:54] you started so I mean, just back up. So what you did was you said, Hey, I'm my move date is

[00:13:58] whatever September 1, my open date September 1, I need to get all these things built out before

[00:14:03] I move because when I move, I want to be seeing patients making money doing that.

[00:14:07] Right? Yeah, I want I wanted to I wanted to go. Right. I didn't want to I didn't want to get there

[00:14:12] and then say, Well, now it's time. I'm not good at twiddling my thumb. So I like I like to keep

[00:14:16] the ball rolling. That's awesome. Was there one or two things that you did that were most helpful

[00:14:21] in just kind of getting the ball rolling, getting the jump started before you landed in your new

[00:14:27] home? Yeah, I would say the biggest thing was networking. Right? Getting getting a lay of the

[00:14:33] land of who's going to be around me, who's going to be someone that is a part of my network or

[00:14:38] who would be a value to being in my in my network. So that way, A, I can find my clients and B, I can

[00:14:44] help them find theirs. Right? So finding a way to create more of a collaborative based community,

[00:14:49] because I'm not going to get a referral from a physician that's in network unless they've

[00:14:53] personally seen me or unless they've heard of me or found me from other experiences, which is

[00:14:58] about two years in, I've got a couple that are starting to refer my way, which is kind of a cool

[00:15:02] experience. So you started what did you say fall 21? I can't remember my summer, summer of 22.

[00:15:08] Yeah, I started I started the mastermind in 21. I think it was around fall of 21.

[00:15:16] And then I started business in June of 22. Okay. Okay, cool. Because it's and you know, all those

[00:15:22] four, the last four years are just kind of like meshed in my brain. I'm like, I can't remember

[00:15:26] where the timeline is. I'm there with you to be off on the start date. So yeah, yeah. But no,

[00:15:31] but that's awesome. That's really cool. So well, let me ask you this. If you're a soccer player,

[00:15:35] why didn't you choose a soccer niche? Because it's almost it was almost too niche, right?

[00:15:43] You know, I, I know, I really love and enjoy being around the athlete, the active motivated

[00:15:49] individual. Like when I say athlete, I tell people, everybody's an athlete, just what level

[00:15:52] of life are you competing at? Right? And are you the bench player in life? Are you trying to get

[00:15:57] out on the field more? Right? I, I've got a couple of soccer communities that I so that I knew prior

[00:16:04] to moving here that I got to know a little bit, but I'll tell you to like, the high school athlete

[00:16:09] is a little bit tougher in this area to work with not because they don't need the help. But

[00:16:14] because all these big hospital systems paid ridiculous amount of money for sponsorships

[00:16:19] to be put on jerseys. And they don't do anything for these programs, but they're just kind of there.

[00:16:24] So parents trying to get a kid into a clinic is a little bit of a slower journey right now. I have

[00:16:30] parents that send me their kids that I've seen. I trialed being inside of a soccer community,

[00:16:35] but again, the downside is most of those kids need to be hurt to need me. Right. And I'd rather,

[00:16:40] I'd rather be less, less in that niche in their space and more available to their community.

[00:16:46] So then I can make the impact that I needed to. Yeah. Awesome, dude. Fast forward, like a year

[00:16:51] into business, like where'd you went from zero, you know, zero patients, like tell us about like

[00:16:56] your first year, what were the things that worked really well with you? What like, what milestones

[00:17:01] did you hit? Like how many patients were you seeing? And, you know, like just kind of just,

[00:17:06] you know, let's kind of catch up to where that was. Like, you know, where were you like a year

[00:17:12] later or so? Yeah. So now that, now that memory's hit me, so I think it was actually spring that I

[00:17:17] started MaxMind. So it was three months or so beforehand. So started business in June. My goal

[00:17:24] by nine months was to be hitting a $20,000 a month, you know, revenue stream, having a schedule

[00:17:31] that made that work. I hit that about six months in. So I hit that in January. Three months in was

[00:17:38] when I hit my, three months in was when I hit my 10 to 12 K a month revenue stream, which was,

[00:17:46] was great. You know, I getting into a new area, trying to figure out the cash world. I wasn't

[00:17:51] quite sure where that was going to sit, but I got a little bit ahead of schedule and it's, I mean,

[00:17:55] I met people every week. I met someone new at least two to three times a week. Anyone that I've met in

[00:18:02] the past that I'm always around now, I make time to catch up with them. Right. You know, that,

[00:18:08] you know, the big thing that I kind of tell people when I'm networking with them is I'm here not to

[00:18:13] have you send me clients. I'm here to figure out my person that I'm seeing, they have a goal and I,

[00:18:18] I can't be the only one, a part of their journey. And I need to know who the right person is for

[00:18:21] that journey besides me. Right. So I really try when I go to network and try to build that,

[00:18:26] um, help people understand that it's not about me. It's about this person in front of us.

[00:18:31] We need to figure out how to solve that. Yeah. That's a powerful frame. Like the worst thing,

[00:18:35] the thing I hate about networking is you go there and people are trying to sell you their own shit.

[00:18:38] And I'm like, yeah, don't sell me your stuff. I'm here to like net networking is not being sold to.

[00:18:44] Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing worse than being talked to the whole time. Right. You know, and,

[00:18:49] and again, there's, you find out very quickly who's there to be competitive for a business gain

[00:18:54] and who's there to be there to make the impact like you are. Right. And so finding the people

[00:18:59] that are going to be valuable on the journey that you're putting yourself on is, is, is helpful.

[00:19:05] But, but yeah. Okay. Can you like, just so, you know, cause I know a lot of people are like,

[00:19:09] oh, I couldn't possibly like my, my mind, like mindset when I'm like trying to coach people and

[00:19:14] it's like, Hey, I want you to go collect a hundred no's. Right. Cause some, some people, the no's

[00:19:18] bother them. I don't know. Sometimes I look at you and other people who are like really good

[00:19:22] networking. It's like, do the no's bother you? Or is it just because you're there for something

[00:19:26] other than a yes. Yeah. So are you, are you saying like the networking no or the client now?

[00:19:33] Both. Right. So it's like, Hey, I'm afraid to go net because basically it's like,

[00:19:37] I'm going to go get turned down or they're not going to say yes. Or they're going to be,

[00:19:40] they're not going to be there versus like, you know, cause you know, but I think from my

[00:19:44] perspective, a lot of people are hesitant to go, you know, even like in a social setting,

[00:19:49] go introduce themselves to someone for the fear of rejection. But if we're collecting no's like

[00:19:55] that's easier, like to me, like the framework of, Hey, let me go collect 10 rejections. Like I'm

[00:19:59] going to get some acceptances along the way. Like that's the frame I have. I know there's

[00:20:03] different ones. Like when you're going into like a social situation, are you even thinking about

[00:20:08] that? Or is it just more natural to you and you just, you know? Yeah. You know, I would say

[00:20:13] at first, you know, I would try to find ways to introduce myself and not like force who I am,

[00:20:19] what I do on people and just kind of have a natural conversation. But I also like search for

[00:20:25] the no search for the yes. Like let it find you in the way that's natural. Because for me, I know

[00:20:30] helps me decipher. You don't value me right now, you might later, but now I have to worry about

[00:20:36] having this conversation. Right? You know, for me being able to figure out, hey, you know what,

[00:20:41] if I send an email to someone or I give them a call, and I want to just see if Hey, then I can

[00:20:46] go grab coffee with them sometimes just to learn more about what they do. And I'll hear back from

[00:20:50] them. You know what, it's not worth my time because they don't value the message that I sent. I'll

[00:20:55] find them later. You know, for example, I had a fitness community out here, one of the orange

[00:21:00] theories that I had reached out to two or three times over the course of the year, and then left

[00:21:06] it alone for six months. And then like three of their members mentioned me to them. And like,

[00:21:10] oh, that guy has sent us before. So they called me and like, hey, we'd love to connect now. Right?

[00:21:15] So like, finding finding the timing is helpful to write there's, there's a point in time when

[00:21:20] someone gets to know who you are, right in the time that they will value. So don't put the energy

[00:21:26] into someone saying, yeah, I want to meet with you like that. Great. You know what you'll find,

[00:21:31] you'll find me eventually, unfortunately for you, right? But that's I mean, end of the day,

[00:21:38] being okay with nose in the networking world is is great being okay with the nose in the

[00:21:43] patient world. Honestly, when it happens, I'm okay with it because they're not my client.

[00:21:49] Right? Because the harsh, the harsh thing about being a PT is we care almost more than our

[00:21:53] clients do about their results. Right? That's just kind of the nature of who we are. So I got

[00:21:58] someone that says, you know what, I don't know if I want to come in and pay out of pocket. I don't

[00:22:02] know if it's the right fit for me. That tells me right now that they're also not motivated to be

[00:22:07] in this kind of setting. And they're not willing to put in the work. So now I don't have to put my

[00:22:11] energy and an over amount of energy into into them that until they're at least committed and ready to

[00:22:17] go. Right? So nose, nose make it almost easier. It's the yeses. That's like, all right, now let's

[00:22:22] hop on the train and let's begin this journey that we get to really delve into. Yeah, yeah,

[00:22:26] that's what I've learned the last years is no doesn't hurt my feelings. It's just clear. Yeah,

[00:22:30] yeah, communication, but we also can't be afraid of it because or it's still hard sometimes even

[00:22:35] tell my kids like, No, you can't do that. Like my my 13 year old was like, Dad, just tell me no.

[00:22:40] I'm like, it's really hard to say no to you. Because I want to do this. But I you know, I can't.

[00:22:44] But it is it's I think it's, I think it's being okay with the rejection because we're there for

[00:22:51] not ourselves. But if we're there for our patients for the betterment of our patients, like,

[00:22:54] like you said, I think it's great. Like, I'm here to find out who else can serve this person,

[00:22:59] not who else can't even I can serve or conserve me. It's about the other person. Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:05] Awesome. Um, what? What are some of the places you go find people like to do the networking?

[00:23:12] Where do you go? Is it just gyms and, and fitness studios? Are there other areas other groups? Like,

[00:23:18] are you just asking people patients when they come through the door? Like, how are you building?

[00:23:23] Yeah, I would tell you a lot of my my original drive was get to know the fitness communities

[00:23:29] around doesn't matter if it's a personal training community across the gym, high intensity interval

[00:23:33] space, like your burn boot camps, your orange series those you're but also finding people

[00:23:38] that live in the same world that you do that can help your client, your massage therapist, your,

[00:23:43] your your myofascial release specialist, you know, your your functional health providers.

[00:23:47] For me, I got a lot of DPCs around that that are also cash based that live in the same clientele

[00:23:52] world. I always tell people to there's no meeting that's not worth having if someone's wanting to

[00:23:57] meet with you, right? At least they know one or two other people, right? And if you meet a financial

[00:24:03] advisor that wants to talk to you about what they can offer you and they realize you know what I know

[00:24:08] three other people that can use your services, right? Great. Also, I run into clients that need

[00:24:13] a financial advisor, it's nice to know I've met somebody that I can recommend them to.

[00:24:17] So I have some random meetings that I'll have every now and then. But I'm at the stage where,

[00:24:22] honestly, I've tried to meet almost everybody that I can find in the area, you know, through

[00:24:27] through just like visual search that now when I have clients come in, I mean, the first thing I

[00:24:33] talked to them about is what else are you doing outside of me? Do you have a personal trainer?

[00:24:37] What's your fitness journey? What's your health journey? They got a they got a physician that they

[00:24:41] primarily see or they've got a fitness professional wellness professional they're seeing outside of

[00:24:46] me, I always ask them, who are they? What are they doing for you? And are you okay with me throwing

[00:24:50] them on authorization form for you to sign up so I can reach out to them and talk to them about where

[00:24:53] we're at. So I'm kind of naturally networking now through patient care without even having to

[00:24:58] look anymore. Nice. Dude, that's, that's credible. What? Um, okay, so we got the networking piece,

[00:25:05] right? What else like what else? What are some of the other like things that were most helpful

[00:25:12] for you in like growing your business, whether it's the first year or between then and now,

[00:25:15] like, what are some of the things that you've done strategies, things you learned, like,

[00:25:19] you know, or maybe the other question is, if you go back, what would you do more of or less of?

[00:25:24] Yeah, I think so. After the first mastermind that we had, I was sitting at the table,

[00:25:28] I think it was Kyle, Kyle Womack. And one of the things that I mean, the thing that's nice about

[00:25:34] that group is you're around everybody else that's doing the same thing as you don't have to explain

[00:25:38] who you are, what you're doing, you can all talk about your problems and help each other solve it,

[00:25:41] right. And like my problem that I was having at that, like three, four month mark was okay,

[00:25:48] like, I'm busy. But I'm trying to figure out how do I how do I get through this revenue goal issue?

[00:25:56] And it was like me having an issue with like direct access in Indiana's 42 calendar days,

[00:26:01] I need a referral to continue care. And so I was limiting my plan of cares for my people that I

[00:26:06] knew needed longer than six weeks, essentially, to six weeks, and then I would ask them, you know,

[00:26:12] I need a referral to continue care. And it was something as simple as just like,

[00:26:17] just tell them what they need. You already know that, right? And if they don't get the referral,

[00:26:20] then it's so it's now wellness conversations, right? And there was just something along the

[00:26:25] conversation. I was like, Well, like, I've been telling these people this, but I haven't been

[00:26:28] falling through on my own word on what I think they need. So like, just stand by yourself, right

[00:26:34] and stand up for yourself and what your your knowledge base is, I think, helping get through

[00:26:39] the walls of yourself, right? I mean, that I think the biggest issue that all of us that went into PT

[00:26:46] school that want to do the cash world, or even just private world is, is like we run into our

[00:26:50] own smoke and mirrors, right? Our own like, again, we talked about imposter syndrome, right? Like

[00:26:55] you hit your own wall. And like, someone just has to like, put the fan on in front of you like, Oh,

[00:27:01] fine, got it makes sense. So I think the other big thing that was helpful was having a network

[00:27:06] of people that are in the same place that helped me get through the little holes that either I'm

[00:27:12] getting into on that they've already been at or they're having an issue and I'm helping problem

[00:27:16] solve for them when I haven't even been there yet, or I've done it myself, right? So just kind of

[00:27:21] the navigation of not being alone in that journey, I think is the other big step.

[00:27:27] Dude, that's awesome. So with your you've got a couple businesses, I'll talk about the other ones,

[00:27:32] but with your with your practice right now, where is it right now? Like it's 2024? Like,

[00:27:38] are you treating patients? You have other PTs? Like, what does it was it look like day to day?

[00:27:42] How many patients you seeing? How's it? How's it? Yeah, like, where's the business now? Since we

[00:27:46] last had a year or two ago? I mean, yeah, so the way the way I run my business is I see people as

[00:27:51] early as 6am. And I'm done at three o'clock pretty much in the afternoon. I pretty much

[00:27:55] saved my last afternoon slots as my networking time. So I usually will see four to five people

[00:28:00] a day. I've got another PT that I brought on staff as an independent contractor who's phenomenal.

[00:28:06] You know, a lot of my goal for my business was a quality of life for my patients quality of life

[00:28:10] for me and quality of life for anybody else that's involved. So she's mom first, client care

[00:28:15] provider second and so like she gets a healthy balance and creates kind of her own schedule based

[00:28:20] on attending events getting herself out there. It's kind of a win win for her. I've got another

[00:28:27] PT that I'd love to bring on that we're kind of having conversations had an OT reach out to me

[00:28:32] that wanted to come in and kind of take on the hand wrist elbow people which honestly I'd be okay

[00:28:36] with. But no right now it's me and one other provider I see pretty much between 20 and 25

[00:28:43] people a week, which again as nice because that was like two days in a standard clinic.

[00:28:50] And I spend an hour to an hour and a half with all of them. I've got an hour block with them and

[00:28:53] I got an extra half hour blocked off after so they're never rushed out the door. If they run

[00:28:57] into traffic because there's construction like crazy all the way over here, and they're 10 minutes

[00:29:01] late because they ran into traffic like there's time for that to be made and like they appreciate

[00:29:06] the fact that we understand there's life happening outside the walls. I would say goodness since

[00:29:15] January of 23 so about a year and a half now. I mean, I've stayed steady in the 20 to $30,000

[00:29:24] a month range. I haven't really pushed to go beyond that because I've invested in other

[00:29:29] businesses right now and I'll kind of work on restructuring other things later. But the goal

[00:29:35] would be for me, I want to get myself to be a client care provider four days a week of alleviate

[00:29:40] a day so I can just spend that day with my kids and wife more. Nice, that's awesome. And so

[00:29:45] all right, so along the way you've got a bike fitting business and then

[00:29:52] subleasing. So which one came first? The bike fit? Was that the secondary thing from the?

[00:29:58] Yeah, the bike fit thing came next. Man, I've cyclists around here, right? I've seen so many

[00:30:05] in the PT world and I kept telling them as they came out. I'm like, hey, there's not a whole lot

[00:30:09] of you I need to fix but you keep getting on this dang thing and you're doing a lot of repetitive

[00:30:13] issues. And you keep coming back to me with the same problem. So this isn't something I can fix

[00:30:18] here. I need to fix your bike. But I need you to go find a fitter to do it. And so there used to be

[00:30:23] three main fitters around the area. One retired one unfortunately is no longer around after

[00:30:29] getting in an accident and passed away. And then there's one that's up kind of north north side

[00:30:33] of Indy that does a lot of performance based fits through basically a machine based fit.

[00:30:39] He kind of takes care of a lot of the high end racers around here. But there's a huge need. And

[00:30:44] so like all the cyclists I kept being told just go get a become a fitter you understand anatomy,

[00:30:50] you can help me figure out why my body struggles on the bike. But can you tell me why my bike is

[00:30:54] not great for me right now or why the setup is off? Because I would just keep telling I would

[00:30:58] assume the problem is here. So I ended up I reached out to you because you had a connection

[00:31:04] for me out on the west coast. So I went and went through his course and talked with him a little

[00:31:09] bit. Honestly, the hardest part about the bike fit is just the fact that you're torquing a really

[00:31:15] expensive piece of equipment, right? It's almost more intimidating than anything, right?

[00:31:20] Well, when I grew up, they were all steel. So it didn't matter. Now they're carbon fiber. You're

[00:31:24] like you got to be very specific, you know? Yeah, well, and the first the first fit that we did

[00:31:29] was on a Cervelo the same model that won the Tour de France last year. So like, there's a 10 plus

[00:31:35] thousand dollar bike right here. And I've got a torque wrench. You might go man, here we go.

[00:31:39] Right. But no, the cycling community came to me and was like, Hey, we want we want a little less

[00:31:45] information a little bit more specificity to my body and the bike. Can you do that? So from

[00:31:50] networking, I met a gal who her son is also PT in the area who had done some bike fits before moving

[00:31:57] out to the India and area and was wanting to start up a business. And so I met with him. I'm like,

[00:32:01] hey, I don't want it to be a part of my PT practice because I don't want people to look at

[00:32:05] this as a medical service. But I want people to look at it as a proactive let's avoid PT style

[00:32:10] service because that's where I would love that my care really was. So we we both found a way

[00:32:15] to kind of set time aside and this kind of like a side business. The problem is, it's too busy,

[00:32:19] right? We can't keep up with it because we both have full time jobs outside of it. And

[00:32:24] I don't I don't want to take away from my PT practice just quite yet. So we've got another

[00:32:28] person or two that we would love to add into that business itself. But what we do is we do a

[00:32:33] functional movement screen, help you identify is there a is there a biomechanical component to you

[00:32:39] that this machine is struggling with? And then let's get the bike fit to you so you can actually

[00:32:43] work well based on what your availability is. So there that's the bike fitting thing.

[00:32:50] And then the other business man, the sublease businesses, it's a slow growing,

[00:32:56] slow growing thing more so just I need to make more time for it. But it's really I mean,

[00:33:01] the way that my business is run, I don't lease space, I sublease space. I don't need a lot. I

[00:33:06] need a room and some equipment and life's good. So my Zinesville space that I'm in in Indiana

[00:33:12] is inside of a golf and athletic performance space where the owner is phenomenal. He lives in like

[00:33:17] the TPI world with his golfers. He understands like the collaborative network that I can provide

[00:33:22] to his his members and the conversations that we can have. And so that space is great. I don't

[00:33:29] I've got I started I took like a 10 by 12 room from him originally. And then I'm like, Hey,

[00:33:34] I need more. I got another provider that took over a different space kind of cleaned it up.

[00:33:38] But I've got like a 20 by 25 room and a couple thousand square feet there. Right? So I sublease

[00:33:43] from him. And then my, my new space. So I started in central north central and Carmel. And then I'm

[00:33:50] in Zinesville Fishers, my Fisher space, I'm inside of a chiropractic office where they're

[00:33:55] an out of network cash based practice as well, who works with the same clients that I do,

[00:34:00] and lives in the same community. So we've just known each other for a while. And I've gotten

[00:34:04] to know he's got two other locations, his other staff. And I said, Hey, I need to get out a little

[00:34:09] bit further east. Do you have space for me? So I use a like 10 by 14 room in his space right now.

[00:34:15] But I spend less money for two spaces right now than I did for an original 10 by 10 room.

[00:34:20] Right? And so, like, for me, one of the passions is being able to obviously like the PT, the health

[00:34:27] wellness world, I want to help those providers grow their impact. But as a small business owner,

[00:34:32] as a whole, like getting out of the house after COVID around here, lease space is 1000 square

[00:34:37] feet minimum that 40 to $50 a square foot. I'm trying to build out like there's no way,

[00:34:42] right? I want to grow my business. I've, I better be ready to invest a lot right away

[00:34:47] versus invest in growing my business. And it's just like, I don't want I don't want a small

[00:34:51] business owner to die when they're trying to make an impact. So the goal of the sublease business is

[00:34:56] to connect the person that has space to the person that's looking for space in a collaborative way.

[00:35:02] So like, let's say I've got like the chiropractor, he's like, you know what, I want to bring an

[00:35:06] acupuncturist in here, he can put into that website, what kind of professional he wants in

[00:35:11] this space. So that way, when someone registers as a member, it filters out any other people that

[00:35:15] wouldn't apply, and they only see space that applies to them. Yeah. So that way, people can

[00:35:20] create empty and more of a collaborative culture or like my attorney is a great example. He's got

[00:35:25] a quarter of his office that sits empty. And for him having a financial advisor, another attorney

[00:35:31] at CP like anybody can fill that space, obviously, hopefully not a PT will be a little loud in there,

[00:35:37] right? And build a collaborative network because not only does it help cover up his overhead,

[00:35:41] it helps the small business owners overhead, and it creates an opportunity for client referral back

[00:35:46] and forth. Right, right. So it's more than less, it's less of a real estate listing and more of

[00:35:50] like a place where you can come and say, Hey, I've got a room for rent, or I'm looking for a room to

[00:35:53] rent. Yeah, and what kind of office space it is how big and yeah, it doesn't work for that. Like

[00:36:00] Craigslist is bad. I mean, you know, like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how many people trust

[00:36:05] Craigslist anymore these days. And then the only other space to list things is on lease sites. So

[00:36:10] outside of that, you got to go to Facebook. And if you don't want to spend the money on the ads,

[00:36:13] now it's just via word of mouth. And again, if you're trying to build out and you need to kind

[00:36:17] of fill quicker, just an easy convenient space. And what I would love for it to do is become a

[00:36:22] resource for small businesses to come to as well. And you know, I need I live in this region,

[00:36:28] I need a business coach here. Or you know what, I need to live in this region, I need a financial

[00:36:31] advisor, I need an attorney, like kind of help people find what they need instead of start from

[00:36:37] scratch. Right? And you're looking to take this like nationwide or just start locally in

[00:36:41] Indianapolis? Yeah. So coast to coast kind of help whoever we can. Yeah, that's awesome. What's

[00:36:47] the are you do you have a is this just a thing that you built yourself? Did someone write the

[00:36:51] software? Did you like did some are you partner with anyone on this? I mean, how's that? So we

[00:36:57] hired out a group to build out the website for us because a little bit more custom. As much as I've

[00:37:02] messed with two websites. I know this one's a little bit trickier than I can handle. So yeah,

[00:37:06] we hired out someone to help build out that website for us. And it's mostly done now. It's

[00:37:11] just got more cleaning up content edition things to add to it. So it's very simplistic right now,

[00:37:16] but it gets the job done. Yeah. So what's the business model? Is it cost to list? Is it cost to

[00:37:21] you know, look at how's that? What's the Yeah, it's basically it's a monthly membership,

[00:37:25] right? It's a here's a membership cost to list the space, here's a membership cost to see spaces

[00:37:29] available. Ideally, you can find your space quickly, but at minimum at the end of day two,

[00:37:34] right? The goal is not to nickel and dime the small business owner, the goal is to create a

[00:37:39] space for you to have an affordable option to find something without spending all the money and

[00:37:44] investing into something that you just don't know if it's going to work. Right, right. So it's like

[00:37:49] the member for like the small business owner that's trying to find space, like, hey, here's

[00:37:53] a 20 bucks and you can see what's available in the coast coast area. Or for the business that

[00:37:58] has space, it's like 30 or 40 bucks depending on the membership component that you you want to apply

[00:38:04] Yeah, well, I know that LA I've had two or three clients in the LA area. Like, you're just sticking

[00:38:12] with mobile or not starting because they're like, I can't find a space, you know, because there's so

[00:38:15] many places, so many places and not so many doors to knock on to find and there's so many people,

[00:38:20] I know the spaces are there. And the part of it's like, you know, getting out and being like

[00:38:25] committed to doing it. But it's like, I live in San Francisco, there's a lot of doors to knock on,

[00:38:29] it would be easier to, you know, go and find it. And I found the place to sublease my for doing

[00:38:35] massage 20 years ago on Craigslist, you know, but that's where I found my first space, right?

[00:38:39] Right. But I know Craigslist has like gone downhill a lot or, you know, people aren't,

[00:38:45] you know, they've had a lot of other issues. I certainly don't go there for stuff anymore.

[00:38:51] You know, I think I know there's a need in LA for sure. And I'm sure that, you know,

[00:38:55] like small towns, it's helpful. But I think in a big town where you just some people know,

[00:39:00] it's probably speed up the process too, right? Yeah, yeah. And again, there's so many spaces

[00:39:05] that are built around but they're like the cost to build out the space that I want versus be a

[00:39:10] part of a space that makes sense to be around. Yeah, it's just it's such an it's an easier

[00:39:14] model. And it allows you to grow in a more efficient way, right? You don't have to isolate yourself

[00:39:20] into even though I'm in one chiropractic office, I've got 12 other chiros and I naturally network

[00:39:26] with and send people to because it depends on personality and style and other things too.

[00:39:31] Yeah, that's awesome. If there's anything you've learned as a business owner in the last

[00:39:36] two or three years, like what's your what are your what are your top lessons? Like what are

[00:39:40] the things that you've learned along the way that you'd like to pass on? Or you think other

[00:39:44] people should know if they're coming behind you? Yeah, I would say number one, imposter syndrome

[00:39:50] is a real thing. Like you're going to stress yourself out all the time, especially if you're

[00:39:54] a perfectionist in like the PT world, right? And being okay with the fact that like,

[00:40:02] expect to be stressed, expect that it's going to be hard, but understand, if you do it right,

[00:40:07] you're going to be fine. Right? I think number one is, is just getting through getting through that,

[00:40:13] that whole paradigm is the hardest part, right? Because a lot of us that are in like, again,

[00:40:21] the past athletic world that have lived in the success of competition, struggle is the hardest

[00:40:26] part, right? And being able to work through that you'll get through it, right? But dealing with

[00:40:30] it as hard, right? And accepting that it's going to be part of growth is hard. And also accepting

[00:40:35] that more problems are going to be what happened as you grow. And that's a good thing, right? But

[00:40:41] it is going to add stress, right? And it's going to make you double guess some different things.

[00:40:45] So I think number one advice would be expect to run into imposter syndrome. Know you can get

[00:40:51] through it, but have a good network of people that can be your support system, whether it's

[00:40:55] family directly or it's other people, whether it is another PT or a massage therapist or like

[00:41:02] someone else that's living in the same world, because we all run into the same problems,

[00:41:06] it's just how are we approaching our clients differently, right? So I would say expect

[00:41:13] adversity, but be ready to get through it. Yeah. Okay, my question is this, like you got

[00:41:20] three businesses. How do you keep them all growing? Or how do you juggle all the balls

[00:41:25] while not letting like the clinic die while you're focusing on these other ones or

[00:41:30] letting one of these other ones die while you're like, what's the secret that

[00:41:33] you've got to making these things work and all kind of move forward together?

[00:41:39] I think secret number one, again, is support system, right? Have a support system that

[00:41:44] believes in you and reinforces the goals that you are trying to put forth and trying to achieve.

[00:41:51] Two is be okay with setting boundaries, right? I think one of the hardest things that people will

[00:41:58] go through is they feel like they have to always be able to adapt or help create more

[00:42:04] availability in their schedule. And if you let yourself constantly be available, or you let

[00:42:09] yourself constantly have to adapt, then you're also losing your own ability to step away,

[00:42:15] recharge to build up. So as much as it is, there's three different things going on. It's a

[00:42:20] very delineated at this time of day, everything's down, phones down, computers closed, I'm here

[00:42:25] with my kids, my wife. And then I can step back in at this time later. There's again, there's

[00:42:31] exceptions, right? Like tonight, I'm out at a group dinner for a bunch of dentists doing a workshop

[00:42:37] for a whole dental community that found me that's like, hey, tell us how to fix ourselves. Right?

[00:42:44] And so you make exception to those things. But but being okay with accepting that your business can

[00:42:49] still grow when you step away. Right? I think I think, again, the hard part is stepping away.

[00:42:57] So I think I think finding a support system be having a schedule that you can stick to get

[00:43:01] Google Calendar is great. I live by that thing now. Right? It tells me exactly what I'm doing

[00:43:05] at all parts of the day. Or I totally forget what I'm someone asking me like, when is this? What is

[00:43:09] that? You know, especially my kids or my dad. I'm like, I don't know. But I can look it up for you.

[00:43:14] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So so yeah, no, I think, I think some of it again,

[00:43:19] it just comes down to like your your willingness to put the work into them. Right? Yeah. I mean,

[00:43:24] none of it's easy, right? You've been through this longer than I have, right? There's nothing

[00:43:28] easy about running your own business. And if you expect it to be right, then you're you're really,

[00:43:34] I think kind of fooling yourself, you have to be willing to, to struggle and to push a little bit

[00:43:38] to find, you know, that light at the end of the tunnel. It's just getting through that part and

[00:43:42] accepting that that's part of the journey. That's the hard part. Right? 100%. Michael, where do you

[00:43:48] see yourself in the next three to five years? What's what? Where do you see your businesses?

[00:43:52] You know, for you? Like, what's the what's the next short term goal with these with this?

[00:43:56] And I, I'm bad at short term goals. I like I look way ahead. Okay, tell me way ahead. What is it?

[00:44:03] Oh, man, my, my, my lifelong, I'm from Minnesota and by trade. So my goal is cabin on the lake,

[00:44:10] be that quiet away from people. And that's my escape. That's what that's, that's my long term

[00:44:14] goal. They'll do that with my kids, my wife, life's good to get there, right? Like business wise,

[00:44:20] PT world, I would love to get myself to be at a point where I'm treating clients three to three

[00:44:23] and a half days in the week. I'm doing bike fit stuff a half a day to a day in the week. And then

[00:44:28] I've got an admin day and white kids part of the day of the week. I'm not someone that I'm not

[00:44:33] someone that ever wants to just manage from a distance. So I always like to have a hand in

[00:44:37] the business. That's probably my biggest fault. But at the end of the day, you know, that's kind

[00:44:43] of what the schedule I would love to have is, I'd love to bring on essentially two more providers in

[00:44:50] the PT business. I'd like to bring on one or two more people in the bike fitting business. And

[00:44:54] then the subways business is honestly, it's built out so it can pretty much run itself.

[00:45:01] It's just a matter of then building up the resources component and figuring out how do we,

[00:45:05] how do we fit the need, fill the need, right? I mean, it's you're running into more and more

[00:45:09] needs running into more ideas, right? So the goal is to not go too crazy with it, but see where it

[00:45:14] can go. Yeah. And you got it for that. You got what you got to get a critical mass of options on

[00:45:17] there to get people to join. You got to get people looking at it to get, get options for people to

[00:45:23] rent. Right? Yeah. So it's, it's the, it's the game of patience, right? Thing we tell all of

[00:45:29] our clients, you gotta have, you gotta be patient with the journey and you got to accept time as a

[00:45:33] factor. But then as a business owner, we're like, come on, this is ridiculous. It's taking too long.

[00:45:38] Right. That's awesome. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you think is important or I

[00:45:42] should have? No, I, you know, I, I think, I think, I mean, you've covered a lot, you know, at the end

[00:45:48] of the day, part of the entrepreneur world is just again, being willing to, to kind of grow with it.

[00:45:55] Right. I think whether it's being a provider or an entrepreneur, right. We, if we're not open to

[00:46:00] growth mindset and accepting that there's another way of thinking that maybe I'm neglecting,

[00:46:04] or there's someone else that's smarter than me. Right. Again, be the dumbest person in the room,

[00:46:09] go ask questions because someone's got an answer that you haven't thought of before

[00:46:14] or got a different path that might give you different ideas. I think, again, it just being,

[00:46:20] being open to the fact that there's, there's so much more out there that you still don't even know.

[00:46:24] Heck, I'm only, I'm not even two years into this. I had no plans of running my own business. I'm at

[00:46:28] three right now. So we'll see what happens. Nice. That's awesome. Well, if someone wants to

[00:46:35] find out about you or stock your, even check out the, even the sub-lease solutions,

[00:46:39] there are a website for that. It's like, where should they come look for you online or website?

[00:46:43] Something like that. So, so PT website or PT divergent rehab and wellness websites,

[00:46:48] divergent rehab.com. That's you find it both on Facebook and Instagram. Thank goodness for my

[00:46:53] wife. She is the social media person. I'm just not that great at it. You can find us on Instagram

[00:46:58] there. The bike fitting. So revolution bike fitting is the bike fitting business. You can

[00:47:05] find that at revolutionbikefitting.com and then the sub-lease business. So subway solutions is

[00:47:09] the name of it. So subway solutions.com is there again, it's on Facebook. It's on Instagram. Go

[00:47:16] play with the website, reach out, ask questions message anytime in the email world. I mean,

[00:47:22] that's what we're there for. Give us feedback things that you'd like things you don't like.

[00:47:25] I mean, the goal is to help small business grow and fill needs that you have. So that way you

[00:47:32] can continue to grow and live your life instead of surviving. Yeah, dude. I love that. This is so

[00:47:37] great. Hey, Michael, it was great catching up with you. I really appreciate you spending time

[00:47:42] today to hop on a show. No, it's awesome catching up. Yeah, man. Hey, congratulations on all the

[00:47:47] success and growth. After just a few years, I'm really looking forward to seeing what the next

[00:47:53] five to 10 bring. When you do get that cabin in the woods, make sure you send me a picture.

[00:47:58] Oh, you better believe it. Once I get that cabin in the woods, I'll be out there more often.

[00:48:02] Yeah, that's awesome. Hey guys, thanks for listening to the show today. Again,

[00:48:07] this is the Aaron LaBauer Show and our guest is Michael Murphy. Please just take a moment to pat

[00:48:14] yourself on the back. Go out network with some more people. I think my big takeaway is go network

[00:48:19] for your patients. And then there's all the other good stuff about like, expect it to be hard

[00:48:25] because it is, but the heart is worth it. Right, Michael? Definitely.

[00:48:28] We'll see you guys on the next show. Thanks so much.