Overcoming Self-Sabotage To Grow As An Owner And Leader With Karen Edwards

[00:00:00] The garage that I'm talking about with the sandpaper and it's a little harder to get to is your sage.

[00:00:05] And when there are ways to access that, some of those ways are just simply questioning the thought, asking the opposite question.

[00:00:14] Because your survival brain is designed to create fear and to hyper-focus on the negative thought and just convince, you know, our brains are designed to basically prove our thoughts true.

[00:00:28] Welcome. You've entered the Physical Therapy Owners Club podcast, where your host, Nathan Shields, and other successful PT owners and leaders share their experience and insights on how to build successful PT businesses.

[00:00:41] They'll share the stories of their paths to success and show you how you can also obtain greater freedom and more profits from your business.

[00:00:48] That's what the PT Owners Club is all about, greater freedom and more profits.

[00:00:53] There's plenty of room for you as well, so come on in and join the club.

[00:00:59] Hello and welcome to the Private Practice Owners Club podcast.

[00:01:02] I'm Nathan Shields and I'm excited to bring on a guest who is actually the wife of a previous guest who is also a physical therapy clinic owner, Karen Edwards, the lovely spouse of Stephen Edwards, who's been on the podcast a couple of times already.

[00:01:19] You might have heard about him or listened to those episodes in the past.

[00:01:22] But Karen Edwards was recently a guest speaker at our first ever conference that we had in September of 2024 for the Private Practice Owners Club.

[00:01:31] And she spoke about and she is a coach on self-sabotage, and she's also a podcaster in that realm.

[00:01:39] So, Karen, thank you for joining today.

[00:01:42] It's awesome to have you.

[00:01:43] My pleasure.

[00:01:44] Thank you for having me.

[00:01:45] Yeah, your presentation about self-sabotage got a ton of positive feedback.

[00:01:51] People devoured it, loved it.

[00:01:53] We should have had you on for another hour, maybe two, to go through this stuff because people want to learn what's making them tick, what's sabotaging them, especially as owners.

[00:02:02] Why am I staying in this rut?

[00:02:04] Why can't I get forward?

[00:02:05] But it was tremendous and it was great.

[00:02:07] And it was really nice to have someone outside of the industry speaking to us as well.

[00:02:11] And so that was really cool.

[00:02:13] But your work regarding self-sabotage isn't just for clinic owners.

[00:02:19] This is for individuals as well, right?

[00:02:21] So you're bringing this perspective to our group because you have a husband that's living through his experiences and you've helped him with self-sabotage issues, all based on the book Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Shamin.

[00:02:35] And I highly recommend you go and read.

[00:02:38] It's a great thing.

[00:02:39] Take the test.

[00:02:40] Find out what your saboteur is.

[00:02:42] There's what, seven saboteurs, right, Karen?

[00:02:45] There's nine saboteurs, yeah.

[00:02:46] Nine saboteurs.

[00:02:48] Lots of options.

[00:02:49] Yeah, exactly.

[00:02:50] But great to think about, man, what is really hindering me in making decisions moving forward?

[00:02:55] What's stopping me?

[00:02:56] Where do my fears lie?

[00:02:57] What are my weaknesses and so forth?

[00:03:00] You're going to explain a lot of that, but I just wanted to ask, what got you into this in the first place?

[00:03:07] Oh, wow.

[00:03:07] Gosh.

[00:03:08] Like before COVID, I had a lot of anxiety.

[00:03:11] Just personally, I have a son who struggles with anxiety.

[00:03:14] And I started listening to a friend's podcast.

[00:03:16] She was a life coach and really helped me.

[00:03:19] Some of the resources that she and tools that she gave just really helped me and made me realize it's not necessarily my circumstances, right?

[00:03:27] Like these things that I'm anxious about, it's the what I'm making them mean.

[00:03:30] And so I just loved it.

[00:03:32] It helped me so much and it helped me help my son.

[00:03:34] And so I just really wanted more.

[00:03:36] So I decided to go to school and become certified as a life coach.

[00:03:40] And honestly, went to school not thinking I would be a coach.

[00:03:44] Just, I just want all of it for me and my family and to understand my brain.

[00:03:48] I'm just really fascinated with our brain.

[00:03:51] And so it was just purely, I just want it for information and to help me and my family.

[00:03:55] And then I just can't shut up about it.

[00:03:57] You can't shut up about it because it's been so impactful in your life, I assume, right?

[00:04:00] So impactful.

[00:04:01] And then people have asked me and then my daughter's in college and I'm helping her, using her as my guinea pig during school when I need all these hours for certification.

[00:04:10] So then she's like, we should do a podcast.

[00:04:12] So that's where the whole podcast came up.

[00:04:14] She's the host.

[00:04:16] She brings me topics.

[00:04:17] We talk about it.

[00:04:18] Okay.

[00:04:19] And I give her some coaching perspectives on these different topics.

[00:04:22] Yeah, it just took off into a coaching business.

[00:04:26] So now it's what I do.

[00:04:27] And I love it.

[00:04:28] It started just general life coaching, right?

[00:04:30] Just like, what are my thoughts?

[00:04:31] Creating.

[00:04:32] But then it's just veered over time into what is now I'm a self-sabotage coach.

[00:04:37] And that's my goal is to help people understand their brain.

[00:04:41] Unless you understand how your brain works, you'll naturally sabotage yourself because we have a negative brain.

[00:04:46] We have a primitive survival brain that doesn't have the same goals as right.

[00:04:51] Like our, our true selves.

[00:04:52] So if you don't know that you're likely sabotaging what you really want.

[00:04:58] So when I initially thought, and this was a couple of years ago before reading the book, when I initially thought of self-sabotage, I thought that some people are self-saboteurs.

[00:05:08] And that was a distinct group of people.

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:10] Like toxic people.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:12] I didn't belong in that group.

[00:05:13] I wasn't self-sabotaging myself.

[00:05:15] I just assumed those people are, have a horrible toxic lives and I don't have a horrible toxic life.

[00:05:21] And they're obviously sabotaging themselves.

[00:05:24] But what the book opens up to me and the information says is we all have a saboteur somewhere in our mind.

[00:05:32] And if you had said, this is where the negative self-talk comes from.

[00:05:37] This is where the negative self-image comes from.

[00:05:41] Then I can relate and say, oh, I got that.

[00:05:44] I got that.

[00:05:45] You're just saying self-sabotage.

[00:05:48] And I just used other words to describe it.

[00:05:50] Right.

[00:05:51] But we all have that.

[00:05:52] Yeah.

[00:05:52] And I had a very much similar view of it until I learned what I learned also.

[00:05:57] It's just like, oh, like so many things I thought was my personality.

[00:06:00] Oh, wait, this is not my personality to worry all the time or to have anxiety.

[00:06:05] That's my brain trying to protect me, but it's sabotaging.

[00:06:09] It's holding you back.

[00:06:11] Right.

[00:06:11] Yeah.

[00:06:11] How do you describe the sabotage?

[00:06:13] What does that look like when there is self-sabotage?

[00:06:16] Are there too many forms to describe or can you be succinct?

[00:06:18] Yeah.

[00:06:19] So basically, Shirzad wrote the book Positive Intelligence in an effort to take like the

[00:06:25] complexities of like neuroscience and making it understandable for just us regular humans,

[00:06:30] which I appreciate.

[00:06:31] And that's and it was just so helpful to me personally.

[00:06:34] That's why I use the program with my clients.

[00:06:37] But it just makes it so that we understand our brains better without having to be a scientist.

[00:06:42] Okay.

[00:06:43] It's like we have two brains, right?

[00:06:46] We have our higher brain, which is which involves our true self.

[00:06:50] And then we have this protective brain of our bodies that's designed to always keep us fearful.

[00:06:57] It's the tool is like fear.

[00:07:00] Okay.

[00:07:01] But we have another brain that's tool is like love and curiosity and gratitude.

[00:07:05] So one being more of like the monkey brain survival, just get fed and survive and don't

[00:07:11] die at all costs.

[00:07:13] And the other one being achieving, dreaming and living a life that's beyond what I'm currently

[00:07:18] expecting.

[00:07:19] Yeah.

[00:07:19] Creating.

[00:07:20] Yes.

[00:07:21] Sure.

[00:07:21] Yes.

[00:07:21] Okay.

[00:07:22] Understood.

[00:07:22] So he just made a simple program to help you stay on top of that brain, because if you

[00:07:27] don't, if you aren't aware, you don't have the awareness that we have this like survival

[00:07:32] primitive brain, that's always trying to create fear and keep you safe.

[00:07:37] And I, we talk on my podcast a lot about, we just refer to that as keeping you in the

[00:07:41] cave, right?

[00:07:43] Back in the cave, stop trying to live life and take risks.

[00:07:46] Just go back in the cave.

[00:07:47] That's what it's designed to do.

[00:07:49] Play it safe.

[00:07:49] Play it safe.

[00:07:50] Exactly.

[00:07:51] And if you aren't aware of this brain, then I also like to explain that brain is like default

[00:07:57] automatic.

[00:07:58] If you don't choose to use your higher brain, you will automatically default into that brain.

[00:08:03] And so people don't even know that their whole lives are being run and decisions are being

[00:08:08] made by this saboteur brain.

[00:08:10] By the lesser of the two.

[00:08:12] It's almost like you want to say that you're intentional about your thoughts and what you're

[00:08:17] doing.

[00:08:17] But if you're not being intentional about your thoughts and what you're doing and choosing

[00:08:22] one thing over another or one thought over another, you are defaulting to the lesser brain.

[00:08:29] Perfectly said.

[00:08:30] Perfectly.

[00:08:30] And I've realized in my life, like, wow, that is so true.

[00:08:34] Like we think we're using our agency, but unless you're intentionally using your agency,

[00:08:39] you're not.

[00:08:39] And if you're not intentionally using your agency to do something higher, one thing, obviously

[00:08:45] you have to eat to live, but yeah, but don't worry.

[00:08:48] Your survival brain will make sure you eat.

[00:08:50] Right.

[00:08:51] It's uncomfortable to be hungry.

[00:08:52] Yeah, exactly.

[00:08:53] I got you.

[00:08:54] Before we go on too long, people might be screaming.

[00:08:56] Like, what is the name of your podcast?

[00:08:57] Oh, the name of our podcast is called IDK.

[00:09:01] Let's ask my mom.

[00:09:02] So I don't always ask my mom, but abbreviated.

[00:09:04] Okay, cool.

[00:09:06] Awesome.

[00:09:06] Do you mind laying out the saboteurs that can affect us?

[00:09:10] And to be clear, each of us has some measure of each saboteur in our brain, correct?

[00:09:18] But some speak much more loudly than others.

[00:09:21] Yes.

[00:09:21] And some show up at different areas of your life.

[00:09:26] Some might show up more with your family.

[00:09:27] Another saboteur might show up more at work, depending on your fears.

[00:09:31] And I also want to point out that we all have saboteur.

[00:09:35] We all have saboteurs because we all have a survival primitive brain, right?

[00:09:40] There's no one in one thing that I have to really do when I'm working with people.

[00:09:43] And I did with the conference is make sure everyone understands y'all have one.

[00:09:48] There's no embarrassment here.

[00:09:49] This is not a, this is not about your personality.

[00:09:52] This is just about how your brain is trying to keep you safe, right?

[00:09:55] And that's why I had everybody raise their hands because I wanted everyone to see you're

[00:09:59] not alone.

[00:10:00] We're all human and we all have.

[00:10:02] And your saboteurs over time developed based on honestly, your gifts, right?

[00:10:09] It's just taking something that you're really good at.

[00:10:12] And we try it.

[00:10:13] We, in this program, we call your higher brain, your sage.

[00:10:16] Okay.

[00:10:16] It's just a good word to help you remember.

[00:10:19] It's just another word for your higher brain.

[00:10:21] The saboteurs and the sage saboteurs.

[00:10:23] Yeah, saboteurs and the sage, the two opposite.

[00:10:24] And everybody's, we all were born with different talents, gifts, sensitivities, and our survival

[00:10:32] brain recognized, oh, you're a very caring person.

[00:10:36] You're so empathetic.

[00:10:38] Let's abuse that, add fear to it.

[00:10:40] And now we got a saboteur.

[00:10:41] So your saboteur, although it is negatively affecting you and causing you to sabotage yourself, it

[00:10:50] is also showing you what your gifts are.

[00:10:52] And my goal as a coach is to help people get back to the gift of and create from there,

[00:10:58] not go to abuse of the gift.

[00:10:59] That's a lot of work.

[00:11:01] Anyway, to answer your question.

[00:11:03] So the different areas that we sabotage are avoider, controller, hyperachiever, hyperrational,

[00:11:12] hypervigilant, pleaser, stickler, restless, and victim.

[00:11:17] And we had in the conference, we all took the test and your results come back where they're

[00:11:22] all listed, but it tells you which is your top, which is your second.

[00:11:26] And I've been doing this for a while and I've coached a lot of people and I've never

[00:11:32] had someone say, that's not true.

[00:11:34] Everybody's results.

[00:11:35] Like the way the test is set up is it's yeah.

[00:11:38] That's the people are always like, yeah.

[00:11:40] In our group, I remember the larger of the groups that separated themselves was the hyperachiever,

[00:11:47] if I remember correctly.

[00:11:50] And the, was restless a big one?

[00:11:52] I think restless was a big one.

[00:11:54] Avoider was a big one.

[00:11:55] Avoider was a big one.

[00:11:56] Which is interesting just because of the whole, what we're there for, right?

[00:12:00] Business owners.

[00:12:01] These are all business owners.

[00:12:03] That was very telling.

[00:12:04] Yeah.

[00:12:04] So you expect the hyperachiever.

[00:12:06] For sure.

[00:12:06] The restless was a little bit interesting, but when it was described to me, these are people

[00:12:10] with a ton of ideas that their mind's going nonstop.

[00:12:13] Okay.

[00:12:14] Entrepreneurial mindset.

[00:12:15] For sure.

[00:12:16] Avoider was interesting that it was, that it showed up so much amongst a group of small

[00:12:21] business owners.

[00:12:22] Yeah.

[00:12:22] Again, the gift of an avoider is like very easy going, even kill flexible person.

[00:12:30] Someone who likes just peace.

[00:12:32] It sounds like a physical therapist.

[00:12:34] Yeah.

[00:12:34] I just want to create like it, right?

[00:12:36] Like someone easy going, right?

[00:12:37] Like you go to physical therapy.

[00:12:39] Why is the physical therapist always so chill?

[00:12:41] Right.

[00:12:41] So like this calm, like I've been going for my shoulder and I'm like, I always leave just

[00:12:46] being like, love these people.

[00:12:48] They're so positive.

[00:12:49] Right.

[00:12:50] So that's the underlying strength of an avoider.

[00:12:53] It's just that your brain, your primitive brain added fear to that gift.

[00:12:59] Now I won't be able to survive if I don't feel that peace.

[00:13:03] So when a problem arises, I got to pretend it's not here because I, it's like no growth.

[00:13:08] I just want to stay in the cave.

[00:13:11] Which is hard to do.

[00:13:12] If you're going to have a small business, if you're going to own a small business, it's

[00:13:15] really hard to stay in the cave and be comfortable because that's not what small business is about.

[00:13:20] Right.

[00:13:21] Exactly.

[00:13:22] But also why might I avoid or choose to be a business owner?

[00:13:25] Someone who tends to avoid is because the underlying gift is I want to give people peace,

[00:13:29] right?

[00:13:29] Like I want people to have an easygoing, comfortable life and get this injury figured out.

[00:13:34] You want to give that to other people.

[00:13:35] That's your strength.

[00:13:36] But then you set your brain want sabotages that by adding fear to it.

[00:13:40] And now I avoid hard conversations, hard decisions.

[00:13:46] And that does not go with being a business owner because you're going to, if you want to be a

[00:13:50] business owner, you're going to be uncomfortable.

[00:13:52] And so, and that's okay.

[00:13:53] You just have to learn to develop your tolerance of discomfort.

[00:13:58] And it starts with recognizing it.

[00:14:00] How would someone recognize that the saboteur is now coming forward?

[00:14:04] The first step is to maybe take that assessment and just get some awareness around it.

[00:14:08] Where would people find the assessment really?

[00:14:09] Oh, you know what?

[00:14:10] Maybe we can even post it if you, somewhere you have this, but it is, you could just Google,

[00:14:15] honestly, saboteur assessment or positive intelligence assessment.

[00:14:20] It will pop right up.

[00:14:21] And maybe we can add a link somewhere.

[00:14:23] I'll put the link in there because not everyone knows how to spell saboteur.

[00:14:26] Yeah.

[00:14:28] It's a word I use every day.

[00:14:29] So I forget that is a weird word, but yeah.

[00:14:32] Like for my husband, for example, like he didn't know that his brain was doing this and

[00:14:38] he couldn't figure out why can't I get past or handle these, get to the next step or right.

[00:14:46] Make these hard decisions.

[00:14:48] There's a feeling of being stuck.

[00:14:49] Oh yeah.

[00:14:50] Is that a lot of it?

[00:14:52] Oh yeah.

[00:14:52] Does anxiety and stress show up in these situations?

[00:14:55] Because you're not, because you're avoiding, you're not addressing.

[00:14:58] And that problem grows and you're like, and we're like, and as the, as bigger as that gets,

[00:15:04] you don't, you're able to put your finger on the problem because now it's gotten so big.

[00:15:09] It's just, I don't know what is it.

[00:15:12] Is it?

[00:15:12] And then we start blaming the circumstance.

[00:15:14] We start blaming the insurances.

[00:15:15] We start blaming the employees, but really it was that I'm avoiding.

[00:15:21] Is that avoiding situation specific to the avoider?

[00:15:26] Or is that typical across the saboteurs that is there a general sense across the saboteurs

[00:15:31] where anyone in when any of those saboteurs shows up, they're going to be in a state of

[00:15:36] what fear, anger, reaching out or harming other people or themselves?

[00:15:42] I think like fear and anxiety is probably an underlying theme through all this.

[00:15:48] For all nine.

[00:15:49] Okay.

[00:15:49] Yes.

[00:15:50] But avoiding is specific to the avoider.

[00:15:54] I personally, not to be shared too much, but my top saboteur is hypervigilant.

[00:16:00] That would make sense, right?

[00:16:01] When I shared how I got into life coaching was anxiety.

[00:16:05] And so that made a lot of sense when I did this and realized, oh, my top way that my brain's

[00:16:11] trying to keep me safe is convincing me that I should worry.

[00:16:15] And our saboteur brain is making us a lot of promises.

[00:16:19] If you avoid, you'll feel peace.

[00:16:23] If you're hypervigilant.

[00:16:26] If I'm hypervigilant, then I'll be able to feel peace because I'll be able to stop bad

[00:16:29] things from happening in the future.

[00:16:31] I'm going to keep people from making bad decisions.

[00:16:33] I'm going to control every circumstance around me.

[00:16:37] Yeah.

[00:16:37] I can preempt anything bad if I worry, which is absolutely not true.

[00:16:42] When you realize the saboteur is basically saying, worry, because then you can prevent

[00:16:47] things and feel peace.

[00:16:49] And as I've learned, when did I feel peace?

[00:16:53] I'm 51.

[00:16:54] I've never, it never delivered that to me.

[00:16:58] And I never prevented anything.

[00:17:00] But it gives me little breadcrumbs here and there to make me think that it's serving me.

[00:17:04] But it's actually, you're the problem.

[00:17:08] Like the worry is the problem.

[00:17:10] And so it's, I never actually get what it's promising me.

[00:17:13] And it's the same with the avoider.

[00:17:14] I'm telling you, if you just avoid this, you can get back to peace and just shows up in your

[00:17:20] relationships.

[00:17:20] We're talking about business, right?

[00:17:23] Business owners and how it shows up in your business.

[00:17:25] But this is also happening in your relationships.

[00:17:27] My husband was like, it was really helpful for us to do this and realize I'm a hypervigilant.

[00:17:32] So I want to talk about everything.

[00:17:34] I am not an avoider.

[00:17:35] Like you asked, did the avoider show up?

[00:17:36] No.

[00:17:37] Like I want to address everything and at all times.

[00:17:42] And I think a lot of wives are like that, to be honest.

[00:17:45] And it was just helpful for me to see that he really thinks that he's helping me when he wants

[00:17:53] to avoid this conversation.

[00:17:54] Now, is that his saboteur?

[00:17:57] It's one of his.

[00:17:57] I don't think it's his top.

[00:17:59] It's not his top.

[00:17:59] It's up there in the top three.

[00:18:01] It's just been interesting to see his saboteurs promising him, hey, if you just ignore this

[00:18:05] conversation or this uncomfortable topic, she won't feel any, it won't grow for her and

[00:18:10] it will go away.

[00:18:10] She'll feel peace.

[00:18:11] And it might eventually go away.

[00:18:13] Like it might resolve itself and she'll never have to know about it.

[00:18:16] Yeah.

[00:18:16] And I did her the biggest favor ever by not talking to her about it.

[00:18:19] She didn't have to feel all that.

[00:18:20] And that's not how it works because then my anxiety grew because I'm not heard and like

[00:18:26] it never went away.

[00:18:27] I got more fear.

[00:18:28] So it's just, it was just really interesting to see how, and this is true for business too,

[00:18:34] our saboteurs.

[00:18:35] Sometimes you just realize, wow, that was my saboteur and your saboteur.

[00:18:39] And that whole interaction wasn't my true self or your true self.

[00:18:42] It was both of our fears colliding.

[00:18:44] And there's a fine line there.

[00:18:46] Maybe it's not so fine, but I know mine is hyper achiever.

[00:18:50] And so I was always judging myself.

[00:18:54] Am I producing?

[00:18:55] Am I achieving?

[00:18:56] Am I gaining more in and of itself?

[00:18:59] That's not a bad thing, right?

[00:19:01] Right.

[00:19:01] But what I've experienced in the last five years after selling my practice is now I don't

[00:19:07] have, I have, I don't have something to really cling on to, to say that I produced that or I

[00:19:14] achieved blank.

[00:19:16] Thus my self-worth takes a hit.

[00:19:19] If I'm not producing and if I'm not doing, then what worth am I?

[00:19:24] Wow.

[00:19:24] That is so good to see, right?

[00:19:27] Not thought, but good to see.

[00:19:29] It's not easy.

[00:19:30] And that, and those thoughts haven't gone away.

[00:19:33] Right.

[00:19:33] I'm still working on it, but I know that's there.

[00:19:36] And I know that my self-worth is not tied to what I produce or achieve.

[00:19:40] Oh, good.

[00:19:40] And you're going to have to remind yourself that you're going to have to remind yourself a

[00:19:43] lot, right?

[00:19:43] You have to retrain your.

[00:19:44] All the time.

[00:19:45] Yeah.

[00:19:46] I love what you're saying.

[00:19:46] It's not bad in itself.

[00:19:47] Like all we're doing, all we want here is to, we want to achieve.

[00:19:53] Achieve is amazing.

[00:19:55] Also that's the name of my husband's business.

[00:19:57] So yay.

[00:19:59] Achieving is not a problem.

[00:20:02] A hyperachiever is a driven goal oriented, self-directed person.

[00:20:06] That is amazing and beautiful.

[00:20:08] And that is a gift that you were given your survival brain took it and added fear to it.

[00:20:14] So for you, it's, we just got to take the hyper part off.

[00:20:19] And the hyper part is my worth is tied to this.

[00:20:23] Instead of, I love to be a physical therapy owner.

[00:20:27] I love what I do.

[00:20:29] It's separating like my worth never changes.

[00:20:31] I just get to experience new things.

[00:20:34] So that's so good.

[00:20:36] And I think there's a reason why when we did this conference that physical therapy owners,

[00:20:40] there was a lot of hyperachievers.

[00:20:42] And even if it wasn't their top, it was one of the top three.

[00:20:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:20:46] Exactly.

[00:20:47] I don't want to spend too much time in the saboteur phase because I'd rather talk.

[00:20:51] I also want to talk about the sage.

[00:20:53] So say they take the test.

[00:20:55] They see some of these saboteurs in their life and how it's sabotaging them in relationships

[00:21:00] or in their professional business, or especially with them as leaders with a team.

[00:21:06] How do then you bring forth the sage to overcome some of these saboteurs?

[00:21:13] So the way neuroscience has just amazing that they've been able to see how we can access

[00:21:19] that part of our brain more.

[00:21:21] It's like literally a part of our brain that we have access to.

[00:21:24] We just, it feels more comfortable for some reason.

[00:21:27] I think I explained it in the conference as you have two garages in your home.

[00:21:32] Let's say you're one of those people that have two garages and one is really easy to go to

[00:21:37] because it's just like straight out the back door.

[00:21:39] There's the garage.

[00:21:40] And then there's one that you have to go through the laundry room and then there's a side door.

[00:21:44] And they both have tools, different tools.

[00:21:47] So like in one garage, we have like hammers and shovels.

[00:21:50] And in the other garage, we have like my husband's woodworking, like sandpaper and like

[00:21:56] woodworking tools that we don't use all the time.

[00:21:58] So we just get so used to going for the hammer.

[00:22:01] And then we, and then, so it's just like, I tried to relate that to physical therapy owners

[00:22:06] is that we keep going to the easy answer, but really maybe you didn't need a hammer.

[00:22:13] Maybe you needed sandpaper or a different tool, but we forget that we have agency and it,

[00:22:20] but it might take a little more work to go down the laundry room to get out to the other garage.

[00:22:25] And so it's just because our, because we have bodies that need to be protected and there are

[00:22:31] dangers in the world, that survival part of our brain is important, right?

[00:22:35] Put on your seatbelt.

[00:22:36] Remember to stop at the stop sign.

[00:22:38] It is important, but it's not the kind of brain we need for relationships, right?

[00:22:44] Like it's not always the answer.

[00:22:46] Right.

[00:22:46] Those aren't always the answer for higher level thinking.

[00:22:49] Yeah.

[00:22:49] The hammer is not always the answer.

[00:22:51] And so the garage that I'm talking about with the sandpaper, and it's a little harder

[00:22:55] to get to is your sage.

[00:22:57] And when there are ways to access that, some of those ways are just simply questioning the

[00:23:03] thought, asking the opposite question, because your survival brain is designed to create fear

[00:23:10] and to hyper-focus on the negative thought and just convince our brains are designed to basically

[00:23:16] prove our thoughts true.

[00:23:17] It does matter what you're thinking.

[00:23:19] Some people are like, it doesn't matter.

[00:23:21] It's just a thought you're actually believing it.

[00:23:23] You, the more you think it, the deeper that thought gets in your brain and it's harder to

[00:23:27] see anything else.

[00:23:28] And that's, that's confirmation bias when we just already think like it's just true to

[00:23:33] us because our brain just made it concrete.

[00:23:36] Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:37] And in the physical therapy space, not to speak for OT speech and whatever, but there's a common

[00:23:44] theme that there are declining reimbursements.

[00:23:47] That's statistically true, but you could go forward and say, insurances aren't going to

[00:23:52] pay you anymore.

[00:23:53] Why bother?

[00:23:54] I felt that way myself, but there are plenty of people that are renegotiating contracts and

[00:23:59] getting higher reimbursement rates.

[00:24:00] They're finding ways to collect more revenue.

[00:24:02] They're adding this or dropping an insurance to avoid that and get a higher profit margin anyways.

[00:24:08] But that, that I think that's just an example of, we tell ourselves the declining reimbursement

[00:24:14] rate is killing us.

[00:24:16] And if you stop there and just accept the thought without questioning it.

[00:24:21] And I think that's what we're talking about here.

[00:24:22] The sage would question that and say, is that true?

[00:24:26] Or what can we do to increase?

[00:24:29] Yeah.

[00:24:30] What else?

[00:24:30] What else?

[00:24:31] Instead of just taking a thought of we're screwed, insurances don't reimburse.

[00:24:36] We can't make, I think we can't make money in physical therapy.

[00:24:39] And your brain is okay.

[00:24:40] If that's what we're going to, is that the thought?

[00:24:42] Okay.

[00:24:43] Cause I'm going to prove it true to you.

[00:24:44] And your brain will block out any evidence that it isn't true, right?

[00:24:47] Our brains are designed to save energy and just go, okay, let's go with that thought.

[00:24:51] And it will just keep you, it will become a fact to you.

[00:24:54] The more you think a thought, it's going to eventually become a belief and our beliefs

[00:24:59] create a reality.

[00:25:01] So to, to, to someone who is thinking, I can't make money in physical therapy.

[00:25:04] It's like fact.

[00:25:05] It's going to happen.

[00:25:06] Yeah.

[00:25:06] And so I love what you said.

[00:25:07] It's just like, yeah, one way to get to the sage is to question it or say, what?

[00:25:12] Sometimes I, for me, I ask my brain the exact opposite.

[00:25:15] How have some people made money in physical therapy?

[00:25:18] It's like after all, it's your survival brain off.

[00:25:19] What?

[00:25:20] They must be doing something right to be surviving and flourishing like they are.

[00:25:23] Or maybe I need to learn some new skills.

[00:25:25] And you said like some physical therapy owners have found new revenue, right?

[00:25:28] New ways.

[00:25:29] Like my husband has found other ways to bring in more revenue.

[00:25:33] And that is being able to think outside of the box to come up with new ideas.

[00:25:38] That is a sage power, a sage tool in that garage.

[00:25:43] And that's called innovate.

[00:25:45] It's being able to just be innovative and throw out tons of ideas and recognizing that your

[00:25:51] brain's going to try to judge those harshly.

[00:25:52] And it's okay.

[00:25:53] You can make it a game.

[00:25:54] How many ideas can I come up with?

[00:25:56] And then maybe one will actually move me to something.

[00:25:59] It's like being aware that your saboteur brain is going to judge and always show the

[00:26:05] negative first.

[00:26:07] But that doesn't mean just because it's showing you the negative first doesn't mean you don't

[00:26:11] have other options.

[00:26:12] You don't have to accept it.

[00:26:13] That's why I just, I really write like my goal is for people to be like, oh yeah, there's

[00:26:17] the negative first thought that always comes.

[00:26:18] But I have so many options in this other garage.

[00:26:21] I have curiosity.

[00:26:22] I have my values, remembering who I want to be, ways to come up with new ideas, like so

[00:26:29] many other options besides fear and judgment.

[00:26:31] I think Steve actually shared a story on the, one of his podcast episodes where he was worried

[00:26:39] about the clinic, like dissolving, going bankrupt.

[00:26:43] And you took a different tact.

[00:26:45] It wasn't asking the opposite.

[00:26:47] It was.

[00:26:48] So what if, what would happen then?

[00:26:51] Yeah.

[00:26:51] So worst case scenario.

[00:26:52] Yeah.

[00:26:53] The worst case scenario.

[00:26:54] Like what's the absolute worst case scenario that will happen?

[00:26:57] If that is true, what's the absolute worst case scenario?

[00:27:01] Because rarely do we, we think about the worst case scenario, but we don't look past it.

[00:27:07] We actually don't open that door and look at what's behind the door.

[00:27:11] Yeah.

[00:27:12] Look at it in its face.

[00:27:13] And what you are seeing when you open the door, is that truly scary?

[00:27:19] Is that earth shaking?

[00:27:21] Is it horrible?

[00:27:22] Is it exactly what you're imagining or is it, are your emotions telling you the same thing,

[00:27:27] right?

[00:27:28] When you actually see it at its face and that, that was a different tact.

[00:27:32] Is that another way to maybe access the sage or just tell your saboteur that you're a liar?

[00:27:37] Yeah.

[00:27:37] And it will see, this is very common for some people who have hypervigilant saboteur like me,

[00:27:43] who tends like that, whatever's behind the door is super scary.

[00:27:47] But like my heart, when I, when I go and open it, it might still be scary.

[00:27:54] It still might be a circumstance that I don't enjoy.

[00:27:57] But then I just say, what, like, how will I be able to handle it?

[00:28:01] What will I do?

[00:28:03] And I, and once I show myself, it might not be the funnest thing, but that's part of life.

[00:28:07] We all have circumstances that are not perfect.

[00:28:10] People get sick.

[00:28:12] People lose jobs.

[00:28:13] We have failures.

[00:28:14] But when you can go, what will I do?

[00:28:17] And what will be my game plan?

[00:28:19] And you're like, oh, wow.

[00:28:20] It's just so much, not as scary as I thought.

[00:28:22] And this is exactly what happened with the story.

[00:28:25] I think that my husband shared.

[00:28:26] And I remember this exact thing because we were in the kitchen and we had, and he was at that

[00:28:32] point where I'm like, I'm done avoiding.

[00:28:33] I'm looking, I'm going to look at this.

[00:28:35] I can't just keep every time I want to grow and I get to that place where I don't know,

[00:28:41] I just go back to treating.

[00:28:43] I'm going to go back to what I know.

[00:28:45] And I think that his hyperachiever played into that because again, there's this tangible

[00:28:50] thing that I can see that I'm doing that's adding value.

[00:28:53] So treating a patient, I can see the tangible evidence that this person feels better, makes

[00:29:00] my hyperachiever feel like I'm, my worth is still good.

[00:29:03] And so for him, it was like a voider hyperachiever.

[00:29:07] It's I want to grow my business, but then I see that there's these obstacles and I don't

[00:29:12] know quite how to navigate those obstacles.

[00:29:15] So he would just go back to comfort, which is what our survival brain is always trying

[00:29:19] to put us back into the comfortable place of just treating patients.

[00:29:22] But that makes you feel good in the minute, in that moment, because you see that patient

[00:29:26] getting better, but that's not growing your business.

[00:29:28] And so we, we were in the kitchen and we were talking about, we got to the place where these

[00:29:35] insurances do not reimburse, like to the point that this is just not okay.

[00:29:39] Like we have to take a stand just for physical therapy in general, not just that it's not

[00:29:45] paying us money, but like it's offensive.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:48] I have to give people context.

[00:29:50] I want to say, so people understand, I know your story because I was coaching him through

[00:29:53] it.

[00:29:53] I want to say the reimbursement rate was literally like $46 a visit horrific.

[00:29:59] And this was a large part of his patient population.

[00:30:01] It wasn't a small part.

[00:30:03] It was a decent size.

[00:30:05] Yeah.

[00:30:05] He had a lot of patients.

[00:30:06] Like it looks very successful when you're just like there in the office, lots of patients,

[00:30:10] but the reimbursement was offensive.

[00:30:13] And he was, he had some big fears about dropping.

[00:30:16] Big fears.

[00:30:17] Because if I take this insurance away, are we going to get any clients?

[00:30:20] You can just see what his brain was doing.

[00:30:22] So we get to this, we're having this conversation and he's just like, just what will we do?

[00:30:27] And I'm like, we both can work.

[00:30:29] So if like the business isn't going anywhere as it is happening with this insurance rate,

[00:30:35] we know that we need to make this move.

[00:30:37] We need to take this risk of dropping this insurance, but also just for our own values,

[00:30:43] to be honest with you, it felt anyway.

[00:30:45] But it's like, there's fear because again, like I could just keep treating and keep treating

[00:30:50] these people for $46.

[00:30:52] And then we just, I remember we were standing there.

[00:30:56] I'm like, what's the worst case scenario?

[00:30:57] And he said, a business doesn't make it when we drop these insurance.

[00:30:59] I'm like, okay.

[00:31:00] And what would we do?

[00:31:01] And we sat there and we discussed what we would do.

[00:31:03] So we don't have to live in this home.

[00:31:04] We could move to a smaller home.

[00:31:06] Our kids are all grown.

[00:31:07] We both can work.

[00:31:08] You still have a physical therapy license.

[00:31:10] It might not be our perfect scenario, but we will definitely survive.

[00:31:14] We'll definitely be able to figure this out.

[00:31:16] And when we saw that we were both on the same team and we're both willing to handle whatever,

[00:31:22] we were like, okay, it's not so scary anymore.

[00:31:24] We're doing this.

[00:31:25] It might be a blow to my ego that this one thing, and that might be part of my story.

[00:31:30] As I talk to people, I started a business and it failed.

[00:31:33] Okay.

[00:31:34] At least I made the decisions that I thought were right for it.

[00:31:37] And that doesn't have to define me, but are, am I okay with that?

[00:31:42] Will that be okay if I did have to go to work a nine to five again as a staff PT?

[00:31:48] Right.

[00:31:49] And, and that's the question that comes down to there.

[00:31:52] One of the more popular Ted talks by Tim Ferriss is called fear setting.

[00:31:57] And it was exactly this.

[00:31:59] And that is, as you're making a decision, he wanted to go to Europe.

[00:32:03] He was a business owner, wanted to go to Europe for a few months and have nothing to do with his

[00:32:06] business.

[00:32:06] And so he wrote down all of his fears that would keep him from doing that.

[00:32:10] What's going to happen to the business while I'm gone.

[00:32:13] And then the goals were like, okay, I just need to address that fear.

[00:32:17] And worst case scenario, it comes to pass.

[00:32:20] How are we going to address if that worst fear comes to pass and just put the plans out there

[00:32:25] in place.

[00:32:26] And lo and behold, most of the fears never came to fruition.

[00:32:29] That is how it works.

[00:32:31] And it's hard to explain, but when we were able to eliminate the fears, because we were

[00:32:37] okay with the, if worst case scenario happened and we have a game plan.

[00:32:41] So we eliminated the fear and you'd be so surprised.

[00:32:44] Once you eliminate the fear, you'll make it happen.

[00:32:47] You now have, once we got the saboteurs and like the fear under control, your sage has so

[00:32:53] many tools that you will make it happen.

[00:32:56] And, and this goes for any, anything, not just in business, right?

[00:33:00] I'm always dealing with like, once you take care of the fear, you'll be surprised how fast

[00:33:04] you will get accomplished what you want because everything is just more productive.

[00:33:08] And you're using your skills to the, to like a total different level, because once you take

[00:33:14] the fear and the way that it exhausts you and stresses you out, you're able to perform

[00:33:18] just so much better.

[00:33:20] Like you said, it brings tools of innovation.

[00:33:22] It brings tools of creativity to address the issue that you're actually talking about.

[00:33:28] Right?

[00:33:28] So once he got past that fear of dropping the insurance and finally did it, I can tell you,

[00:33:34] I was his coach at the time and his mindset and his vocabulary were totally different because

[00:33:41] he had made the decision.

[00:33:43] He'd send him the letter.

[00:33:43] I'm dropping this insurance.

[00:33:46] And he, his mindset after that was like, where are you this?

[00:33:50] Cause I knew this was a very fearful jump for him.

[00:33:54] He's like, you know what?

[00:33:55] I'm doing it and I'm going on faith.

[00:33:57] And if it doesn't work out, that's fine.

[00:33:59] I'll keep moving forward.

[00:34:01] But he had a plan in place behind that.

[00:34:04] It wasn't just stepping off the ledge.

[00:34:06] He had a plan.

[00:34:07] I'm going to do this kind of marketing.

[00:34:09] And these are my goals with that marketing strategy.

[00:34:11] And these are the number of people I need to hit.

[00:34:13] These are the financial projections that I have behind it.

[00:34:15] And so he had a plan and he moved forward.

[00:34:19] And like I said, I could still, the fear was still there.

[00:34:22] It was managed.

[00:34:23] And that plan that you're talking about that came after we were able to eliminate the fear

[00:34:29] and see that we will be okay.

[00:34:31] When that fear got put, taken care of, that's when that plan was like, and then I'll do this.

[00:34:38] And then I'll do this.

[00:34:38] And his brain just started coming up with all these ideas because he didn't have that fear

[00:34:43] holding him back anymore.

[00:34:44] Do you see him from your perspective as the spouse?

[00:34:48] Do you see him as a different leader and business owner today than he was three or four years ago?

[00:34:52] What's the difference?

[00:34:54] So I'm seeing a lot more.

[00:34:57] Okay.

[00:34:58] Number one, he doesn't avoid.

[00:34:59] He just dives right in.

[00:35:00] He had a challenging, something happened just with some employees.

[00:35:03] It was challenging.

[00:35:04] It made him a little uncomfortable.

[00:35:06] Like he doesn't like being rough or the bad guy.

[00:35:09] I want to be likable.

[00:35:10] That's a physical therapist.

[00:35:12] Yeah.

[00:35:12] It's a therapist thing.

[00:35:14] We want to be liked by everybody.

[00:35:15] We want to play the nice guy.

[00:35:17] So it's hard to confront and it's so hard to address, but I see what you're talking about.

[00:35:20] Yes.

[00:35:21] But he's found out that handling and having a hard conversation so that someone, so that people don't continue to be dragged down by this issue is at being a nice guy.

[00:35:30] And I think he looks at confronting things as being the nice guy.

[00:35:35] He's changed the definition of what a nice guy does.

[00:35:38] A nice guy doesn't ignore someone and invalidate their feelings.

[00:35:42] Right?

[00:35:42] Right.

[00:35:42] So he, he was just, he would come home and just tell me, yeah, so we all had a meeting and I'm like, he's just way more assertive, way more just taking care of things as they pop up.

[00:35:55] Just very decisive, very confident, very decisive.

[00:35:58] And just really like, he's always just goes what he's doing next, you know, creating his systems and just, it's just for me, it's just, I can just tell that he has more access to his sage.

[00:36:10] He knows how to get himself there.

[00:36:12] And it doesn't mean that his saboteurs don't pop up.

[00:36:14] They do.

[00:36:15] We're always getting triggered back to old habits, but he definitely knows how to get himself out.

[00:36:23] And you had to ask, how do we get to our sage more?

[00:36:27] How does he do that?

[00:36:28] Questioning our thoughts was the first one, but meditation is a big one.

[00:36:33] And I try to explain to people, it's not necessarily meditation spiritually sitting there for 10 minutes with your hands out.

[00:36:40] It's what I like about this positive intelligence program is it takes meditation and uses it more like brain exercises.

[00:36:49] It's not.

[00:36:49] It redirects the neuro, the neurons, the electrical synapses that are firing to a different part of the brain.

[00:36:56] Right?

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:56] Because the part of your brain where your sage is, is also the part of the brain that you have to use to focus on a sensation.

[00:37:04] So if you're really tasting your drink right now or whatever, you have to use that part of your brain.

[00:37:10] And so neuroscience has figured this out.

[00:37:14] It's not like it's this magic thing.

[00:37:16] When you meditate, you're just meditation requires that part of your brain.

[00:37:20] So you can meditate a little bit every day.

[00:37:23] You're into that brain where those tools are in that garage that are going to be easier to apply.

[00:37:29] And you're also interrupting whenever you're meditating and you're using that, it's generally the right side of your brain.

[00:37:35] But your sage brain, you're also shutting down your saboteurs.

[00:37:40] They literally can't talk to you.

[00:37:41] So I try to do every few hours, I'll do a two minute meditation.

[00:37:46] And what I've noticed over doing this for years is my saboteurs can't get momentum on me.

[00:37:54] I, it's just, I, it comes everybody's survival brain.

[00:37:58] You can't shut it down.

[00:37:59] You can't just not have one, but I'm, I keep power over it.

[00:38:04] I keep command of my brain by, by doing these exercises and they'll come in, they'll give me thoughts.

[00:38:10] I get negative thoughts just like everyone else, but they don't get really hard momentum on me because I'm interrupting and I'm shutting them down for two minutes every few hours.

[00:38:19] And so if I think I explained in that conference, if you were doing an MRI and we were looking at your brain on an MRI and you started meditating and you were coming up and you were shutting down, it would literally show blood flow move to your right brain.

[00:38:36] And so that is another way to get to your sage is to meditate or to focus on a sensation.

[00:38:44] A lot of people focus on their breath just for two minutes, just really focus on your breath going in and out.

[00:38:49] Or something that you're feeling with texture, just touching your mouse pad for two minutes and just really not having thoughts about it, just experiencing it.

[00:38:59] And sometimes I just label, I'll just go breath in, breath out so that my mind won't start thinking.

[00:39:05] Or some people like, yeah, like we did that.

[00:39:08] We did that exercise where you try to fill your fingerprint.

[00:39:10] You have to use your right brain to be able to feel the ridges on your fingers.

[00:39:14] So it's just really cool that there are these ways that we can access that part of our brain fast and simply.

[00:39:21] And it can make such a difference.

[00:39:23] It's the fact that it opens up and you, sometimes you fall into that sage, maybe when you're just exhausted from the fear or something like that.

[00:39:31] Sometimes if you're just thinking on things, all of a sudden your mind opens up and there's possibilities, right?

[00:39:39] Whereas before you think you're stuck in this situation and there's no way out.

[00:39:44] Now I have possibilities.

[00:39:46] And when, now that I see possibilities, wow, now I have many more options to choose from.

[00:39:51] It's so crazy.

[00:39:52] This is random, but my son struggles with anxiety.

[00:39:55] He's, he has, it's very black and white thinking.

[00:39:58] He has ADHD.

[00:39:59] And one day, one time we were going to Florida to go to me and him for his birthday.

[00:40:05] We're going to, I think Steve had a business thing.

[00:40:07] And so we went to universal and he was just having a bad day.

[00:40:12] And he was just, his brain just loves to show him the negatives.

[00:40:14] Like he has a very strong survival brain.

[00:40:15] I think it's ADHD.

[00:40:16] And sometimes that is the case is your survival brain is extra convincing.

[00:40:22] And he was just upset.

[00:40:23] Oh, we're on the plane.

[00:40:24] And I'm like, how are you so grumpy?

[00:40:26] We are on a plane to go to universal.

[00:40:29] What could go wrong?

[00:40:30] And he was just like, I just, I'm just so mad about this at school and this at school.

[00:40:34] And he's not one that wants to be coached by his mommy.

[00:40:37] My kids, like if I ever want to coach my kids, it has to be like around about way where they

[00:40:42] have no idea.

[00:40:43] So he was just sitting there on the plane.

[00:40:45] He was leaning forward.

[00:40:46] And I'm like, just started like scratch, like scratching his back.

[00:40:49] And I'm like, Hey, whatever I do with my finger, just make sure you follow where it

[00:40:54] goes.

[00:40:55] I don't know why he engaged in this.

[00:40:57] So I was just going, it's like really just making really fast movements.

[00:41:01] And he had, and I saw his head and like trying to keep, he didn't know this, but I was helping

[00:41:06] him do a meditation because I was making such fast movements with my finger.

[00:41:10] He had to keep up.

[00:41:11] And he also feeling that sensation on his back.

[00:41:13] And I did that for five minutes.

[00:41:15] And then I just stopped.

[00:41:16] And then he just was so calm.

[00:41:19] And he said, what rides are we going to do?

[00:41:22] It was so cool because it was like, he didn't know I knew.

[00:41:28] And it was just so cool to see it's real and it happens.

[00:41:33] And he has no idea.

[00:41:34] He just knows that he felt better and was able to get out of that brain and be able to

[00:41:38] start seeing, wait, what rides are we going to do?

[00:41:40] Are we going to the Harry Potter place?

[00:41:42] Are we going to get butterbeer?

[00:41:43] Which is like all the conversation changed.

[00:41:45] All the possibilities came forth.

[00:41:47] Yeah.

[00:41:47] So cool.

[00:41:48] If people wanted to reach out to you, if they had questions, are you on socials?

[00:41:53] Do you reach out and talk to people occasionally?

[00:41:56] Yeah.

[00:41:56] So I do have an Instagram.

[00:41:58] It's karenedwards.coaching.

[00:42:00] If you want to contact, you can DM me.

[00:42:02] I have a website, karenedwardscoaching.com.

[00:42:05] I do one-on-one coaching and I do group coaching.

[00:42:09] I love to take people through the whole program.

[00:42:12] In fact, most of my one-on-one clients, we first do this positive intelligence program.

[00:42:17] Because mindfulness, learning mindfulness, which is what basically the program, if we're going to

[00:42:22] just label it, it's a mindfulness program.

[00:42:24] It's teaching how to build a muscle in your brain so that you have more access to your higher brain.

[00:42:31] It's like a self-command muscle.

[00:42:33] And over time of using your right brain, your sage, it becomes more natural to use that part of your brain.

[00:42:40] It doesn't take as much work to get to that garage eventually.

[00:42:43] Most of my clients, we do the program for the first six weeks.

[00:42:46] It's also coaching.

[00:42:48] But it, and I think this is why Steve was open and coachable is because he knew his saboteurs

[00:42:58] by the time that he went to you.

[00:43:01] And so it was, you had to do less convincing of your habits or sabotaging you.

[00:43:06] So if you're able to understand your brain and the habits that you have, coaching is way more effective.

[00:43:42] Right.

[00:43:44] So if you understand your employees, there's, there's a big benefit to doing it as a staff,

[00:43:48] but you'd have to make sure they want to, because you do get a little vulnerable, but you have to just,

[00:43:52] like, whenever I do a group, we make sure that this is confidential.

[00:43:56] Everything that's said in the group is confidential.

[00:43:58] We don't share outside of the group what anyone has shared.

[00:44:02] But it, it's helped.

[00:44:04] It helped my husband understand his employees better.

[00:44:07] So, oh, she struggles with pleasing.

[00:44:09] That is so good to know.

[00:44:11] Or this person is restless when they're doing something that's not so enjoyable.

[00:44:17] Their brain's going to try to talk him in to go do something that's feels better.

[00:44:21] It helps, just in general, it helps you understand others better.

[00:44:25] It helps you empathize.

[00:44:26] We all have saboteurs.

[00:44:27] And if this person isn't just a lazy person or a toxic person, this, once you understand

[00:44:34] they have a saboteur that's trying to help them feel safe, you start being a lot more understanding

[00:44:40] and tolerant and also find ways to better communicate maybe with that person.

[00:44:45] Lots of benefits as far as I've had families do it together.

[00:44:49] Oh, how cool.

[00:44:49] Yeah.

[00:44:51] Yeah.

[00:44:51] So just like people who want to just understand their family better.

[00:44:54] And so cool.

[00:44:55] Thank you so much for taking some time to explain it to us, help us understand ourselves a little

[00:44:59] bit better, our brains and how they work.

[00:45:01] Like I said, I witnessed this transformation in your husband and it was great for him, especially

[00:45:07] as a leader, as a business owner.

[00:45:09] And I'm sure it's helped relationships along the way as well.

[00:45:12] So is there anything else you want to say before we wrap up?

[00:45:15] One thing I just want to point out is after coaching and like all the work you've done with

[00:45:20] my husband and him being able to be more confident, be more decisive, being able to have hard

[00:45:26] conversations.

[00:45:26] The other thing that I'm seeing is he's able to enjoy his practice so much more.

[00:45:32] He's actually enjoying it, even though it does have challenges, even things pop up every

[00:45:36] day.

[00:45:36] There's a problem, but he's enjoying it.

[00:45:38] And that's the whole point.

[00:45:40] That's why we all wanted to do it.

[00:45:41] We wanted to be able to enjoy what we do for a living and being in his sage more helps

[00:45:45] him just enjoy it on a daily basis with the challenges included so much more rewarding.

[00:45:51] Yeah.

[00:45:51] Oh yeah.

[00:45:51] It's more than just overcoming.

[00:45:53] Now he can thrive.

[00:45:55] Yeah.

[00:45:55] And some of the circumstances have not changed, right?

[00:45:57] Same circumstances.

[00:45:59] Thinking has, and that's what helps us enjoy things.

[00:46:02] We joy does not come from our circumstances.

[00:46:04] It comes from what we make them mean and the way we think.

[00:46:08] And it's not, we don't need everything to be perfect all the time to be able to enjoy

[00:46:12] what we do.

[00:46:12] Great insight.

[00:46:13] Thank you so much for sharing.

[00:46:14] I really appreciate it.

[00:46:15] Thank you.

[00:46:18] Thanks for joining us today in the Physical Therapy Owners Club, the resource for stability

[00:46:23] and freedom in your PT practice.

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