$80K Plus Benefits Isn't Cutting It Anymore: Rethinking Bonuses and Compensation

[00:00:02] Welcome to the Private Practice Owners Club. Your hosts and coaches, Nathan Shields, scaled his practice and exited for millions, while Adam Robin went from working 60 hours a week in one clinic to scaling to multiple clinics while working less than four hours per week remotely. This podcast is meant to share with you exactly how they did it and how you can build a business that supports the lifestyle that you truly desire. And don't forget to

[00:00:27] join the Private Practice Owners Club community on Facebook, where we are obsessed with providing even more resources that help owners just like you win the game of private practice. Hey, it's Nathan. Quick heads up for all the private practice owners who are listening. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you know that it took me at least 10

[00:00:53] years of grinding in my own clinics before I finally figured out how to scale and sell my business. I had four practices for seven figures and about three times the national average. The biggest shift wasn't some secret marketing hack. It was how I thought about profit systems and actually my role as the owner. That's exactly what we're going to be working on together with you at the High Performance Practice Conference this fall in San Antonio, Texas. From October 15th

[00:01:22] through 17th, Adam Robin and I are hosting a three-day hands-on event for PT, OT, speech, mental health, peds, pelvic floor, and medical practice owners who want to build clinics that are profitable, scalable, and best of all, don't depend on them 24-7. We'll dig into simple profit and KPI frameworks, real leadership and culture work, and practical systems you can take home and plug in

[00:01:49] with your team. So if you're doing roughly six to seven low figures a year and you want your clinic to feel more like a real business and less like a job slash cage, I'd love to see you there. Frankly, I'd love to see you bring your leadership teams as well because we will have breakout sessions for them too. You can get all the details and grab your seat at the link in the show notes. All right, let's get

[00:02:11] into today's episode. Recording progress. Let's go. Yeah, talking about bonus and incentive programs. And Adam and I were talking about this before we pushed record here and it's not a strength of either of ours. I think both of us have some bonus and incentive programs that we've used in the past. But what we'll say is there's, there are a lot of ways to bonus, right? There's a thousand ways

[00:02:38] to do it. All of them could work. All of it just depends on tracking your metrics and seeing if it's creating the response that you want, right? And so since we're being a little bit honest, we're not the best when it comes to bonus and incentive programs, but we can talk about them. We've used some in the past. And if you want to learn more from other people about what they're doing for bonus and incentive programs, then come to our event, right? Come to our high performance practice conference,

[00:03:06] October 15th through 17th in San Antonio, go to PPOClubevents.com in order to register and bring your leadership team with you. So you guys can divide and conquer as we're doing breakout sessions. We won't have just one main stage like we've done in previous years. We're going to have multiple presentations going on at the same time. So you'll want to bring other people to join you so you can make sure you get the most value out of it and also help your leadership teams,

[00:03:35] administrative teams, give you the support that you need so they can see what you're actually, learn what you're learning, see what you're learning about and what you want to implement and have opportunities to discuss how you want to improve your businesses. Most importantly, you get to talk about or talk with other owners who are going through some of the same issues that you're going through and see how they've overcome those things. So the networking aspect is one of the most important ones. But as we're talking about bonus and incentive programs today,

[00:04:04] I think the overarching thing is we're just looking for ways to incentivize people to be productive more than just clocking in, clocking out, seeing the number of patients that we're expecting you to see and go from there, but also giving them some excitement, fulfillment, some kind of target to reach for, to shoot for. So that's the overarching aspect. And the other thing I would say is it

[00:04:32] doesn't always have to be financial, right? So when we're looking at bonus and incentive programs, I remember, yeah, we had some bonus programs for our providers if they hit certain metrics, but there were also goals that we had as a team. Say, for example, we hit a certain number of visits in a certain month and I left it up to the team to decide, okay, if we hit a certain number of visits in a given month, what do you guys want? Do you want a TV in another room? Do you want a bigger TV?

[00:05:01] Do you want snacks in the fridge? Do you want lunch at XYZ? Do you want, you name it, certain drinks, protein drinks, whatever. So you see how we can make up anything. And if you talk to one of our coaching clients, one of her bigger incentivizations was, or incentives was everyone gets HOKAs. That's what the team decided. Hey, if we hit this goal for the quarter, we want HOKAs. And so that

[00:05:30] was their goal and they met it, right? And that was a team incentive. So I think the first thing I would say is that it doesn't have to be just an individual goal and incentive program. These could be things that you're also doing as a group and as a team. Have you done anything like that? Have you done any group or clinic specific incentives? Yeah, we've done some stuff and we've had success with some and not so much with others. I'm glad you said that because I think it's important for people to say,

[00:06:00] or people to know that we've tried stuff and sometimes it doesn't work. Yeah. We're not like, we're not like, that's okay. Not great at everything. You know what I mean? Like we're great at a lot of things, Adam, but just not everything. I'm great at like one thing. And especially my mom, she thinks I'm great at everything. I can tell you, I do believe in a few basic principles that I think are worth mentioning.

[00:06:26] And I think that number one, at the end of the day, like why does the bonus exist? I think maybe that's a good place to start. And I think that you kind of alluded to it, which is we're trying to create, we're trying to align incentives with the human behavior that we're after, right? The one that is beneficial to our patients and our customers and also to the business. If we can align incentives,

[00:06:54] then that will create motivation and behavior change that will create a shared win, right? Across the board. Okay. So in order to create behavior change, there's a, there's a few layers to that, but we want to create the intrinsic motivation, right? So I think that if we're going to build a bonus program, I think it's really important to first, make sure that you have a strong culture,

[00:07:23] a strong mission, vision values that are foundational elements of intrinsic motivation within your company. I think that's more important than like trying to hang a carrot, hang an extra few dollars in front of people who aren't fully bought into the mission, vision values, right? If they're not already bought into the purpose and the values of the organization,

[00:07:48] these incentives, they're not going to create, they'll probably be temporary changes just to get the carrot lasting. Right. So money is a tool, but it's not, you can't just hang your hat on that. Like it's going to solve all your problems, right? And not everyone's incentivized. Correct. And then there's also the extrinsic motivation. Like you said, like it could be financial, it could be some type of reward that rewards the behavior. Yeah. So that's number one.

[00:08:18] I think number two is you have to make sure if you're going to create a bonus program, that's awesome. But also you got to know your numbers. You got to know your metrics. That's true. That's basic. Yeah. Otherwise it's going to end up costing you more money, right? So there's a foundational element of knowing your numbers, knowing your breakeven, what's your average reimbursement per visit? What are your productivity standards? Right. Having those things really

[00:08:45] buttoned up is a prerequisite to even considering a bonus program. So you have to have strong culture, strong metrics. Those are two things. Sure. Otherwise don't talk to me about bonuses, right? Number three is, and you actually taught me this, Nathan, sometimes we as therapists, as PTs or you know, rehab professionals, we tend to have like self-sabotaging behavior. We want to just give,

[00:09:14] we want to give, give, give, give, give, give. If I just give more, they'll do more. Or maybe they'll like me and maybe they'll care a lot. And I get it. Like I'm with you. That's an expensive behavior though. But when you have your numbers dialed in, what you want to really try to recognize is that bonuses are only meant for that in which is exchanged in abundance to the minimum expectation, right? So establishing that floor first, and just because they barely peeked their

[00:09:43] head over the floor, doesn't mean they're in bonus territory yet. Right. You want to create a 10% buffer for a rainy day called savings for profit. Right. Right. It's like you got to have that buffer built in before the bonus built kicks in. Right. So only the abundance of exchange becomes bonusable territory. So I think those are three principles that are worth considering. I'm glad that you

[00:10:12] broke them down like that. Cause you're absolutely right. It's absolutely necessary that we have those things in place before we really even consider what kind of bonus structures we would want to offer. Right. So I talked a little bit about the team incentives that we could offer. I think those are pretty straightforward. They give us some focus. They give us some energy. If we do it right,

[00:10:38] say for example, arrival rate is 75%. Horrific. Right. You want to get it to 90%. So in that situation, maybe the initial bonuses come as we move up the ladder. And I'm just speaking off the cuff. So don't take this as the gospel truth, but maybe there are small bonuses along the way until we get to

[00:11:02] 90% or above arrival rate. And at some point there, whatever we did to get to 90% arrival rate now needs to be the new expectation going forward. Right. We're not going to bonus you now that you stayed at 90% forever. Right. If you stay above 90%, you get to keep your job. But if you get above 95%, that's when a bonus can kick in and maybe you spike occasionally and get

[00:11:30] above 93, 95%. We can get bonuses on that. Right. And so I think that's one way to look at it. And when we're looking at group incentives, but it's the same case for individual incentives. If I will say when it comes to provider incentives or even front desk incentives, my number one rule personally is to make the bonus as simple as possible so they can calculate it anytime and how it's going to impact

[00:11:58] them. If there is some formula that they have to navigate, put down on paper, use AI to help them figure it out. Once they put in the data to pop out an answer, that's too complicated. And I think it loses its luster a little bit or its impact and its power. So the number one rule that I have is it's going to be something that is pretty simple. So, and that goes back to rule number two for you,

[00:12:24] which is know your metrics. So when we did it back in the day, we recognized that every provider had to hit a certain number of visits per week. So we went off of visits per week. You can go off of say utilization, I think would be a totally proper KPI to go off of if you want to. Some people go off of number of build units per week. Totally fine. I'm cool with that as well. And if they get above a certain

[00:12:52] number of build units, then they get bonus. So it's all the same thing, but pick your KPI and go with it. But what we found and what everyone needs to find, no matter the KPI is, what is the baseline expectation? What is the, and we've done episodes on this before. What is the break even? What do they need to generate? What do they need to produce in an order to not only cover

[00:13:16] their expenses, but cover more than their expenses? Cause we're going to build in 10% profit on their expenses, right? Because there are fluctuations in our businesses. So what they produce plus 10%, we agreed that it was an X number of visits that they needed to see per week. And so that was just baseline expectation. If you fell below that, we had conversations about what you needed to do in order to get above it. And if you consistently fell below that you were invited to

[00:13:46] leave. And then we would did exactly what you did, which is you get 10% above that. Now you're getting, I think we did $50 per visit or I don't know, something like that. We gave them X number of dollars for the visits above that, not for the ones that got up to that, but for the visits above that to recognize their work that they took on. Maybe they saw a few stayed a couple extra hours. Maybe they

[00:14:14] filled in and did covered vacation times for people. And we wanted to recognize that they worked harder as long as they hit certain metrics. The second part of it was you can't just do more and sacrifice elsewhere in order to hit that metric. So what do I mean by that? Well, our KPI was visits. That meant they needed to hit a certain number of skilled units per visit in order to get that bonus

[00:14:43] as well. So you couldn't see the number of required visits and only build two units at a time. Now we're shooting ourselves on the feet. We're not, we're not making any money at all. You had to hit at least that four skilled unit metric per visit. So those were qualifiers that we had in there. And by the way, if we went off of visits, we counted initially vowels as 1.5, initially vowels as two, but we counted initially vowels as 1.5. They hit that metric. They hit the

[00:15:12] number of skilled units per visit and we were good to go, right? They got their bonus. It got paid out bi-weekly. And here's the other thing that we decided to do. Like we want to give this bonus program, but we don't want to do a lot of work to get it. And so here's the spreadsheet. You fill in your numbers and, and calculate what your bonus should be. You turn it into your clinic director. They verify it, sign off on it, turn it into payroll in time. If you want that bonus at that,

[00:15:42] for that payroll date. And the bonus was done. I never saw it. It was between them and the clinic director. And occasionally we'd check in on it, do an audit, but they figured it out. It was no more work on my end. So that's how we did it. I don't know if that, if you have questions or anything to add to that. No, it sounds good. I mean, I think that's good as well. I think getting your team to

[00:16:04] hit those minimum baseline expectations is the heart is a job in itself. If you're trying to roll out a bonus program just to get them to hit expectation, that's a good sign that you're probably, it's not going to work. Right? So something's off, something's off either. There's a, there's a scheduling issue at the front desk. It could be a systems issue. It could be a cultural issue. Maybe you didn't do the work ahead of time to match up their salary with what they needed to cover and

[00:16:33] visit. Yeah. Right. So you got to get that model, right. You know, you got to get that foundational piece. Right. And that can be a heavy lift. That could be a really heavy lift. Well, it takes some work. And especially if you're not a numbers person, I think you're doing yourself a disservice. If you're not leveraging, say like a bookkeeper or a CPA, reach out to forums like ours on the Facebook group, right. To see what other people are doing. There are ways to do it out

[00:17:01] there. I'm sure there are plenty of ways that people share their metrics or share their spreadsheets and whatnot. And I, our bonus system, this is going on 10, almost 10 years now. So you can't reach out to me personally. Otherwise I would be happy to share that spreadsheet, but, but it was rather simple. Right. And you just have to make sure that it goes back to knowing the metrics. You got to make sure that whatever they're doing is above and beyond the expectation to just make a margin of profit

[00:17:30] that you expect. So if you're having to incentivize them to see 40 visits a week and you're paying them $120,000 a year, going back to your example, like there's something fundamentally wrong at that point that it's going to be really hard. Yeah. It's like the puzzle's not going to work there, right? Like, it's like, we're kind of piecing things together with duct tape and it might get you through a season, but it's not going to be a long-term solution for you, you know? And that's coming from somebody

[00:18:00] who's tried that before, you know, and that's probably a big reason why some of our stuff has failed. You got to get that right first. I know there are some people, so I won't say these are the only ways to do bonus programs. There are some people who will do some sort of profit sharing, right? That usually comes about on a quarterly basis. And so people might know that they have a certain

[00:18:24] percentage of whatever they produce. That's above a minimum expectation that is shared. So you get above a certain point, then the owners will share 10, 15% of what you generate your revenue with you in a quarterly check. That's another option. There's a hundred ways to do it and none of them are wrong. You just want to make sure it gets you the behavior that you want. Yeah. You have to understand kind of

[00:18:51] the type of team that you have as well. You know, another thing that I've seen people do, and you probably where I'm going with this, but for the people who kind of nailed this down, what they, at least the way that I've seen it or I've described it is they're shifting a little bit more of the risk, if you will, over to the employee. And so they'll, they'll maybe pay a smaller base pay. Like maybe you don't get a $90,000 per year salary where it's like, Hey, if somebody shows up or not,

[00:19:21] I'm still going to get paid 90 K. I've got a level of comfort. There's like not as much urgency there, but if I say, well, Hey, why don't we shift that down to let's say 70 or even 65 thousand a year. Right. Or even less and say, Hey, like, okay, that's going to cover your first 20 visits a week or 30 visits a week now. And then everything after that, you can get paid by the visit. Right. Or we could split it or however you want to do it.

[00:19:48] Right. Or some kind of profit share or revenue share. Yeah. And so I think there's a trade-off there's pros and cons there. You don't have to do it that way. Right. It's not like for the right person. Like, let's say you have a therapist who's in your practice, who's got an entrepreneurial spirit. They want to earn their money, their money motivated, which is not everyone, but there are some people, right. That might be like perfect, right. For them. And they're like, man, let's get paid. Right. I want to try to add this value.

[00:20:15] And they're willing to absorb that risk. And they're willing to bet on themselves a little more for a higher earning potential. Right. Right. So with that shift in risk, what's the second I mean for you? Well, you don't have to track production on this person as much, right? Like you don't have to be harp on them as much. There's lower administrative burden or leadership capital. That's going to have to be deployed on this person.

[00:20:39] It's almost accountable independent contractor feel, right? It's an independent contractor feel. And so with that, with that shift in risk, you would want to give them a bigger upside, right? A bigger upside potential. And so maybe their cap is not 90 K at that time. Maybe it's like a hundred. Yeah. But whenever the clinic has to shut down for a snow day, they're not getting paid. Right.

[00:21:04] So they're absorbing some of that risk as well. And so I've seen that work to different levels of that. And so I think the main principle there is at least the one that I've tried to wrap my head around is the more risk you shift over to the employee, the bigger, the upside, the more pressure they're going to feel and the bigger, the upside that they should be able to achieve. Yeah. And so

[00:21:34] I shared those episodes via email, go back to like, say it was like 2021, 2022. I talked to Jason Wombold of Onus One and they've since been acquired by prompt. So if you're a prompt user, you can take the talk to Jason and see what they have to offer. But Ryan did it on his own. And he, again, he just went back to doing some metrics. Like what if I gave these guys a $40,000 base salary and then I pay

[00:22:01] them, I'm throwing numbers out there, 35, he did the metrics. So that worked out. I pay them $35 a visit above their 20th visit, like you said, right. And their earning potential is unlimited. Oh, you want to work Saturdays? If that works for, if we find the front desk people, oh no, I'll cover the front desk. Just let me work Saturdays. Go to it, dude. And, and if I recall, don't hold me to it, but Ryan takes paid time off off the table. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. So if more risk,

[00:22:31] more risk, more risk, but what do they end up doing? They end up stacking their schedule the week before and the week after they can take a day off to go to the doctor, go to the dentist, spend time with their kids. And they'll stack the day before and the day after, you know, to make up for that because they know that if they're not working, they're not earning. Whereas in the typical salary situation, if they're not working, they're still earning

[00:22:58] same thing. So they're almost disincentivized. They're not incentivized to see as many people as possible. So that's another way of considering, is it a bonus? It's just an alternative compensation model. Yeah. That can allow people to make more money. And I appreciate that you said it doesn't work for everybody, but what my friend did was he did the pro formas. He did the extrapolations

[00:23:27] and said, if I give you this base salary and I give you this dollar amount per visit, you would make, and this is all okay with him. He still generate the margins that he wants to see. He worked that all out and showed them like, instead of making $80,000 on this alternative compensation model, you would have made $87,000 last year. Right. And I'm cool with either one.

[00:23:52] If you want to stay at 80, fine, but these are my minimum expectations for you. If you want to go to 87 or if you want to earn more, just put in a little bit more effort, which means if you put in a little bit more effort, maybe you make 90, $92,000 this next year. This is an opportunity for you. That is a way to also incentivize with different compensation models. Yeah. I guess you could also kind of get really, if you want to get really creative, it might go against your principle of simplicity.

[00:24:21] I tend to be somebody that overcomplicates things. So I know what you're saying about like, if you have to felt formulaic and all that, like it could, it could backfire on you. But even if you created a thing where it was like, Hey, you've got a small base. And then maybe everything after that number of 30, let's say 30 visits a week, let's say visit 30 through 60 paid at $35 an hour. Right. But anything over 60 might pay $50 per visit or something like that.

[00:24:50] Right. So they're even more incentivized to be more productive. Right. Yeah. If you're going to start doing some of these things, I would again, reiterate that you might just want to bring in some, a financial person to help you out, a bookkeeper, CPA, someone who knows numbers and how to project, extrapolate how these numbers are going to affect you, you and your business and the team member

[00:25:15] that you're talking about. Now, have you done any front desk bonus programs? I think that those are actually, yes. And my experience has been, those are way easier. Like we have in a front desk team. That's just like they're killers. I mean, they're just like so good and they're very driven by the numbers. And if you put on there, like, Hey,

[00:25:41] so we did one where it was, we created a productivity. It was a formula. It was a formula, but I think I went up to the front desk and I said, Hey, there are two people that I trusted. And I said, Hey, if we were to hire like a rockstar front desk person and they were just like everything that they needed to be and they had the skills, how many visits a week could they independently manage in this front desk?

[00:26:09] And they were like one 40 or something like that. You know, so I don't remember exactly what it was. Yeah. One 40 full-time 140 visits a week. Yeah. Yeah. Anything beyond that, you're going to need a VA or you're going to need another. Right. And I was like, okay, great. I had 10%. Anything above that, we're going to start a bonus program. Right. So our bonus started at like one 50, anything above one 50 per FTE, we created a pot of money for that front desk to be

[00:26:37] distributed down. Yeah. And that became very motivating for them. Cool. Very, very motivating for them. Yeah. If we did front desk bonus programs, it was usually tied to arrival rate. Unfortunately, that can get manipulated different ways. Like if they just tend to delete someone off the schedule, then it, then it doesn't count as a negative against their arrival rate, that kind of stuff. So that was, it worked, but there was a way to manipulate it. Unfortunately,

[00:27:08] it would be a lot easier to track over the counter collections rate and bonus them. That's gotta be. So there's another guy that I know that does, he does one where he says it was something very simple. It was like, anytime you collect an over the counter collection payment, you get five bucks, whatever, whatever it is. If it's 10 bucks and because he kind of knew his average over the counter collection, like he kind of had it and he was like, you get five bucks every time.

[00:27:33] And that works for him. Awesome. And he's got like 30 clinics. So like, he knows what he's doing. I guess I would kind of hesitate on that particular metric because my expectation is you're going to be collecting 99% of your over the counter collections every day anyways. So there's not a lot of wiggle room to bonus off of that. Right. But if one of their key metrics is total visits per

[00:27:59] week, like based on our number of providers, we need to be, and one of their key jobs is fill the schedule. Then that's totally in play. Like if we're supposed, if we can see, if we have the capacity to see 150, that's if everyone's running at a hundred percent utilization rate, right? Maybe the baseline expectation is 80% of that, but if you hit 90% of that, right now we can talk about

[00:28:28] bonuses and maybe it's just a flat a hundred bucks. Maybe sometimes it's a little bit easier to incentivize them. Yeah. We had a 50, a hundred and 150, three different tiers, right? Based off of figures. Yeah. So if you were 10% above expectation, you got 50 bucks. If you were, I think it was maybe 15% above it, you know? Yeah. So that's how we did that. One other thing that I want to speak to,

[00:28:54] which I think is important is I feel like, I mean, we've both, we've had conversations about the need. It's not necessarily a need. It's the necessity of, which is basically the same thing of the way that private practice works is going to have to change, right? It's going to have to change.

[00:29:16] And the way that we compensate our team is a part of that. And so I think that it may not be today, but within the next couple of years, especially as it's becoming more and more challenging to attract clinicians to your practice with like $80,000 plus benefits, like that ain't cutting it no more. Right. So like we have to do a few things. We have to, number one, we have to create

[00:29:46] compensation structures that allow people to earn more. And we have to, in order to support that, we have to create revenue streams inside the practice that can support that. And we have to have programs that train our providers on how to leverage those revenue, how to actually get the most, right? So we have to generate revenue, how to teach them how to sell. We've got to teach them

[00:30:11] how to sell a plan of care, how to teach them how to bill. We have to train them on how to be good at their jobs so that they can earn more. We've got to help them earn more. Right. Right. So that's kind of where you want to, in my opinion, that's what I'm focused on in my practice. I'm like, how can I help my providers earn more? What do I need to teach them? And so think about that as you go. Well, it goes back to what we were talking about yesterday on the podcast episode that recorded is how can I generate more revenue in my clinic? If we can generate more revenue

[00:30:40] on the whole, not just by seeing more patients, that's not what I'm saying. If we can generate more revenue per visit, then these bonus opportunities are significantly greater. There are many more opportunities to earn more, do more and become more that just opens up the opportunities. So it kind of goes back to what we were saying yesterday. A lot of doors open up,

[00:31:04] these doors open up and the way we can incentivize people is when we can figure out as owners how to generate more revenue per visit. Yeah. I would say that's probably the most important thing that we want people to walk away with at the conference in San Antonio this year, right? Like you have two options. I had this conversation with her, with my team this week. You have two options. And actually

[00:31:31] you sent me a really cool video last night that highlighted this. You can keep playing this game of keep taking all the insurances and let me try to cost and raise production. And you can keep playing that game. There's nothing wrong with that, but you will hire less and less therapists every year over the next five to 10 years until you were the only one left. And you are running around by yourself,

[00:31:56] with a bunch of techs in a building full of patients. I've seen it happen. It will happen. It's going to happen. Or you can decide I need to shift. I need to learn some different skills. I need to learn how to market and sell and create more revenue streams and build a landing page and sell high ticket, like sell cash pay services. It's going to be vital for your team, for your company. So I think, uh, I think you should consider coming to the conference and not saying,

[00:32:25] we'll talk about it. Definitely. So come to the conference, PPO club events.com, the high performance practice conference. Love to see you guys there. We'll have some awesome speakers, the great discounts for, I said, bring your team leaders. There is a $100 off discount. If you bring your team members, there is a spousal discount. So after you personally register, you'll get an email with other discounts to register the other people. So make sure you look

[00:32:50] out for that, but join us October 15th or 17th in San Antonio, PPO club events.com. Good talk today, man. For a couple of guys that don't know much about bonus and incentives program, we spend a lot of time on it. We're, we're learning, man. We're on the journey of learning. We have something to share at least, right? That's right. All right. Sounds good. We'll talk to you later, man. All right, brother. Peace out.

[00:33:16] Thanks for listening to the private practice owners club. If you enjoyed this episode, would you mind doing us a huge favor and leaving a review? This helps us get the podcast out to more clinic owners to help them create greater freedom and profits so they can own their future and visit our website, ppoclub.com to find more resources and connect with us.