Today on Hands On, Hands Off, host Moyo Tillery sits down with Dr. Myra Meekins—PT, educator, and curriculum designer—to rethink how we teach and learn OMPT. From “practice makes perfect” to practice with purpose, Myra connects classic motor-learning models to the OPTIMAL theory (expectancies, autonomy, external focus), and shows why you must address the psychosocial to change the psychomotor.
We get concrete about designing sticky learning experiences for DPT students, residents, and fellows; building safe, high-expectation lab cultures; and using feedback, simulations, and competency-based education to translate knowledge to performance. Myra also shares her path from MTI fellowship and WashU’s Movement System Impairments work to leading curriculum development for a new DPT program and co-investigating a $1.6M grant bringing PT simulation into high schools.
You’ll learn
- Why clear expectations + psychological safety accelerates skill acquisition
- How to scaffold from competence → refinement → mastery across DPT, residency, and fellowship
- Practical ways to make learning “stick” for a class of 100 (and a class of 10)
- Using low-stakes, frequent formative assessment to steer teaching in real time
- Designing integrated, case-based curricula (and avoiding silo traps)
- What competency-based education and entrustable professional activities (EPAs) look like in PT
- Movement as the organizing principle: applying Movement System Impairments to guide exam & intervention
- Why educators must adapt to the learner in front of them, not the one they used to be
00:00:03 --> 00:00:07 All right, welcome to Hands On, Hands Off,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:09 where we explore the minds
00:00:09 --> 00:00:10 shaping the future of
00:00:10 --> 00:00:12 manual therapy and rehab.
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 I'm your host today, Moyo Tillery,
00:00:14 --> 00:00:15 and we're thrilled to
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 welcome Dr. Myra Meekins,
00:00:17 --> 00:00:19 a physical therapist, educator,
00:00:19 --> 00:00:20 and thought leader in
00:00:20 --> 00:00:22 orthopedic manual physical therapy.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:24 Dr. Meekins has been at the
00:00:25 --> 00:00:26 forefront of integrating
00:00:27 --> 00:00:28 motor learning and behavior
00:00:28 --> 00:00:30 change principles into clinical education,
00:00:31 --> 00:00:33 challenging the old adage
00:00:33 --> 00:00:35 that practice makes perfect.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:37 So today we'll dive into how
00:00:37 --> 00:00:39 clinicians can move beyond
00:00:39 --> 00:00:41 repetition and into purposeful,
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 transformative learning.
00:00:43 --> 00:00:44 So let's get started.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46 Dr. Meekins, welcome.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:47 To kick things off,
00:00:47 --> 00:00:48 can you share a bit about
00:00:48 --> 00:00:49 your journey into physical
00:00:49 --> 00:00:50 therapy and orthopedic
00:00:50 --> 00:00:51 manual physical therapy?
00:00:52 --> 00:00:53 Sure.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:54 Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:56 --> 00:00:58 So I began my physical
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 therapy career in Nashville, Tennessee.
00:01:01 --> 00:01:03 I graduated with a
00:01:03 --> 00:01:04 bachelor's in physical
00:01:04 --> 00:01:06 therapy from Tennessee State University.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 From there, I went back home to Memphis,
00:01:10 --> 00:01:12 Tennessee, where I
00:01:13 --> 00:01:14 worked hospital-based.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:15 So that was my first job,
00:01:15 --> 00:01:17 a geriatric hospital where
00:01:17 --> 00:01:18 I had the opportunity to
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 rotate through acute care,
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 skilled nursing, rehab,
00:01:21 --> 00:01:23 and outpatient to get a
00:01:23 --> 00:01:25 variety of settings.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:27 But I always knew that
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 outpatient was where I wanted to
00:01:30 --> 00:01:32 end up being my primary home.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:34 So after a couple of years,
00:01:34 --> 00:01:35 I transitioned to a
00:01:35 --> 00:01:38 different hospital where I
00:01:38 --> 00:01:40 was primarily hospital based outpatient.
00:01:40 --> 00:01:42 So if you've worked in that setting,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:42 you know,
00:01:42 --> 00:01:46 you can get you can get a ACL injury,
00:01:46 --> 00:01:47 you can get a stroke,
00:01:47 --> 00:01:48 you can get an amputee,
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 you can get a COPD pulmonary rehab.
00:01:52 --> 00:01:54 So you get really good at
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 seeing function and what's
00:02:00 --> 00:02:03 the main thing that needs
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 to get this person to meet
00:02:05 --> 00:02:07 their goals versus getting
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 too caught in the weeds.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 So did that for about four or five years.
00:02:11 --> 00:02:12 From there,
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 I eventually started working in
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 occupational rehabilitation.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:19 for about seven years.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:21 And so during that time is
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 when I had the opportunity
00:02:22 --> 00:02:23 to complete a manual
00:02:23 --> 00:02:24 therapy certification and
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 fellowship through Manual
00:02:27 --> 00:02:28 Therapy Institute.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:30 I did their Detroit program
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33 and did my fellowship hours in Austin,
00:02:33 --> 00:02:35 Texas with Peter Kroon.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:37 Also during that time,
00:02:37 --> 00:02:38 I had the opportunity to
00:02:39 --> 00:02:40 become board certified in
00:02:41 --> 00:02:42 orthopedic physical therapy.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 I caught that learning buzz
00:02:45 --> 00:02:46 and went back and got my
00:02:46 --> 00:02:48 transitional doctorate of
00:02:48 --> 00:02:50 physical therapy from Regis University.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:53 And then eventually I
00:02:54 --> 00:02:55 learned a lot about
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 movement diagnosis and
00:02:58 --> 00:02:59 movement system impairments
00:02:59 --> 00:03:00 during my manual therapy
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 fellowship and a little bit
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 about Washington University
00:03:06 --> 00:03:07 and Shirley Sarman.
00:03:08 --> 00:03:08 And so I took some
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 coursework through the APTA
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 and learned they had a fellowship there.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:15 I applied and was able to do
00:03:15 --> 00:03:17 a one-year fellowship at
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 Washington University
00:03:19 --> 00:03:20 School of Medicine in St.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:22 Louis learning movement
00:03:22 --> 00:03:23 system impairments.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:26 From there, I transitioned to teaching,
00:03:26 --> 00:03:28 first at Arkansas State
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 University for almost five years.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:34 The past ten years,
00:03:34 --> 00:03:35 I was at University of
00:03:35 --> 00:03:36 Tennessee Health Science
00:03:36 --> 00:03:38 Center in Memphis, Tennessee.
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 And I have recently,
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 as early as January of twenty twenty five,
00:03:44 --> 00:03:46 started at the University of Memphis,
00:03:47 --> 00:03:48 which is developing a
00:03:48 --> 00:03:49 doctoral physical therapy
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 program where I'm having
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 the opportunity to help
00:03:54 --> 00:03:55 with developing the curriculum.
00:03:56 --> 00:03:58 Oh, and I forgot my Ph.D.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 was from Rocky Mountain
00:04:00 --> 00:04:02 University of Health Professions.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 So I've completed that in
00:04:04 --> 00:04:06 twenty twenty and at
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 did a little certification
00:04:08 --> 00:04:09 in health and wellness coaching,
00:04:09 --> 00:04:11 which is kind of
00:04:11 --> 00:04:12 contributed to some of that
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 behavior change and using
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 some of those techniques in
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 teaching and helping to
00:04:18 --> 00:04:19 drive deeper learning.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:21 Yeah, no, that's great.
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 Thank you, Dr. Meekins.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 And, you know,
00:04:25 --> 00:04:26 I love hearing about your
00:04:26 --> 00:04:27 story and your path.
00:04:28 --> 00:04:29 It's rich, it's inspiring.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:32 And I, you know,
00:04:32 --> 00:04:33 we talked about this a little bit,
00:04:33 --> 00:04:35 which is how much we have in common,
00:04:36 --> 00:04:37 thinking about our work in
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 occupational health and at Concentra,
00:04:39 --> 00:04:40 where I spent, you know,
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 a couple years as well in
00:04:42 --> 00:04:43 training through MTI.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:43 It's been
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 something that we have in common.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:47 And obviously, too,
00:04:47 --> 00:04:51 now moving from clinical
00:04:51 --> 00:04:52 practice to academia.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:54 But back to you,
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 from clinical practice to
00:04:56 --> 00:04:58 curriculum development and
00:04:59 --> 00:05:00 some of your background training,
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 like your PhD,
00:05:02 --> 00:05:03 driving some of your
00:05:03 --> 00:05:04 interest in this work,
00:05:05 --> 00:05:07 you've worn and continue to
00:05:07 --> 00:05:08 wear many hats.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 When we first started this discussion,
00:05:11 --> 00:05:13 you mentioned that you have
00:05:13 --> 00:05:14 an interest and a passion
00:05:14 --> 00:05:15 for building or for
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17 bridging the gap between
00:05:17 --> 00:05:19 research and real-world
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 clinical application of OMPT principles.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:25 And more importantly,
00:05:25 --> 00:05:26 the clinical impact of all
00:05:26 --> 00:05:27 of these things put together.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:30 So can you share a little
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 bit about what has inspired
00:05:32 --> 00:05:33 your path to doing this
00:05:34 --> 00:05:35 work a little bit more?
00:05:35 --> 00:05:39 You touched on it in your PhD work,
00:05:39 --> 00:05:40 but can you tell us in detail,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:42 maybe in more details about
00:05:42 --> 00:05:44 what has continued to
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 inspire you into doing this work?
00:05:47 --> 00:05:48 Yes.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:48 Well,
00:05:48 --> 00:05:51 my first inspiration was in PT school,
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 you know, it's knowledge, you know,
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 given to you by fire hose.
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 And so then when I got out
00:05:57 --> 00:05:58 and started practicing, I was like, oh,
00:05:59 --> 00:06:00 I needed to retain that information.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:05 And so, you know, I was really inspired.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07 passionate about helping my
00:06:08 --> 00:06:09 patients get better.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 And so, you know, at that time I was,
00:06:11 --> 00:06:13 you know, a little insecure, you know,
00:06:13 --> 00:06:14 how sometimes we have a
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 little imposter syndrome
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 about my foundation.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:20 And so even though now in
00:06:20 --> 00:06:21 twenty twenty five,
00:06:21 --> 00:06:23 I have this big alphabet behind my name.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:25 It wasn't because I wanted
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 to be super smart and, you know,
00:06:28 --> 00:06:29 stand out from the crowd.
00:06:29 --> 00:06:31 It was I was on a journey and a path to
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 really find out what I need
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35 to know to get my patients better.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:37 That if my patient didn't get better,
00:06:38 --> 00:06:39 it wasn't if they went
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 across the street to the next clinic,
00:06:42 --> 00:06:44 you know, they would get better.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:46 So I wanted to do everything
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 I could to really learn.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 And so that's really what
00:06:50 --> 00:06:51 started my journey.
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 And so as I was going through that journey,
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 I learned all of the
00:06:56 --> 00:06:57 greatest things about
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 evidence-based practice and
00:07:01 --> 00:07:02 what does that look like
00:07:02 --> 00:07:03 actually in the clinic.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 So really developing that toolkit,
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 that teaching someone how
00:07:09 --> 00:07:15 to fish was very impactful for me.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:17 But also what I learned as I
00:07:17 --> 00:07:18 was going through the journey is
00:07:20 --> 00:07:24 A lot of academia enjoy
00:07:25 --> 00:07:30 getting into the details of
00:07:32 --> 00:07:33 the discussion,
00:07:36 --> 00:07:40 rigorous debate of the
00:07:40 --> 00:07:41 evidence that's there
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 versus the therapist
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 Thursday at two thirty
00:07:46 --> 00:07:47 that's trying to help Miss
00:07:47 --> 00:07:49 Jones be able to sit
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 through Sunday service or
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 help Mr. Smith be able to
00:07:57 --> 00:07:59 stay on his job a little bit longer.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:03 aren't necessarily arguing
00:08:03 --> 00:08:04 in those details.
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 So some of my passion was,
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 how can I take this knowledge that I'm
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 and translate it in a way
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 that's helpful for my colleagues,
00:08:14 --> 00:08:16 for students,
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 for patients that's very
00:08:19 --> 00:08:20 real and very helpful.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:22 And I can see it within
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 treatment sessions versus
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 it being so abstract,
00:08:28 --> 00:08:29 which sometimes it can be
00:08:29 --> 00:08:31 when you go to conferences
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 or you're in graduate
00:08:33 --> 00:08:34 school and those types of things.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:36 Yeah, no,
00:08:36 --> 00:08:38 that's an excellent point because
00:08:40 --> 00:08:41 that's the purpose.
00:08:41 --> 00:08:43 That should be the driving factor.
00:08:43 --> 00:08:44 Like you said,
00:08:44 --> 00:08:46 the alphabet soup is at the
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 end of the day,
00:08:48 --> 00:08:49 the letters are meaningless
00:08:49 --> 00:08:50 if you can't impact
00:08:50 --> 00:08:51 patients and outcomes.
00:08:52 --> 00:08:53 And I love that.
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 And I think it's clear to me
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 that your work is centered
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 around both evidence
00:09:01 --> 00:09:02 and empathy,
00:09:03 --> 00:09:04 which brings us to another
00:09:04 --> 00:09:05 area that I think is
00:09:05 --> 00:09:10 central to both entry level practice,
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 but also advanced clinical practice.
00:09:12 --> 00:09:13 And so I want to move us
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 toward the discussion that
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 we're here to kind of dive
00:09:18 --> 00:09:19 into a little bit more,
00:09:19 --> 00:09:20 which is that motor learning.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:24 I think I'm really excited
00:09:24 --> 00:09:25 about this conversation
00:09:25 --> 00:09:26 with you because I think a
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28 lot of clinicians
00:09:29 --> 00:09:29 you know,
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 early clinicians or seasoned clinicians,
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 as evidence continues to change,
00:09:34 --> 00:09:35 we kind of struggle to
00:09:35 --> 00:09:38 bridge that gap as things
00:09:38 --> 00:09:39 continue to evolve.
00:09:40 --> 00:09:42 So, you know,
00:09:42 --> 00:09:43 a lot of what we talk about
00:09:43 --> 00:09:44 in OMPT practice is like
00:09:45 --> 00:09:46 refining movement patterns
00:09:46 --> 00:09:49 and it's psychomotor based, to your point,
00:09:49 --> 00:09:50 and optimizing and
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 facilitating neuromuscular
00:09:53 --> 00:09:54 control and things like that.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 how do you see motor
00:09:57 --> 00:09:58 learning principles kind of
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 shaping the way we approach
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 not just the hands-on care,
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 but how we approach OMPT education?
00:10:05 --> 00:10:06 So whether we're educating
00:10:06 --> 00:10:08 OMPT educators themselves,
00:10:08 --> 00:10:10 or fellows in training, or DPT students,
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 um can you just share some
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 insights on what successful
00:10:16 --> 00:10:17 motor learning looks like
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 for a student it can be you
00:10:21 --> 00:10:22 know students or everyone
00:10:22 --> 00:10:23 you and I are students uh
00:10:24 --> 00:10:25 dpt students fellows
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 educators what does
00:10:27 --> 00:10:28 successful motor learning
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 looks like look like for for us learners
00:10:35 --> 00:10:36 So yes, so one,
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39 most of us are familiar
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40 with the traditional
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 theories of motor learning
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 and the repetition and the
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 time it takes to master a task.
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 So versus just getting the
00:10:52 --> 00:10:54 initial components together.
00:10:54 --> 00:10:57 And then of course the practice,
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 was it the thousand repetitions?
00:11:01 --> 00:11:02 So it goes from
00:11:02 --> 00:11:05 unconsciously incompetent
00:11:05 --> 00:11:06 to consciously incompetent
00:11:07 --> 00:11:09 to eventually that mastery
00:11:09 --> 00:11:11 of unconsciously competent.
00:11:12 --> 00:11:16 And so as a DPT student,
00:11:17 --> 00:11:22 our main goal is for them to be competent,
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 learn the techniques, be safe,
00:11:25 --> 00:11:26 and have a strong
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 foundation upon graduation
00:11:28 --> 00:11:29 that they can build upon.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:33 versus a resident.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:35 Again, now I have that foundation.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:37 I want to focus in a
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 specific area of practice
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 so I can refine and become
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 a little bit more purposeful,
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48 intentional with my examination,
00:11:48 --> 00:11:50 my evaluation.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 and how do I use movement
00:11:53 --> 00:11:58 diagnoses to direct my care
00:11:59 --> 00:12:02 versus a fellow or fellow in training
00:12:03 --> 00:12:06 With that motor control, at that point,
00:12:06 --> 00:12:08 most of them should have
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 that psychomotor skill as a
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 focus of that refinement of
00:12:14 --> 00:12:15 how I want to practice
00:12:16 --> 00:12:18 really delving into the
00:12:18 --> 00:12:19 complex and into the gray.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 in order to develop that mastery.
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 So with motor control,
00:12:29 --> 00:12:31 when I presented in twenty twenty three,
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 we talked a little bit about the optimal
00:12:35 --> 00:12:36 motor learning theory,
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 which is not replacing
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 traditional motor learning theories,
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 but just contributing to that.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 In addition to what we know,
00:12:47 --> 00:12:48 we also need to look at
00:12:49 --> 00:12:53 psychomotor psychosocial contributors.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:58 So the influence of positive expectation.
00:12:59 --> 00:13:03 So I can't speak for you, but for myself,
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 when I was going through my training,
00:13:08 --> 00:13:09 it was, you know,
00:13:09 --> 00:13:11 in the nineties and the thousands where,
00:13:13 --> 00:13:14 you know, it was a little bit more strict,
00:13:14 --> 00:13:15 a little bit more.
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16 You need to do it.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 You know, this is right.
00:13:18 --> 00:13:18 This is not.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:20 And I'm actually someone
00:13:20 --> 00:13:21 that thrives with that
00:13:21 --> 00:13:26 because I say I rise to, you know,
00:13:26 --> 00:13:27 to that level of challenge
00:13:27 --> 00:13:28 and know that I know.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:29 However,
00:13:29 --> 00:13:31 the twenty twenty five student
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 needs a little bit more of
00:13:36 --> 00:13:40 an environment that feels safe.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 And so in the optimal learning therapy,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 having positive expectations,
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 having autonomy to be able
00:13:49 --> 00:13:50 to make choices,
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 having external goals and
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 expectations for motor learning,
00:13:56 --> 00:13:58 they have found that that
00:13:58 --> 00:13:59 increases motor learning as
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 well as deeper learning retention.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 So to bring this back to
00:14:04 --> 00:14:05 learning psychomotor skills
00:14:06 --> 00:14:07 and orthopedic manual physical therapy,
00:14:09 --> 00:14:11 Those days of do it my way.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:13 And that's the only way.
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14 While, yes,
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 you can learn a technique in
00:14:16 --> 00:14:18 order for you to optimize and master it.
00:14:19 --> 00:14:20 We do need to address these
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 psychosocial skills.
00:14:22 --> 00:14:23 These high level of
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 expectations aren't so high
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 that they aren't achievable,
00:14:28 --> 00:14:29 but they're clear,
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 but they're also affirming.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36 So you do and you will be
00:14:36 --> 00:14:39 able to master these things.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40 And so the combination of
00:14:41 --> 00:14:41 using those things,
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 whether it's a DPT student,
00:14:43 --> 00:14:45 whether it's a resident,
00:14:45 --> 00:14:47 whether it's a fellow in training,
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 can be very impactful for
00:14:50 --> 00:14:52 learning the skills or
00:14:52 --> 00:14:54 competencies that we want
00:14:54 --> 00:14:55 them to be able to graduate with.
00:14:56 --> 00:14:58 Yeah, no, I love that.
00:14:58 --> 00:14:59 There's so much there, right?
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02 You talk about purposeful refinement.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:03 I love that.
00:15:03 --> 00:15:05 I think that's a wonderful
00:15:06 --> 00:15:08 definition of OMPT practice
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 and understanding that we are,
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 educating diverse learners now.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:18 We've got, you know, second,
00:15:18 --> 00:15:19 third career individuals
00:15:19 --> 00:15:21 maybe coming into our profession,
00:15:22 --> 00:15:23 non-traditional students,
00:15:23 --> 00:15:24 and then you still have
00:15:24 --> 00:15:25 your traditional students.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 So like, you know,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 motor learning and teaching
00:15:29 --> 00:15:30 motor learning has got to
00:15:30 --> 00:15:32 be adaptable in that realm
00:15:32 --> 00:15:34 because your learners are also diverse.
00:15:34 --> 00:15:36 So I love that, preparing students for
00:15:37 --> 00:15:37 you know,
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 the real world diversity of not
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 just who's in the room, but of practice,
00:15:43 --> 00:15:44 I think is really important.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:48 So thank you for speaking to that.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 I want to I do want to kind
00:15:50 --> 00:15:51 of go back and call out
00:15:51 --> 00:15:52 something you said,
00:15:53 --> 00:15:54 which is really powerful.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 You said address the
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 psychosocial to address the psychomotor.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:01 And I think that's a
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 powerful foundation for motor learning.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:06 And maybe we can even call
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 it contemporary motor learning, you know,
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 because I agree with you motor learning.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:12 I, you know,
00:16:12 --> 00:16:13 I completed fellowship
00:16:13 --> 00:16:14 training not as long ago.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:14 Right.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 It was twenty seventeen.
00:16:16 --> 00:16:17 But even, you know,
00:16:18 --> 00:16:19 a couple of years later, seven,
00:16:19 --> 00:16:20 eight years later.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:22 teaching and learning and
00:16:22 --> 00:16:23 the science and the art of that,
00:16:23 --> 00:16:24 I can see it changing,
00:16:25 --> 00:16:26 especially now that I'm in academia.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:28 So I have a deep
00:16:28 --> 00:16:30 appreciation for what you just said there,
00:16:30 --> 00:16:31 which is you cannot
00:16:31 --> 00:16:32 separate the psychosocial
00:16:32 --> 00:16:33 from the psychomotor.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:36 That is pivotal for what
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37 we're trying to do.
00:16:38 --> 00:16:39 And, you know,
00:16:39 --> 00:16:40 it's just it's clear that
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 when we shift how we teach,
00:16:42 --> 00:16:43 even with our patients,
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 we haven't talked about patients yet.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:47 And patient education,
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 that's probably another podcast.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 But we shift how we teach,
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 and we shift how students
00:16:54 --> 00:16:55 show up to learn.
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 And cultivating that
00:16:57 --> 00:16:58 environment is so important.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 I love leaning into your expertise here.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 In this area, I wanted to ask you,
00:17:07 --> 00:17:09 and I guess this is sort of a shift,
00:17:10 --> 00:17:11 a parallel shift in what
00:17:11 --> 00:17:12 we're talking about.
00:17:14 --> 00:17:15 I want to talk a little bit
00:17:15 --> 00:17:16 about curriculum.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 So I know that you are in
00:17:19 --> 00:17:20 this space right now.
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 You have led efforts to
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 integrate content and
00:17:24 --> 00:17:25 create themes and threads, you know,
00:17:26 --> 00:17:27 like we spoke about Dr.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:29 Sarman's movement impairment systems,
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 evidence informed practice,
00:17:32 --> 00:17:33 professional identity formation.
00:17:35 --> 00:17:37 What is your approach to
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 designing learning
00:17:39 --> 00:17:41 experiences that stick?
00:17:41 --> 00:17:45 And this question comes from
00:17:46 --> 00:17:47 the fact that I think we
00:17:47 --> 00:17:49 all know that when learning is meaningful,
00:17:50 --> 00:17:50 it sticks.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 But let's say you have a
00:17:53 --> 00:17:54 cohort of a hundred
00:17:55 --> 00:17:56 how do you make learning
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 stick for all hundred?
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 I'm selfishly asking for myself, right?
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 But I want to bridge the gap
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 again between like evidence, curriculum,
00:18:05 --> 00:18:08 didactic, clinical practice and impact.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:10 I feel like you have this
00:18:10 --> 00:18:11 broad experience.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:12 You do have this broad
00:18:12 --> 00:18:14 experience across the spectrum.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:16 And I want to know what is
00:18:16 --> 00:18:18 your approach to designing
00:18:18 --> 00:18:19 these types of learning experiences?
00:18:20 --> 00:18:21 So one,
00:18:23 --> 00:18:24 put it on the table, it is hard.
00:18:26 --> 00:18:28 So I'm not saying I have the answer,
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 but I can share with you
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 our thoughts and techniques, as well as,
00:18:33 --> 00:18:34 like you say,
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 what some of the evidence is saying.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:38 So one of the things,
00:18:38 --> 00:18:39 since we were talking about
00:18:39 --> 00:18:40 psychosocial a little bit,
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 I do teach that course.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:44 In the past,
00:18:44 --> 00:18:45 it's been the very first
00:18:46 --> 00:18:47 course in the term.
00:18:47 --> 00:18:48 And I do,
00:18:48 --> 00:18:49 I have students to develop
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 mission statements.
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 And so a couple page paper
00:18:53 --> 00:18:56 on that in regard to what their why is.
00:18:56 --> 00:18:58 And not just why for PT school,
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 but why for your life.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:01 What are your short-term
00:19:01 --> 00:19:02 goals and your long-term
00:19:02 --> 00:19:06 goals for your life?
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 Because that is what's going to help
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 bring you through as you're
00:19:10 --> 00:19:11 going through challenges
00:19:11 --> 00:19:12 and difficulties.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 So when we talk about making
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 learning stick,
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 having that intrinsic
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 motivation is extremely important.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 So they need more than you
00:19:25 --> 00:19:26 learn this because I told
00:19:26 --> 00:19:27 you to learn it or just
00:19:27 --> 00:19:28 take my word for it.
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 So how does this apply to
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 their personal goals as
00:19:33 --> 00:19:34 well as professional goals?
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 How can they see a real life
00:19:37 --> 00:19:38 application with that?
00:19:39 --> 00:19:39 Of course,
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 there's repetition and overlay
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 and sequencing that of
00:19:45 --> 00:19:47 course needs to occur.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 So just because they learned
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 about a principle in one
00:19:53 --> 00:19:54 course doesn't mean that
00:19:54 --> 00:19:56 you don't teach it in other courses.
00:19:56 --> 00:19:57 So they need to hear it.
00:19:58 --> 00:20:00 multiple times in different
00:20:01 --> 00:20:03 perspectives in different
00:20:03 --> 00:20:05 contexts so you know some
00:20:05 --> 00:20:06 curriculums are very
00:20:07 --> 00:20:08 purposeful in integrating
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 content so it's not so
00:20:10 --> 00:20:13 siloed which can be very
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 extremely helpful and
00:20:16 --> 00:20:17 students definitely love
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 cases and scenarios and
00:20:19 --> 00:20:20 authentic so those who have
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 the opportunity to be able
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 to do simulations
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28 that can be very helpful for
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 helping to make things stick.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:34 You know that the APTA and
00:20:34 --> 00:20:39 ACAP and the Education
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 Academy for APTA are
00:20:42 --> 00:20:45 working on competency-based education,
00:20:45 --> 00:20:48 which allows that continuum
00:20:49 --> 00:20:50 of learning where people
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 can kind of learn at their own pace.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 and more individualized,
00:20:56 --> 00:20:58 but every student has to
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 show competency for every
00:21:02 --> 00:21:04 task or entrustable
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 professional activity.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:08 And so I do think,
00:21:08 --> 00:21:09 I think that's challenging,
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 but I do think those are
00:21:12 --> 00:21:15 things that are extremely helpful for
00:21:17 --> 00:21:19 developing skills for competency,
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 in the case of DPT education,
00:21:22 --> 00:21:23 and then mastery for
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 resident and fellowship education.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:31 So really attaching it to their why.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 Positive expectations.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:38 So the first day in my spine class,
00:21:38 --> 00:21:39 I make it very clear,
00:21:39 --> 00:21:40 I do not care if you're
00:21:40 --> 00:21:43 going into pediatrics or aquatics,
00:21:44 --> 00:21:45 or nephrology everyone in
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 here will be demonstrating
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48 thrust and non-thrust
00:21:48 --> 00:21:50 techniques you will do it
00:21:50 --> 00:21:52 um but I also believe
00:21:52 --> 00:21:54 everyone in here has the
00:21:55 --> 00:21:56 tools to be able to do that
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58 I'm going to teach you I'm
00:21:58 --> 00:21:59 going to allow enough
00:21:59 --> 00:22:01 practice time you will be
00:22:01 --> 00:22:02 able to do that so while
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03 the students are like
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 you can also see that wheel
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 turning in regards to, okay,
00:22:10 --> 00:22:11 how do I need to align
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 myself in order to make it happen?
00:22:14 --> 00:22:16 So being very clear with our expectations,
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 allowing that practice time
00:22:20 --> 00:22:23 can be very helpful for
00:22:23 --> 00:22:26 skill mastery and making it stick.
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 I love that so much.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 You said you didn't have the answer,
00:22:31 --> 00:22:31 Dr. Meekins,
00:22:31 --> 00:22:35 but I think you just gave me an answer,
00:22:35 --> 00:22:37 which is when you have a
00:22:38 --> 00:22:39 room of a hundred learners
00:22:40 --> 00:22:43 and you want to
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 Set everyone up to be successful.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:47 How do you do that with a
00:22:47 --> 00:22:48 hundred different ways of
00:22:48 --> 00:22:50 learning is clear expectations.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:51 This is not different from
00:22:51 --> 00:22:52 what we see in the clinic.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:54 It's level setting and saying,
00:22:55 --> 00:22:56 these are the things that
00:22:56 --> 00:23:00 you need to be able to do by this point.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:01 And this is how I'm going to
00:23:01 --> 00:23:02 get you there.
00:23:02 --> 00:23:03 And I love that.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:03 I think
00:23:04 --> 00:23:05 you know sometimes we reach
00:23:06 --> 00:23:06 for things that are more
00:23:06 --> 00:23:08 abstract but at the end of
00:23:08 --> 00:23:09 the day it's just about
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11 giving the learner their
00:23:11 --> 00:23:13 tools and saying this is
00:23:13 --> 00:23:14 what's expected of you and
00:23:14 --> 00:23:15 this is how I'm going to
00:23:15 --> 00:23:16 get you there and just
00:23:16 --> 00:23:17 setting that expectation I
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 love that and you know even
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 in you saying that tying it
00:23:22 --> 00:23:23 back to your why this this
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 this comes back so much um
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 and I it always makes me a
00:23:28 --> 00:23:30 little bit maybe sad is the
00:23:30 --> 00:23:31 word is because as we're
00:23:31 --> 00:23:32 educating you know semester
00:23:33 --> 00:23:34 one dpt students
00:23:35 --> 00:23:38 And we, we hammer on your why, you know,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40 remember your, so I'm in admissions.
00:23:40 --> 00:23:41 I read a lot of like,
00:23:41 --> 00:23:43 why do you want to be a PT
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 statements and reminding
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 students about their why they, you know,
00:23:48 --> 00:23:49 sometimes they don't
00:23:49 --> 00:23:50 connect that to learning.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51 So I love that you're very
00:23:51 --> 00:23:52 intentional about that.
00:23:53 --> 00:23:53 And, um,
00:23:57 --> 00:23:58 I want to say,
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 because that was a focus on the student,
00:24:01 --> 00:24:05 but us as teachers and instructors or CIs,
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 we need to be flexible.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:11 We need to be able to adapt
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 to the variety of learners
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 or the diversity that's in
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 your classroom or in your clinic.
00:24:18 --> 00:24:19 Everyone does not learn the same.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:22 And so sometimes that can be hard.
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 I learned it this way.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:25 So you should be able to
00:24:25 --> 00:24:26 learn it this way.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:28 Or I'm only going to do
00:24:28 --> 00:24:31 traditional lectures or, you know.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:34 So we are doing a disservice as well.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 Instead of we don't want to
00:24:36 --> 00:24:37 just teach content.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 we want to teach the learner
00:24:40 --> 00:24:41 that is in front of us.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:42 And so with that,
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 that does put some onus on
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 us to be adaptable, to listen,
00:24:47 --> 00:24:48 and as well as being in
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 touch with our why.
00:24:50 --> 00:24:52 Why are we doing this?
00:24:52 --> 00:24:56 Why are we in front of these students?
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58 If it's the purpose is to
00:24:59 --> 00:25:01 improve the profession and
00:25:01 --> 00:25:02 to that generation.
00:25:03 --> 00:25:06 then sometimes reflecting on that,
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 like we ask the students to do,
00:25:08 --> 00:25:10 can make it easier for us
00:25:10 --> 00:25:11 to pivot and adjust to the
00:25:11 --> 00:25:12 student that's in front of
00:25:12 --> 00:25:13 us instead of the student
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 that we would like to have.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:16 Sure.
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17 I love that so much.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 And you took the words from me.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 I know when we chatted a
00:25:22 --> 00:25:25 little bit before this session,
00:25:25 --> 00:25:29 we talked about how it's
00:25:29 --> 00:25:30 one thing to teach motor
00:25:30 --> 00:25:32 learning and repetition and
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 those things to students, but
00:25:36 --> 00:25:38 How do we empower educators
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 then to do what you're saying?
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43 You know, pause and reflect.
00:25:43 --> 00:25:45 Are there moments or
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 triggers or times where you would say,
00:25:49 --> 00:25:50 hey, take a step back,
00:25:50 --> 00:25:51 think about what you're doing,
00:25:51 --> 00:25:52 how you're doing it?
00:25:52 --> 00:25:53 Like,
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 what are signs and symptoms for me as
00:25:55 --> 00:25:58 an educator to step back
00:25:58 --> 00:26:00 and get out of my way, you know,
00:26:00 --> 00:26:02 to to teach my students?
00:26:02 --> 00:26:03 I know some of the things we talked about
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 were practical things like
00:26:09 --> 00:26:10 low stakes assessments for
00:26:10 --> 00:26:11 students just to gauge
00:26:11 --> 00:26:12 where they are with the
00:26:12 --> 00:26:14 content we're delivering.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:17 Do you have ideas on other
00:26:17 --> 00:26:18 practical solutions and
00:26:18 --> 00:26:22 resources for entry-level DPT educators,
00:26:22 --> 00:26:23 but also at the level of
00:26:23 --> 00:26:27 the fellow OMPT educators,
00:26:27 --> 00:26:28 what can we do to be better?
00:26:29 --> 00:26:30 How do we become more
00:26:30 --> 00:26:32 reflective educators
00:26:32 --> 00:26:33 thinking about all of these
00:26:33 --> 00:26:34 principles and bridging
00:26:34 --> 00:26:37 that gap between the learner and us,
00:26:37 --> 00:26:37 the instructor?
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 What can you help us, Dr. Meekins?
00:26:43 --> 00:26:43 Again,
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 I'm laughing because if my students
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 were watching this, they would be like,
00:26:48 --> 00:26:50 maybe you should be listening.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:53 We're all guilty and trying to get better,
00:26:53 --> 00:26:54 right?
00:26:54 --> 00:26:54 Right.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:56 Like I said, it's a journey.
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 And as well as once you
00:26:59 --> 00:27:00 think that you think you've got it,
00:27:01 --> 00:27:02 then that's a problem
00:27:02 --> 00:27:03 because you can't learn anything else.
00:27:04 --> 00:27:05 So with that,
00:27:06 --> 00:27:08 what I started with is listening.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:13 So us as educators being
00:27:13 --> 00:27:16 open to being able to hear that feedback.
00:27:16 --> 00:27:17 So sometimes we're like,
00:27:18 --> 00:27:19 especially those that are
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 in entry-level education,
00:27:21 --> 00:27:22 sometimes those course
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 evals can be a little spicy,
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 but you have to learn how
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 to eat the meat and throw away the bones,
00:27:30 --> 00:27:31 as my mom would say.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 So one being open to feedback.
00:27:36 --> 00:27:37 Don't wait to the end.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 So give that feedback and
00:27:39 --> 00:27:41 that response as you are
00:27:41 --> 00:27:42 going throughout the semester,
00:27:42 --> 00:27:44 as you are going throughout
00:27:44 --> 00:27:45 that clinical experience,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:47 as you are going throughout that.
00:27:48 --> 00:27:49 period of fellowship training.
00:27:50 --> 00:27:52 So the minimum you may have set up,
00:27:52 --> 00:27:53 or let's say in a
00:27:53 --> 00:27:55 fellowship training for midterm and final,
00:27:55 --> 00:27:56 but there's nothing
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 stopping you from getting
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 additional feedback each
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 week or as students are learning.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 um during um that time
00:28:05 --> 00:28:06 because it gives you time
00:28:06 --> 00:28:08 and room to be able to
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 pivot so um I do like to
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 use polling software
00:28:12 --> 00:28:13 because early in my
00:28:13 --> 00:28:15 education you know students
00:28:15 --> 00:28:16 wouldn't say anything so
00:28:16 --> 00:28:17 I'm teaching teaching
00:28:17 --> 00:28:18 nobody's asking this is
00:28:18 --> 00:28:20 great and then I would get
00:28:20 --> 00:28:21 the exam I'm like this is
00:28:21 --> 00:28:25 not great yeah so now you
00:28:25 --> 00:28:27 know I know to pause and go
00:28:27 --> 00:28:28 how do you feel about this
00:28:28 --> 00:28:29 Really?
00:28:29 --> 00:28:29 All right.
00:28:29 --> 00:28:30 I'm going to throw up a
00:28:30 --> 00:28:31 couple of questions.
00:28:31 --> 00:28:32 Let's see.
00:28:32 --> 00:28:35 So I'm forcing them to engage and go,
00:28:35 --> 00:28:36 okay.
00:28:36 --> 00:28:37 They don't.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:39 And usually giving them a
00:28:39 --> 00:28:40 little space and room,
00:28:40 --> 00:28:41 as well as we talked a
00:28:41 --> 00:28:42 little bit earlier about
00:28:42 --> 00:28:43 that environment.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:46 for them to ask the question
00:28:46 --> 00:28:47 without feeling it being punitive.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:51 Us making sure that the
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 other students are
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 supporting that learner as they go.
00:28:56 --> 00:28:57 So then that way those
00:28:57 --> 00:28:59 robust discussions can have,
00:28:59 --> 00:29:00 because we don't know
00:29:01 --> 00:29:02 what's wrong unless we
00:29:04 --> 00:29:05 have a space where students
00:29:05 --> 00:29:06 feel free to be able to tell us,
00:29:06 --> 00:29:07 even if the answer is, oh,
00:29:07 --> 00:29:09 I really didn't read that,
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11 or I focused on that wrong.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13 So we have to be able to hear it.
00:29:13 --> 00:29:14 We have to be able to ask
00:29:15 --> 00:29:16 frequently with that.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:19 And then we have to be open to change.
00:29:20 --> 00:29:21 So for myself,
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 I had a colleague to help me
00:29:24 --> 00:29:25 when I first started teaching.
00:29:26 --> 00:29:27 I'm someone that I get the
00:29:27 --> 00:29:28 main points during the lecture.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:30 And then I go home and then
00:29:30 --> 00:29:31 I read through it.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32 I read my book.
00:29:32 --> 00:29:34 And then if I have other questions,
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 I would ask the next class session.
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 But my colleague, she would say, no, Meyer,
00:29:41 --> 00:29:42 I try to learn it as much
00:29:42 --> 00:29:45 detail as I can while I'm in class.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 I don't have to study as much afterwards.
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 And so that was a paradigm
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52 shift for me because I was teaching.
00:29:53 --> 00:29:54 I was hitting high points, but
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 um I was not going in as
00:29:58 --> 00:30:00 much detail because I was
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 assuming that students were
00:30:02 --> 00:30:03 learning the way I learned
00:30:05 --> 00:30:07 once I started um
00:30:07 --> 00:30:09 recognizing there's various
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 ways then I changed the way
00:30:11 --> 00:30:13 that I was um relaying the
00:30:14 --> 00:30:15 content and then I would
00:30:15 --> 00:30:16 check in is this enough do
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 you all need more um so
00:30:19 --> 00:30:21 to get back to your original question,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 how do we help these
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 students to be able to
00:30:26 --> 00:30:27 retain the content?
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 It's staying close to the materials,
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 staying close to the students,
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 regular formative as well
00:30:35 --> 00:30:36 as summative assessment.
00:30:37 --> 00:30:38 And then going along with
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41 this competency-based education trend,
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 making sure these assessments are valid.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 So are the assessments I'm
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 doing actually reflective
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 of their actual performance?
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53 So that way we have truthful
00:30:53 --> 00:30:54 information that we can
00:30:54 --> 00:30:55 make better decisions.
00:30:57 --> 00:30:58 There's everything you're
00:30:58 --> 00:30:59 saying is so rich.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:00 There's so much there.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:02 And I'm kind of
00:31:02 --> 00:31:03 internalizing this as I'm
00:31:03 --> 00:31:04 listening because teaching
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 in a hybrid program that
00:31:06 --> 00:31:07 offers maybe some unique
00:31:07 --> 00:31:08 challenges when we talk
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10 about psychomotor skills,
00:31:11 --> 00:31:13 where we encourage students
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 to practice immediately,
00:31:16 --> 00:31:18 staying close to the material,
00:31:18 --> 00:31:18 like you said,
00:31:19 --> 00:31:20 even though we're not
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21 physically in person until
00:31:21 --> 00:31:23 at midpoint in the semester
00:31:23 --> 00:31:24 where they've got a ton of
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26 information to filter through.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:28 But I love what you're saying there,
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 because if we fall into the
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 trap of maybe teaching the way we learn,
00:31:33 --> 00:31:34 then we're doing a
00:31:34 --> 00:31:35 disservice to our students.
00:31:35 --> 00:31:36 And I think that's something that,
00:31:37 --> 00:31:38 that in itself,
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 if you reflect on that alone,
00:31:41 --> 00:31:42 seems to be the answer to
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 all our problems, right?
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 Like staying close, getting the feedback.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:47 And this is,
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49 I love the parallel between
00:31:49 --> 00:31:52 the educator side and the clinical side.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:54 because a lot of what you
00:31:54 --> 00:31:56 say is in parallel with
00:31:56 --> 00:31:57 what we say to students
00:31:57 --> 00:31:58 when they're in the clinic
00:31:58 --> 00:31:59 or fellows when they're
00:31:59 --> 00:32:00 training which is you've
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02 got to be adaptable you use
00:32:02 --> 00:32:03 that word a couple minutes
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04 ago you have to pivot in
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 the moment and this is
00:32:06 --> 00:32:07 sometimes I think the
00:32:07 --> 00:32:08 educator does think this
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 doesn't necessarily apply
00:32:10 --> 00:32:11 to them um because I've
00:32:11 --> 00:32:12 already course planned
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 through the semester this
00:32:14 --> 00:32:15 is what I'm doing this is
00:32:15 --> 00:32:16 how I'm doing it you got to
00:32:16 --> 00:32:17 pivot in the moment um
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 and failing safely.
00:32:20 --> 00:32:21 You have to create an
00:32:21 --> 00:32:22 environment where students
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 and fellows can fail safely.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:26 I think that's a lot of what
00:32:26 --> 00:32:28 you seem to have just spoken about.
00:32:28 --> 00:32:31 And that's a place where I love.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:34 It connects the psychomotor
00:32:34 --> 00:32:35 and the psychosocial so
00:32:35 --> 00:32:36 beautifully and so
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 seamlessly that I love that
00:32:39 --> 00:32:41 we've come full circle on
00:32:42 --> 00:32:43 separating all of these
00:32:43 --> 00:32:44 components and trying to
00:32:44 --> 00:32:45 bring them together.
00:32:45 --> 00:32:46 So thank you so much for that.
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 I know that you, like I said,
00:32:50 --> 00:32:51 wear many hats.
00:32:51 --> 00:32:55 And just before we close, I was wondering,
00:32:56 --> 00:32:56 in addition to all the
00:32:56 --> 00:32:58 insights and your passion
00:32:58 --> 00:32:59 and your interests and your
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 work that you've shared with us,
00:33:03 --> 00:33:04 what are you excited about
00:33:05 --> 00:33:06 next what's what's next for
00:33:06 --> 00:33:07 you what are you up to
00:33:07 --> 00:33:10 before we wrap up any uh
00:33:10 --> 00:33:11 projects you're excited
00:33:11 --> 00:33:13 about working on or any
00:33:13 --> 00:33:14 upcoming interests I guess
00:33:15 --> 00:33:17 life interests even outside
00:33:17 --> 00:33:18 of ompt here with us well
00:33:18 --> 00:33:21 that's a little busy right
00:33:21 --> 00:33:23 now so like I mentioned I
00:33:23 --> 00:33:25 um am part of a new
00:33:26 --> 00:33:28 a developing doctor of
00:33:28 --> 00:33:29 physical therapy program at
00:33:29 --> 00:33:30 the University of Memphis.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:35 So I am the director of curriculum.
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 So currently working on coordinates.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:42 So really exciting about, you know,
00:33:42 --> 00:33:42 like I said,
00:33:42 --> 00:33:44 I've been blessed to have so
00:33:44 --> 00:33:46 many opportunities along my
00:33:46 --> 00:33:47 career and that knowledge.
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49 And so to be able to take
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 that and be able to share
00:33:51 --> 00:33:53 that with students
00:33:53 --> 00:33:56 as well as the community is
00:33:56 --> 00:33:58 something I'm very passionate about.
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00 And so with that, you know,
00:34:00 --> 00:34:02 threading those things such
00:34:02 --> 00:34:03 as evidence informed
00:34:03 --> 00:34:06 practice throughout the curriculum,
00:34:06 --> 00:34:07 professional formation.
00:34:07 --> 00:34:09 So you may if you've been
00:34:09 --> 00:34:10 attending the conferences
00:34:11 --> 00:34:12 You know,
00:34:12 --> 00:34:15 really helping to be intentional
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 with building the student
00:34:17 --> 00:34:19 in regards to not just
00:34:19 --> 00:34:22 ethics and regulatory issues,
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 but leadership and what
00:34:25 --> 00:34:26 does their professional life look like?
00:34:26 --> 00:34:27 Again,
00:34:27 --> 00:34:30 where do we or they visualize
00:34:30 --> 00:34:32 themselves as they graduate?
00:34:32 --> 00:34:33 For us,
00:34:33 --> 00:34:37 we do have a thread of rural health care.
00:34:38 --> 00:34:39 because our program will be
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43 actually on a satellite campus in Jackson,
00:34:43 --> 00:34:43 Tennessee.
00:34:44 --> 00:34:45 So with that,
00:34:45 --> 00:34:47 we have a strong emphasis on
00:34:48 --> 00:34:50 that autonomy and being
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 able to be that person in
00:34:53 --> 00:34:55 the community to be a
00:34:55 --> 00:34:56 support going for that.
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 And then, of course, movement.
00:34:58 --> 00:35:00 So I can't go past that.
00:35:00 --> 00:35:02 So my training with MTI,
00:35:02 --> 00:35:05 my training at Wash U School of Medicine,
00:35:05 --> 00:35:07 uh in movement system
00:35:07 --> 00:35:08 impairments and so really
00:35:08 --> 00:35:12 using movement to guide our
00:35:12 --> 00:35:13 interventions our
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 assessments our plans and
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 making that the forefront
00:35:17 --> 00:35:19 versus a focus just on
00:35:19 --> 00:35:22 using tools is very
00:35:22 --> 00:35:23 important and then of
00:35:23 --> 00:35:25 course education and
00:35:25 --> 00:35:27 learning so you know at the
00:35:27 --> 00:35:28 heart of it as physical
00:35:28 --> 00:35:29 therapists we teach every
00:35:29 --> 00:35:32 day um and so really giving
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 them the skill set to do that um and
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 um sorry learning uh for
00:35:39 --> 00:35:40 their professional life but
00:35:40 --> 00:35:43 also helping patients in
00:35:43 --> 00:35:44 how they're learning those
00:35:44 --> 00:35:45 techniques as well so very
00:35:46 --> 00:35:47 excited about that I've
00:35:47 --> 00:35:49 been fortunate I'm a co um
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51 I guess it's
00:35:51 --> 00:35:54 co-investigator on a uh one
00:35:54 --> 00:35:55 point six million dollar
00:35:55 --> 00:35:57 grant that we just received in april
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00 where we are developing
00:36:00 --> 00:36:03 simulation and physical
00:36:03 --> 00:36:05 therapy education courses
00:36:06 --> 00:36:08 in area high schools.
00:36:08 --> 00:36:09 So they graduate with their
00:36:10 --> 00:36:13 PT technician certificate
00:36:13 --> 00:36:16 that they can use in area clinics,
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18 which in turn can help them
00:36:18 --> 00:36:21 get hours for physical
00:36:21 --> 00:36:22 therapy if they should
00:36:22 --> 00:36:24 choose to do that as a career.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:27 So that's exciting.
00:36:27 --> 00:36:28 And...
00:36:32 --> 00:36:34 I think that's pretty, oh,
00:36:34 --> 00:36:36 I plan next month to,
00:36:36 --> 00:36:37 one of my bucket lists were
00:36:37 --> 00:36:39 to visit the Redwood Forest.
00:36:40 --> 00:36:42 When I was a child, I wanted to do that.
00:36:42 --> 00:36:44 So I plan on doing that in
00:36:44 --> 00:36:45 the next couple of months.
00:36:45 --> 00:36:46 So that's exciting.
00:36:46 --> 00:36:47 That is exciting.
00:36:47 --> 00:36:48 You'll have to share photos
00:36:49 --> 00:36:51 once you come back from your adventure.
00:36:52 --> 00:36:52 Dr. Meekins,
00:36:52 --> 00:36:54 thank you so much for sharing
00:36:54 --> 00:36:56 your insights with us today
00:36:56 --> 00:36:59 and your passions along this work.
00:37:00 --> 00:37:02 I think it is a really
00:37:02 --> 00:37:03 powerful reminder that
00:37:03 --> 00:37:04 learning is not just about
00:37:04 --> 00:37:06 doing and repeating um it's
00:37:06 --> 00:37:07 truly about like feeling
00:37:07 --> 00:37:09 and evolving and thinking
00:37:09 --> 00:37:11 and growing um and also
00:37:11 --> 00:37:13 adapting and stretching no
00:37:14 --> 00:37:15 no pun no cheesy pun
00:37:15 --> 00:37:16 intended but kind of
00:37:16 --> 00:37:18 stretching ourselves to
00:37:18 --> 00:37:19 maybe spaces where we're a
00:37:19 --> 00:37:21 little bit um uncomfortable
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 as educators and lifelong learners so
00:37:25 --> 00:37:26 To the listeners,
00:37:26 --> 00:37:27 if you're inspired to kind
00:37:27 --> 00:37:28 of rethink how you're
00:37:28 --> 00:37:29 practicing and teaching,
00:37:30 --> 00:37:32 this conversation is a call
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34 to action to look into some
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 of the tools that exist in
00:37:36 --> 00:37:38 this space and dig into Dr.
00:37:38 --> 00:37:39 Meekins' work.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:41 But until next time, keep learning,
00:37:41 --> 00:37:42 keep growing,
00:37:42 --> 00:37:44 keep your hands on and your
00:37:44 --> 00:37:45 minds engaged.
00:37:45 --> 00:37:47 Thanks again, Dr. Meekins.
00:37:47 --> 00:37:47 It was a pleasure.